Do I give him a second chance??

[loveculture]

I don't know what I'm doing. I already posted here about what happened a week ago with my now ex-bf. I have been talking with various people and getting somewhat similar answers with some people and with other people I have been getting more open minded opinions saying that they don't think this was something to break up over, especially if he didn't actually do anything physically with another female. I know that in the end I have to make a decision for myself, but I am finding it so, so hard. I would love more advice from ENAers. My relationship was 4.5 months long.

 

I abruptly walked out on my bf and dump him. I looked through his phone. Found that he texted a girl asking where she was living and asking to talk on the phone and said he wanted to hear her southern accent. He told me they were friends, he had met her at a show and seen her at parties, and they dated for a week. Then, through some research, I found out this girl was a phony (ever see the documentary Catfish?) and she or he was impersonating a model and had been talking to my bf for 3 yrs. maintaining a flirting relationship with him. Anyway, he contacted her to see where she was and how she was and to chat on the phone just about two weeks ago. I confronted him because I had proof he never met her like he said. He lied and lied and said he had met her, seen her with his eyes, met her brother, had photos with her on his computer, etc....and then he couldn't give me any photographic proof. He then admitted he lied after 10 minutes of lying and said he had never met her and she had messaged him 3 yrs ago claiming she went to his college and saw him in his show and then they somehow kept in touch since then with facebook, twitter, texts, and phone calls.

 

I found some messages in his facebook that weren't too horrible. He talked to female friends a bit flirty saying things like "hi pretty", "hey babe", and "because you're cute and i'm a smart guy." I asked him about those messages and he admitted that he is flirty and would do something to change that because he can see how it's not right after I asked him if he would enjoy me talking to my male friends in this way.

 

Then, I looked through his emails. I found emails between him and an online dater girl before we starting dating. Basically they were getting to know each other in emails, she was thanking him for his heartfelt letters, they discussed what they thought was important in a relationship. It seemed somewhat like a cyber relationship. I'm not sure if he ever met her, but this didn't concern me because it was before he asked me to be his girlfriend. But, then I looked in the sent mail and saw that he wrote to her 1 or 1.5 months into our relationship to her saying "hi, i miss talking to you. how have you been?"

 

I just don't know what to do. Since breaking up with him, he hasn't made his case better. He called me crying right after the break up asking to remain friends and that he never intended to cheat but was sorry for emotional cheating (because that's what I kept calling it), then he called another day to say he had my stuff and my birthday gift and didn't know what to do with them, then he called me another day at 5:30 and left me a bunch of semi-angry voicemails claiming I said I needed some space (I never said this) but that it's been 3 days and he hasn't heard from me, started accusing me of being difficult and a child for not speaking to him, pointed some of my own faults in the relationship.

 

Then he called me another day apologizing for being drunk and was thinking about me the whole time. He left me so many voicemails calling me "F-ing stupid" for thinking he would ever do anything with anybody besides me, he said he really "F-ed up" and whatever mistake he made that if I think he would do anything with anyone else than I don't know him at all, he apologized for sounding like a drunken idiot, said there was no one else in his world but me, said he almost got into a fight because his friends have been saying that if I looked through his phone and emails I must be a cheater and doing it out of guilt, that he probably messed up contacting those females like he did because he was mad at me because I can be "F-ing silly sometimes", said he was a big flirt and it wasn't right, but was wrong, said he loves me so much, wants to be together, wanted me to call him, said he lied to his family that we are just in an argument but not broken up, etc. Since then, I have spoken to him and he doesn't remember leaving these drunken voicemails.

 

After the drunken voicemails, I wrote him a long email about what he did wrong, how and why it hurt me, and basically told him he had a lot to learn about relationships and that I didn't want to be treated with such disrespect and that I didn't think he was ready for what I have to offer.

 

He called me immediately after reading it, apologized for the voicemails he left me, said his anger was probably a reflection of his own guilt for messing up, said he was very sorry that I got hurt, said that I taught him a lot and that he has realized he probably doesn't need to be in a relationship for a while and just work on himself, he cried a bit, said he couldn't look at the stuff I gave him anymore and wanted to know if we could trade things and if he could get something back from me that I have. He told me he didn't lie when he said he loved me and that he thinks he always will love me. He said he would like to remain friends if I was ok with that and would like to hang out sometime and teach me how to use something that he had given me for a gift, but that if I didn't think I was going to use this gift, that he would like me to give it back to him. LOL I'm not sure if he realizes how rude that was to say about a gift he gave me! He cried a little bit again when he said he hoped I would come see his show in October. Then, he told me he was going to move on now.

 

His voicemail upset me because he seemed to have given up and wasn't going to try to ask if there was any chance with me of repairing the relationship and the broken trust because of the lying he did to my face. I guess, at the same time, he may have been retaining a bit of pride because my email sounded like I was done with him. Although, I guess it took some balls to admit he was wrong, had things to learn, etc. I spoke to him on the phone after that voicemail. We discussed getting back our things, possibly hanging out, remaining friends, we started joking, etc. so I decided to ask him if he still wanted to be together or wanted to fix us and he said yes. Somehow we got onto the topic of what he could do to fix us. He said he loved me now even more because I was willing to try or at least think about trying with him. He said he would give me his facebook and email passwords if I wanted them, was willing to send apologetic messages and emails to all the girls I saw him correspond with in his facebook messages in order to apologize for any flirty behavior, and he knew that I would be questioning him for a long time because he knew that I had no trust.

 

So, now I'm left to make a decision whether to: walk away and move on, remain friends for now and just hang out as friends and see where things go, casually date each other and be allowed to date other people, or get back together and work at this.

 

I don't know whether to make him work to get me back by not jumping back into a relationship with him again. Then, I think about whether he has really done so much wrong that I should just walk away and leave him for good. I have all these thoughts and don't know what to do.

 

This may sound horrible but sometimes I think that maybe we could be FWB for now and casually hang out but see other people. I'm not sure how that idea would sound to him. The idea seems fine to me.

 

We sort of discussed casually dating for now and starting over with no sex, no sleep overs, short dates, etc. and he asked if we would be exclusively dating each other this way and I said I wasn't sure. He said he didn't think he would be ok with me dating other people too, but was willing to start over in this way.

 

Then I keep thinking about giving this one more shot but asking him how he feels about making a plan to attend my church with me once a week and to possibly go for couples therapy....I know that part sounds nuts because we have been dating so short of a time.

 

He texted me yesterday to say good morning and that he was on his way home after work. I haven't heard from him today though.

 

I just feel so utterly confused and lost. A part of me wishes I had not looked through his things because I wouldn't know.

[annie24]

hm. i dunno. my gut reaction, for what it's worth, is that you made the right choice in the beginning. he was too flirtatious for you, you didn't like it, and walked away. you're right, i think he would hate it if you talked to other men like that. but all those drunken voicemails really seal the deal for me. he sounds unhinged. how dare he call you and swear at you?? ugh. i don't think taking him back would be a good idea, no.

[chickydoodle]

So far he has revealed flaws.

1. Dishonest.

2. Needs ego stroked by being flirtatious with other women - suggesting your Love isnt enough for him.

3. Disrespectful

4. Verbally abusive ( when drunk)

5. Weak - Cant let you go even tho' he doesnt know how to treat you as a Loving partner should.

 

It is your choice if you can handle putting in for someone like this. You could give him another chance but you would have to be even stronger the next time when /if , it comes to kicking him out , if/when he stuffs up again.

 

It is all a bit of a gamble. Trust your instinct. None of us have a crystal ball and it is hard to make decisions based on needing to know what the future holds. If you go for it, you are going to have to deal with trust and control issues - always a challenge.

But If you go for it and it fails , at least you could say you tried.....

And if you go for it , make him wait a while before jumping back in .

 

Whatever you decide , my advice would be to not to the fwb thing. Can you imagine how you would feel if/when he starts dating others?

[The_Seeker]

Again, no.

 

Reread what I posted in your previous thread.

[loveculture]

I would love it if I could get some male perspective on this situation. I have not gotten male responses on this and would like to see what they have to say. I hope a few men can chime in here. Thanks!

[Shake Spear]

I would love it if I could get some male perspective on this situation. I have not gotten male responses on this and would like to see what they have to say. I hope a few men can chime in here. Thanks!

 

Well, as the others have mentioned, he has shown some negative sides of himself. Some people need constant validation from the other sex, even when in a relationship. That does not mean they will cheat, but its kind of a red-flag. I good friend of mine was like this with his first GF, very flirtatious with other girls. She was very secure and "laid back" though, so it didn't really bother her. His next GF was a lot more "strict" with him, so she managed to straighten him out

 

As with the drunken phone calls and stuff, not very charming, but not a mortal sin either

 

In the end, its your decision, but maybe you should give him the benefit of doubt here? In that case, you have to make clear what your boundaries are and you will not tolerate them being crossed

[loveculture]

Well, as the others have mentioned, he has shown some negative sides of himself. Some people need constant validation from the other sex, even when in a relationship. That does not mean they will cheat, but its kind of a red-flag. I good friend of mine was like this with his first GF, very flirtatious with other girls. She was very secure and "laid back" though, so it didn't really bother her. His next GF was a lot more "strict" with him, so she managed to straighten him out

 

As with the drunken phone calls and stuff, not very charming, but not a mortal sin either

 

In the end, its your decision, but maybe you should give him the benefit of doubt here? In that case, you have to make clear what your boundaries are and you will not tolerate them being crossed

 

Hi Shake Spear (love the username), thank you so much for the advice and your reply. Just want to ask you something just because you mentioned flirty behavior and some guys who just are that way. I am not terribly upset over the flirty behavior. IF that had been the only thing I found when looking through his stuff, then I would not have broken up with him because I do understand that it's possible that from his culture and home state, he is probably used to hitting on girls and being flirty (he's from Texas). But, the lying he did to my face with so much details and the email saying "hey, i miss talking to you. how have you been?" that he sent to the girl he had been getting to know online (before we started dating) from some online dating site....well, those are the two things that freak me out. What do you think, from a male perspective about those issues? Harmless?

 

I don't want to give him excuses but I do have some small proof that he was feeling insecure in our relationship and thought that I might dump him around the time he sent the email to the online girl. But I can't figure out why he texted that other girl (who turned out to be phony through my research) to chat on the phone this past month...I guess it really was just to get an ego boost and to flirt. I can also see why he would lie because he was ashamed that he had been talking to a phony person and been duped and didn't want to get found out by his girlfriend for lying so he said he just kept building a lie on top of another lie. He has given me the excuse the other day that he was bored and just decided to contact that online dater girl and the girl he texted about chatting on the phone and he had no intention or plan.

 

If I did continue this, you are right, I would have to make my boundaries clear. I want to ask about your friend. From your knowledge, do you know if he ever cheated on a girlfriend? Is he still with the girl who "straightened him out?" I think you are right that sometimes a girlfriend needs to come along and teach the guy because some are just being plain oblivious to their actions.

[Shake Spear]

Hi

 

No, im not trying to make any excuses for him. What he did was unacceptable, but then again, noone is perfect and we all make mistakes along the way. If he truly regrets his actions, and you feel you can trust him, then maybe he deserves another chance.

 

As for my friend, no i don't think he ever cheated, not as far as i know. He did make out once with another girl (in his first RS). In his case, his flirting came with drinking. The higher blood alcohol level; the more flirtatious he would get. We did call him out on it though, and he was really ashamed the next day. And yes, he is still together with his second GF (the strict one )

[incomingfire]

DO NOT BECOME FWB's where you can see other people. Read my thread and see how that affected me, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

 

He would only agree to it because he loves you and it's all he can get, unless he does what I did. I said "It's exclusive, or a walk"

Plus I already made it clear before this that I couldn't be her friend.

 

These things are torment for the man in love. Do not do it to him if you have any kind of love or care for him, because if you see someone else, mark my words it will break his mental health and he will hate you.

 

Either walk away, let him & you be at peace (upset or otherwise). Or see each other exclusively (no exceptions) and take it slow, you can still make him work for a relationship without messing his head up.

 

If you are thinking "but he messed me around, so why not?" - then just walk away from him. It's not a game.

 

Ask Shake Spear - he's seen my story!

[loveculture]

I kinda skimmed your last two threads. Your situation is akward and I'm sorry for the pain you have been through from being confused and chucked around.

 

Thank you for the advice, I have also decided on my own that it wouldn't be fair to become FWB and see other people.

 

You're right, if we date exclusively and take it slow, that might be the best route if walking away hurts. You say I can still make him work for a relationship....how so? How do you mean?

[loveculture]

Hi

 

No, im not trying to make any excuses for him. What he did was unacceptable, but then again, noone is perfect and we all make mistakes along the way. If he truly regrets his actions, and you feel you can trust him, then maybe he deserves another chance.

 

As for my friend, no i don't think he ever cheated, not as far as i know. He did make out once with another girl (in his first RS). In his case, his flirting came with drinking. The higher blood alcohol level; the more flirtatious he would get. We did call him out on it though, and he was really ashamed the next day. And yes, he is still together with his second GF (the strict one )

 

 

Hm, your post makes me think that some guys just need the girl to tell him what's acceptable and what isn't and if he is willing to change a little to be with her, then so be it. I just worry that if I set my boundaries with him and tell him what hurts me and what is acceptable behavior, it may be too controlling and create resentment from him towards me eventually if he stifles "who he is."

 

I worry about this because i've already been there. My ex was willing to compromise and change his flirty behaviors in the beginning of the relationship but then eventually he started treating me like ***t because he grew to hate me for controlling him and making him unable to be "who he is."

 

I guess it's a gamble though cause each guy can be different? Maybe what one guy can't deal with is what another guy can deal with? I guess I won't really know and will always wonder unless I give this one more shot and let him know my boundaries like you said....

 

My now ex-bf/bf has not had many strong relationships at all. The longest for him was 6 months and I believe that was when he was around 22. Otherwise, he has had relationships that last about 2-3-4 months. He claims he has been cheated on at least 5 times and told it was because he is too nice....which I find to be an odd excuse for a female to cheat. I wonder if this kind of a past has made him somewhat clueless as to what boundaries shouldn't be crossed in a relationship....or if "too nice" meant too flirty and friendly with the ladies and no girl bothered to really call him out on it, but just left or bailed due to feeling uncomfortable...

[loveculture]

Hi

 

No, im not trying to make any excuses for him. What he did was unacceptable, but then again, noone is perfect and we all make mistakes along the way. If he truly regrets his actions, and you feel you can trust him, then maybe he deserves another chance.

 

As for my friend, no i don't think he ever cheated, not as far as i know. He did make out once with another girl (in his first RS). In his case, his flirting came with drinking. The higher blood alcohol level; the more flirtatious he would get. We did call him out on it though, and he was really ashamed the next day. And yes, he is still together with his second GF (the strict one )

 

Hm, your post makes me think that some guys just need the girl to tell him what's acceptable and what isn't and if he is willing to change a little to be with her, then so be it. I just worry that if I set my boundaries with him and tell him what hurts me and what is acceptable behavior, it may be too controlling and create resentment from him towards me eventually if he stifles "who he is."

 

I worry about this because i've already been there. My ex was willing to compromise and change his flirty behaviors in the beginning of the relationship but then eventually he started treating me like ***t because he grew to hate me for controlling him and making him unable to be "who he is."

 

I guess it's a gamble though cause each guy can be different? Maybe what one guy can't deal with is what another guy can deal with? I guess I won't really know and will always wonder unless I give this one more shot and let him know my boundaries like you said....

 

My now ex-bf/bf has not had many strong relationships at all. The longest for him was 6 months and I believe that was when he was around 22. Otherwise, he has had relationships that last about 2-3-4 months. He claims he has been cheated on at least 5 times and told it was because he is too nice....which I find to be an odd excuse for a female to cheat. I wonder if this kind of a past has made him somewhat clueless as to what boundaries shouldn't be crossed in a relationship....or if "too nice" meant too flirty and friendly with the ladies and no girl bothered to really call him out on it, but just left or bailed due to feeling uncomfortable...

[incomingfire]

I kinda skimmed your last two threads. Your situation is akward and I'm sorry for the pain you have been through from being confused and chucked around.

 

Thank you for the advice, I have also decided on my own that it wouldn't be fair to become FWB and see other people.

 

You're right, if we date exclusively and take it slow, that might be the best route if walking away hurts. You say I can still make him work for a relationship....how so? How do you mean?

 

Firstly I have to say well done for deciding that exclusive is better, just trust me, that would royally screw things up otherwise.

 

Secondly, to make him work for it, do what my girl is doing right now

Be all over him and make him feel like a desired man one day, then be a bit unavailable for the rest of the week. You can be unavailable emotionally, not just in person.

Example, withhold your love and affection.....trust me.....you will see him trying to get it from you like blood from a stone.

 

However, bear in mind, if he is savvy, like me - then he will know to play the game right back at you and have you pining for him! Don't let this happen if he does, don't give in....he will always chase you.

 

In the long run though, this emotional kiss chase will need to stop. Once he knows your emotions and affections are under your control.....then the games can stop, don't torture him forever. He needs to be happy too.

[loveculture]

That's great advice. Haha, he and I both have been communicating and then having long days of not communicating so far and it does feel a bit like some game. And just as I was reading this, he texted to ask what i'm doing.

 

Well, first I have to make sure it's clear and let him know that we can date exclusively, right? Haha it would suck if I didn't say anything and found out he was dating around...then, the games can begin.

 

So, hold on, your girl is all over you kissing you and touching you and then the next she sort of disappears for a week? Haha! Quick question, I have no idea when sex can be back on the table....is that something I should probably also withhold for a while?

[incomingfire]

No, sex is fun and will make him want you more.

 

Yes, she'll be all over me like the goddess of sex has possessed her! haha! But then she'll seem emotionally indifferent for a few days, keeping me on my toes. I know she's doing it, and why she does it....but it still gets me wanting her every time.

 

No need to disappear afterwards, just put that freak in the bedroom away until you've tortured him for a bit and you can clearly see it's doing his head in.

 

Let him know you are exclusive.

[dasilver]

loveculture,

 

Your situation eerily resembles mine.

 

If you read my thread "Finding it hard to forgive myself" you'll see...

 

My ex's flirts were a little more sexual in nature. Your boyfriend's flirts weren't as bad as my ex's. So i guess he could be forgiven.

 

I hope you make the right decision and everything works out for the two of you....

[regretrevenge]

Hey. I'm a guy, and by the looks of it, that means you want my advice ;p

 

I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. Do not date this guy. I see that you have a lot of posts regarding your suspicions and I might go comment them if i have time, and youd like me to. I have had many relationships, both short and long, serious and flings. My 2 brothers have had the same, and all my best mates have been in situations like this. Honestly, no guy will tell you otherwise... if a dude is going out of his way to flirt with chicks, he has thought about sleeping with them. Your guy wants to bang these girls, it makes him feel good that they want him back, and its only been 4.5 months? He doesnt really care about you all that much.

 

He was tempted for no reason. Look, its not like Scarlett Johansson walked up to him in a bar and offered him one night with no strings attached. He went out of his way to contact people, let them know he was attracted to them (hi pretty) and try and get his flirt on behind your back. If a guy likes a girl and has only known her a short time- he'll shout her name off roof tops, yes, but he won't whisper things to others in private.

 

Don't beat yourself up for looking in his phone. You found stuff. You were right. You obviously had instincts for a reason, and now for whatever reason youre ignoring them? You seem to have asked a lot of people for a lot of advice, but still need more. Take it from someone who has been there, it's because youre trying to compile enough of a case to stay with him against your better judgement. Don't do it. You already broke up with this dude and he didnt do much to get you back. The crazy vmails sound really childish. How old is this guy?? You clearly have your answer to whether or not this guy is a good one based on this alone.

 

Staying with him or even becoming FWB or even friends with him is not a good idea. Let me tell you exactly what will happen. He will resent you. Because he was so wrong, he now has to prove he changed, you can trust him, he's worthy and good all over again. This sucks for him. Its tedious. Guys like to feel like you think theyre amazing and perfect and the man. So while hes acting all sweet with you, he will secretly be annoyed by it. And because of this, he will reclaim his manhood and ego by finding girls who think hes amazing behind your back. He'll look for someone cuter, smarter, sexier, funnier, and sweeter whenever he's not with you. And even if you wouldn't agree, he'll convince himself he's found it (and likely pursue it, based on his actions already.) This isnt a mistake he made...you caught him in a pattern of behavior. Are you a therapist? No? Then stop acting like one.

 

No offense, but it sounds like youre one of those girls who leave a guy for the right reasons but then panic once the guy is actually gone. It's the attention youll miss but you can get it again. You seem like a really eloquent writer and youre prob a great girlfriend. Give it to someone who deserves it. Sure itll suck to stop seeing him. Breakups are painful, youll probably get lonely sometimes and cry. But you only lost 4.5 months. Get it together, take a trip, buy some new clothes and become FWB with a stranger.

[regretrevenge]

By the way, anyone who hasnt seen her other posts should check them out. This one leaves out the true extent of this guys lying.

[dasilver]

Thank you for this.....no really....Thank you.....

[loveculture]

loveculture,

 

Your situation eerily resembles mine.

 

If you read my thread "Finding it hard to forgive myself" you'll see...

 

My ex's flirts were a little more sexual in nature. Your boyfriend's flirts weren't as bad as my ex's. So i guess he could be forgiven.

 

I hope you make the right decision and everything works out for the two of you....

 

I read the thread you mentioned. Wow. Yes, we have a somewhat eery situation. I'm not so sure if he can be forgiven. I feel like he isn't trying hard enough now to get back together. He calls me but doesn't call me till 12:30am or 2:30am....usually when he gets home or is in bed.

 

Last night we texted a small amount and I made a joke to something he wrote and he didn't even acknowledge it...instead he told me he was about to order pizza and then I didn't hear from him at all till 12:30 when he left me a voicemail claiming he was thinking about me and misses me and asking me what my plans are for july 4th.

 

I find this SO rude. His conversation with me through text is so blah....he isn't trying. He doesn't come up with any questions or something to say to make the convo move along. He hardly ever writes good morning or hi or goodnight. It's ridiculous. He has barely texted me as it is. Like one or two texts a day. He has called me three times though in the past 4 days.

 

I mean, I know my ex-bf/bf didn't have anything of sexual nature that I was able to find, but I guess that's because I didn't do a good job of digging. He was able to delete stuff on his computer and phone before I took a real good look. Plus, I think he could have been smart enough to delete some things as he was getting them. I'll never know since now I'm sure he will be cleaning his phone up before he sees me. Someone once told me that whatever you find, you should assume that things are usually more worse than what you found.

 

I really don't know what to do about him. I don't trust him at all. Every time he says he is doing something now, I wonder if he really is. I'm starting to ponder if he physically cheated on me. Every time he even says he misses or loves me, I wonder "do you really??? cause it doesn't really seem like it!" but I haven't told him those fears/mistrust. I question every word out of his mouth! I'm semi worried he is a sociopath or compulsive liar. I feel as though I need to find out somehow by testing him to see if he lies over something.

 

I almost am wondering if I could find someone to go into his bar and see if he flirts with her and tries to get her number, see if she offers and if he takes it and contacts her, and see if she suggests being facebook friends, if he contacts her through facebook to flirt. I almost think I need to set something up to find out if he is a cheater and a liar. I don't know....this sounds nuts and is a last resort I suppose.

[dasilver]

I understand completely what you’re going through…

 

He’s not commenting on the thing you texted him about because he doesn’t agree with you.

 

My ex did the same thing when I commented on how close he was getting with his ex-gf. He just refused to comment on it. It means he doesn’t agree with me. Therefore he will continue to be close to her in spite of the fact that he knows it bothered me somewhat.

 

I read a post that someone made and the person said “If your man is a flirt when things are going great in your relationship and especially if it’s still a new one. Imagine what he will do when the relationship starts to get old and maybe there’s stress in it?”

 

My prayer is that I hope to find a man that says “I love flirting with women, I think they’re sexy and beautiful and God’s gift to man. HOWEVER when I’m in a relationship, with a great girl, I will respect her and keep my flirts for her and her alone”

 

…because at the end of the day…that’s one of the ways you distinguish between someone you love and someone you don’t.

[loveculture]

Hi, thank you so much for your post. I am now officially confused on what to think or do. lol. My now ex-bf is 28 and I am 25. He is an actor, bartender, waiter. I'm an actress also.

 

I guess you are right that I am trying to go against my original judgment.

 

I guess you could be right about what will happen, especially cause he has been shamed and embarassed by me finding out that that girl he was talking to was fake and some crazy loser impersonating a model and he had been talking/flirting/making plans with her for 3 yrs!

 

So, this is a pattern of behavior you think? I worry that this happened because of me and he only started doing these things while dating me. I wasn't acting completely "into" the relationship. I denied seeing him a lot when he would ask to hang out, he told me he loved me 2 months in and I made him wait to hear it from me which I think secretly upset him, I wouldn't tell my parents about me having a boyfriend until about 3 months in so I kept sneaking around hiding things he gave me when I came home, but then I eventually told them and let them meet him. What I can't figure out, is if this had nothing to do with me, and he was actively searching to flirt and screw other girls, why would he bother wanting to take me to his home state to meet his family?! It just sounds weird.

 

His voicemails were definitely immature and childish and he owned up to that saying that he is immature and said he has a lot to learn and clearly can't handle himself in a relationship...this was all said in a voicemail he left me after he read my letter to him. He said he was going to move on and then that's when I finally contacted him after hearing the voicemail

 

Also, it seems he is very insecure cause I found messages to a female friends asking advice because he thought I was going to break up with him and he didn't want to be free. He claimed he could tell the signs when a girl wanted to break up with him because it happened many time before and he is sick of it happening whenever he cares about someone.

 

So, you are saying that even when a guy says "hey pretty" or "hey babe!!!!", he is looking to bang the girl? Because from the things I found, all he said was "hey pretty", "hey babe" and "you're cute" (that was the worst of it). The action of contacting an online dater girl to re-open communication is more concerning to me than those comments and the action of wanting to chat on the phone with the girl he flirted with for 3 yrs and had plans to "be with" are concerning too, but I couldn't find anything strongly sexual. I am not blind and know that everyone in a relationship flirts at some point because we sometimes need a little attention from someone other than our SO. So I'm not sure what to think. And also, I look at guys on the street and get lustful and think about banging them....those are just thoughts. I might flirt at some point while in a relationship but wouldn't act on it.

 

I just don't know if I can say this behavior is being devious and searching to bang another girl just yet because I still don't know him well enough and haven't found out all his flaws. That's what makes me think this needs one more shot and if it goes down south and he chooses to go after other girls, then so be it. I will just have to dump him again. It will be a big SIGH, but I keep thinking about this: it's the summer, I'm going through depression, I'm young, I don't have a car, I don't have a lot of money to go out and meet people so I'm stuck at home most of the time, I lost my job, I'm also going through some health problems right now so it's hard for me to go out much anyway, etc....why not just continue dating this guy for now so I can at least have a little happy in my life for the time being. Kind of like a "Sweet November" movie. Minus having cancer.

 

You see, I have a guy friend who is super flirty with me and all my female friends, but he never says anything out of line or with a strong sexual undertone (not like what Dasilver describes in her thread she asked me to read about her ex), but my guy friend will surely say hey beautiful or whatever and we all know it's just him being silly and loveable. So, I don't really know what to think....

 

Thank you for your compliments I will definitely weigh in what you have written to me. If you have anything else to write to me, I'd appreciate your words.

[regretrevenge]

Okay. Interesting that we're both online at the same time. I am saying that in this case, yes, your boyfriend was looking for sexual attention. Just because you didn't see anything specifically sexual doesn't mean this wasn't his soul intention. Did he have pics of these girls? Thats a tell-tale. Even one hot pic saved on a blackberry proves intent to bang in a guys book. Doesn't matter how old the photo is. We only keep pics of girls we would bang. Theres no point otherwise. Anyone thats just momentary flirtation we'll just check out online.

 

Of COURSE your dude said he'd change, and give you his passwords and say sorry etc etc. It would be crazy of him to say anything else, its just what guys do. Your situation is not a unique one. He is not your soulmate. You do not have something *special.* He betrayed you, stop trying to bend this to be natural. Ask yourself this: If the same type of situation happened every day for the rest of your life, would you be okay with it? If yes, he can call those chicks pretty or flirt with girls (online and through text and obviously in person cause that always comes first)...then cool. This is YOUR MAN. If you wouldn't feel comfortable, then duh, it's over. Because no matter how much he promises to change, he will not. And even if you never catch him again, you will think about what he already did all the time. The relationship is somewhat spoiled. This is how he is and you catching him and threatening a breakup doesn't psychologically correct years of bad wiring and behavior.

 

One of my friends ex's broke up over something comparable. I recognize that in this situation he was in the wrong. His gf found texts from a girl he used to date before her about 3 months into them becoming exclusive. They had said I loved you and promised not to date other people, the whole 9. She got upset, but he promised it didn't matter and deleted them in front of her. He tried like hell to get her back on his good side. Meanwhile he was texting other random girls, even asking to hang out. The longer he got away with it, the more he thought about actually hanging out. His gf could check his phone whenever she wanted, but it didn't matter because he made sure she wouldn't find anything. Even though he was deceiving HER, the fact that she was still with him made him lose respect, and encouraged him to cheat. He told me once that he really did love her, but was considering hooking up with someone "to get back at his gf for making him feel so guilty in the first place." Of course, he realizes now that that makes no sense. This is not love. He eventually did hook up with a few girls during the relationship but to my knowledge she never found out. He broke up with her for other reasons- they argued all the time, and she was pretty jealous apparently (go figure). Even though he swore he loved her at the time, and wanted to show her off to everyone under the sun, he realizes now that it wasn't real. He says now that he knew deep down even back then that he was proud to have her as an accessory, but could never actually text or flirt behind the back a girl he wanted to stay with forever. He now has a girlfriend who he treats like royalty. He loves her unconditionally and its beautiful. Even when they fight, all his immediate focus is on is making up and making her happy. They got engaged a few months ago.

 

Do you really think your guy is gonna give you passwords if he hasn't cleared the account yet? He's just trying to agree with the questions you're asking him. (4.5 month relationship and you need his password isn't worth it in my opinion anyway.)

 

Sidenote: Why are girls so crazy sometimes? You posted you might find a girl to bait him at bar? HELLO. Wake up. Just. leave. him. You wrote:

 

"I almost think I need to set something up to find out if he is a cheater and a liar. I don't know....this sounds nuts and is a last resort I suppose. " You already found out he pretty much cheated flirting is mental cheating if its sough after and happened more then once. You know he lied already. Doesn't matter if there was pride involved to make him lie- theres always reasons people do things. Nobody does anything for literally no reason. But his reasons don't make it excusable.

 

Okay, so he asked you to meet his family in some state he lives in??? So what? Some guys want to have their cake and eat it too. Clearly, he's one of those guys that enjoys the benefits of being in a relationship when it suits him (and not even that much by the sound of his behavior after the breakup) but still wants the perks of being single too.

 

You know in your heart this wasn't just him being silly and lovable. I mean, I knew it just by READING your posts. You don't need to catch him RED HANDED IN THE MIDDLE OF PHYSICALLY CHEATING ON YOU in order to break up with him. God, that really pisses me off about chicks sometimes. All of this is just about logic and respect. If a normal guy caught you doing what your ex did, he'd have no problem leaving you. You're complicate everything for no reason. For two people in their mid-upper 20s, it certainly sounds like your living the relationship of kids in junior high.

 

Sure, you did some lil things here and there- waited to have him meet your family and whatnot, but that would never bother any guy I ever met. You dated for 4.5 months and you made him wait for I love you??? Let's assume that you made him wait the whole 4.5 months- thats still absolutely normal.If theres something I could say to make you leave him right now just let me know and I'll say it (if its true).

 

The freakin end. ;p

[loveculture]

Lol I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I was talking about how I texted my now ex-bf yesterday and we were talking about a game he was watching and I asked who was playing his team and he said what team being the chicago white sox and i said i was wearing white socks as a silly joke, but he didn't acknowledge it and instead wrote that he was gonna order pizza. That was all lol.

 

Every time we have spoken about the stuff that went down, he admits it was wrong behavior, but who knows if he is being sincere. He has agreed to doing something pretty embarassing...I told him that I thought he should send messages apologizing for his flirty behavior to some of the girls I had found him being flirty with in his messages and then of course show me that he sent them and their responses, etc. He said he would do it so I think I will take him up on this to see if he at least messages two girls to do this in order to find out if he is serious. He also is willing to give me his facebook password...

 

Although, I've noticed he doesn't exactly want to talk about what happened though because I can tell he feels uncomfortable, but he will still answer my questions. The only thing that freaks me out is that I asked him why he contacted the online dating girl by email back in March saying "hi, i miss talking to you. how have you been" and he says he had no intentions or plans, he wasn't thinking that far ahead, that he was just bored. He gave the same excuse for the girl he contacted to chat on the phone who turned out to be a fake person and same goes for the couple of flirty words he used to female friends in facebook messages. BUT, it does bother me that he met some girl at his bar and messaged her asking if she made it to the bar (on a night he wasn't working) for karaoke and that he wasn't able to make it. Then he messaged her again two months later even though she never responded to say thanks for some advice she gave him on something and asked why she hadn't stopped into the bar to see him while he was working.

 

In the past, he has told me that he flirts while bartending to get tips, but if I didn't like it, he would stop. He has also told me that he does send out texts and contact people to get them to come to his bar so he can make money because his bar doesn't get a lot of patrons, so I can't be sure if that's what he was trying to do here with those messages to that girl. I mean, in all fairness, I think the night he said he didn't make it to the bar for karaoke, he spent that night with me. When I asked about these messages, he said something of similar effect. He said that he wasn't going to go for karaoke, but they had talked about it when at the bar, but since he has a girlfriend, he was being nice and said he hadn't been able to make it. But still, in my eyes, there is no point to contact her at all.....but, I can see how he might have done it to get more patrons to his bar to make more tips, so it's hard to say....

 

 

Here's the funny thing about what you wrote about a guy being so perfect like that....in some form or another, you will most likely have to tell him at some point that something he did was unacceptable and how you were hurt by it. Guys mess up. You have to be willing to compromise some things. I admit that you ex was definitely someone to get thrown to the curb because he was not willing to change really or admitting his wrongs. Not many guys exist that are so perfect and if a guy exists who says what you want him to say and acknowledges that flirty behavior is unacceptable, you still have to be wary that he is just saying this.

 

BUT, also, I think a guy who knows to be so respectful, must have learned it from someone. There had to have been at least one girl along the way who taught him what behavior is inappropriate because when you think about it, most guys act like dogs in a sense. The girl has to usually whip her man into shape. It sucks, but it has to be done because it's hard to find those perfect men that you talk about because there are so few of them....many are still learning and growing to figure out how to be in a relationship and need to be taught. If he is willing to be taught, admits his actions are wrong, then yes, I agree with you that is better off than for example, your ex, who wouldn't acknowledge that he was wrong and defended his behavior and justified it as being ok.

 

ALSO, there are a LOT of girls out there these days who are carefree and wreckless, girls who make a guy think his behavior is okay and think all girls are willing to put up with flirty behavior because he has dated a lot of bad eggs. These girls make our lives harder because of this. If all girls acted sweet and not so open-minded, flirty, and all over the place, we'd have more men in the world who knew how to treat a woman with respect.

 

You are so right though. My friend also pointed this out to me and I even put this in an email to my now-ex bf with the same sentiment as what you quoted: “If your man is a flirt when things are going great in your relationship and especially if it’s still a new one. Imagine what he will do when the relationship starts to get old and maybe there’s stress in it?”

 

I hope we can both have SO's who respect our feelings and boundaries once we have made them clear.

[regretrevenge]

Just re-read. This post is a huge mess in the grammar and spelling departments. Forgive me for typing so quick..I'm at work right now. (Shh) Edited some of my above post, so make sure to give it another once over. LOL

 

Came to add: My buddy said once to me that he wished his ex had broken up with him after finding his original texts. It would have forced him to reevaluate himself after a month or two of silence. But he also said he probably would have become a changed man of sorts and wanted her back in like a year had she done this. In his case this would have been a bad thing (keeping him from possibly meeting his now fiancee), but in your case it might be worth the effort. LOL. That is, if you still want this loser after so long.