Lack of Physical Affection & Physical Intimacy

[WeeToad]

Hello, I am a heterosexual woman.

 

Wondering if anyone else has been / is going through the same thing or something similar, and if anyone has any insight, input or advice.

 

Growing up my father was an abusive alcoholic and my mother was a cold and distant sort who would randomly run away at times. There was very minimal physical or verbal affection in the household, and it was an all around rather unhealthy environment and childhood.

 

I made my first friend when I was 15, will call her Donna.

 

Donna was the first human I ever gave and received physical affection to/from. We hugged, held hands, cuddled, traded shoulder massages, etc. A lot of peers got the wrong idea about the two of us, and later on she did turn out to be bisexual, but for me it was just a very novel and wonderful experience as far being physically comfortable and affectionate with someone. I spent a ton of time with her the half-year we lived near each other and felt very strongly for her as a companion.

 

Fast-forward to my first relationship at age 18, will call him Max.

 

Max was a hardcore cuddler. We were together for almost a year, and although we didn't have intercourse, we shared a ton of physical affection and lighter forms of physical intimacy. We cuddled, massaged and generally touched each other all the time, and I loved it. I think our body language always showed this mutual need for physical affection, too. I recall we always sat very close to each other and touched (not inappropriately) each other a lot even in public. Our relationship ended when he hung himself.

 

SO I spent some time in therapy after that, and although I think I accomplished a lot of self-work, I definitely don't think I worked out everything.

 

Started dating someone else when I was almost 20. It was more of a desperation thing (just being honest) and it turned into an unhealthy relationship that I didn't let go for about 2.5 years. Will call this one Sam.

 

Sam was not physically affectionate at all, and he had almost no sexual interest in me. He preferred to watch pornography and masturbate. If I tried to initiate (anything, not just sex) he would always almost reject me, and on the rare occasion he didn't, he'd act like it was some sort of obligation. We eventually had fights about it, and then the really ugly stuff would come out, like how I just wasn't attractive enough, or I didn't initiate things the right way, or some other reason that was my fault. So that was about 3 years of hell bending over backwards trying to earn physical affection and/or his sexual interest. It was very depressing and often left me in a bad place mentally.

 

After that relationship ended, I made myself not try dating again for at least a year. This turned into three years, during which I did a lot more self-work. I feel that I have come a long way in understanding myself and avoiding self-harmful pitfalls on a subconscious level.

 

So now I'll be 26 in some months, and I have started dating someone else for a while now. Will call this one Tom.

 

So Tom and I get along pretty well and have quite a bit in common. He's actually kind and respectful and seems sane, which at first was a little intimidating, but I made myself stick with it and resist old codependency pitfalls. I've been getting more comfortable with him as time goes on, and in most regards I've really been enjoying our time spent together.

 

Except for this one thing: He's hardly physically affectionate at all.

 

At first I was very physically affectionate with him, and he seemed to really enjoy it, but he hardly reciprocated it at all. So my physical affection towards him has been dwindling, and he seems to take it as a sign that something is wrong, because he will ask me if I'm okay a few different times each day/night we spend together. I always say yes. Once in a while I will give him a massage or hug on him or something to see if I can get him to reciprocate, but rarely to any avail.

 

I've spoken up a bit a few times. I told him once about something that he did that I really liked, explained that I loved it. He has never done it again once since I said I liked it. Then, he usually would not hug me or anything, but just quickly tickle me or something. I told him (in a light-hearted but kind of serious way) that I would strongly prefer being hugged or something like I see other couples do. So now once or twice when we hang out, he begrudgingly gives me a quick, awkward hug. So maybe he's trying, but it still feels weird.

 

When it comes to sexual stuff, we've only had two fool-arounds, both of which I initiated and carried onward. He definitely seemed to enjoy it, but he won't initiate anything himself, ever. But I have tried giving him some very clear signs, like for example sitting on his bed butt-naked after getting out of the shower. He had no reaction at all and started showing me music videos.

 

On the nights when I sleep over, initially I'd make an obvious effort to cuddle with him and touch him, but now that I have stopped, we will just lay there like two logs, and he'll fall asleep.

 

So I'm having a tough time and feeling some of my old 'crazies' coming back. Like the paranoid feeling that he's cheating on me, or that I'm too ugly, or whatever. On top of my unusually strong desire for physical affection / intimacy.

 

There is also very little verbal affection coming from him to make me feel better. He never says anything about me being attractive or him wanting to be intimate with me. I make comments at least a few times each time we hang out about enjoying touching him, thinking he is attractive and trying to talk him into trying stuff with me, like a shared shower. Although, I usually do it in a very light-hearted tone, because getting rejected is tough for me. He's pretty unresponsive.

 

Everything else about the relationship has been going great, but for me, this one thing feels like a huge thing, and leaves me wondering if I can go through another relationship lacking physical affection / intimacy without losing my mind all over again. I also have a very hard time just asking for what I want, because I used to have to beg for it to no avail in my last relationship. So now it's very hard for me to ask, and the two times I have tried communicating in a straightforward way already, did not go so well.

 

Can anyone relate? Just got home from another couple of days spent together, feeling like platonic friends and feeling depressed falling asleep both nights. But I really like this guy otherwise. Ugh.

[mhowe]

Have you come out yet?

[WeeToad]

Have you come out yet?

 

What do you mean?

[mhowe]

The only true intimacy for you has been with a woman.

All of your male relationships have never reached that level.

Don't you see that?

[byanilla]

WeeToad, it's great that you're being so self-aware of yourself and your needs. You mentioned your past about how you had no physical intimacy throughout your childhood, so the absence of it created an intense need for physical touch in the present. You also mentioned how the first two relationships fed your physical cravings, and they would have been perfect if Donna hadn't been bisexual and if Max hadn't committed suicide. (I am truly sorry about that).

Sam had scarred you from being fearful for asking more of what you want, and what you want is to satisfy your need for physical intimacy. It seems like your relationship with Tom is riding smoothly except for one pitfall: little physical affection. You mentioned that you already attempted asking for it--twice--and they did not go so well.

 

What do you value in your relationship with Tom?

[byanilla]

The only true intimacy for you has been with a woman.

All of your male relationships have never reached that level.

Don't you see that?

 

Correlation does not equal causation.

[mhowe]

Correlation does not equal causation.

 

Intimacy is not calculus.

[byanilla]

Intimacy is not calculus.

 

It's actually statistics. Regardless, she experienced no intimacy issues with Max until he hung himself.

 

"Max was a hardcore cuddler. We were together for almost a year, and although we didn't have intercourse, we shared a ton of physical affection and lighter forms of physical intimacy. We cuddled, massaged and generally touched each other all the time, and I loved it. I think our body language always showed this mutual need for physical affection, too. I recall we always sat very close to each other and touched (not inappropriately) each other a lot even in public. Our relationship ended when he hung himself." - WeeToad

 

In addition, WeeToad did not mention any indications of physical attraction towards Donna. She did mention physical attraction towards Max, Sam, and Tom.

[WeeToad]

The only true intimacy for you has been with a woman.

All of your male relationships have never reached that level.

Don't you see that?

 

Well I did give that some thought years ago, but I came to the conclusion (and even with some experimentation using pornography) that I am heterosexual. Donna felt very 'safe' to me at that age, probably because she was female and I had an abusive father, but I never had a desire to kiss her or anything otherwise sexual. Whereas, on the other side of the coin, even though Sam was a terrible boyfriend in numerous ways, I was indeed sexually attracted to him (which frankly just made it all the more frustrating). The reason Max and I never had intercourse was because I had vaginismus at the time, but thankfully was diagnosed and overcame it during the therapy following his death.

[WeeToad]

WeeToad, it's great that you're being so self-aware of yourself and your needs. You mentioned your past about how you had no physical intimacy throughout your childhood, so the absence of it created an intense need for physical touch in the present. You also mentioned how the first two relationships fed your physical cravings, and they would have been perfect if Donna hadn't been bisexual and if Max hadn't committed suicide. (I am truly sorry about that).

Sam had scarred you from being fearful for asking more of what you want, and what you want is to satisfy your need for physical intimacy. It seems like your relationship with Tom is riding smoothly except for one pitfall: little physical affection. You mentioned that you already attempted asking for it--twice--and they did not go so well.

 

What do you value in your relationship with Tom?

 

We have a lot in common, we laugh together, he is respectful to me, I feel safe around him (big one for me), and we have the same moral values (another big one). I just don't know how to handle this one issue. I've tried positive reinforcement, as well as outright asking for what I want. It's hard for me because I am hyper-sensitive to rejection. I'm not ready to jump ship just yet, but I do question whether or not I can personally (due to my past and issues) make it work. The longer I wait, the worse it will be if I do bail over this. And I also wonder if there are things I haven't tried yet.

[mhowe]

Well...then I stand "corrected".

[byanilla]

We have a lot in common, we laugh together, he is respectful to me, I feel safe around him (big one for me), and we have the same moral values (another big one). I just don't know how to handle this one issue. I've tried positive reinforcement, as well as outright asking for what I want. It's hard for me because I am hyper-sensitive to rejection. I'm not ready to jump ship just yet, but I do question whether or not I can personally (due to my past and issues) make it work. The longer I wait, the worse it will be if I do bail over this. And I also wonder if there are things I haven't tried yet.

 

What things have you thought about that you haven't tried yet but wanted to? Also, it sounds like your relationship with Tom is a positive one! It just sounds like the obstacle right now is your need for physical affection because it brings you comfort. What about the comfort is important to you?

[mhowe]

Or what is it in Toms past that prevents him from showing/sharing a physical connection?

[MisUnderstood9]

Or what is it in Toms past that prevents him from showing/sharing a physical connection?

 

This was my thought also.

[WeeToad]

I am honestly not sure exactly what it is about being physically intimate and affectionate that is so important to me. I think it is possible that it is more so the case that a lack of physical intimacy and affection feels so terrible to me, and I simply interpret it backwards. When he shows no interest in being sexual, I feel very rejected and insecure. When he doesn't give or reciprocate non-sexual physical affection, like cuddling or massaging or hugging, it makes me feel very lonely and sort of depressed. I feel extremely happy (I know, not super articulate, sorry) when I do get a small piece of physical affection.

 

Tom claims to be sexually inexperienced, that he has dated many girls since he was a teenager but that none of them lasted very long, and that he has only had sex once. He did act a little skittish and embarrassed at first when I would initiate anything physical, but then he got much better when he seemed to be 'used' to me, so to speak.

 

I just noticed that he hardly reciprocated or initiated, even with positive reinforcement or me making my desires clear, so I started slowly backing off, secretly hoping that he might give chase a bit. But he didn't. Now when we hang out, we might as well be strictly platonic friends.

 

This last time we spent a couple days together, I tried initiating again. I swallowed my pride (and gosh darn there is a lot of it, I admit) and tried cuddling him and gave him a leg massage. No response. When we climbed into bed, he laid on top of the blanket and got himself a different blanket, so that I couldn't even attempt to cuddle him.

 

I have tried using various pieces of advice I've scoured from the internet, like reinforcing to him that I find him attractive, getting very flirty (to the point I feel almost silly), teasingly nagging him to make it clear that I want it, backing off a bit to let him make a move, etc.

 

My mind is totally boggled at this point. The two times we fooled around, he definitely was aroused, and the second time I gave him an orgasm. So at least I know he's not a case of closeted confusion. But without me practically assaulting him, sexual intimacy does not happen at all.

 

Then a couple weeks ago I noticed he now has a password lock on his cell phone, and I just started spiraling into old crazy hurts from my last relationship, getting all paranoid and depressed about the whole thing. So I figured I'd give the internet another browse in trying to figure out what my next move is.

 

Sometimes I feel like he messes with me, which makes it worse. Like we recently had the place all to ourselves while the roomies were out of town. He mentioned that we would have it all to ourselves a few different times, and mentioned a roommate cracking a joke about "no sex all over the house". I took this all as signs and got very excited about it. I primped and preened and even bought a few condoms just in case. Then he didn't touch me the WHOLE time, at all, until the very end when he probably sensed that I was feeling not so awesome, and touched my shoulder a little bit. I kept taking off my clothes, getting really close to him, took a shower, kissed him (which felt more like a surprise attack), etc.

 

I want some kind of plan for the next time we spend a couple days together, because if I let this fester in my head, I will probably get all loony, which I would like to avoid, heh.

[WeeToad]

The only other thing I can think of is a possible premature ejaculation issue. When I gave him oral, he had an orgasm after about 12 seconds, which I thought was kind of fast, but I could be wrong. I am not super experienced, myself. I was pleasuring him, and suddenly he said, "Sorry," which confused me for a moment. I asked him what was wrong, and he didn't say anything. Then I noticed, and sounded a little surprised and asked if he had finished. He said yes and said that was why he had apologized and laughed a little bit in a nervous manner. I reassured him that it was fine and not to worry about it, and reassured him that I enjoyed making him feel good and that was all that mattered to me. I suppose this could be part of the issue? I am not sure, though. He's already so physically distant, that I'd be terrified to open up with, "Do you have PE?"

[Iggles]

He doesn't seem sexually interested in you.

 

For all you share in common, you'd be better off as friends. Physical affection and sex are an important aspect of romantic relationships. He may be inexperienced, but even inexperienced guys who get a girlfriend will show interest in sex -- that's how they gain experience!

 

Dating & relationships can be confusing but know this: your needs are not unreasonable. They should be met. You won't be happy until you're with a guy who you share the same moral values, makes you feel safe, AND loves to kiss, cuddle, hug, and makes love to you often.

 

Being with "Sam" did a lot a damage following a difficult childhood and tragedy in your adolescence (sorry for you loss regarding Max ). He invalidated your feelings because of his own issues. It's likely you will always feel a pull towards guys with some amount of psychological baggage of their own. Wounded birds. But Tom simply isn't a good fit for you. It's better to date someone without trying to change them to become what you desperately them to be in order to be happy.

 

Does that make sense?

[WeeToad]

Yes it does. Thanks.

[byanilla]

I'm very bothered by the fact that he keeps dodging you in general. Have you asked him how he feels about you? Maybe he'll provide an honest answer.

[WeeToad]

I'm very bothered by the fact that he keeps dodging you in general. Have you asked him how he feels about you? Maybe he'll provide an honest answer.

 

I haven't asked him outright, no, but he seems to enjoy my company.

 

He seems to like what he knows of me so far. We have a ton in common, so his spoken input about me has mostly been pleasantly regarding the things we find out we share.

 

He texts me almost every night/day that we don't see each other and/or responds quickly to any text I send him. He always asks me if I've had a good time after we finish 2-3 days together, like he's afraid I didn't. He cracks a lot of jokes about how I must be really bored when I'm with him, or jokingly impersonates me being mad at him or thinking he is stupid, or some other form of self-deprecating humor. This part actually bothers me quite a bit, and I always find myself insisting that I do enjoy time with him, that he is not stupid, that I am not mad at him, etc. A couple weeks ago he thought I was really mad at him and that I was going to break up with him, and the only reason he thought this is because I fell asleep before he did (a rare occurrence, because he usually falls asleep within minutes, and it takes me about an hour). He over-analyzed the crap out of it until the next morning he was afraid to talk to me. I was baffled and felt terrible. I mean as I mentioned earlier he even apologized to me because he had an orgasm really fast, but I don't see why that would require an apology at all. It's not something I would ever get upset about, let alone mad.

 

I think he might have very low self-esteem, but I'm not a therapist or psychologist by any means. But I have tried very hard to reassure him frequently in various ways about me finding him attractive, funny, smart, etc and having confidence in him in general.

 

Slowly but surely he seems to be trusting me at my word more easily, and not fretting as much. Really the only reason I am ever unhappy is because he hardly ever touches me at all, even though I have made it clear that I want him to. But I have never made it out to be an 'issue' and he seems hardly aware that it is one for me. I've just been trying to find (and use) every trick in the book to get him to chill out and make out. But nothing is working so far.

[byanilla]

I think he may have some intimacy issues, but I am by no means a psychologist as well. Do you know what he values in a relationship? Because it sounds like everything in your relationship with Tom is going well except that Tom is sensitive to being neglected. (You falling asleep on accident and his over-analysis; the way he checks up on you and provides attention and care to you) I think he values being cared for and not being abandoned. You said that he might have low self-esteem which is just a speculation, but his actions prove that he might just have trust issues.

 

Ask him what he values in relationships. Maybe in order for him to become physically intimate, he needs that trust first.

[WeeToad]

I think you might be right, byanilla. Whatever the issue(s) might be, we are hanging out tomorrow and spending a couple days together. I am going to see what happens the first day/night, and if it is the same thing as usual, then I am going to (powers that be help me) try talking to him about it. Right now I'm leaning towards approaching the topic in an apologetic way, asking if I accidentally made him uncomfortable, because I've noticed X, Y and Z. That way hopefully the conversation won't be intimidating for him at all.

[byanilla]

I think you might be right, byanilla. Whatever the issue(s) might be, we are hanging out tomorrow and spending a couple days together. I am going to see what happens the first day/night, and if it is the same thing as usual, then I am going to (powers that be help me) try talking to him about it. Right now I'm leaning towards approaching the topic in an apologetic way, asking if I accidentally made him uncomfortable, because I've noticed X, Y and Z. That way hopefully the conversation won't be intimidating for him at all.

 

That sounds like a pragmatic plan. Good luck with it. Please do tell what the outcome is!

[WeeToad]

I think I'm just gonna call this one quits in the near future, might pop up in the break up forum. He has a lot of quirks with which I'm really patient and laid back, and I know I have a lot of my own quirks, but this particular clash of quirks is just too much for me, I guess.

 

Monday I had a huge job promotion that I had been stressing over really bad and wasn't sure if I was going to get. I got it and was so relieved and happy. He didn't ask me about it at all. Everything winds up being about him, and for the first time it kind of irked me. We spent the night gaming and then went to bed without any touching at all. I was so exhausted from the day work-wise that I passed out right along with him instead of lingering awake for a while.

 

He woke me up at like 3 in the morning, just lying really close to me and wide awake. I reached out and started lightly massaging on him, and he just laid there enjoying it. After a while I slowly withdrew my hand to see what would happen. He didn't touch me at all, got up and ate some food, flipped on the lights (blinding me in my sleepy stupor) and started showing me clips from a movie. I was honestly just like what the hell and pulled the blanket over my head and went back to sleep.

 

The next day was spent mostly talking about the little annoyances in his life and watching him play video games, while I just sat on the bed wondering how I was going to work up the nerve to start this conversation. It was too hard for me in the end, and I just wound up making a light joke about how we never even make out or anything. He seemed to just ignore it. Then I gave up and spent the rest of the evening on my laptop with my headphones on while he kept gaming.

 

We went to bed. I laid facing him, and he laid facing the ceiling with a different blanket. And I just didn't feel up to trying anything, not even a talk. I just rolled over after a while to face the wall and we both fell asleep. Maybe if I hadn't been through what I have in my last relationship, then I'd be able to be more assertive and mature about this. Like I said, I have a lot of patience and nonchalance for his other quirks. But this particular one is just a really tough one for me.

 

I don't want to have to ask for affection. I feel like I shouldn't have to ask. I don't want to spend another three years trying to figure someone out, try different things, have worthless talks and feel rejected and like a failure all the time. I don't want to experience any of that ever again. I don't want another lonely, rubik's cube relationship, where I feel like I have a friend and am not allowed to have a lover.

 

And I start thinking about how he knows I like affection and intimacy because I told him and showed him, and he seemed to enjoy it, so what the hell. It makes me think of how my ex used it as a power trip thing. And it just gets all messed up and complicated in my head.

 

Thinking maybe I just can't go another round with the same issue, even if the reasons are different. Idunno.

 

I'm alone in the apartment for a while now, and he'll be dropping me off at my place later tonight. Part of me feels like not giving him a kiss goodbye (which I have always done since the third date), and I know (being honest with myself) that it's an immature, spiteful thing. And when I'm getting to that point, it's red flag central already.

 

Bah. Wondering if a friendship could survive, though. We make great friends. I am just more than halfway to 30 and have been single for over 3 years now. I want a relationship, in addition to friends. Can't help it.

[WeeToad]

I think it honestly boils down to me worrying that he doesn't find me attractive at all. Like he seems to enjoy my company, and we get along well, and he seems to care about me. And I enjoy his company a lot, and I care about him, but I am also attracted to him and want to be physically affectionate and intimate with him. And I just think more and more that it's unrequited. And I think that combined with my childhood and my last relationship, it just stings too much for me. I think I'm making mountains out of molehills, but I also think it's a part of who I am and always be, so I can't just tell myself to let it go, either. And it makes me angry to think that someone wouldn't just tell me that they're not attracted to me and instead string me along. Because last time it just about killed me inside. It makes me start thinking about Max and feeling all 'emo' and such. Oh well.