Understanding the Psychology of Bullies - and how to deal with them

[Silverbirch]

I recently started having short-term counselling (10 sessions) with a psychologist for chronic anxiety. I had the second session yesterday and the psychologist (who I seem to like and have a rapport with) believes that a major cause of my anxiety has been that I have not yet adequately learnt how to manage bullying, especially in the workplace. The organisation (and industry) I work in is notorious for bullying - at all levels. In the last 3 months, 2 people who were very well-known for their bullying, with years of complaints made against them, were recently stood down. At least one of them is trying to take actions to be re-instated. Management do however, have evidence of other sackable offences against her and I think it is unlikely she will have a genuine case for re-instatement.

 

Given the time it takes and the rarity of bullies having their behaviour changed or even being sacked, it's imperative, at least for me to learn how to manage bullies assertively. As the psychologist points out, often, no matter what you do, you will never be able to change the bully. He is encouraging me for several reasons to look elsewhere for employment, but of course, no matter where we work or how our lives are, at various points in life, we come up against bullies who can make our lives difficult.

 

Anyway, wondering if other people might like to share their experiences, especially positive ones. M (my psychologist) says how important it is to stay calm and not become flustered by the bully. If they start yelling at you, you need to say: "It's difficult to understand you when you yell. Please stop yelling and I will be able to listen to what you are saying." He also talked about appropriate times to just walk away and say something like: "I can't talk to you right now. I'll wait for when you can talk calmly to me."

 

Anyway, more to come from me as I learn more and once again, I welcome other peoples postings on this matter.

[Silverbirch]

I found this link to what looks like many good articles on bullying from "Psychology Today" so I'll go over and read them.

 

link removed

[Notbad]

I used to have a bully in my freshman year of high school, he feed off of attention from others and my reactions. As soon as I stopped reacting and lead others to hate him he was nothing more than a lost puppy

[Silverbirch]

I'm pleased that had a good result. I get to see a lot of covert bullying to in the workplace - especially atm in staff meetings. The person who is supposed to be acting manager sides up with the bullies because I think she is partly scared of them and partly couldn't be bothered calling them out. We're meant to be getting a new manager soon so wondering how things will go. We had a regional manager come in and basically tell the bully to sit down and shut up, and put her in her place. Of course, the bully now bad-mouths that manager.

 

In the workplace, you see people undermine each other with sneaky bullying tactics. There tends to be cliques of friends who look out for each other and fill them in on what is going on behind their backs. It's a jungle.

[BellaDonna]

I strongly suggest this book link removed

 

It gives ton of really useful behavior tips for work. Many of these would be very effective for keeping bullies at bay and also carrying yourself in a way that makes others not mess with you.

 

For instance....you mentioned:

 

 

I get to see a lot of covert bullying to in the workplace - especially atm in staff meetings.

 

After reading that book I approach meetings much differently. First, I walk in exactly on time (not early). Second, I leave exactly when the meeting is scheduled to end and don't let others waste my time. Third,

when I sit down I spread out such that I take up some space. Fourth, I watch my body posture very carefully. Fifth, there is not one word that comes out of my mouth that is not very well thought out and framed very carefully.

 

There are so many good communication tips in that book.

 

I had a situation recently with a HUGE bully that is known for his horrible behavior in my company. He tried to get on a soapbox over e-mail, saying something he needed to do was not in his union contract. He flew off the handle and even personally attacked me (to be specific, he said I "reeked of arrogance" LOL) So I immediately requested a meeting with him and his union rep (I held him accountable for his hasty e-mail and now demanded he give some of his time to me). I walked into the meeting, wearing a black suit....knowing I'd be more formally dressed than he was, and took up a lot of space at the table. I placed his union's contract on my left side, closest to where he was sitting, so he could see that I had it. The contract was tabbed, highlighted, and had a ton of notes on it from me. Hi knew he didn't have a leg to stand on with his union claim.

 

Then I looked him square in the eye and said "Just to be clear, my expectation is that I will treated respectfully and professionally and communicated with in a mature manner by colleagues". He turned 30 shades of red, his right foot was shaking, and he changed his tone quickly. The meeting went very well after that.

 

I even asked the bully if he would serve on a committee I was convening. I told him "I'd like you to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem".

 

After the meeting was over the union rep (who is supposed to be on his side!) called the VP of my company to tell him how impressed he was with the way I handled the bully and stood up to him.

 

I think I could be his buddy now if he behaved.

 

Stand up to the bullies. But do it in a very matter of fact, nonemotional, calculated manner.

[BellaDonna]

how important it is to stay calm and not become flustered by the bully. If they start yelling at you, you need to say: "It's difficult to understand you when you yell. Please stop yelling and I will be able to listen to what you are saying."

 

It is indeed very important not to become flustered. I actuallty would tweak what your psychologist suggested you say. If someone yelled, I would say "It's difficult to understand you when you yell. I also will not tolerate being be yelled at. So let me know when you are ready to talk."

[Silverbirch]

Bella Donna, THANK YOU. This all sounds great and I'm going to find and order the book tonight. I'm sure it would be VERY helpful to me.

[grainsofrice]

Thx for sharing Silver. We all can benefit. I am usually piss off or put on non-smiley face. No one dare to bully me. I don't bully other either. I try to Smile more often.

[Silverbirch]

Thx for sharing Silver. We all can benefit. I am usually piss off or put on non-smiley face. No one dare to bully me. I don't bully other either. I try to Smile more often.

 

Thanks GrainsofRice. When I went to BellaDonna's link I saw a lot of good books there so I'm going to get some.

[Trinity11]

Good thread. I have never had many issues with bullying but I can actually 'feel' someones who is 'bigger than ben hur'-a big personality who always knows the right words to put someone down or someone who I just don't share good energy with. It is very important not to lose face with these people. It does get easier with age as you become more confident and see more worth in yourself but it only takes one person to make you feel like a teen again.

Bella Donna I could certainly put your story/advice away for the future. Very good.

[Silverbirch]

Hi Everyone,

Not going to have a chance to post for a while but wanted to say that since I posted, I watched these videos on Youtube which were very interesting. They actually used the term "Manipulators" rather than bullies and "Targets" as opposed to victims. If you google "Youtube Manipulators" you will likely see some interesting videos. There was one which I think was a workplace workshop by an American guy called "?Dan O'Connor" who gave some strategies of how to manage the "conversations" with bullies/manipulators.

 

Will be back as soon as I get a chance.

[amipushy]

I've done a lot of research on bullies in the workplace and 'link removed 'is the best wesite I have found.

 

Star here, you will be amazed how many sick and twisted people are around you in the workplace (no joke)

 

link removed

[Silverbirch]

Thank you so much. I will check it out. I am actually starting to look forward to the next staff meeting to see how some of the strategies might work, and I'm sort of enjoying the reading and learning.

 

I'm reluctant to be providing info online these days like my name and address and so I will order the book Bella Donna recommended from a bookshop here. I went in yesterday and bought 2 other books though. One of them was "Managing Difficult People". The other one is "Nice Girls Don't Get the Corner Office - 101 Things Women Do Wrong in the Workplace."

 

Funny thing, I had a hell of a day at work today and at home now vegging. I just got a text from a co-working urging me to apply for a promotion saying that if I apply for a more senior job which is going atm where I work, she will support the application and that she knows that I am popular with clients and their families and they will support it as well. I spent most of today speaking with people - clients,management and even police for legal information. I had a whole heap of paperwork ensuing from that and got it completed.

 

The bully came in today. Even though she was very rude to me, I didn't feel intimidated by her. I thought: "She's a big-mouth and a bully, but mostly, she's a dumb@rce. I will choose my battles carefully and I will pick my timing." I'm feeling happier and more confident. Thanks for the link.

[amipushy]

If you really want to get into the mind of the person who is bullying you, then you need to find out what they are saying about you behind your back. Whatever they are saying, is what they themselves are. If she/he is saying that you have some sort of mental disorder (although they may not be threatened enough by you yet so keep listening out for it, you will be able to tell because people will start looking at you and treating you in a different way), then leave the company as quickly as you can for obvious reasons.

 

"Projection

Bullies project their inadequacies, shortcomings, behaviours etc on to other people to avoid facing up to their inadequacy and doing something about it

(learning about oneself can be painful), and to distract and divert attention away from themselves and their inadequacies. Projection is achieved through blame, criticism and allegation; once you realise this, every criticism, allegation etc that the bully makes about their target is actually an admission or revelation about themselves. This knowledge can be used to perceive the bully's own misdemeanours; for instance, when the allegations are of financial or sexual impropriety, it is likely that the bully has committed these acts; when the bully makes an allegation of abuse (such allegations tend to be vague and non-specific), it is likely to be the bully who has committed the abuse. When the bully makes allegations of, say, "cowardice" or "negative attitude" it is the bully who is a coward or has a negative attitude.

It is a key identifying feature of a person with a personality disorder or psychopathic personality that, when called to account, they will accuse the person who is unmasking them of being the one with the personality disorder or psychopathic personality from which they (the bully) suffer."

 

After learning all I know about bullies, I am inclined to agree with your psychologist. Life is too short to be psychologically terrorized, even if you are getting paid for it. And to be honest if you think you can win against a person like that above, you are seriously kidding yourself and you should find another job.

[Silverbirch]

Hi Amipushy,

At this stage, mostly with me, the bully is fixated on trivial criticisms. She did make one false allegation against me and was caught out on it by a regional manager who put the bully in her place. The bully then went around trying to bad-mouth the regional manager.

 

The bully is by her own frequent admission computer illiterate, and I am wondering if she also has problems with basic literacy. The bully has told another staff member that she is considering retirement as she is finding it increasingly difficult to cope with the increasing demands to rely on and use information technology and computers. The bully, as well as all staff, have been offered many opportunities for training in infomation technology and computers but the bully has chosen not to take up this offer. The bully does not even have the most basic formal qualifications to undertake the work. The bully did at one time try to undertake such study but failed. . . . I think this particular bully might be on her way out.

[Silverbirch]

Hi Thanks Angel,

I had been to that site. I was shocked to read that in England, there were more nurses leaving the field than entering it, and this was believed to be mostly due to bullying and poor pay and conditions. It said that England had needed to recruit nurses from Australia and other countries because of this.

 

Something pretty awful happened over the weekend. I was out with my son and partner celebrating my birthday. I was on a day off and got an abusive phone call from the bully with her speaking to me aggressively about a serious matter at work which I had been mandated to report formally the day before and had talks with management about this and had followed managements instructions and directions. It related to a sackable matter concerning a casual worker who had been caught out by clients and other staff for commiting a serious offence offence involving neglect and possibly abuse of clients in care. .I felt myself become suddenly very angry and said loudly and gruffly:

" E X C U S E ME" She kept going at it and I told her it was not appropriate for her to call me and that she should call the manager. She started trying to back paddle saying "Oh, I'm not having a go at you."

 

When I got home and my visitors had left, I rang the on call manager and informed of the phone call and that I wished to take the appropriate actions to put a stop to her abusive behaviour which was offensive and not acceptable to me. The manager was very supportive and told me I needed to speak firstly with my immediate manager, and that if there was not a satisfactory outcome, I could then take the next step.

 

I spoke with my immediate manager today about it, and she tells me I need to ring the bully and organise to meet with her outside of work and speak with her and air any grievances. I do not feel 100% trusting of this manager either as she is only there is an acting capacity and is meant to be finishing up on the 19th. I told that manager that I was not prepared to meet alone with that woman because of her previous distortions and that I don't trust her. That manager has claimed she will join us. I don't feel good about it.

 

I told the manager that all I really want to say to this woman is that I expect to be treated with same respect she would expect others to give to her, and which most people would give to others, that failing to do so would be unacceptable to me and would result in me taking further actions.

 

I don't want to be this woman's chum. I don't want to speak with her at any time unless it is necessary to work. Sorry for repeating, but I no longer trust or respect her let alone like her.

 

Any advice? Thanks.

[BellaDonna]

I don't like how your manager suggested meeting "outside of work" . It makes it seem like it is a personal matter rather than a work-related matter. Outside of the walls of work, off the clock, the rules change, professionalism is not required, and the bully could fly off the handle.

 

I wouldn't trust the manager as far as I could throw her. Sounds off.

 

If you do meet, I would suggest that you do it directly following a work shift so you are all still in work mode. When you ask for the meeting, make sure you give it a clear time limit (i.e. 5:00-5:30pm) Be vague when you pose the meeting topic "Employee Communication". Keep away from any emotional language ( for instance if you say it is to "air grievances" that makes it sound like it's your own personal issue and already sets you up to appear weak or unbalanced.)

 

It's too bad the manager is making you arrange the meeting rather than acting like a manager and arranging it herself.

[Silverbirch]

Hi Bella Donna. Thanks for your post. Sorry I only just saw it as I've been putting in a lot of work hours and other things away from home.

 

I think all of your advice is good advice. Something unexpected has happened. I got to work with the bully when someone else was off sick. She was trying to be "super nice to me". She asked me if I wanted to speak with her about the events on the telephone. I was still very angry and said: "NO". Then she apologised for calling me on my day off and said she had just wanted to help the other person named on the incident report as they were very upset. She tried to get all chummy with me.

 

I didn't buy any of it as being genuine but that she has gotten wind of the fact that it could become an official matter.

 

I spoke with the psychologist I am seeing short-term and we talked about a number of things. I need to learn to communicate a lot more assertively and not let people like that ever push me around. I agree with him that I had been letting her get away with other inappropriate behaviour towards me and when I got the call on my day off from her, whilst we don't think it did any harm on that occasion, I got aggressive back to her.

 

For my homework, I'm meant to be thinking out and practising appropriate responses to her and others like her when they are on the attack.

 

I think word must have gotten around because so many people have said to me in this past week what a bully she is and they are so suprised she has remained in her current employment for so long.

 

Yes, I agree also that it would be unwise to trust the actions suggested by that acting manager. She finishes up at work at the end of this week, and for so many reasons, her suggestion to meet outside of work would seem inappropriate to me.

 

Any suggestions of best responses when people are on the attack. When I met with the psychologist, we were able to see some of the bullies tactics. One of her main strategies is to put people in a defensive mode when she will unfairly and inappropriately attack something they have done in an official capacity. Another thing is that she will hone in on something really trivial and blow it up. I've seen her do this with so many people.

 

She happens to be the union delegate and she is famous for calling the CEO saying that she wants to "discuss a union matter" with him. She used to skyte about being on friendly terms with him, but I think he may have blown her off as she now speaks very poorly of him.

 

The psychologist also talked about walking away from people when they yell at you and not backing down if they follow you - to tell them you will speak with them at an appropriate time when they have calmed down.

 

At this stage, I have not continued to pursue official actions against her, but know that if she continues with this type of behaviour, that official actions against her would be appropriate.

 

Would welcome any advice from you, especially with regard to communications with bullies when they are yelling at people or being manipulative.

[BellaDonna]

The psychologist also talked about walking away from people when they yell at you and not backing down if they follow you - to tell them you will speak with them at an appropriate time when they have calmed down.

 

Agreed. They yell because they want to get you upset so you feel the same level of anger that they are feeling. Since bullies are mad at the world, you will never feel the same anger they do. They will feed off you being upset though.

 

When yelled at, I'd say in the calmest tone possible "I do not communicate with people who raise their voice to me. Please let me know when you are a ready to stop yelling and we can talk". If they follow you just keep repeating it in different ways "In order for us to talk, you need to calm down" "I don't tolerate being yelled at", etc.

[Silverbirch]

Thanks BellaDonna. I really need to practise these things because when I tried doing the role play with the psychologist, I was not nearly fast enough and I need to be good enough at it for it to become comfortably second-nature. I need to go through and think out the scenarios I see her put people in and work out appropriate responses.

 

Scenario 1 I see her do very, very often is that she will very nastily criticise people for some type of action/work they have done and she will usually get that person on the defensive which is ridiculous because she is not a manager and never will be.

 

Scenario 2: I see her focus on really minor things but they are always things that she knows people are likely to be defensive about. She will blow the minor issue into something really big. Again, I see people defending themselves to her, and Ii want to make sure I don't do this.

 

Scenario 3: She constantly meddles in matters which are nothing to do with her, and then she will use the excuse that she is supporting another person/issue - she claims her motives are always to help others (as she is the union delegate)

I have thought out my own response to this scenario if she tries it on me - "I'm a paid member of the union and I have right also"

 

Scenarior 4: She will make personal attacks, snide remarks and criticisms at staff meetings in relation to staff who are not present. The psychologist and I agreed that an appropriate response might be: "I'm not comfortable around these personal criticisms of staff members, especially ones who are not here to defend themselves. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to discuss the matter in private either with the staff member or with our direct manager in private." That actor manager who you said you wouldn't trust, just sat there in meetings while absent workers were not present and joined in the criticisms which I thought was very poor. When we get out new manager, I am considering speakiing with her in private and asking her if she will be undertaking supervision meetings with each of us. My previous manager was really big on supervision meeting and that would be a much more appropriate situation to discuss personal conflicts I would think rather than at staff meetings.

[Silverbirch]

I think I have had a MASSIVE light bulb moment about something which should seem banal to understand intellectually, but to actually genuinely believe within oneself can take more time.

 

I had to go to a staff meeting yesterday where there were several real bullies and manipulators all playing their games.

 

I realised how in the past, I have internalised the mind games some of these people play and allowed it to affect my confidence and belief in myself. It was so weird yesterday, that when all this nastiness was going on, I had the blinkers removed from me. Instead of feeling intimidated, I felt quite disgusted, but my anger was contained.

 

I managed to speak my truth and look every person in the eye, to have confidence and conviction, knowing that my confidence was not fake, but earned. I didn't need to think out what to say in the way I have been trying to work out appropriate responses. I'm not saying that what did come out was shooting from the hip, but calm reasonable responses.

 

All the while knowing that on a couple of occasions, I needn't feel intimidated as the other person (a manager actually) was playing silly games with people, trying to undermine their credibility and confidence. I didn't fall for it for a minute.

 

I feel so good today. I still don't want to stay in this job, but I don't feel stressed in the way I have.

[journeynow]

I realised how in the past, I have internalised the mind games some of these people play and allowed it to affect my confidence and belief in myself. It was so weird yesterday, that when all this nastiness was going on, I had the blinkers removed from me. Instead of feeling intimidated, I felt quite disgusted, but my anger was contained.

 

Good to hear, Silverbirch.

 

I'm glad I don't have to deal with bullying, although there are a few relationships in which I later realize I've been manipulated. If I were more on guard for it, I probably would not fall for it so easily. I do react after I've had time to reflect upon it and approach the person with an acceptable alternative.

[Silverbirch]

Hi JN and THANKS. There was another article in the newspaper yesterday attacking the integrity and competence of management of the origanisation I work for. I have been at websites this morning filling out online applications. I feel that a barrier for me at present is in relation to getting suitable referees because all of the team leaders were made redundant through the restructuring as were area managers. Both of those positions were merged into a new position so a lot of people have moved on - a few of the area managers within the organisation. I am very, I believe, understandably, reluctant to approach people within the organisation asking them to act referree for me although some of them approach me frequently asking me to undertake casual/contract work for services they manage. The reputation of the organisation within the industry is in absolute tatters and I would think will take years to recover.

 

Another concern is that, according to the manager who was trying to intimidate people at the meeting, was that in the last few weeks, she personally has stood down 19 workers pending investigation by an outside investigatory organisation. My understanding is that all of those workers would need to be on full pay until they are either dismissed or re-instated. This must be costing the organisation a LOT of money, especially as for much of that work, they will need to employ outside casual workers. Even before this trouble began, the organisation had claimed to be experiencing severe financial problems - hence the restructure. At the rate that things are going, I would say there is a real possibility that the organisation could fold up.

 

JN, it feels quite amazing that when you familiarise yourself with the strategies and tactics bullies and manipulators use, you can develop an emotional distance because it all becomes so transparent.

 

I'm certain that I could get some work close to where I live with another organisation, but unfortunately, the hours are short and the pay is even lower. I might need to register with them as a backup. There are other organisations I believe I would have a very good chance of being accepted by - it's just this immediate issue of referrees I need to resolve. I'll have to ask the universe for help. Be grateful for anyone to say a little prayer for me or ask the universe to help out. THANKS.

[Princy]

Hey there, Just saw your caption..and wanted to share some experiences I had to face at my workplace..It was like a team of say 8 maybe..we had to undergo some technical tranining abt a process, Guess i was the one who never questioned this guy or never felt like asking coz I never understood his way of teaching, hence no idea what this guy had issue he would always target for something or the other...And It was very difficult for me to handle..finally I took help from the manager and complained against him..Guess his ego was hurt he started torturing more ..as in like talking in other language which It was alien Lang to me..hardly understood anything..The moment I pass accross him..he would start saying something..like playing some mind games you know,...putting me down and appreciating my juniors..or he would stand in the same place and start talking to his other friends where I was seated...Its like I cant question him..Since he was also a member in the team..And unfortunately I was totally bullied by him.. I was really upset wanted to even resign too..Then my hubby approached me to a psychologist , where he explained that I got to show deaf ears the person is no important to me..Why am i Taking it so personally..After all I have come to work n earn for my life not for others...its like there would be hundred dogs barking behind , you just got to ignore them..But the doctor suggested some medicines which kept me very calm. though that was not good idea I feel..But yes!! My mind was very calm no idea whether its medicine or the advise given...

[Purple Turtle]

i have posted a message on here (just yesterday) relating to being bullied. i myself was a victim of bullying throughout middle school and for the first 2 years of HS. does anyone here know exactly why bullies often go after sensitive people (i believe this was the main reason i was bullied for). i just don't understand what these kids get out of hurting a harmless, nice, sensitive person? are they just bad "rotten" people or is there something else going on?