What is wrong with people?

[stargazer25]

I am not trying to go on a gender rant here....but I think I am going to explode!

 

I keep hearing about all these men that SAY they want a relationship, want somebody who is confident, want someone who isn't insecure, somebody who is independent, they want a women who would ask THEM out blah blah blah. I am all of these things. However, when they are presented with me....they never want me or others like me...and I am labelled "intimidating". Yes, I have a strong personality, yes I am honest and upfront, no I don't play games, I am also very nice, I am also sweet, I am also funny..blah blah blah. Instead, all these men who want these confident women go running after the women that play games, are gold diggers, dress like prostitutes, are dependent, need CONSTANT reaffirming, cannot think for themselves, etc, etc, etc.

 

If I like someone, I am availible....not needy...but I don't play "hard to get". I feel like most of the time because I don't play hard to get...there is no chase, there is no challange, there is no reward (ie getting the girl) at the end. Men talk about being approached by women (how they should cause it is 2005, why they should, where they should etc etc)...but when it happens...they go running for the hills because it is perceived as being "aggressive" or a ****-buster...or a femi-nazi. They don't want to be chosen, they want to pick.

 

So, then if I actually get a date....I am labelled a tease if I flirt and don't put out, a prude if I don't put out, trashy if I do put out, femi-nazi if I want to pay for my dinner, a gold digger if I don't, If I don't flirt they are not interested, if I do then they "expect" something.

 

Again, I am not trying to paint all men with the same brush, but it is infuriating. I am not some little barbie girl who's self esteem is based on whether someone thinks I am "hot" or not, I am me, I like me. But for some reason, men avoid me like the plague. I am not ugly by any stretch, BUT I don't look like the next Maxim girl either.

 

Just needed to vent...but this "dating" thing is driving me nuts. At this point, I never want to date EVER again. I do want a relationship, however, at this point I am finding it is not worth it. Always feeling like there is something wrong with me is chipping away at my own self esteem. I am tired of being good enough to sleep with, but not good enough to date. It is starting to make me feel horrible. For the last 7 months I have had numerous dates....all of which NEVER turned out. Incredibly, incredibly frustrating!

[MetallicAguy]

Guys fall for the prostitute looking women, golddiggers, etc. because the same reason women fall for jerks. I forgot why but I think it's been developed over thousands of years of evolution. And the ones that dress like prostitutes only attract guys because they show more of their body. Which makes a guys attraction factor go off the charts lol. Don't worry though, there IS normal guys out there who want someone like yourself. Just think, there's someone out there sick of golddiggers, prostitute looking women, and selfish women. I certainly don't like these kind of women. They are really superficial. For me, that's a turn off. I'm pretty sure there's some guys besides me who find it a turn off too. Keep looking!

[annie24]

Hey Stargazer... So I take it things didn't turn out well with that guy you went out last week with?

 

*sigh* Dating sucks. Really. During my last date, I was thinking, "geezz... I'd rather be at work right now." How sad is that?

 

Anyways... go out and read "Mr. Right, Right now!" By E. Jean Carroll. She's the advice columnist for Elle magazine. It's a super funny book, very true too... you should take a look at it.

 

Good luck!!!

[stargazer25]

Which poses the question if I want the type of guy you are talking about. They go out, are shallow, have thier fun, go out with trashy girls....THEN decide they want some "wholesome" smart girl, and I am supposed to scoop them up? The last thing I want is for a guy to go "Hey I am with you because I settled"

[stargazer25]

Hey Stargazer... So I take it things didn't turn out well with that guy you went out last week with?

 

*sigh* Dating sucks. Really. During my last date, I was thinking, "geezz... I'd rather be at work right now." How sad is that?

 

Anyways... go out and read "Mr. Right, Right now!" By E. Jean Carroll. She's the advice columnist for Elle magazine. It's a super funny book, very true too... you should take a look at it.

 

Good luck!!!

 

Actually....the date went incredibly well....never had one better. I still can't tell you of ANYTHING that possibly went wrong...or was off. HOWEVER, he just never called back

[MetallicAguy]

Well if he didn't call back, it's not because you weren't a trashy woman, it's because he wasn't into you like you weren't his type unfortunately. Just keep looking.

[stargazer25]

Well if he didn't call back, it's not because you weren't a trashy woman, it's because he wasn't into you like you weren't his type unfortunately. Just keep looking.

 

Well...I have to say he played it so well....I didn't see it coming. I should also add...that if you are not interested in someone....don't flirt with them, don't make "sweet gestures", and CERTAINLY don't kiss them for an HOUR!

[MetallicAguy]

Hey, isn't my fault he was only in for it physically.

[DN]

Whenever something keeps happening to me, after a while it occurs to me "maybe it's me".

 

The fact is that every man is different, there are no rules of behaviour that men adhere to, we cannot be classified into types, any more than women can. Anybody who pretends otherwise either doesn't know what they are talking about or is a charlatan. Most 'relationship' books are like reading a medical dictionary - after a while you have every symptom of every disease. But we are all individuals with our own likes, dislikes, quirks and motivations.

 

So maybe some self analysis is in order. It is a good thing to see all that is positive about oneself and build up your self-confidence. Provided that in the process you do not overlook or minimise anything negative. Instead of assuming that the man you are dating thinks about you in the way you describe, think about your behaviour towards men that may be putting them off. In other words, don't assume that the fault lies with men before making sure that you are not the cause of your own problem.

 

There is a difference, for instance, between being strong and independent and being aggressive and unyielding. There is a difference between being honest and upfront and being forthright to the point of indifference to anothers feelings. If you are are going over the top in this way, analyse why. It may be an over-reaction to nervousness, ot just trying too hard.

 

This is in no way meant to put you down or blame you. Just to suggest that you look a little more carefully at how you behave with men. You may also want to take a look at the sort of men you date.

[stargazer25]

Hey, isn't my fault he was only in for it physically.

 

Obviously not, I know. However...he had 4 hours on my couch where he COULD have made a move...he didn't. Didn't kiss me nothing. I don't think he was in it JUST for sex. I kissed him at the DOOR as he was leaving. This is what is confusing...doesn't make a move....flirts, kisses, etc, etc....but not into me? The most insane thing I ever heard.

[MetallicAguy]

Lol, maybe he was shy or over-coming shyness. Maybe he likes to be a doormat. lol.

[stargazer25]

I totally understand where you are coming from. And believe me, I have analyzed myself to death. I am a psych major, go figure. I have asked everyone I know (my friends are the type to say "hey wait a second here"), I have asked friends, family, parents, siblings....and all of them don't have a clue. This is what I get from them:

 

You are confident, and that intimidates people

You know what you want, and that intimidates people

You don't play games, and that intimidates people

ETC ETC

 

I am not saying that I am perfect....but at this point...as I have analyzed myself to death, I come up with nothing. I have even asked friends...well...maybe it is this? And they will disagree. So I am at a loss

[DN]

Do you go places where you meet successful and confident men who are unlikely to be intimidated by a successful, confident woman?

[stargazer25]

Well...if someone told me where they were hiding, I would give it a try..lol

[Royltnxile]

I've been hiding in Peoria, IL Stargazer! lmao

[stargazer25]

No wonder...lmfao...I am in the wrong country..lol

[shes2smart]

Dating is kinda like living in a bowl of granola....what isn't fruits & nuts is flakes.

 

I could swap dating horror stories with you til the wee hours of the morning. I went through a lot of weirdos when I was single. Thing is (if my single male friends are to be believed) there are just as many mixed-up women out there as men.

 

All I can tell you is be who you are, speak your truth, and if he can't accept that, move on to the next one quickly. There's a balance between giving a guy a fair chance and not wasting your time. Try to find it. Be clear with yourself and potential suitors what your relationship goals are. If their relationship goals, don't match yours, walk away before you get involved.

 

The clearer the picture you have in your head of where you want to end up, the more likely you are to get there. I started working on figuring out what my ideal relationship looked like in 1992. It took me until 2001 (at the age of 37) to meet someone who shared that vision and was willing to do what it took to make it real. Along the way there were more bad dates, bad relationships and broken hearts than I care to remember, but it was all worth it to get to be in the kind of marriage I'm in with my husband.

 

Chin up...'cause every weirdo is one less you have to weed through to get where you wanna be.

[Caldus]

The thing you have to realize is that you can't expect most dates to go well. That's why you're going on a date with them. To see if they are right for you. Most people are just not going to be compatible enough with you for a relationship. So don't take it personally whenever you get rejected. Haven't you rejected people in the past? Just about everyone has at one point or another.

 

As long as women complain about how men go for women who dress like prostitutes, men will complain about how women go for complete jerks. Dating is a numbers game. Keep searching until you find the right guy and don't settle for something less according to your standards.

[annie24]

In her book that I'm reading, E. Jean Carroll has a very interesting chapter entitled, "Intimidating the Poor Bastards? Good!"

 

She writes about watching an episode of Oprah, where a gorgeous, successful woman (that she calls Miss Cashmere) was complaining that she scared men away.

[stargazer25]

I even understand having a bad date or dates. Understand that. However, what I don't understand....is if you aren't interested, then that is all you have to say. Don't play games. One guy...I started seeing him for like a month....then he fell off the planet. It really isn't so hard to say "Hey, I don't see this going anywhere". Further...what is worse is when you have a really awesome date, and they don't call. My wiring isn't off....I know when a date has gone bad....and the last one wasn't bad in the slightest.

 

I have made it clear to people that I am confident, am opinionated, believe in honesty, don't like flakiness etc. They are always enthusiastic about it, find it "refreshing"...then they don't...or something. It's not like I am saying it to impress them...it is me. It shouldn't be a big surprise when I am like that.

 

And yes, since my last relationship I have clearly defined to myself what I want. I do know what I want and what I don't. Yes, I have "rejected" people, but I have done so in a way that doesn't make them feel like total jerks, nor have I ever treated somebody like they were insignificant by ignoring them.

 

Yes, I do have flaws...but in my mind they are not "drastic" flaws. Also, my positive attributes aren't horrible either. Meaning...yes I am honest, but I am not rude. I am confident, but not arrogant. I am opinionated, but I never shoot someone else's opinions down. See what I mean?

 

And Annie...others have always called me intimidating....I don't think that of myself. I don't think I am...I think I am a pretty nice person. Many people have told me that I was intimidating in the beginning, but after they got to know me...don't see it at all. I don't walk around feeling like I am too much to handle....actually I think I am pretty down to earth.

[Caldus]

...is if you aren't interested, then that is all you have to say. Don't play games.

 

If you weren't interested in a guy, would you tell him that? Be honest. A lot of people are just too afraid to say it. I know, it's dumb. But just move on if that ever happens. That's it.

[gersanos]

They don't want to be chosen, they want to pick.

 

Women do choose who they want to date/be with, men do the picking once they know that they have been chosen.

[Mun]

Hi there,

I wonder what exactly you are doing that is intimidating men. I think there is nothing wrong with being a strong woman, but are you letting these men impress you with their sense of humor, their wit, their accomplisments... or are you are dominating the conversation?

 

Are you afraid of being vulnerable? If you are then you might be masking this by being a tough gal... it's not easy for others to get close to you if you are closed up. Any idea if this is what is going on?

 

I think you said that in this date you had the man spent alot of time with you but didn't make a move... then why on Earth did you make a move? He might not have been "into you" and had no plans to move on to kissing. Yet you went ahead and kissed him.. then end up wondering why he is not calling.. well he might not have planned on calling you anyway--because maybe he wasn't into you, but kissed you because, well, you initiated it and maybe he enjoyed the kissing. Sometimes we shoot ourselves in the foot because we don't know how to be patient and let things happen ( or not) on their own.

 

All in all it just might be that you are picking the wrong men. What happens to the guys who are really into you... do you give them a chance. Or has there never been anyone that fell head over heels for you?

[Spirits Away]

Sometimes it's not really the fact that you are strong, and thereforeeee, guys feel intimidated. I meet females and sometimes they're just not the type. The things we talk about, the attitudes we have about life is really different from mine. For example, i would filter out girls who says the sympathetic "aww.." just a bit too fast. I would not go for the all positive type of girls because I can not comprehend that type of girls. I would go to an extent where I would start wondering if they're being real or not. What usually turns me off is showing too much differences at the beginning of the date. It's not really about you being confident or not (that is a plus if insecurity is holding you back from having a normal conversation), it's about whether you guys have some things to relate to & thereforeeee, have a reason to call you out again.

 

I think girls shouldn't think that we'd be thinking about you the whole time after the initial date. We often don't. He may have other things going on in his life. I've once had a blind date with a girl but never really called her afterwards since i was just being careless doing other things. It turned out that i e-mailed her back 2 weeks later. She e-mailed me back the 3rd week, i e-mailed the 5th and there were no more contact between us afterwards. I know a friend from her side knowing that she was hurt that i did that, but my side was more like... I was really busy adjusting to my life in a new region so i didn't call. And no, i did not think about her too much. I don't mind meeting up with her again, it's just that I got too much things to do and saw the meeting to be more like knowing an extra friend rather than an official date.

[stargazer25]

Ahh...I forgot to mention....this guy did kiss me first. He gave me a hug and a peck on the lips. THEN gave me another hug....I wouldn't say I just moved right in....it WAS mutual. And if you are not into someone....then you certainly don't sit there with an erection half the night. And you certainly wouldn't kiss them for an HOUR, and yes it was an hour. Yes, I did "let" him impress me with his wit, and his intellegence....I did not dominate the conversation. Further...he mentioned before he left that he was going to leave at a certain time and didn't. SOOOO...if you are not into someone...why stay longer than you intended? Further...if you are just after sex, then you make a move. A peck on the lips....does not indicate you want to JUST sleep with someone.

 

Am I afraid to be vulnerable? No. However, I don't lay everything on the line and tell people my life story either...well...certainly not right away.

 

To the other poster...I have told people that I am not interested in them. I don't hold a different standard to people than I hold myself to. I don't "ignore" people....but expect them to tell me what is going on.

 

Further...I understand that after one date I shouldn't all of a sudden become his entire world. HOWEVER, before a date...if you are talking on the phone for hours then you can't be THAT disinterested. The one night I had to work and didn't talk to him, he emailed me. This is my summary of the date just to clarify:

 

His suggestion was to go to this restaurant, which is quite private, and also quite pricey. I felt uncomfortable about this..as I don't really enjoy people spending that kind of money...but I had resolved to order something that was not expensive (which I did!). He picked me up, went to the restaurant, he opened doors for me, sat at the restaurant had a lot of fun. We flirted a lot, smiled a lot, laughed a lot.

 

He came back to my place, I massaged his back for over an hour while we watched a movie. The movie ended, so we watched tv. He continued to flirt, tickle me, give me a hand massage, laugh, joke around and talk. At the end of the date he also told me that he was planning to leave earlier than he actually did. He did things like play with my hair, and stroke my cheek. During this whole time, I was waiting for him to kiss me...but he didn't. I walked him to the door...he gave me a hug and a peck on the lips. He then gave me another hug, and we kissed. I even asked him why he originally only gave me a peck. He said it was because he was a "nice guy".