Guaging interest online

[thornz]

Obviously as I wrote no one has to date or look to date, ever. You said you wanted to spend more time with your friends. Now you've expanded on that that it's essential for your mental health. I can relate in the sense that my daily power walk is as essential to my health as is taking my vitamins and supplements. I will not skip it other than once a year and if I'm very sick or in an emergency. I very often have to put in a lot of effort on certain days and times to squeeze it in and I do it. Yes, dating can be stressful and is a part time job at at times. It all comes back to your priorities. You have decided that the only free time you have to socialize in a month is X and that that time has to be with your friends including travel time.

 

It's all a balance. If you truly wanted to find a significant other my guess is you would decide that you would endure the stress and fatigue and find other ways to destress/get more sleep. I do that right now with parenting and work and me-time juggling. I did it with dating and working more than full time.

 

It's a struggle, I get it. I'm just trying to challenge some of your assumptions about what you have time for and what dating requires. I think part of this is more of an excuse, reading between the lines, and it's also fine to say "I could do it but I choose not to because it's not a top priority now" -to me that would help you in the work you say you have to do -the blunt self-honesty. Many people with what you have on your plate find time to date because to them it's a top priority to find a spouse, for example

 

I also think there will always be stresses, lots of work, life stuff where you have to prioritize , balance and be honest about what's truly important. And if in that self-honesty and juggling you determine that you cannot fit in dating/looking to date that's totally valid. I just don't buy from what you wrote that it's all about "can't" and it sounds like there's a part of you that wants an excuse not to put in the time. Which is fine, too but better to be honest about that part -for yourself.

 

Sorry to repeat! What you wrote reminds me -when I had my first catch up dinner with my husband he arrived sweaty from running to the restaurant, I was burnt out from a bad dating experience the night before and the morning of the date (harassing emails), I was exhausted, not interested in dating at all. And sparks flew. Amazing what sparks can do to energy level and priorities. Just sayin'

 

Hi Batya, there’s no need to read between the lines, I listed what consumes my time, money and energy in priority order. As I said when so many things are each competing then something has to give and it won’t be my health.

 

I haven’t said or even implied that I can’t date, I have said that it would not be fair. It would not be fair to the person (or people) I date (from personal experience dating someone with a heavy schedule and low stress tolerance is torment) but more importantly it would not be fair to myself for a variety of reasons. I know my experience of relationships and I find them extremely stressful at times. If your experience of dating has been to be rejuvenated when meeting someone you have chemistry with then that is fantastic for you but it’s not my reality.

 

I am trying to resolve my mental health issues, develop my career and relationships and also save money. Dating at the moment will reduce my ability to do these things effectively, and doing these things reduces my ability to be present in a relationship.

 

You are correct that I could make more time for a relationship, I have done in my last relationship, I made that more of a priority than my studies and saving and I got burned. I considered giving up my studies and I spent my savings contributing to my exes house and using fuel to travel to his. I’m so glad I didn’t give up on my studies as I would certainly regret it now.

 

In around a year I will be settled and my double module will be over. I will hopefully be a lot better at managing my time (something I am working on) and managing my mental health and stress. Makes more sense to me to wait until then for a long term goal than to give up short term goals that I’ve put so much hard work into already.

[Batya33]

Yes, I understand, again, your priorities and your view that dating would be damaging to your health. I rarely found dating rejuvenating -as I've written many times it was a part time job or more. But for my health and well-being I knew that I had to do my utmost to achieve my personal goals of marriage and family. So I prioritized using my energy and doing the work required to do the part time job of dating (yes, sometimes it was fun, sometimes rejuvenating) with all the stresses/aggravation to reach those goals. You've as I've written balanced your priorities differently and you've made assumptions about what dating would be like in your life right now. You've decided that you have to prioritize seeing your friends which - logically- gives you less time to date. You are entitled to those priorities.

 

And yes I would caution you to reevaluate and to be honest with yourself as opposed to repeating to yourself that it would be unfair to others and yourself to date, that you have to see your friends as often as you do, that relationships are extremely stressful - if I were you and if you do want to marry and try for a family someday I'd reevaluate regularly and make sure that what you're telling yourself -and all your assumptions -still ring true. It's really easy to get caught up in a comfort zone and caught up in negative generalizations and assumptions as opposed to challenging them regularly. I had to do that often when I was dating and have to do that often now as a parent and a spouse.

[thornz]

Yes, I understand, again, your priorities and your view that dating would be damaging to your health. I rarely found dating rejuvenating -as I've written many times it was a part time job or more. But for my health and well-being I knew that I had to do my utmost to achieve my personal goals of marriage and family. So I prioritized using my energy and doing the work required to do the part time job of dating (yes, sometimes it was fun, sometimes rejuvenating) with all the stresses/aggravation to reach those goals. You've as I've written balanced your priorities differently and you've made assumptions about what dating would be like in your life right now. You've decided that you have to prioritize seeing your friends which - logically- gives you less time to date. You are entitled to those priorities.

 

And yes I would caution you to reevaluate and to be honest with yourself as opposed to repeating to yourself that it would be unfair to others and yourself to date, that you have to see your friends as often as you do, that relationships are extremely stressful - if I were you and if you do want to marry and try for a family someday I'd reevaluate regularly and make sure that what you're telling yourself -and all your assumptions -still ring true. It's really easy to get caught up in a comfort zone and caught up in negative generalizations and assumptions as opposed to challenging them regularly. I had to do that often when I was dating and have to do that often now as a parent and a spouse.

 

Batya, these are not assumptions, this is my perception based on my experiences. I do challenge my negative assumptions (and perceptions) regularly as I have learnt through my CBT.

 

I challenged my perception of being able to date whilst juggling other things the past few weeks by joining dating sites and trying to arrange dates and finding that just the thought of dating is raising my stress levels.

 

As I have said, when I am more settled I will consider dating (and challenging my perceptions as you put it) again. I see zero benefit in challenging my perceptions more often than circumstances change. When they do I’ll look into dating again.

 

I know myself well enough to know my triggers and what in particular affects my mental health, you do not.

 

I also would not consider seeing my friends at best once a week and at worst every few months often at all.

[katrina1980]

thornz, fwiw I applaud you for knowing yourself and your limitations and doing what's "right" and good for *you* at this point in time.

 

Given your current frame of mind, it would be a waste of time and energy anyway, for both you and the men you meet/date, as your heart just isn't open to letting "any" man in right now; when people feel this way, there will always be something "wrong" - bottom line you're just not emotionally prepared, ready or even interested!

 

Which is OK! I felt that way for a few months last summer.

 

Best to continue sorting out your issues re your ex, and other issues, you will know when you're ready.

 

And when you are, your heart *will* be open which will make it much easier to find a man you truly connect with, instead of looking for reasons/excuses it won't work out, and pushing men away (consciously or subconsciously).

 

Speaking from experience.

[Batya33]

Batya, these are not assumptions, this is my perception based on my experiences. I do challenge my negative assumptions (and perceptions) regularly as I have learnt through my CBT.

 

I challenged my perception of being able to date whilst juggling other things the past few weeks by joining dating sites and trying to arrange dates and finding that just the thought of dating is raising my stress levels.

 

As I have said, when I am more settled I will consider dating (and challenging my perceptions as you put it) again. I see zero benefit in challenging my perceptions more often than circumstances change. When they do I’ll look into dating again.

 

I know myself well enough to know my triggers and what in particular affects my mental health, you do not.

 

I also would not consider seeing my friends at best once a week and at worst every few months often at all.

 

Yes, perceptions work just as well. That is what I meant. You've chosen your priorities based on your perceptions about what you need and your perceptions include that you don't think you can handle the stresses you perceive about dating and potential relationships right now. My challenging my own perceptions helped me reach my life goals (not just relationships) plus help me to do be a better parent on almost a daily basis. Sometimes more. That's my perception and my mindset and I realize yours might be different. I was sharing my opinion. I don't think anyone should date if they don't want to. I was showing you a different way of looking at it and challenging your perceptions. If you don't care to that also has to do with your personal priorities.

 

Sometimes we know ourselves very well. Other times we think we do when what we know is fear, when what we know is wanting an excuse to give up or take the easy way out. I like to challenge myself that way. You don't in this case. It's all good.

[mustlovedogs]

Yes, perceptions work just as well. That is what I meant. You've chosen your priorities based on your perceptions about what you need and your perceptions include that you don't think you can handle the stresses you perceive about dating and potential relationships right now. My challenging my own perceptions helped me reach my life goals (not just relationships) plus help me to do be a better parent on almost a daily basis. Sometimes more. That's my perception and my mindset and I realize yours might be different. I was sharing my opinion. I don't think anyone should date if they don't want to. I was showing you a different way of looking at it and challenging your perceptions. If you don't care to that also has to do with your personal priorities.

 

Sometimes we know ourselves very well. Other times we think we do when what we know is fear, when what we know is wanting an excuse to give up or take the easy way out. I like to challenge myself that way. You don't in this case. It's all good.

 

The way I read your post is that OP is making excuses. I don’t know if that’s what you mean to say, but it reads very much as “you’re taking the easy way out, I challenge myself, but whatever, do what you want”

 

Thornz, I agree with Kat above. It IS possible to not be in a good place to date. I think you’re making a good choice. I also think it IS possible to be too busy to date. I was working 7a-7:30p at one point with frequent weekends and frequent travel. I wouldn’t want to date a guy who can only make an hour every week (because then I would have to bend to his schedule always!) - so why should I expect any different in the reverse?

 

You do you and take the right time.

[Batya33]

Please understand I agree with Katrina and at the same time iscne I think you’ve indicated interest in trying forca fmskly someday be careful about being too complacent based on perceptions. The regret if that kind of wanted time is real. If you’re truly not ready based on honest reason and a positive outlook on relationships then that’s totally different. Maybe I read wrong but that’s not how you described it. It’s all about risk and benefit. And biological clocks are a factor if you want a family . And how stressful or risky something is which in turn might involve for some people challenging their perception. I get that you don’t care to do that. My sense is that if someone knocked your socks off you just happened to meet you would cboose to challenge your perceptions. I could be wrong of course. That’s why i made the suggestion.

[mustlovedogs]

Please understand I agree with Katrina and at the same time iscne I think you’ve indicated interest in trying forca fmskly someday be careful about being too complacent based on perceptions. The regret if that kind of wanted time is real. If you’re truly not ready based on honest reason and a positive outlook on relationships then that’s totally different. Maybe I read wrong but that’s not how you described it. It’s all about risk and benefit. And biological clocks are a factor if you want a family . And how stressful or risky something is which in turn might involve for some people challenging their perception. I get that you don’t care to do that. My sense is that if someone knocked your socks off you just happened to meet you would cboose to challenge your perceptions. I could be wrong of course. That’s why i made the suggestion.

 

I’m not the OP, but you’re right.

 

There’s a difference between meeting someone fantastic and going through the drudgery of online dating. One is more spontaneous, the other is - as you describe - like a job.

[Batya33]

I’m not the OP, but you’re right.

 

There’s a difference between meeting someone fantastic and going through the drudgery of online dating. One is more spontaneous, the other is - as you describe - like a job.

 

Yes certainly the process of meeting someone on line or in any proactive way -singles event, getting set up -is more likely to feel like drudgery and to be more stressful - but then there is the stress of randomly meeting someone but then having little info on whether they're available, etc. and whether/how to get in touch. For the most part I don't think women who want marriage and family can rely entirely on spontaneity. My separate point to the OP is that I sense that if she did meet someone spontaneously her social life priorities might shift. And I'm not sure this is relevant but in my experience even very close friends who see each other regularly change that schedule if they are single and meet someone special, if they have a child, etc. -those major life changes have a way of shifting priorities. I am not a fan of women especially dumping friends for some new guy but at least in my experience it was understood that Saturday night out with the gals might need to become Wednesday night if Mr. Wonderful showed up. But that might not be true for the OP.

[thornz]

thornz, fwiw I applaud you for knowing yourself and your limitations and doing what's "right" and good for *you* at this point in time.

 

Given your current frame of mind, it would be a waste of time and energy anyway, for both you and the men you meet/date, as your heart just isn't open to letting "any" man in right now; when people feel this way, there will always be something "wrong" - bottom line you're just not emotionally prepared, ready or even interested!

 

Which is OK! I felt that way for a few months last summer.

 

Best to continue sorting out your issues re your ex, and other issues, you will know when you're ready.

 

And when you are, your heart *will* be open which will make it much easier to find a man you truly connect with, instead of looking for reasons/excuses it won't work out, and pushing men away (consciously or subconsciously).

 

Speaking from experience.

 

I can totally relate to pushing men away and I can imagine that being the case when I am dating. Like you say just a waste of time if I can’t be present and not at all fair to date someone knowing you don’t have the resources or the inclination to give them a fair chance. Not that I think I would be much of a fun date when I’m feeling so drained and emotional, it’s likely any man worth dating would pick up on these things and leave me in the dust 🤣

[thornz]

The way I read your post is that OP is making excuses. I don’t know if that’s what you mean to say, but it reads very much as “you’re taking the easy way out, I challenge myself, but whatever, do what you want”

 

Thornz, I agree with Kat above. It IS possible to not be in a good place to date. I think you’re making a good choice. I also think it IS possible to be too busy to date. I was working 7a-7:30p at one point with frequent weekends and frequent travel. I wouldn’t want to date a guy who can only make an hour every week (because then I would have to bend to his schedule always!) - so why should I expect any different in the reverse?

 

You do you and take the right time.

 

MLD that is how I took the post too, I’m finding Batya’s responses increasingly condescending.

 

That is my view on my situation also, I have dated a man who didn’t have time to see me regularly and I resented him a great deal for this. I told him on many occasions he had no business dating if his life was so busy and in the end I left him (not only for that reason but it was a large part of it).

 

Why should I expect someone to tolerate not seeing me regularly when I wouldn’t put up with it myself?

[thornz]

Yes certainly the process of meeting someone on line or in any proactive way -singles event, getting set up -is more likely to feel like drudgery and to be more stressful - but then there is the stress of randomly meeting someone but then having little info on whether they're available, etc. and whether/how to get in touch. For the most part I don't think women who want marriage and family can rely entirely on spontaneity. My separate point to the OP is that I sense that if she did meet someone spontaneously her social life priorities might shift. And I'm not sure this is relevant but in my experience even very close friends who see each other regularly change that schedule if they are single and meet someone special, if they have a child, etc. -those major life changes have a way of shifting priorities. I am not a fan of women especially dumping friends for some new guy but at least in my experience it was understood that Saturday night out with the gals might need to become Wednesday night if Mr. Wonderful showed up. But that might not be true for the OP.

 

If this subject is a trigger for you then own it, I really can’t fathom why else you would choose to invest so much energy into trying to prove to a stranger that they’re not trying hard enough if they want to settle down, based on nothing but your personal experience and an extremely narrow window into their life.

 

Might I suggest you take your own advice and challenge your perspective, that because something is possible and right for you that it applies to all manner of people with their varying experiences and situations.

 

Until then we can agree to disagree and I’ll say no further on the subject as I’m finding your responses to be bordering on rudeness.

[Batya33]

Sorry I did not mean it that way in the least. I don’t believe my way is the right way and that was not my intention. I am sorry if I overstepped. Enjoy this time and may it be fun and insightful as well.

[Batya33]

The way I read your post is that OP is making excuses. I don’t know if that’s what you mean to say, but it reads very much as “you’re taking the easy way out, I challenge myself, but whatever, do what you want”

 

Thornz, I agree with Kat above. It IS possible to not be in a good place to date. I think you’re making a good choice. I also think it IS possible to be too busy to date. I was working 7a-7:30p at one point with frequent weekends and frequent travel. I wouldn’t want to date a guy who can only make an hour every week (because then I would have to bend to his schedule always!) - so why should I expect any different in the reverse?

 

You do you and take the right time.

 

Yes I agree and I overstepped. Sorry.

[thornz]

Sorry I did not mean it that way in the least. I don’t believe my way is the right way and that was not my intention. I am sorry if I overstepped. Enjoy this time and may it be fun and insightful as well.

 

Not to worry Batya, I know you meant no harm and that from your previous posts marriage and children was an all consuming goal that you invested a great deal in, so naturally it is something you will be passionate about.

 

I am aware that if I wish to get married and have a family biologically, the time frame may be a barrier, however I see my mental health and inability to maintain emotional stability a bigger barrier. Thus far I have struggled to achieve a relationship status that is healthy due to my issues. I am firm believer that procreation is not a right but a massive commitment (as is marriage) that must be carefully considered and if you are not in a place to raise a child (or marry) you should not do so. By dating at present I am diverting energy from improving my health and financial situation, which in the long run might mean I am unable to make a success of being a partner or mother.

 

My own parents mental health issues left them unable to raise myself and my brother successfully and we in turn have our own mental health issues as a result. We were raised in care and I am breaking the chain. What I am passionate about is resolving my mental health issues, creating stability for myself and in turn being able to offer that to children who are in the care system. If I can’t get my mental health well managed then this is off the cards for me. This is a very big deal for me, but my strong beliefs mean I would always choose not to foster or adopt if I didn’t feel I was going to be great at it. It would be heartbreaking, but it would be the right thing to do.

 

My personal goal is to marry and become a foster carer with a view to adopting an older sibling group (this increases the time frame for having children significantly for me) and although my preference and wish is to do this with a husband, if I have to miss out on marriage to ensure my health is good enough to endure the rigours of child rearing, I am fully prepared to do so. Indeed I am aware that my desire to raise older children that are not biological, might in itself put me out of the runnings for a husband as it is a big ask of a partner. In that instance I need to be financially able to do this with little financial assistance, that is where my desire to do well in my career applies. Of course I also desire to be stable financially and mentally for my own benefit also, that is something that I had to work towards, at one stage I was doing these only to be able to foster, but as my self esteem improved I realised my health is important for me!

 

I hope this little insight gives you some understanding of my motivations and why my health and financial status are so important to me. It might appear to you that this is an avoidance of the end goal, but to me, this is important groundwork which will have significant bearing upon my ability to reach the end goal.

[Batya33]

Thanks for sharing so candidly -a level which I don't even feel I was entitled to. Thank you and just so you know I always agreed with everything you wrote especially about having a child and the commitment. FWIW had I ever done the single mother by choice it would only have been through adoption given my moral/ethical standpoint on the situation. My father had a mental illness for most of his life and my mother was his hero. He would have been dead -at his own hand -without her. And of course there was so much more stigma around it way back when.

 

And sure others might balance it differently or not see the sort of pot of resources you do have in the same way or to be divided up so to speak in the same way. And i am sure your past factors in to how you personally view your own strengths/weaknesses/priorities. But you're comfortable with your approach and reasoning and that's all that matters. And yes of course the biological clock not being a factor is huge for women who don't need or want to worry about that for any reason.

[thornz]

Thanks for sharing so candidly -a level which I don't even feel I was entitled to. Thank you and just so you know I always agreed with everything you wrote especially about having a child and the commitment. FWIW had I ever done the single mother by choice it would only have been through adoption given my moral/ethical standpoint on the situation. My father had a mental illness for most of his life and my mother was his hero. He would have been dead -at his own hand -without her. And of course there was so much more stigma around it way back when.

 

And sure others might balance it differently or not see the sort of pot of resources you do have in the same way or to be divided up so to speak in the same way. And i am sure your past factors in to how you personally view your own strengths/weaknesses/priorities. But you're comfortable with your approach and reasoning and that's all that matters. And yes of course the biological clock not being a factor is huge for women who don't need or want to worry about that for any reason.

 

I would say the biological factor has a massive bearing on my choices. At 31 I imagine I would consider that finding a husband is a pressing concern and drop my studies to create a window with which to focus more intently on my mental health, free up funds with which to buy a house in the area I wish to settle and find a husband. My study costs are equivalent of a deposit! Any deficit due to being conservative in pursuit of my career might be offset by an additional income.

 

However as my ethical and personal stance dictates I adopt older children, that affords me a great deal of time to concentrate on what I believe will improve my ability to do so. I may reach my 40’s before I adopt, but as the children will be older it will not be so strange (were they biologically mine I could have realistically bore them myself when younger). I am considering that my mental health needs to be tip top to be able to do this (the children will have their own issues that I need not exacerbate with my presently stringy mental health) but I also might be unfortunate in not finding a partner who shares my desire to adopt older children. In which instance I need to be financially secure to make this work on my own.

 

It is something I have given a great deal of thought to over the years (adoption has been a goal of mine since childhood, literally since I remember about age 6+) and it is one of the few unfaltering long term goals I have not reconsidered (or at least evolved). I regularly reconsider how my path in life is affecting my goals and the consequences any change in path might have on each.

 

It is a balancing act, that’s for sure, but I do the best I can with my own limitations. Working towards lessening my limitations will hopefully hasten my progress in all areas of life. Phew!

[Batya33]

So for me, personally my career goals which I basically solidified at age 15 were just as important as my marriage goals and there were men who would not tolerate my study and later intense work schedule. It was a good screening tool - those who respected my choices and goals were very accommodating. Well, "just as important" -I never felt I had to choose between my studies/career and a man who was worth it. I do remember a classmate I interned with during grad school bemoaning that we were pricing ourselves out of the husband market, meaning that it would be a turn off to men (this was the early 90s so who knows) who wouldn't see us as feminine/traditional enough. I was good at taking off my go for it at all times career hat when I dated (without being submissive either!). But when it came to a choice of continuing my career vs. being full time with my child it really was no contest - but that was also because I came to motherhood so late at 42, had already worked almost 20 years in various capacities and saved up enough to be home even if my husband couldn't have been the sole breadwinner. I may have made a different choice had it been the beginning of my career.

 

Very interesting path and journey you have! I kind of miss school actually.

[thornz]

So for me, personally my career goals which I basically solidified at age 15 were just as important as my marriage goals and there were men who would not tolerate my study and later intense work schedule. It was a good screening tool - those who respected my choices and goals were very accommodating. Well, "just as important" -I never felt I had to choose between my studies/career and a man who was worth it. I do remember a classmate I interned with during grad school bemoaning that we were pricing ourselves out of the husband market, meaning that it would be a turn off to men (this was the early 90s so who knows) who wouldn't see us as feminine/traditional enough. I was good at taking off my go for it at all times career hat when I dated (without being submissive either!). But when it came to a choice of continuing my career vs. being full time with my child it really was no contest - but that was also because I came to motherhood so late at 42, had already worked almost 20 years in various capacities and saved up enough to be home even if my husband couldn't have been the sole breadwinner. I may have made a different choice had it been the beginning of my career.

 

Very interesting path and journey you have! I kind of miss school actually.

 

Yes a man who tried to curtail my career goals would turn me off too. I wouldn’t say that my career goals would be less important if I wanted biological children, but I would consider making a small fortune working away from home for long periods, as too big a sacrifice.

 

My current earning potential is 1.5 x average wage for the uk, which at 31 isn’t too shabby, so that would certainly be decent with a second income to support our children.

 

The reason I haven’t finished uni yet is unfortunately due to my mental health, more than being in the infancy of my career. It has been 10 years since I started and if I don’t finish within 2 years I will have to start my course from the beginning.

 

I would say my mental health and career goals are the most important to me, as they are pre-requisites to adoption. Marriage is less important to me than adopting at this point but perhaps when I complete my degree and am more settled this will change?

 

I think I would miss school too if I didn’t study regularly. I was shown a site called edX you might like to visit that has free short courses in all manner of subjects by various universities. Also coursera has free studies.

[Batya33]

Is preference still given to a two-parent home even for adopting an older child?

[thornz]

Is preference still given to a two-parent home even for adopting an older child?

 

I don’t think the adoption and fostering processes are subject to such archaic guidelines anymore, you can be single, gay, young (I think 21 is the lower limit for fostering), old (ish), homeowner, renter, full time employee, self employed, university educated or not have even finished high school. If I remember correctly even when I was in care as a 4/5 year old my foster carers were single. I think only 1 out of the 4 placements I remember was a couple and they were of pension age I should think, at the very least late 50s.

 

My last carer when I was 15 was a single woman who lived in a council house and was otherwise unemployed. Though I’m not sure if unemployment was a requirement due to my age and the fact she had 2 of her own children still living with her.

 

The guidelines also vary to a degree between councils and from private agencies and councils.

 

How things have turned around, my biological mothers first child was taken away as a baby for adoption because she’s was a young single woman out of wedlock. They would likely have considered her as an adoptive parent now.

[FirstDates]

I stop talking to men who don’t reciprocate conversation. If they don’t ask questions I view them as selfish - right or wrong.

 

Yep, selfish or severely lacking social skills!