Going forward with a grievance?

[figureitout23]

Jellybean, please keep in mind, many of us on this board are American and well to be frank our race relations are far from great right now and often times a minority bringing up racism causes defenses to go up, walls to go up and judgements to go flying. I’m not saying that’s happening here by the majority of responders, but keep in mind, it’s not worth it to go back and forth with some who if even were faced with evidence of a racist event would tell you to get over it. They minimize your humanity and it’s simply not worth it to go back and forth with people like that. I think you can decipher who I’m referencing. Just ignore.

 

I’m not going to lie, outside of this situation my impression of you is insecure, unsure, maybe a bit naive with a tendency to go to the extremes with things, that’s the impression I have, obviously I don’t know you, the point of me saying this is to say even feeling the way I do, I find it in ill taste to tell someone what they can and cannot feel offended by when it comes to race, religion and sexual orientation.

 

I would hope you wouldn’t use your race as a tool and you brought this subject up because it truly concerns you and I believe it does, stand by your principles! That doesn’t mean you retaliate, it means you demand more and you walk away with your head held high. As someone else said make sure there’s a paper trail, if for no other reason, there will be a record and that may help the next person she harasses with her inappropriate comments. If all that you’re saying is reality you shouldn’t have to keep damaging your soul and identity ignoring such things in your work place.

 

Onward and upward! Take the job search seriously. Nows not the time to ruminate. Good luck! You’re going to come out of this stronger and wiser!

[Batya33]

Jellybean, please keep in mind, many of us on this board are American and well to be frank our race relations are far from great right now and often times a minority bringing up racism causes defenses to go up, walls to go up and judgements to go flying. I’m not saying that’s happening here by the majority of responders, but keep in mind, it’s not worth it to go back and forth with some who if even were faced with evidence of a racist event would tell you to get over it. They minimize your humanity and it’s simply not worth it to go back and forth with people like that. I think you can decipher who I’m referencing. Just ignore.

 

I’m not going to lie, outside of this situation my impression of you is insecure, unsure, maybe a bit naive with a tendency to go to the extremes with things, that’s the impression I have, obviously I don’t know you, the point of me saying this is to say even feeling the way I do, I find it in ill taste to tell someone what they can and cannot feel offended by when it comes to race, religion and sexual orientation.

 

I would hope you wouldn’t use your race as a tool and you brought this subject up because it truly concerns you and I believe it does, stand by your principles! That doesn’t mean you retaliate, it means you demand more and you walk away with your head held high. As someone else said make sure there’s a paper trail, if for no other reason, there will be a record and that may help the next person she harasses with her inappropriate comments. If all that you’re saying is reality you shouldn’t have to keep damaging your soul and identity ignoring such things in your work place.

 

Onward and upward! Take the job search seriously. Nows not the time to ruminate. Good luck! You’re going to come out of this stronger and wiser!

 

My comments had nothing to do with any of the race-related issues other than I wrote that if there was harassment (and I meant to include any type of discrimination) of course she should report it ASAP!! My comments did have to do with a U.S. perspective to the extent of employment at will (and at least in private companies it's not typical to have garden leave or similar but that's just my personal experience). Her description seemed to have protocols and procedures and job-related protections that are not common in the U.S. --- but I'm not referring to procedures having to do with racial discrimination or harassment in the workplace - I was referring to her initial frustration about the christmas party and similar. I am really sorry you endured inappropriate comments about your race. What figureitout wrote above might be true for some people and might be some peoples' perceptions and reactions and it is not true for me in the least, not even a little bit. It had nothing to do with my reaction or comments or input.

[figureitout23]

Wasn’t referencing you in any way shape or form Bat.

[Batya33]

Wasn’t referencing you in any way shape or form Bat.

 

OK good thank you. I feel very strongly about racial and religious discrimination at the workplace.

[Jellybean9]

Jellybean, please keep in mind, many of us on this board are American and well to be frank our race relations are far from great right now and often times a minority bringing up racism causes defenses to go up, walls to go up and judgements to go flying. I’m not saying that’s happening here by the majority of responders, but keep in mind, it’s not worth it to go back and forth with some who if even were faced with evidence of a racist event would tell you to get over it. They minimize your humanity and it’s simply not worth it to go back and forth with people like that. I think you can decipher who I’m referencing. Just ignore.

 

Thank you so much for this. It was something I was battling with in this thread as well as another thread I had.

 

It's a great learning experience as things are obviously very different in North America than they are here. It was very insightful.

 

I'm not an argumentative person. Probably why I'm in this situation with work. As if I had a bit more of a back bone I don't think I would have let my manager get away with things.

 

So trying to explain things to some people has probably painted me as an argumentative person. Anyone who actual knows me would know that I am complete opposite.

 

I will definitely ignore it in the future.

 

I'm new to this thread world. I am learning how to write and what to say properly on here.

 

I don't mean to generalise to the broader things and relating it to specific situations but that's obviously not coming off well.

 

I’m not going to lie, outside of this situation my impression of you is insecure, unsure, maybe a bit naive with a tendency to go to the extremes with things, that’s the impression I have, obviously I don’t know you, the point of me saying this is to say even feeling the way I do, I find it in ill taste to tell someone what they can and cannot feel offended by when it comes to race, religion and sexual orientation.

 

I'm not surprised you are seeing me as a little insecure. I would be lying if this whole situation hasn't actually has had that effect on me.

 

I think I tried to really explain the situation so others understood. As some people on this forum were claiming some of my managers comments I should have thick skin for. I agree to some extent. Also feel some things she said and did should not be in an office environment. That is just my opinion - so was battling to get that across.

 

I did get really defensive when a poster said "adopt a more mature and professional attitude and learn some interpersonal skills". I shouldn't have let it get to me. But I guess I took it badly due to insecurities.

 

I spent a lot of time bottling this whole up with my manager. It all has knocked my confidence. So behind a screen, I guess it is easier to have a voice and try and stand up for yourself. So that is why I got overboard with some of my replies. It may not have been graceful but it was oddly healing as I would never say things like that IRL.

 

I would hope you wouldn’t use your race as a tool and you brought this subject up because it truly concerns you and I believe it does, stand by your principles! That doesn’t mean you retaliate, it means you demand more and you walk away with your head held high. As someone else said make sure there’s a paper trail, if for no other reason, there will be a record and that may help the next person she harasses with her inappropriate comments. If all that you’re saying is reality you shouldn’t have to keep damaging your soul and identity ignoring such things in your work place.

 

Oh god no! I would never use it as a tool at all.

 

Like I stated in my resignation letter, I was leaving due to poor management. Didn't even mention the odd slur.

 

It was only talking to government agencies and an employment laywer the penny dropped about racial discrimination. Was something I was never going to mention.

 

If I went forward with a grievance I feel I had enough valid points of her poor management outside of her odd racial slur. So would have gone with her invasive management style.

 

I think I've said it before. I do not see myself as a victim as I am not a victim!

 

I've been very fortunate and never had to experience anything like this at work. So it all came as a shock really.

 

By leaving it on record with my company I have nothing to gain from it what so ever. It is more like you and another person said for it to be on "record" in case something like this happens again.

 

No one should have to feel the way I feel in the work place.

 

Doesn't matter if someone has "interpersonal skills" they shouldn't have to hear about "black features", "charcoal sausages" or the "P" word.

 

So for that and that reason alone I'll mention it in my exit interview.

 

I was very confused if I would mention that aspect of it as I am not a trouble maker. I feel as my intentions are pure, then it's not causing a problem. More of a case of preventing one for a future employee.

 

Then I can walk away knowing I did what I believe to be the right thing to me. Whether or not other people agree doesn't really matter.

 

Onward and upward! Take the job search seriously. Nows not the time to ruminate. Good luck! You’re going to come out of this stronger and wiser!

 

Thank you! I've been very proactive with the job search even before handing in my resignation. So looking good. It has slowed down with the run up to Chrismas. So that's fine. Booms again in January. I will be all up in it then.

 

Keeping busy and focused eading research papers for the upcoming PhD. So doing very constructive things with my engery and not wasting it on this issue.

 

They've finally booked my exit interview for next Monday. So at least it would be all over then. I can't wait for that! This all just needs to be over!!!!

 

They also have the head of finance in the interview along with the head of HR. Which is not the norm but it's great I have an impartial party. They have allowed me a companion so I've decided to take in my previous manager. So all in all it should all be fine. No need for me to get anxious over.

 

I will definitely come out of this stronger and wiser :)

[Jellybean9]

My comments had nothing to do with any of the race-related issues other than I wrote that if there was harassment (and I meant to include any type of discrimination) of course she should report it ASAP!! My comments did have to do with a U.S. perspective to the extent of employment at will (and at least in private companies it's not typical to have garden leave or similar but that's just my personal experience). Her description seemed to have protocols and procedures and job-related protections that are not common in the U.S. --- but I'm not referring to procedures having to do with racial discrimination or harassment in the workplace - I was referring to her initial frustration about the christmas party and similar. I am really sorry you endured inappropriate comments about your race. What figureitout wrote above might be true for some people and might be some peoples' perceptions and reactions and it is not true for me in the least, not even a little bit. It had nothing to do with my reaction or comments or input.

 

Thank you for clarifying this.

 

I assumed you meant those big issues with not running to HR in one of your post.

 

May be why I got defensive as I do believe big issues should be addressed. Just from working in HR I would encourage those people experiencing the serious matters to come to HR.

 

As you said things can be dealt with self help like you did with the heater and sexual harrassment issue. Sorry you has to go through sexual harrassment, it's not nice for a work place.

 

But that was due to me saying "any office issue" which I obviously didn't mean the smaller issues. Due to the context of the post I didn't think to specify "only big issues" but I have now learnt to.

 

Just the way you was able to deal with your sexual harrassment in the work place has made me realize how different the US is.

 

You are lucky to have external support. We can only reach out to those external supports once it's been recorded at work.

 

We can't really cut out the middle man which is HR. It's great that you guys can.

 

Like I said I found it fasinating seeing the differences between North America and over here in terms of employment.

 

"I was referring to her initial frustration about the christmas party and similar"

 

With regards to this statement I did show an initial frustration. The only reason I did is I am being treated very differently from another employee that experienced a similar thing to me over the summer.

 

She handed her notice in due to issues with her head of department, her line manager and another manger. She was allowed to work her months' notice, go to the summer party, get her collection and have her last day lunch and drinks. Which is all the norm when leaving a job over here.

 

Essentially I am in a similar situation she was but placed on Garden leave instead. In this country garden leave is meant to be a mutual agreement between employer and employee. So the fact they didn't specify why I was made me feel frustrated.

 

They took that away the run up to leaving a company I love. Which I'm obviously shocked they did despite my loyal service to the company. But it happens and I have got over it.

 

So when they offered me a last day and the Christmas party as a kind gesture after not explaining things. Guess I should have been greatful and gone. But like someone else said and I agree with, it's a little juvenile to go. I even feel the same for my last day as I don't need them.

 

They have treated me differently from other employees that resign. I've accepted that. Have no longer digged into why as it really doesn't matter.

 

Most on this forum may say I'm over reacting. But I've worked in HR. Been involved in employees working their notice and having their exit interview. It's a normal thing to resign and work your notice. Even in HR as my predecessor worked her months' notice.

 

I don't feel I'm being overly dramatic as it's obvious they have dealt with it differently. I have now accepted this.

 

It has helped discussing it on this forum and not acting on things in real life.

 

So thanks all for listening to my ranting.

 

Anyway it's approaching the end. By Monday evening it will all be done. Genuinely can't wait!

[Batya33]

"Just the way you was able to deal with your sexual harrassment in the work place has made me realize how different the US is.

 

You are lucky to have external support. We can only reach out to those external supports once it's been recorded at work.

 

We can't really cut out the middle man which is HR. It's great that you guys can."

 

 

No, that is not how it works here and I never wrote that it did. I don't know how it works generally, I only shared how I responded when it happened to me in my workplace many years ago and I didn't cut anyone out nor did I have any external support. And you wrote "office issue" and I didn't know how you defined that. It seemed far broader than harassment.

 

Glad the end is near for you at that job!

[Jellybean9]

"Just the way you was able to deal with your sexual harrassment in the work place has made me realize how different the US is.

 

You are lucky to have external support. We can only reach out to those external supports once it's been recorded at work.

 

We can't really cut out the middle man which is HR. It's great that you guys can."

 

 

No, that is not how it works here and I never wrote that it did. I don't know how it works generally, I only shared how I responded when it happened to me in my workplace many years ago and I didn't cut anyone out nor did I have any external support. And you wrote "office issue" and I didn't know how you defined that. It seemed far broader than harassment.

 

Glad the end is near for you at that job!

 

"Well - no - not every office issue needs to be addressed with HR or even in any formal way. And it's work - you need to get the requisite support to do your job, be productive and contribute to the bottom line. I was freezing in my office last month so I had someone come to check my heater and resolved it. I had an issue with sexual harassment many years ago, consulted confidentially with some trusted friends and a professional and based on their advice was able to address it with self-help. Why? Because it wasn't worth going to HR and burdening those hard working people if I could address it myself. and yes it was an "issue". HR is not your mom and dad or a 3rd grade teacher, ok? Try self-help first, or try to resolve it by thickening your skin and go to HR if you absolutely cannot be productive in your work and contribute to the bottom line."

 

Sorry I assumed when you stated profesional it was a support outside outside of work.

 

It is a shame you had to go through that on your own. Glad you managed it okay with self help.

 

In my company we have a support phone number for all employees dealing with work stress, harassment, money issues and all sorts. We try to take care of employees mental health and encourage they use the help line we pay for.

 

So someone in your shoes going through what you went through with sexual harrassment would have been encouraged to use that phone line. Also we really encourage employees to talk to us (HR). As beyond the clerical work of employees records and progress reports. We are there to support there well being as it links to work productivity.

 

That's why when I said "office issue". I didn't think of the broader term. As to me the only "office issues" I see from a HR perspective is the lack of support, harrassment and discrimination. That to me is an office issue.

 

The little things like working environment we have a facilities team to deal with that. Minor disputes with peers are resolved by managers.

 

The big stuff only ever makes it to HR.

 

Which is why I agree. HR are not your mum.

 

But I only ever went to HR as I genuinely felt my productivity was being effected as I've never experienced work related anxiety. That to me was a big issues. Like the other office issues I had seen.

 

Thank you for your views. It is great to look at it from all perspectives.

 

Make me incredibly grateful for my employment systems in place in the UK.

 

Thank you. Should be all over soon.

 

I'll keep those of you that are interested posted.

 

:)

[Batya33]

Yes same here - we have lots of support available.