What's the difference between "not controlling" and indifference?

[Unreasonable]

I have an appt scheduled this thursday. Should be interesting. Keep ya posted.

[Fudgie]

For both of you?

[Unreasonable]

For both of you?

 

Yes. She's not exactly going into it with a good attitude ("waste of time and money"), but she's going. I didn't have to coerce her.

[Fudgie]

I'm really happy it's for both of you. While her attitude isn't the best, you didn't have to coerce her. That's a good sign. I'm hoping for you both.

[Unreasonable]

So, we had our counselling session last night. Yeah, she's pretty much gone. We were able to determine that one of the reasons for this is because, about 15 years ago, I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and she took on the role of caretaker during that time for about 8 years, and did an admittedly fantastic job. I have recovered from that, graduated from college, and am now a successful software engineer. However I have since been diagnosed with type II diabetes, which i would say I'm not managing perfectly, but I am eating better, taking medication, and exercise. I do not require insulin at this time. She is deeply entrenched in the medical field and has seen all sorts of horror stories, and does not want to have to play caretaker again. She doesn't realistically think it would be easier on her, but she'd like her problems to be "her problems." Honestly, I can't really fault her at that. One time is tough, twice would be even harder, irrespective of the "in sickness and in health."

 

The thing that's silly about this, is nothing is really wrong now. I'm a good provider, a good man, and a good father. She would agree with that. I do feel, that, slowly, if things continued on the same path, she could come out of the fog. I also have reason to believe that she would not go anywhere in the immediate future.

 

What's getting to me though, is when I suggested she start working again, it was to provide mental relief for me so that I was not the sole provider and sole barrier between us and financial ruin. Also, I think she needed it because she was miserable at home alone. However, since I now know that this job/schooling (she's being paid to learn a profession) is a means to be able to eventually live an independent life, it's not really providing the mental relief that I wanted in the first place. One of her issues is we didn't have any retirement. Is her paycheck going into retirement? Nope. We're just spending more money. Could it? Yep.

 

My dream is to have a life with someone who loves me, and is in it to the end. Even if there is sickness and adversity. That dream is now shattered. Now, I may be able to rebuild this dream on this current unstable foundation, or I could take my chances doing it on a clean slate. How long is it going to take to get her out of the fog? No one can answer this cause she doesn't even know. It may not even be possible. I have kids to consider too. I'm really confused as what to do now.

 

My other option is separation. She seems to think that could help her see me for what I am and perhaps snap her out of it. I am fairly confident that, even if I gave her enough money to be "comfortable", that me being gone having total responsibility of everything would reality check her into what I really bring to the table. At this point, I'm kind of thinking I have little to lose by trying that? Yeah. It could result in a divorce. But that could happen anyway. I'm in my 40's. If divorce is inevitable, wouldn't it be better to happen sooner than later? I'm still a fit, attractive man, who, even with an alimony/child support hit, makes enough money (low 6 figures) to live comfortably.

[redswim30]

It's strange that she's aware of it, but lots of divorces report kinda the same thing. The day the wife stopped nagging was the day she completely gave up on the marriage.

 

Not really, I'll tell you why having been in this position.

 

Granted, I don't think ANY spouses should nag each other at ALL. HOWEVER, I understand the intent of the statement. She is in essence saying, " Not nagging means I do not care at all anymore"

 

In my former marriage, a LOT of things used to upset me. We would argue. Eventually, the marriage got to a point where I knew things weren't going well and were not going to get better.

So I "checked out" to the point where I literally did not care anymore. There was no need to fight about anything. I fell completely out of love and didn't care whatsoever what he did, said or thought anymore.

I tuned him out. By the very end, I didn't even care that he had a girlfriend, I was SO emotionally over him.

 

So, yes weird sentiment. But I understand the implications behind it.

 

I'd be concerned if I were you.

 

Divorce is never easy, but there's never a "good" time to do it. It's up to you whether you think this marriage is worth saving or not.

 

I will also tell you from experience that trying to stay in a marriage all by yourself is a losing battle. Hence, why I finally stopped caring.

 

But I will tell you that staying in a loveless marriage because it's simpler than divorcing tends to breed anger and resentment from both people. Having witnessed this first hand, I think this is a FAR worse fate than a divorce.

[Unreasonable]

So, redswim, I know that we're both likely in different situations, but let me asked you a hypothetical. After the point that you checked out, did your ex make any improvements? If he had addressed the things that had upset you (I'm going to guess he didn't), do you think that would have turned you around? Could ANYTHING have turned you around?

[redswim30]

So, redswim, I know that we're both likely in different situations, but let me asked you a hypothetical. After the point that you checked out, did your ex make any improvements? If he had addressed the things that had upset you (I'm going to guess he didn't), do you think that would have turned you around? Could ANYTHING have turned you around?

 

Little different because he KEPT doing awful things to me for years that I kept begging and pleading with him not to do. Eventually, I got to the point where I just thought, " This isn't going to work out anyway. He is never going to stop. Why waste my energy on him, since we'll obviously get divorced at some point anyway."

 

So, I feel kinda odd since it's not the same situation as you. Had he tried when I was making those impassioned requests to him, it might have been different.

 

But by the time I had emotionally checked out of the marriage, No. I was done at the point. Any (even genuine) effort on his part would have been too little, too late.

But please understand that this was after more than five years of begging him to try, work on us, attempts at counseling, etc.

 

I can tell you though, that if she is not really invested in working on things, counseling will do you no good. Again, you can't be in a marriage alone. And you can't salvage it alone, no matter how hard you try.

 

Before you spend a TON of money on counseling (that you wish may wish you had during a divorce) make sure she is on the same page about saving the marriage.

[Unreasonable]

Thanks. That's just it. I don't know what stage she's in. She keeps telling me that it's a "process" that's going to "take time" but she can't or won't put a label on what this process is. Reconciliation? Impressing her? I'm going to ask her that question next time I'm at the counselor. I feel like I may have caught this before it's too late. And I can't say that I'm 100% alone in the marriage. We're cordial to eachother. We go on dates. We have good sex. We take care of our responsibilities. But it feels like we're going through the motions and that the "I'll be there for you" marital bond seems severely lacking.

[redswim30]

Thanks. That's just it. I don't know what stage she's in. She keeps telling me that it's a "process" that's going to "take time" but she can't or won't put a label on what this process is. Reconciliation? Impressing her? I'm going to ask her that question next time I'm at the counselor. I feel like I may have caught this before it's too late. And I can't say that I'm 100% alone in the marriage. We're cordial to eachother. We go on dates. We have good sex. We take care of our responsibilities. But it feels like we're going through the motions and that the "I'll be there for you" marital bond seems severely lacking.

 

I'm sorry to tell you, that this sounds very much like she is biding her time until she is ready to jump. I'm glad you can recognize that "being civil" does not mean things are okay. Most divorce lawyers will tell you that people often stay and remain civil while they gather legal help, information and an escape plan. I don't know if that's what's going on here or not.

 

I really think you need to protect yourself and not let her get away with vague terms here. You are talking about the state of your marriage. You should be able to talk about it. If things are fine, what's the harm? If you want things to improve, a conversation is necessary. And if you are headed towards divorce, you will find out eventually.

What you definitely DON'T want is to be blindsided. While you are still married, she has permission to gather information without your knowledge, harder to prove assets after a separation and access can be barred. Again, may not be the case here, BUT understand that a person can be civil while preparing to stab you in the back and it's better to be safe than sorry and prepared than blindsided.

 

If I were you, I'd sit her down for a serious talk. Realizing, of course, that it may not go well. But again, if her plan is to divorce you, you are going to find out sooner or later.

 

You need to discuss the state of your marriage. You need to know if you are on the same page and working together. You need answers from her that aren't, " A process". WHAT process? It could mean the process of repairing the marriage or the divorce process. But it's unfair to keep you in the dark, and she can't hide her endgame forever. I would just be honest and say, " We need to be 100 % honest about our intentions and what we are moving towards." I would even go so far as to say, " I want the truth over sparing my feelings, I need to know where your head is at. We don't need labels, but it's only fair to me that I know what you are thinking" Totally reasonable and fair. You may not get the answer you want, but if your feelings are going to be hurt regardless, then I think hurt but prepared is better. Good luck!