Ex emailed me today

[csdude55]

I really, truly don't know, Darcy. I just don't.

 

Long before she and I were together, when we were just friends, a group of us went out to Applebee's, and she mentioned that she had left her boyfriend "for the last time". We were all helping her celebrate when her mom called, and she went outside.

 

She sat outside for almost an hour while her mom berated her about leaving him. I couldn't hear the conversation, but when she came back she was visibly upset, and telling one of the other girls (which I overheard; couldn't be helped, I was only 3' away) that her mom had been telling her that it's a "woman's job" to "do what her man tells her to do", that if she leaves she's "spitting in God's eye", and that she would be "condemning her whole family to Hell". She's been raised in a church like this, so she honestly, truly believes that she's going to go to Hell, and her children will go to Hell, if she doesn't stay in this bad relationship.

 

Much later, when we were together, she told me a story about when she had broken up with him earlier last year (before she and I met). She had moved to another town to stay with her cousin (another single woman with kids, so they were going to babysit for one another), when her ex got drunk, then tried to drive over there to find her (presumably to beg her back). But he wrecked his car and got really hurt.

 

There was some debate on whether he had tried to kill himself. So she went back to him then, too, not only because she felt bad for him, but because she was afraid he would hurt himself if she didn't. Or worse, he was already controlling and borderline abusive; what if he had shown up at her cousin's house in the middle of the night, drunk and looking for a fight? He might have hurt her or the kids, too. Or forcibly taken the kids, driving off while drunk, then wrecking and killing all of them.

 

Before THAT, she had left him again... only to learn that she was pregnant, so she went back to him.

 

So you see, she's been in this very negative relationship for awhile. She's told me multiple stories about how she's tried to leave, but every time she does something drags her back.

 

Now, do I really want all of that drama in my life? No, of course not. Ideally, she would have left him last year, been single for awhile, then we would have met and connected. But I do recognize that her life experiences has made her the woman that I fell in love with, and so I'm prepared to take the bad with the good.

 

What I REALLY want, though, is to be in love with a woman the same way that I love Anna, and for this woman to love me back just as much as I love her. Whether that means fighting tooth and nail to get Anna back, or moving on and hoping to find someone else that makes me feel the same, I don't know, but I'm open either way. This late in the game, though, finding someone new feels less and less likely.

 

Of course you guys realize that, here, I'm more or less just venting, ranting, and expressing deep emotions that, sometimes, I don't even realize exist until I'm typing it out.

[Ms Darcy]

Well, in between all that coming and going she got pregnant ... meaning they were having sex. Suggests to me that it was more than a relationship in name only.

[csdude55]

Well, I kind of assumed that! LOL I'm pretty stupid, but I kind of get the gist of where babies come from ;-)

 

This was about 2 years ago, though. She and I never talked much about her sex life with her ex. Honestly, I never felt like it was any of my business; after she and I were "official" it became my business, but not before that. And I assume that they're sexually active now, too. Which I don't like to think about, but if she's trying to make it work with him like she said, then I have to recognize that she means she's trying both emotionally and physically.

 

She did tell me a story that really bothered me, though, but explains a lot. When she met the father of her children, she was still a minor and living at home with her mom, while he was considerably older (like, 28 or 29). Before they were even dating, her mom actually encouraged her to have sex with him, mainly because she knew he wanted it. Which, of course, is how she got pregnant the first time.

 

You see, it's her mom's religious belief that the woman's role in life is to please her man and have children. Education isn't important, and she shouldn't work, or even have friends. For lack of a better phrase, her job is to be barefoot and pregnant, have dinner on the table when the man comes home, and make him happy at bedtime. She doesn't believe in a woman's right to say no to a man, use birth control, or divorce.

 

(They also don't allow her to cut her hair, wear "modern" clothes, or listen to music that isn't approved by the church.)

 

Anna doesn't really share these beliefs (at least, not so strictly), but I think it sort of explains why I believe there's real inner turmoil here, and it's not just her stroking two guy's egos. I believe that she's really struggling with her personal desires, versus her religious upbringing and her mother's (warped) guidance. Being with me means that she's going to be shunned by her family and church, she's going against everything she's been raised to believe, and if she and I don't work out then she'll be alone, literally.

[csdude55]

My ex sent me a message on Sunday, after 3 weeks of no contact. Our entire conversation:

 

Her (Sunday, 2:53pm): Hii !! how are you!!

 

Me (Sunday, 5:13pm): Hey !! I'm great, how are you !!

 

Her (Monday, 11:03am): I'm great what have you been up to

 

Me (Monday, 4:22pm): How's your new job and everything going?

And... now it's Friday. She hasn't read my last message, and for all I know she's forgotten all about us having a conversation.

 

Nothing for nothing, but I learned today why she (probably) hasn't contacted me since last week.

 

I went to the restaurant where she used to work, and I'm friends with the owner. He told me that she her BF (father of her kids) lost his job last week, and she's hoping to come back to work for him part time. He told me this with a huge smile on his face, like he thought it would tickle me to death for her to come back where I'd see her all the time, so I'm not quite sure how much of our relationship he knows; is he unaware of the breakup, or does he think that this would help us get back together? I've never mentioned anything about our relationship to him at all, so anything he knows would have come from her.

 

Regardless, you may recall that her BF is very controlling. He reads her Facebook messages and texts before she's "allowed" to read them, so even if she wanted to write me back, she wouldn't be able to.

 

Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing, I have no idea. But it's a development to the saga, anyway

[pippy longstocking]

cs I know you wont agree with me ....but ... she has had every opportunity to not be with her husband ..she has walked away and walked back .. he isn't so bad ..if he was the controlling monster she is making him out to be then she really would have taken the FIRST opportunity to walk and keep walking .

 

To some extent I call it a total washout to use the kids over and over as an excuse ..you seem to be more attracted because she is such a dedicated mother , giving the love of her life up (you) to go back into the arms of a man she doesn't want to be with .... over and over ..cs ..honest if it where that bad she would not be there and she can give you all the excuses in the world , but the point is she has CHOSEN this ...

 

I agree with darcy woman that you are rebound ... and I think you are in a very dangerous position emotionally , because she has reached out to you .. for what ? so she can have both worlds ..so when it isnt feeling so peachy at home she has you as her fall back guy . Don't allow this to happen . What if she leaves him again ? Would you be able to live like this ..knowing she could go back..

[csdude55]

I don't disagree with you at all, Star. Or with Darcy, for that matter. The thing is, I just don't know anything for sure, so it's all just speculation. I'm only able to give you guys bits and pieces that seem relevant to me, but God knows I could be leaving out important details that I've overlooked. And I'm obviously way too close to the situation to make an unbiased judgement. So all we're really doing is sitting around and trying to guess someone else's mind.

 

On the one hand, I totally understand succumbing to pressure from your family and church, because I see it all the time. How many gay people live their life in their closet for the same reason? I have one close friend that's a 43 year old gay man, but still pretends to be straight because of his mother and her church. His 49 year old boyfriend of 12 years has to pretend to be a roommate, with a separate bedroom and everything. So it's ridiculous, but I think we've all seen it.

 

But on the other hand, this could all just be an excuse that she's using, trying to hurt my feelings less; instead of the old "it's not you, it's me", she could be saying "it's not you, it's my mom and her church". I don't think this is the situation, but again, I'm too close to the situation to be sure.

 

As for the boyfriend (for the record, they've never been married), I don't think that she ever realized how abusive he is, and I'm not sure that she believes me even now. But both she and our mutual friends have told me several stories about him: he doesn't let her talk to her mom, she's not allowed to have friends that he doesn't pre-approve, she can't leave the home without supervision, he keeps her phone and reads all of her texts and FB messages before letting her read them, he controls all of the money (she gets a check and signs it over to him)*. When they argue (which is often), he regularly breaks her things, and I've seen bruises on her arms from where he grabs her and squeezes. She said that he's never actually hit her, but she's felt like he was about to hit her more than once.

 

These are the things I know with about 90% certainty, based on evidence I've seen and eyewitness accounts. So while he may not be a monster, per se, I do think that he's always one beer away from being physically abusive. And it does bother me that in her family and culture, this seems to be common and accepted.

 

* Speaking of the money, that's another reason she mentioned not being able to leave. She simply has no money of her own, at all. No car or license, and her mom won't let her stay with her. So leaving isn't really a physical option. The last two times they broke up, they still lived together but she slept in the kids room. He worked out of town at the time, and only came home on weekends, so she tried to arrange her work schedule for when he was there, but they still saw each other occasionally. You can imagine that this wasn't a very comfortable situation, but without money, what's the alternative?

 

With all of that said... I don't think that I was a rebound, really, but I'm more concerned that she just fell for me because I was nice, kind, didn't try to control her, and was perfectly willing to trust her 100%... basically, the exact opposite of what she's always had. So maybe she doesn't love me inasmuch as she loves the idea of someone like me.

 

Now, that's a huge concern. Long term, if she were to leave him, become ostracized from her family and church, only to find that she doesn't really love me, and possibly resents me for it? That would be major.

 

In an ideal world, she would leave him because she realizes he's a bad match for her, and then (separately and unrelated) she and I start dating again. In this scenario, whether we work out or not, everything is better. If we end up being in love forever, then great! But if we find that it's not working and it ends, we both have closure and can move on without any real resentment.

 

Worst case scenario, honestly, would be her leaving him JUST to be with me. I would always worry about measuring up, and like you said, I would always be concerned about her leaving to go back to him. And I would always worry that she feels regret and resentment, thinking about the "what if".

 

We're totally jumping ahead, though, since she hasn't even emailed me in a week. All I can really say is that IF she were to contact me, and IF we still click, and IF she wanted to get back together, then the only way I could move forward with it is if she has already left him, and our reconnection is a completely separate entity.

[weathergirl]

>>he doesn't let her talk to her mom

>>as for the boyfriend, they've never been married

>>it's not you, it's my mom and her church

 

-----

 

Several things just don't jibe cs...and I am sorry, but the way I see it, from everything you have written, from all the bull crap she tells you about this so-called controlling, abusive "boyfriend" (NOT husband)...along with everything else she has told you re her "feelings" for you, etc. -- she is playing you like a freakin fiddle!

 

You won't see that though cuz you are wearing BLINDERS...and you are, as they say, "a fool in love.". And a big one at that...sorry.

 

Bull Crap No. 1: He doesn't let her talk to her mom, but yet according to HER, she went back to him cause she felt pressure from mom to do so?? Why the hell would mom be pressuring her to go back to and STAY with a man who won't "allow" her own daughter to talk to her??!! Makes NO sense.

 

Bull Crap No.: 2: Blaming it on mom and her Church. If this were true, why would mom be pressuring her to go back to and stay with a man to whom she is not even married? Last I checked, the church frowns upon couples living together sans marriage BIG TIME, especially when they have children together!! Makes no sense.

 

Bull Crap No. 4: And the so-called abuse/control thing: What the hell kind of mom pressures her daughter to go back to and stay with a man who (1) doesn't "let" her leave the house without supervision, (2) can't have friends unless he pre-approves, (3) reads all her private messages before she does, (4) monitors her every move, (5) doesn't even allow her to talk to her own mom, (5) is one beer away from beating the crap out of her...all for a man who won't even marry her??!!!!

 

Can't you see how utterly absurd this all sounds?? If she wanted out so bad...to be with you...why hasn't she told her mom any of this??? She has no problem telling you of course (keeping you on the hook to fall back on should the BOYFRIEND leave)...but doesn't tell her mom?

 

What does her mom think about him not "allowing" her to talk to her?? THAT alone is enough of a reason for the mom to be encouraging her to get the hell out..NOT pressuring her to stay with!!

 

And again..they're living together (in sin according to the church)....but yet she went back and stays "because of her mom and her church"???

 

Oh I am sure you will find a rational explanation for all of this, you usually do.

 

Because you're wearing blinders and refuse to see this chick is and has been playing you for a fool for a very long time, which YOU allow because of godonlyknows what reason. Ego, who knows.

 

What you don't get and I (and others) have mentioned this before is words mean NOTHING when not backed up with ACTIONS.

 

Forget about all the flowery things she has "told" you about her so-called "feelings" for you...it's BS! Her actions should tell you everything you need to know.

 

That she dumped you, went back to her ex, got pregnant and has CHOSEN to stay with him because she wants to be with HIM and not you. Obviously!

 

This is all very clear to me and everyone else reading your posts...and unless you choose to get your head out of the water and join reality, you will continue getting played, and will never be able to move on.

 

I know this is harsh but someone had to say it...

 

cs, I have come to really adore you, truly, but please, for your own sake wake up!!!

 

(big hug)..cause I think you need one.

[Ms Darcy]

I agree with shooting star. I think she's feeding you a bunch of crap there is no way you can verify because you weren't in the room ... such as her mom made her sleep with him or she slept in the kids room.

 

Why? For sympathy and attention. Some of it may even be innocent in her mind but no doubt self serving.

[weathergirl]

No he wasn't in he room but he can utilize his god given common sense... and if the *pieces* don't fit which they clearly don't (especially the BS about going back because of mom and her church) -- that one is actually laughable as they are living in "sin" according to the church -- then he gracefully walks away and takes the necessary steps to emotionally move on, which includes no longer responding to her texts, etc.

 

Done.

[csdude55]

Now, don't get me wrong here. At this point, there are absolutely no options for me, so I'm just rehashing facts as I see them... both to clarify things in my mind, and to get alternate perspectives. I'm still solid with the point that if she wants me back, she has to be the one to do some work to prove it, and it has to be AFTER she has left him for good.

 

With that said, weathergirl, I've wondered the same thing about why the church seems to be OK with them living together, but not married. I haven't asked, so this is just speculation, but I suspect that the father may not be a legal citizen.

 

A few years ago, another Mexican friend of mine invited me to her wedding. She moved to the US when she was 9, but I'm not sure about the husband. It was a huge, elaborate party, but there was no real ceremony, so I didn't quite understand if I had missed the ceremony and just went to the reception or what.

 

Sometime in 2014, though, she mentioned to me again about her wedding. I was confused, and asked what she meant. She couldn't quite explain it, just that this one would be a "legal" wedding.

 

I dropped the subject because I figured this was either a cultural thing, or maybe something embarrassing to her. But I guessed that maybe they couldn't have a legal wedding due to one of them not being a legal citizen, and maybe now they are legal so they could have a legal wedding.

 

I simply don't know, and have no real way of asking. I do know, though, that when I first met Anna, she talked about her "husband", but she later said that they're really not married, they just say that. So I guessing that they had a ceremony and just didn't sign the wedding certificate? But I simply don't know.

 

 

Bull Crap No. 4: And the so-called abuse/control thing: What the hell kind of mom pressures her daughter to go back to and stay with a man who (1) doesn't "let" her leave the house without supervision, (2) can't have friends unless he pre-approves, (3) reads all her private messages before she does, (4) monitors her every move, (5) doesn't even allow her to talk to her own mom, (5) is one beer away from beating the crap out of her...all for a man who won't even marry her??!!!!

 

I don't have an answer for this one, either, but most of this information came from our mutual friends, not her.

 

1) may be subjective. I know that she wants a car, but he controls the money and hasn't bought one for her. I also know that his father lives next door. So any time she wants to go somewhere, either the BF or his father are expected to take her. And if she leaves with someone else, his father sees and it starts a fight.

 

Now, he may be seeing this as being protective and helping, where she sees it as not being able to leave without supervision.

 

2) This one was told to me by more than one friend, not her. This can be subjective, too, though; I know that Pentecostals don't generally approve of having friends that aren't Pentecostal.

 

3) This one I know for sure. That's why she comes to a different website to talk to me; it's one he doesn't know about.

 

4) This one circles back to (1), I think.

 

5) That's really my synopsis, not hers. But a man that breaks things during fights and will bruise her is, IMO, pretty close to hitting her.

 

 

What does her mom think about him not "allowing" her to talk to her?? THAT alone is enough of a reason for the mom to be encouraging her to get the hell out..NOT pressuring her to stay with!!

 

You're asking me to explain crazy, and well... I can't! LOL

 

I can tell you one story that Anna told me awhile back, though, that might explain it a little. She was talking about a very scary situation when she was younger, and her older brother had gotten violent and started beating her and her sister, giving Anna a black eye and her sister a broken arm. Instead of the brother getting in trouble, though, the girls did. Her mom (allegedly) said, "why did you have to make him so angry?"

 

IMO, her mom has the mentality of an abused woman, although Anna swears that her dad was always kind and never raised a hand to any of them. Maybe her mom's father was abusive? I don't know, but that's kind of how it seems.

 

 

That she dumped you, went back to her ex, got pregnant and has CHOSEN to stay with him because she wants to be with HIM and not you. Obviously!

 

Just to clarify, the pregnancy I'm referring to was YEARS ago, well before she met me. I was telling the stories above in order of when she told me, not their actual chronology.

 

I don't mean for this to sound like I'm just finding rational explanations for everything. I guess to some degree I am, but I'm trying to explain why it doesn't all sound like BS to me. I believe that she really opened up to me and told me some of her deepest fears and concerns, and I simply have no reason to believe that it was all just lies and manipulation.

 

But again, none of it really matters at this point. For all I know, I might never see her again.

[SoulTaker]

CS, your "ex" reminds me of women who are sacrificial lambs. They've given up on having a good life in order for their children to have a family environment. They feel that this is best for the children (though it isn't). The children's father knows this, and uses it as a trump card whenever she thinks of leaving.

 

This might not be the case for you, but I've seen this in a number of women. It always centers around the children, and there's nothing you can do but walk away. What you're doing (interacting with her) is a waste of time and effort.

 

Either way, when she is emotionally drained, she reaches out to you to get the emotional uplift (thinking of you from the past), that she doesn't get from her current partner.

[csdude55]

This is going to sound sooo Oedipal, SoulTaker, and dear God I hope it's not true, but...

 

I have mommy issues, I can admit that. I've talked about it before: my parents fought all the time (sometimes physical, but mostly just yelling), and made it very clear that they were only staying together for the kids (my sister and I). It got to a point where they worked different shifts so that they never really saw one another, which mostly left me at home alone after school until around 11pm.

 

There were sooo many times that my mom packed her bags and left, but then came back, anyway. She would cite religion, money, "not giving up everything she's worked for", the alleged welfare of my sister and I... you name it. Much later in life, I learned that when I was a baby (or maybe before I was born) she had actually left and had a boyfriend, but for some unknown reason she still came back to my dad.

 

I've never really thought of it until reading your post, SoulTaker, but I guess to some degree, maybe subconsciously, I'm seeing this repeat with Anna. And maybe I'm still trying to save my mom by trying to save Anna from that same fate.

 

At least, if I were writing a novel of my life, this is the metaphor I'd use. I fell in love with Anna before really knowing a lot of her story, so I honestly don't know if I saw the parallels before falling in love or not.

 

Anyway. I think you're 100% right on all of those points, SoulTaker.

 

At this point I haven't actually heard from her in a week and a half, so it all may be moot by now, anyway. But I'm sort of suspecting that it's nowhere near over. I mentioned before that a mutual friend told me that her BF (father of her kids) lost his job last week, and she's trying to get a job back at the restaurant where she and I first met... where she knows I eat 4 days a week. I haven't heard if they've hired her or not, but I know they were considering it a few days ago.

 

There are several potential variables here for me to consider:

 

1. In the past, the more time she spent with him, the more they fought. So being together every day is very likely to have created a volatile household.

 

2. They had money problems (she said that he had borrowed a lot of money that put them in debt, but I don't know the whole story), so cutting the income in half is going to add to the stress.

 

3. He doesn't want her to work at all, so he's going to feel emasculated by her being the sole provider while he stays home with the kids. That's not going to help with the stress, either.

 

4. Her resolution to this is to go to the one place where she KNOWS she'll see me... all the time. I can't help but think that I factored in to this decision, at least a little. There are 200 restaurants she could work at in this county, but she picked THIS one.

 

Maybe it's my ego, but it does make me think that she's really wanting to see me. It's possible, though, that she picked this restaurant because she has a positive work history there, and maybe the idea of seeing me is actually a negative in her mind? I have no way of knowing, really.

 

If she does get the job back, it puts me in a little bit of an unexpected position. By text or message, I can tell her to please back off until she's ready to commit. But in person, it's not so easy. And I can't just avoid the restaurant completely; I'm friends with the owner and some of the staff, and I regularly take clients here for business meetings. So she'll have put me in a position where I'll almost HAVE to see her, regularly. Intentional or not? Who knows.

 

I can almost read the future on this one. She's going to say she wants us to just be friends, and I'll kind of have to say OK because there's not much of an alternative. I can't very well say no, but then expect her to wait on my table! LOL We'll see each other all the time, where she'll use me as an emotional crutch again.

 

Eventually, she might even break up with her BF, swear to me that it's over for good, and want us to get back together. If I'm still single at the time, I'm enough of a darn fool to take her back... so then the question will be whether it sticks this time.

[pippy longstocking]

cs ...with kindness

 

honestly it is breath taking to read all this analyzing over someone you was with for a few months ... I think you really are developing a problem here my friend , a big problem .

[csdude55]

You know what really chaps my hide, Star? The fact that, ever since I heard she might be coming back to that restaurant, I've been in a GREAT mood! I didn't even realize the connection until my last post.

 

I know I've said this before, but I don't know if you've read it. But you have to understand that I went 12+ years of thinking of myself as unlovable and undesirable, which was why I stayed in a loveless relationship for so long. Worse, I went that long without ever really connecting with anyone on an emotional level; friends, sure, but nothing deeper. And I certainly never found myself attracted to anyone physically! So I've been convinced for the majority of my life that I'm destined to live a life without love or any real emotion at all.

 

So, short lived or not, this relationship was a very big deal to me. Not just because it was so intense, but also because, practically, I can't expect to have that type of relationship again anytime soon. If ever.

 

The break up is still a pretty fresh wound, of course, but it doesn't help that something happens at least once a week to reopen the scar. Two weeks ago, she messaged me unexpectedly; last week, the owner of the restaurant brings her up and asks my opinion about re-hiring her (obviously thinking it's going to make me happy). It's like, I can never get her out of my mind, because as soon as I do, the Universe does something to bring her back again.

 

At the very least, though, posting and analyzing my own thoughts have been pretty therapeutic for me. Like the recent parallel of Anna to my childhood; I've learned something about myself this morning, and that knowledge may help me to rationalize future relationships. So even if I never see Anna again, just talking all of this out is helpful

[SoulTaker]

CS, as I mentioned earlier, if she continues to be in contact with you, then she's using you for emotional support (escapism from her situation). It's great for her, but bad for you since it prevents you from moving on and meeting someone who is available.

 

You won't be moving forward with your life, but mostly stuck in quicksand.

[csdude55]

She hasn't been back in touch with me, so this is all semantics, but...

 

When I was talking with Anna before, it was in part to give me the courage to leave a loveless relationship. Knowing that someone still loved me helped me have the strength to move on.

 

So while any future contact from her may be using me for emotional support, how do I know that she isn't also using me to gain enough courage to leave?

 

You're right, though, I'm totally stuck in quicksand right now. What I pray happens is that she and I have the ability to be in a real relationship, without complications of either ex, for at least several months. If it works out, then great! But if not, at least I'll have closure. Right now, her leaving it at "I really want to be with you, but can't" makes it impossible for me to move on, emotionally. I'm going to compare every future GF with the fantasy of Anna instead of the reality.

[LuxeGirl]

It's not easy to hear and not easy to digest. But her reaching out to you is all about her, not you. You're filling a space that this other guy isn't; and while that might momentarily feel good, it's really not. The more you respond and engage with her, your heart won't be healing enough to move on and be available for someone else to come into your life. Someone that's warm and beautiful and will be just as crazy about you as you are about them. She might not consciously realize what she's doing and why she's doing it, but it truly is selfish on her part to try to come back and keep you hanging onto her.

 

I know it feels like you'll forever compare them to her, and you may for a while, but eventually that will fade. I promise you, it will. But you can't let it fade if you're continuously in contact with her. Maybe at some point you'll have healed well enough to have her in your life as a friend, or maybe things might not work out with the father of her children, but you really can't waste your life pinning your hopes to a star that might never shine.

 

You are NO ONE's backup plan. You deserve better than that.

[csdude55]

You are NO ONE's backup plan. You deserve better than that.

 

Not to be too self deprecating here, but... how can you be so sure that I do deserve better?

 

If I'm going to be entirely honest (and I have been so far), I absolutely hate myself and everything about me. I've caused nothing but pain and suffering for everyone I've met, and the more someone loves me, the more I inevitably hurt them. It's not intentional, but it still happens. I can't think of one time where someone was better off for having known me.

 

So no, I honestly don't think that I do deserve any better than that.

 

That's why I'm considering going back to my ex, the LTR. She's 40 years old now, jobless (because of me), and overweight (because of me), so the odds of her finding a new, more compatible husband are pretty slim. And at 40, she's past the point where she can safely have a family. Maybe the one decent thing I can do in life is take her back, and love her the best that I can. Maybe that's the best that I deserve; a moderately happy, but loveless relationship. Maybe I should just be grateful for the short period of love that I felt, and recognize that now it's time for me to grow up.

 

Or maybe several days in a row with no contact from any friends or family just has me depressed.

[LuxeGirl]

Wow... honey.... I don't know all the details but it sounds like there's a whole lot going on here that doesn't have anything to do with the relationship itself. Firstly, I find it hard to believe that she's overweight and jobless because of you... Unless you went to her work and acted a fool bad enough to get her fired and held a gun to her head while she scarfed box after box of Ho Ho's. Truthfully, it doesn't sound like you're ready to get into any sort of relationship now until you work through the issues of WHY you hate yourself so much. How can you expect someone else to love you when you don't even find the goodness in yourself?

 

And the best you deserve is love. Someone that makes you happy (even though that's NOT their responsibility; your own happiness is totally on you) and to have someone love you as much as you love them. THAT's how I know you deserve better. Because that's what everyone deserves.

 

I know I sound like a New Age hippie or something but it really comes down to that. I think instead of focusing outwardly on what's going on with her, you need to turn your focus inward to find out what's going on with you... Lots of love.

[Rosti87]

You have grown on me on this forum. I think you are sincere, if sometimes misguided. But you should NEVER shortchange yourself like this.

[csdude55]

Wow... honey.... I don't know all the details but it sounds like there's a whole lot going on here that doesn't have anything to do with the relationship itself. Firstly, I find it hard to believe that she's overweight and jobless because of you... Unless you went to her work and acted a fool bad enough to get her fired and held a gun to her head while she scarfed box after box of Ho Ho's.

 

I really wish it were that simple.

 

You see, I've been self employed since I was 19, and started my current business when I was 26. It took off a lot faster than expected, and within about a year I got to a point where I needed an employee, but couldn't afford one. She ended up quitting her job so that she could take on the role of office manager for the business. For the last 7 or 8 years, this has been her job: working for me.

 

She's been applying for jobs for several years, but hasn't had any offers.

 

So I do have to take full responsibility for her being jobless. I did encourage her to quit her job, and I can't very well expect her to continue working for me now.

 

I also have to take at least some responsibility for her weight gain. I'm the one that insists on eating out regularly, not only for business purposes, but also because going out to eat is really my only "fun" time. Granted, I'm not forcing food down her throat or anything, and never forced her to choose pasta over fish, but I'm definitely the one putting the temptation in front of her.

 

And clearly, I have to take responsibility for her sacrificing her youth on a man that doesn't love her. Just last year, she said that she wanted to break up as soon as she got a job offer, and I'm the one that talked her in to abandoning that plan... only to do it myself a year later, when she was less prepared emotionally.

 

I know that I didn't go in to this with any intention of hurting her, but when you read all of the facts, I'm just an evil, horrible person.

 

 

Truthfully, it doesn't sound like you're ready to get into any sort of relationship now until you work through the issues of WHY you hate yourself so much. How can you expect someone else to love you when you don't even find the goodness in yourself?

 

And the best you deserve is love. Someone that makes you happy (even though that's NOT their responsibility; your own happiness is totally on you) and to have someone love you as much as you love them. THAT's how I know you deserve better. Because that's what everyone deserves.

 

I know I sound like a New Age hippie or something but it really comes down to that. I think instead of focusing outwardly on what's going on with her, you need to turn your focus inward to find out what's going on with you... Lots of love.

 

You really have no idea, Luxe, about the depression I've been in for years. The constant inner turmoil about being in a loveless relationship, the hatred of myself for not having the courage to move on, the fear of never feeling "ready" to have a family. The guilt I've felt for putting my GF in this horrible position for so long. The recognition that women I like simply aren't interested in me. And the knowledge that my "friends" are just friends because of what I do, and that none of them really like me as a person. It's an extremely lonely existence.

 

And I've only told you about the one person. I haven't even mentioned the hatred my family harbors towards me, for reasons that I don't even understand. It wasn't that long ago that my mom (who has stage 4 COPD, and probably less than a year to live) told me that when she's on her deathbed, she doesn't want me to be there.

 

Even Anna is a good example. If not for me, she might not have left the father of her children in the first place, and may be in a much better relationship with him right now. I'm sitting here praying that she's miserable and eventually comes back to me, but if I was a decent person at all then I'd be praying that her boyfriend change and become the perfect husband for her.

 

For as long as I can remember, I've toyed with the idea of death, and how me being gone would make so many people's lives better. Not exactly suicidal, but just thinking about the world if I were gone. For years, I've held a $1 million life insurance policy, and written up paperwork to make sure the right people inherit my things... all just in case I "accidentally" drive head on in to a tractor and trailer. I often think about how my death could benefit so many people, where my life couldn't.

 

The only time in my life that I can even remember where I went to bed not fantasizing about my death was the short period I was with Anna. I was truly happy, instead of just faking it. It's not about putting her on a pedestal or anything like that; it was the simple fact that, for the first time in my life, I felt like I was actually an asset to someone. That here was a woman, and even her children, that would actually be better off with me in their lives, both physically and emotionally.

 

So you have to understand, it's not that I just want Anna back or anything as simple as that. I want to feel the love I felt for Anna, and I want to feel loved the way I thought Anna loved me. I want to feel like I'm important to someone, not just because I'm paying the bills, but because their life would honestly suck without me in it. And that's what I've just about given up on. I've had that feeling once in 39 years... what are the odds of it happening a second time?

[weathergirl]

csdude...have you ever considered volunteering? Helping others less fortunate (or just helping and giving back in general) is one of the most unselfish things one could do; not only does it benefit the people you're helping and giving too...but when you give of yourself, your time, your energy, it will make YOU feel great about yourself too and is great way to raise one's own self-esteem!

 

I am not talking about giving money to charities, although that's commendable, I am talking about giving up some of your own personal time and energy...in order to help and benefit someone else or a group.

 

Volunteer at a soup kitchen, help out at a local shelter, become an advocate for the homeless...there are so many things you could do to give back.

 

You think the world (or people in your life) would be better off with you gone? Then start doing things and behaving in ways that *would* bring joy to and benefit their lives! Volunteering unselfishly is a great way to do that.

 

And when you see the joy it brings to people, just knowing you're there to HELP, because you care, trust me there is no greater feeling in the world!! It will make you feel great about yourself, cause you to love yourself more, and the more you give, the more you help, the more joy you bring to people's lives, the more those good feelings about yourself will increase...raising your self esteem to levels you never thought were possible.

 

And when your self esteem is high...the energy you're exuding will draw and attract people "to" you (consistently and permanently) instead of what you said is happening now..which is the exact opposite.

 

I dunno it sure beats sitting around dwelling on all those negative feelings you're having -- that you will never find love again, that you're a horrible, unloveable person that no one wants around, etc. Don't you agree?

 

Something to think about anyway...IMHO.

[csdude55]

I apologize for throwing myself the pity party. Weekends have just been particularly hard for me. That's the time when I recognize just how alone I really am in the world.

 

csdude...have you ever considered volunteering? Helping others less fortunate (or just helping and giving back in general) is one of the most unselfish things one could do; not only does it benefit the people you're helping and giving too...but when you give of yourself, your time, your energy, it will make YOU feel great about yourself too and is great way to raise one's own self-esteem!

 

I am not talking about giving money to charities, although that's commendable, I am talking about giving up some of your own personal time and energy...in order to help and benefit someone else or a group.

 

There's not a local soup kitchen (we don't really have a homeless problem here), but I have volunteered at a food bank for years. We deliver food to the permanently disabled and elderly each week, so I guess it's sort of like a Meals on Wheels program.

 

In fact, my company requires all full time employees to volunteer at the non profit organization of their choice for at least 1 hour a week. They do this while on the clock, so it's not an unreasonable demand.

 

This is going to sound like I'm making excuses, but I'm really not. One thing I've realized is that when I show up to help, everybody sort of... panics. The volunteers get nervous because they have this perception that I'm important, so they make a bigger effort to look busy which causes them to make more mistakes. People want to come up to me and talk, so it's a distraction, and my presence alone messes up the dynamic of the work flow. I'm sure we've all experienced it: when the "boss" is there, everybody rushes around and tries to look busy.

 

I've been told by more than one organization, in very friendly ways, that they would rather I just write them a check.

 

You have to understand that I'm well known locally, and I sit on several boards and committees. And I guess that, in real life, I have a pretty dominant attitude; I'm generally focused and efficient, so I have no problem pointing people towards their task and getting them to work. So even when I just volunteer, I'm seen as the boss.

 

 

You think the world (or people in your life) would be better off with you gone?

 

I don't deny that I've built ideas and systems that help people, mostly through my business ventures. I've created jobs, I've developed concepts for non profits to help increase their revenue and volunteer base, I've raised and contributed a lot of money for local charities... these are all good things.

 

But me, as a person? No real value at all. At least, not anymore. I could die tonight, and in the morning a new person would take over the business, and those same systems would exist. My ex (the LTR) would inherit a house and a ton of money to be supported for life. Those two people (my ex and the new CEO) would notice that I'm gone, and might even be a little sad, but they'd get over that pretty quickly. In the end, their lives would be infinitely better with me gone.

 

The only entity I can think of that wouldn't be better off without me is my dog.

[luxurylover]

 

That's why I'm considering going back to my ex, the LTR. She's 40 years old now, jobless (because of me), and overweight (because of me), so the odds of her finding a new, more compatible husband are pretty slim. And at 40, she's past the point where she can safely have a family. Maybe the one decent thing I can do in life is take her back, and love her the best that I can. Maybe that's the best that I deserve; a moderately happy, but loveless relationship

 

so youre considering going back to her as a "pity relationship" ? pity for her as well as yourself. if that's the reason for going back you DEFINITELY wouldnt be doing her a favor. and eventually once your mood improved you'd be looking for ,....or at least considering...a way out. i also agree with another poster that you didnt force her or cause those things (losing job, weight gain) in her life to happen. Please stop being hard on yourself like this, we all make mistakes, we all f*** up , no one's perfect. and as another poster also said, work on urself first b4 entering into another relationship with anyone. possibly even consider counseling as it sounds like youre suffering from some severe depression. if not i fear any relationship you enter into will have crucial problems because of your own inner issues that youll project onto that person and the relationship.

[pippy longstocking]

hiya darling ...I hate to see you go down this road ..

 

you cannot blame yourself for EVERYTHING darling , you are a good kind man ... but you know my feelings on going back to the ex ..(not anna I am talking about the wife)

 

you cannot be held responsible for everything .. even her weight gain ..sorry this isn't much of an enlightening post , but I majust out my bed ..."yawn" so cant gather too many thoughts or my head will explode ..

 

please do no get back with the ex while you are in this mood ok ..you need to plough through it all a bit more .