Only a Rant

[Sheyda]

First of all, I apologise if I offend anybody, but this particular section of the forum has just made me so angry and upset I have to rant about it. Please don't take this personally as it is not aimed at any one person; there are many comments on here from many different people that have offended me. I apologise if it seems like I am picking on anyone.

 

So, what's the problem here? I think there are lots of things wrong with this section of the forum. These are what I think are the main issues that should probably be sorted out:

 

1) Respect.

2) Acceptance and understanding of cultural differences (or at least taking them into consideration).

 

First there is the issue of respect for other forumites and the use of constructive criticism in responding to their posts. This is a forum where we are meant to help each other and give advice; looking at the rules of the forum, I am surprised that some people haven't been banned for the comments they've made as I found them to be extremely inappropriate.

 

Many comments I have seen from other users are far from helpful and are simply prejudiced and discriminatory; people are labelled as paedophiles/sex-crazed maniacs lusting for younger people or as immature idiots who can't think for themselves and have fallen into a trap. It is unfair to judge people in this way as you don't even know them and these are silly stereotyped assumptions.

 

You cannot generalise everyone in a certain age group; not all teenagers are crazy about sex, clubbing and getting drunk every night and not every middle-aged man who is attracted to a younger woman is going to be a rapist with a mental disorder or a filthy old man. Some teenagers are more mature, sensible and smarter than others and some older people are immature and don't know what they're doing in life. It is ignorant to generalise like that.

 

Now, it is perfectly fine if you think a young woman has made a mistake getting involved with an older man and that he might be dangerous; it's okay to say "I don't think you should trust this guy; it seems as though he could be using you", but calling people paedophiles and imbeciles is not exactly helping anyone. I respect people's opinions and if you think something's wrong, then okay, that's all right; I'm not going to try and change your mind, but if all you have are responses that might as well be insults, you can keep your nasty opinions to yourself! You are supposed to be giving people helpful advice, not insulting them, the people they care about and knocking down their self-esteem. If you think the relationship is wrong and they might be in danger, warning them is fine, but calling someone they're currently infatuated with a paedophile/stupid kid is only going to make them angry and upset. And if they are hurt by your words, they're most likely going to ignore the rest of what you have to say, even if it's fantastic advice. You can still warn them and say what you think, but there is a much more respectful, constructive and polite way of doing it!

 

Another big problem in this forum is the acceptance and understanding of cultural differences. Another forumite mentioned that it could be more of a cultural problem than an age problem as most of the users discussing their successful age gap relationships or asking for help with one are from the UK and British people may mature quicker than American people (I can certainly see that in some very immature responses from people older than myself!). I think that this may be true as British people finish school at 16, and they can have sex, drive a car, get married, live in their own place and start a career, whereas in the US, all of this happens at 18 i.e. British 16-year-olds are pretty much the equivalent of American 18-year-olds in terms of what stage of life they are at. If people are expected to be an adult at a certain age, they usually do mature by that time (I've found that to be true) and I have found that in countries where people are married at a very young age, they do indeed grow to adults much faster than those from the Western world. I even know someone who had their own business at the age of 16!

 

Now, some of the comments made due to someone being under 18 in an age gap relationship came accross as racist to me. Saying that people are paedophiles, that they're wrong and their relationship is disgusting because America's rules say so and that those other countries can't be normal because of their age of consent... Some have even insinuated that every country with a legal age of consent that is under 18 is full of paedophiles! Maybe 18 is the legal age of consent in America, but once again, the rules clearly state that you are not meant to impose your morals, beliefs, etc. onto other forumites. I feel that this includes not judging other people by your country's rules. Why bother saying "in America your relationship is wrong; stop it!" if they're not even living in America? If they're considered a paedophile in your country it doesn't make them that in their country and you can't just say that their relationship is wrong because of that; it does not count in their country, anyway. Being an American citizen isn't a good enough excuse to say someone's relationship is wrong, either. I have found plenty of other forums where the Americans are completely accepting and helpful to Britons in relationships with people under 18. I think it is ignorant of other cultures (or in other terms, racist) to insult and judge them based on your country's rules instead of giving advice. If your culture is too ingrained within your head to be considerate of other people's cultures, you can't be open-minded about it and you're just going to judge and criticise, it is best you don't respond at all. Once again, I respect people's opinions, but if all you have are responses that might as well be insults, you can keep your nasty opinions to yourself!

 

Due to these two issues, I've found this forum to be unfriendly and unhelpful to me and I have gone elsewhere to get advice on age gap relationships in particular. Some of the people posting in this forum are so against age gap relationships; they shouldn't even be posting in here because they're not helping anyone. This forum needs a big change; people need to stop being so disrespectful, prejudiced, discriminatory, insulting, impolite, immature, narrow-minded, ignorant and imposing.

 

There are many other factors that affect a relationship and age is just a very small part of that; why do some people have to make such a big deal out of it? E.g. you could have two 20-year-olds; one has goals in life and is interested in education so they are in university. The other 20-year-old is more into partying, drinking and doing drugs. They wouldn't get on very well, would they? Now, if a 16-year-old who is planning on heading to university and is also very goal-oriented met the first 20-year-old, they would get along very well. Common beliefs, personalities, goals and interests are far more important than age.

 

Once again I am sorry if I offended anyone and please don't take it personally and start arguing with me; this is only a rant. I have just picked up a very hostile vibe in general from this particular part of the forum and it has upset and angered me.

 

P.S. If anybody else has felt the same way about this forum and needs help with anything, feel free to PM me.

[Amasa]

I just read your rant, and and I was thinking while I read it, that for someone who is talking alot about tolerence, your doing a lot of America bashing. So just so your better informed for your next rant, the legal age to consent to sex is not 18 in all states. In Florida, it's 16, for example.

 

Look at your analogy with the 20 y/o and the 16 y/o. The problem with that is, that the 16 y/o 's brain isn't even fully developed yet. The reasoning part of there brain hasn't developed yet. And would it be ok in your mind if the 16 y/o wanted to date a 12 y/o????

Of course not, because a 12y/o and a 16 y/o are living in different words, even if it is the most mature 12 y/o in the world. And what is wrong with the sixteen y/o old if the only men they can get are 12?????

 

The gap goes away the older you get, and the more possible it becomes for them to have the same interest and goals. For example a 28 y/o and a 40 y/o. But a teenager dating an adult, is usually just based on sex, and it's the teenager that is getting taken advantage of.

[Sheyda]

I didn't see anywhere where I bashed America, could you please quote the part where I said something nasty about just Americans? I'm sorry if I sounded like I did have a go at American people as a whole because it definitely wasn't intended. The only reason it probably did sound that way was because one of the problems was cultural difference between America and other countries. I was talking about Americans who have these narrow-minded views I described, not all Americans and I did say I have found other forums where Americans have been very kind and helpful and accepting of an age gap relationship involving someone under 18.

 

I do know that there are states that have 16 as the legal age of consent, but in general it is 18.

 

You can't compare a 16-year-old dating a 20-year-old to a 16-year-old dating a 12-year-old; it is a completely different thing because a 12-year-old is still a child and most of them don't even want to be in relationships and think people of the opposite sex are "icky". True, a 16-year-old's brain isn't fully developed yet, but neither is a 20-year-old's. People aren't fully mature until they are about 22. A 16-year-old and a 20-year-old are a lot closer in terms of development than a 16-year-old and a 12-year-old. Like you said, the gap isn't so much of an issue as you get older.

 

Teenagers dating adults is not always about sex; that is exactly the kind of stereotypical judgment I was talking about in my post that is upsetting lots of people. It's true that this does happen, but plenty of them are genuine relationships where no one is being taken advantage of.

 

I guess that is another thing; America has placed a big taboo on age gap relationships and I have heard there are some very biased TV shows about it that always go on about how wrong age gap relationships are; I guess the media has influenced people's opinions a lot that they can't comprehend these kind of relationships being about anything more than sex.

[Amasa]

"You can't compare a 16-year-old dating a 20-year-old to a 16-year-old dating a 12-year-old; it is a completely different thing because a 12-year-old is still a child and most of them don't even want to be in relationships ."

 

I think that that is exactly the same way that people think of a 40 y/o and a 16 y/o dating. The 16 y/o is a child, who shouldn't be interested in a realtionship yet. And what is wrong with the forty year old that he can't find someone who is his own age.

 

And your right maybe if the 16 y/o just finished school then the age difference for them dating a 20 y/o isn't as bad. But it looks to us (americans) the same as it would for you to be talking about an 18 y/o and a 14 y/o. Do you think that is an acceptable age gap relationship?

The post right below yours is a 16 y/o girl who wants to date a 41 y/o man. Do you think that that is acceptable ?? In any country???

[I_love_rain_hugs_and_you]

I go this forum (age gap relationships) all the time and I usually find that it is tolerant. Everyone has a right to express thier views, no matter what they are. I think you are just making a big fuss...95% of people are very tolerant and respectful. There is nothing wrong with the "age gap relationships" forum.

[Sheyda]

Amasa - I never said anything about which age gaps are acceptable, I was just saying that some people in this forum are not being respectful or considerate of cultural differences when they are responding. I think that the one with the 16-year-old and 40-year-old is wrong because he's already married and has children; why would he leave all of this for a 16-year-old? I have heard of relationships with the same age gap working before though, but this one doesn't sound like it is genuine.

 

I love rain hugs and you - Are you saying people have the right to call other people paedophiles and immature idiots? Sure, they have the right to express their views, but there is a much more polite way of doing it than saying "I think this guy you are in love with is a paedophile". I feel that accusing people in age gap relationships like this is just as bad as discriminating against people in interracial relationships. Would you be okay with someone saying "Oh you shouldn't date so-and-so because they are a ch*nk"; it might not be exactly the same, but I think it is just as rude and ignorant.

 

I know that there are plenty of people in here who are tolerant, but there are some people who are incredibly intolerant. They don't post as much, but every now and again there are several threads where a bunch of people make some nasty comments.

[I_love_rain_hugs_and_you]

What is a "ch*nk"????????

[Sheyda]

It's a racist term for a Chinese person.

[Amasa]

I think that the one with the 16-year-old and 40-year-old is wrong because he's already married and has children; why would he leave all of this for a 16-year-old?"

 

The fact that he is married, is the least of the problems with that relationship.

He is in a position of authority over her, and she is still young enough that she could think she is supposed to please adults, exspecially ones in a position of authority. She could just not have a father in her life and is looking for a father figure in him. Which by the way if that is the situation it will only get worse when he finally rejects her.

She is basicaly a toy to him, and she is thinking of this as a serious relationship. what happens when she gets pregnant?? What happens when all her friends at school find out she's sleeping with a teacher??? Do you really think she's gonna have many friends after that? How is she gonna feel then? How is she gonna feel when she finds out that he has been sleeping with his students for years?

And sadly she is young enough where she has probably thought of none of these consequences, all she sees is them running off and living happily ever after.

 

Don't you think it would be better to be a little harsh with that girl to make her see what is wrong with that relationship, instead of just saying maybe it's not the best thing??

 

If you saw someone running off a cliff, wouldn't you say anything to get there attention and make them stop??? Even if it was a little rude.

Do you think that we should all sit by and have tolerence for something that is clearly going to get this girl hurt, because she thinks it is a good idea at the moment?

I think that the people here all have good intentions and are trying to help. Maybe you should be a little more considerate about there ways of going about it.

 

 

There may be some cultural discrepancies between countries, but i don't think that any country would embrace this relationship.

[Sheyda]

Yes, I know that that is also a problem, but that is not what I am talking about am I? I am not focusing this entire post on this one topic about a schoolgirl and a teacher. I am talking about relationships that are acceptable and safe, but people are saying they're not because of cultural differences and then accusing people of nasty things as a way of "helping".

 

Either way, yes she could be in danger, but how is insulting her going to help? If you anger and upset someone, how can you expect them to listen to you? It is still fine to say that it is wrong, but one of the points of my post was to show that there are nicer ways of putting it than saying "You're so dumb you have fallen right into the trap of a paedophile". How do you expect her to take you seriously if you put it that way; it doesn't sound as though they're trying to help at all. So why listen? She will most likely think "Well, this place is full of nasty people" and give up on receiving advice and carry on with this relationship that could be potentially dangerous. That's why it is important to be polite and respectful even if you think there's a high chance that this person is in danger. I never said to sit by and accept all age gap relationships when the person is in danger, if you read everything I said you'll see that I mentioned it was okay to warn people, but insults aren't going to help.

 

As for the cliff analogy; how can you justify the rudeness? Is it even appropriate when a simple "Stop" or "look out" will do instead of screaming a bunch of insults?

 

Going back to age relationships in general, I don't think I can be considerate of their ways of going about it. According to them half of my friends are most definitely paedophiles and rapists.

 

It is true that no countries would be likely to accept the 16-year-old and 40-year-old's relationship, but I wasn't talking about this one post in particular when I made this thread.

[Amasa]

I am talking about relationships that are acceptable and safe, but people are saying they're not because of cultural differences and then accusing people of nasty things as a way of "helping".

 

Who are you to judge what is acceptable and safe ? And who are you to judge why other people think a relationship is unsafe or unacceptable?

 

As for the cliff analogy; how can you justify the rudeness? Is it even appropriate when a simple "Stop" or "look out" will do instead of screaming a bunch of insults?

 

And what if they don't hear you? or don't listen? Would you just say screw it, I said stop? I wouldn't want to offend them by standing here screaming.

Does that make sense to you?

 

"You're so dumb you have fallen right into the trap of a paedophile". How do you expect her to take you seriously if you put it that way; it doesn't sound as though they're trying to help at all.

 

I haven't seen any one call someone dumb anywhere in this whole forum and I've been on here a while. Did someone say that, or are you dramatizing a point?

and as far as the latter half of that.

you have fallen right into the trap of a paedophile".

 

That is a very clear straight forward warning. And I would applaud the person who said it for not sugar coating such a serious situation.

 

Going back to age relationships in general, I don't think I can be considerate of their ways of going about it. According to them half of my friends are most definitely paedophiles and rapists.

 

IF your hanging out with a bunch of forty year old men that date 16 y/o girls then you are hanging out with peadophiles and rapist. Maybe you are upset because you just don't want to hear what could be wrong with what you are doing?

[avman]

I've been watching this thread with interest and want to point out a few things:

 

Don't you think it would be better to be a little harsh with that girl to make her see what is wrong with that relationship, instead of just saying maybe it's not the best thing

On eNotalone we ask members to respect each other, even if they disagree. So with that said, no it is not ok to be harsh with her just because you don't like her actions. You can tell her you disagree, you can be direct, but you cannot insult.

 

There may be some cultural discrepancies between countries, but i don't think that any country would embrace this relationship

That is an opinion - not a fact.

 

I am talking about relationships that are acceptable and safe

This is also an opinion and not a fact.

 

And who are you to judge why other people think a relationship is unsafe or unacceptable?

This is the start of what I'd consider a flame war. Please stop these kinds of characterizations.

 

Whatever your opinion on the subjects, we insist you are respectful of others. Otherwise you risk losing your posts and possibly being suspended from the forum.

[Sheyda]

Whatever your opinion on the subjects, we insist you are respectful of others. Otherwise you risk losing your posts and possibly being suspended from the forum.

 

^ That is exactly my point, right there. Calling people paedophiles and such is not being very respectful.

 

Who are you to judge what is acceptable and safe ? And who are you to judge why other people think a relationship is unsafe or unacceptable?

 

I think most people would agree that if no-one is being manipulated or used that it would be safe. As for acceptable, that depends on people's opinions, but if they are in a safe relationship and they are in love with each other you can't dismiss it as something disgusting and wrong, no matter how much you disagree with it.

 

And what if they don't hear you? or don't listen? Would you just say screw it, I said stop? I wouldn't want to offend them by standing here screaming.

Does that make sense to you?

 

Being rude doesn't make it any easier to hear you. And I assumed I would be shouting in the first place because they're running towards a cliff. I don't think that counts as rude; we were talking about insulting someone when they are in danger. Shouting so they can hear you doesn't count as something insulting to me.

 

I haven't seen any one call someone dumb anywhere in this whole forum and I've been on here a while. Did someone say that, or are you dramatizing a point?

 

Yes, someone has actually said that and/or insinuated it before. I don't know when you joined, but I have also been here a very long time.

 

That is a very clear straight forward warning. And I would applaud the person who said it for not sugar coating such a serious situation.

 

Would you still applaud them if the person asking for advice then insulted everyone back for being so rude and just left to carry on with that relationship?

 

IF your hanging out with a bunch of forty year old men that date 16 y/o girls then you are hanging out with peadophiles and rapist. Maybe you are upset because you just don't want to hear what could be wrong with what you are doing?

 

They aren't dating 16-year-olds (one is in their 60s and has one 9-year-old daughter, so I think he is married into an age gap relationship), but you can't define them as paedophiles just because of who they are dating unless it is a purely sexual relationship and they purposefully seek out girls that age. Being a filthy creep is what makes someone a filthy creep whether the guy is 16, 23 or 49; age doesn't define them as a filthy creep. Anyone at any age is just as likely to be one. And I am not doing anything wrong; I am not even in a relationship.

[Amasa]

First let me say thank you Avman, for stepping in. I was in no way trying to start a flame war with Sheyda, I think we are just trying to understand each others views a little better.

And who are you to judge why other people think a relationship is unsafe or unacceptable?

Sheyda, in my coment I was only trying to express to you that the things that you deam to be safe and acceptable are not considered to be so by everyone, including some people in your own culture and/ or country.

 

Yes, someone has actually said that and/or insinuated it before. I don't know when you joined, but I have also been here a very long time.

I don't think that calling someone names is helpful, and I think your right that it will stop the person from listening.

I will make note that that is a big and/or there, because insuating is a whole world of difference than actually saying.

 

There's a difference between being a filthy creep and a pedophile, and as I said in my first post I think that when the people are both adults the situation is different. If your 60 y/o friend dates 30 year old women, more power to him.

But what could he possible have in common with an 20 y/o besides sex? In your earlier post you said

I think that the one with the 16-year-old and 40-year-old is wrong because he's already married and has children; why would he leave all of this for a 16-year-old? I have heard of relationships with the same age gap working before though, but this one doesn't sound like it is genuine.

I'm curious to know under what circumstances do you think it is acceptable for a 16 y/o to date a 40 y/o ?

 

Would you still applaud them if the person asking for advice then insulted everyone back for being so rude and just left to carry on with that relationship?

yes, all you can do is tell them what is going on, they can always choose not to hear it. If giving someone a clear cut view of what is going on and what is probably going to be the outcome, if it offends them then they didn't really want advice in the first place.

 

 

It appears to me like you want everyone to coddle the person who is asking for advice, and do an eggshell dance when stating opinions. Do you really think this is the best way to get through to someone who is in a potentially explosive situation. And if not, what do you think the best way to go about it is?

( again, I' am leaving out calling someone stupid. I agree that that is no way to get accross, but I don't see anything wrong with calling someone a pedophile if they are dating children)

[I_love_rain_hugs_and_you]

LOL!!! I thought that chinck meant that someone had a cute chip munk face...i had no idea it was a racist term. In fact I was going to call this girl a chinnk because she has cute chickmunk cheekes...lol...good i found out that ahead of time

 

It's a racist term for a Chinese person.

[Sheyda]

And who are you to judge why other people think a relationship is unsafe or unacceptable?

Sheyda, in my coment I was only trying to express to you that the things that you deam to be safe and acceptable are not considered to be so by everyone, including some people in your own culture and/ or country.

 

Amasa, I never said that; you just quoted yourself. And I do know that not everyone would consider the same things to be safe and acceptable, but when someone who is in a caring, loving relationship with someone who is not manipulating them and they just ask for help I don't think it is fair for everyone to start saying their relationship is wrong based on solely age instead of helping them out.

 

Yes, someone has actually said that and/or insinuated it before. I don't know when you joined, but I have also been here a very long time.

I don't think that calling someone names is helpful, and I think your right that it will stop the person from listening.

I will make note that that is a big and/or there, because insuating is a whole world of difference than actually saying.

 

Sorry, I meant people have both said it and insinuated it. I would still be offended if it was insinuated, either way. Even if it is mentioned indirectly in a thread someone had started they would still find it insulting.

 

There's a difference between being a filthy creep and a pedophile, and as I said in my first post I think that when the people are both adults the situation is different. If your 60 y/o friend dates 30 year old women, more power to him.

But what could he possible have in common with an 20 y/o besides sex?

 

True. Though if my 60-year-old friend came here asking for help with say... communication problems, but posted here because of the age gap, some people would simply say he is wrong and a filthy old man, etc.

 

They can have lots of things in common; such as common beliefs, personalities, goals and interests as I mentioned in my first post. Aren't these factors much more important than age (provided they are both considered adults in their country)?

 

In your earlier post you said

I think that the one with the 16-year-old and 40-year-old is wrong because he's already married and has children; why would he leave all of this for a 16-year-old? I have heard of relationships with the same age gap working before though, but this one doesn't sound like it is genuine.

I'm curious to know under what circumstances do you think it is acceptable for a 16 y/o to date a 40 y/o ?

 

Personally, I do not actually think it is acceptable as I would not date someone that old myself and I know that it is completely unacceptable in most parts of America. However, I know several people who have healthy, normal and non-abusive relationships with that same age gap and if both of them are happy together and no-one is being hurt or manipulated I'm not going to jump in there and accuse anyone. In fact, there are some student/teacher relationships that have actually worked out in the end and they have married after the younger partner left school. I'm not saying that the one we're talking about is like this, I am just saying that in some cases they are not manipulative, sex-based relationships.

 

Would you still applaud them if the person asking for advice then insulted everyone back for being so rude and just left to carry on with that relationship?

yes, all you can do is tell them what is going on, they can always choose not to hear it. If giving someone a clear cut view of what is going on and what is probably going to be the outcome, if it offends them then they didn't really want advice in the first place.

 

But if you said the same thing in a constructively critical and respectful way it is more likely they would have taken your advice into consideration and followed it.

 

I don't understand how you can say that if something offends them they didn't want the advice in the first place. Some people here have simply come for help with a little problem in their age gap relationship regarding parents or something like that and then someone is insulted. Of course they didn't want insults; they wanted advice on their specific problem. They didn't come here to be told their relationship is wrong and filthy and disgusting and that they should stop seeing each other.

 

 

It appears to me like you want everyone to coddle the person who is asking for advice, and do an eggshell dance when stating opinions. Do you really think this is the best way to get through to someone who is in a potentially explosive situation. And if not, what do you think the best way to go about it is?

( again, I' am leaving out calling someone stupid. I agree that that is no way to get accross, but I don't see anything wrong with calling someone a pedophile if they are dating children)

 

No, not at all. Didn't I say in my first post that it is perfectly okay to warn them and say "I think so-and-so seems to be using you"? I never said to comfort them and say "Your relationship is A-OKAY!" to every single one and congratulate them. I just said to exercise respect, to not impose your beliefs on them and be considerate of their culture. Is that too much to ask?

 

I have already stated what I think is the best way to go about it in my first post and I have been repeating myself.

 

The problem with people calling someone a paedophile is that in some countries (i.e. their own country that they have clearly stated under their username) they are not. You can't impose your country's rules onto people from foreign countries and then say their relationship is wrong instead of helping out. If all you have to do is accuse people then you shouldn't bother replying because this is a place where you help each other, not fling around insults and force your country's rules onto other people. If you believe it is wrong because your country says so, that's fine, but it is no excuse to go around calling people paedophiles when they are in normal relationships with people who are considered adults in their country.

 

So far I have not seen any posts where people are definitely paedophiles who are dating children, so I don't see how accusing people of such a thing is justified.

 

LOL!!! I thought that chinck meant that someone had a cute chip munk face...i had no idea it was a racist term. In fact I was going to call this girl a chinnk because she has cute chickmunk cheekes...lol...good i found out that ahead of time

 

LMAO! After reading all that up there and seeing your post on the end it really made me laugh. Lots of people don't know that it's a racist term, though. In fact one of my friends thought it was a way of saying "cool Chinese person" because they always said that in movies they had watched. Luckily I explained it to him before he "complimented" this Chinese guy he sees on his way to uni.