Moral Dilemna

[Hnybun]

I have a relative who is committing Medical Card fraud. She is 24 years old with a young child and was recently married to her child's father. Her husband makes good money, but they've avoided putting her or her child on her husband's insurance because she complains it will cost too much (i.e. $300 a month). Well, welcome to adulthood! This guy makes $60K base (not including his very lucrative bonuses and expensive gifts he receives from his employer). Now she is pregnant with kid #2. As I mentioned, she was just recently married, so she has purposely not changed her name so the state will not find out. Meanwhile, she uses the emergency room like it's her 24 doctor's office! Her child has a cold, she doesn't call a pediatrician- she takes her to the ER! She herself has the sniffles and you guessed it! Off to the ER. She sees nothing wrong with her actions and finds it somewhat humorous that she is pulling this off.

 

I have problems with this. First off, I cannot afford the luxury of staying home with my own child. Why should I be busting my tail at work every day so my tax dollars can go to pay for her medical bills??? If they can't afford the $300/month for health insurance, shouldn't she get a job?

 

As much as this irritates me, I don't know that I could ever report her. That said, my conscience is really bothering me because I know what she is doing is illegal. Does knowing this and not reporting her make me an accessory? Do I have any legal liability at all here? I'm not perfect, but I try to be a good person. Her stealing is really bothering me, though. This all just feels so wrong and I hate that she ever told me about it. What would you do?

[OptomisticGirl]

So she's recieving MedIcare (or Medicaid, I can never remember which one is for the elderly) instead of paying for her own insurance even though they can afford it?

[Hnybun]

So she's recieving MedIcare (or Medicaid, I can never remember which one is for the elderly) instead of paying for her own insurance even though they can afford it?

Yes, that's exactly what she's doing.

[OptomisticGirl]

If it were me, I would report her (if you could). If he makes that much it isn't like they meet the minimun amount and are being denied for it. What I don't understand is how the state doesn't know they are married...

[Hnybun]

If it were me, I would report her (if you could). If he makes that much it isn't like they meet the minimun amount and are being denied for it. What I don't understand is how the state doesn't know they are married...

 

I don't know. I've never understood how their child was covered by the medical card when she's lived with the father since before the child's birth. It's not like he couldn't have covered her all along. Am I a bad person if I turn them in? It really stresses me out to know about this.

[DRL]

It really sounds like you're quite jealous of the "luxury" your cousin has. I'll agree that what she's doing is morally wrong, but not sure if that's not legal (Assuming she's no longer married and has primary custody over the child). If you want my opinion, I'd suggest staying out of this unless you're ready to cut ties with majority of your family members.

[Seraphim]

Is it your niece? I think you said you had a battle with her and your sister and you felt it was better to have them out of your life right because you did not want to add to the drama?

 

Yes, what she is doing is illegal. You can report her and it can cause an enormous family stink. They can reclaim the amount and then she won't be able to afford medical care for her kids because she will be paying back the amount she owes. If she is ever on her own she might never able to reapply and get medical care for her kids. The only people I see suffering here would be the kids. Yes, it is illegal and yes it is galling when someone does this. I would however really think about this because of the enormity of what it would mean in your family and for 2 little kids. Also too 60 K a year is not really an enormous amount of money.

[OrangeMoon]

its tough these dilemma's. I work for the government and i see people report their neighbours or business competitors all the time. In essence people that do this when safety or health issues are involved, should be doing that. But i have a hard time with the whole snitching thing just because you are not receiving the same advantage. It feels like bad karma to me. The one who is purposely committing a moral offense will feel the backlash from that one way or the other down the road..or some never (you always got those lucky ones out there). But that is not up to you..

 

Look at the bailouts, look at the process of monetary inflation, look at some of the taxes. There are way more and bigger moral offenses going on right now than focusing on the one your friend is committing.

 

I say leave em to the power of the universe.. Focus on your own life and how you can do good there..

[Hnybun]

It really sounds like you're quite jealous of the "luxury" your cousin has. I'll agree that what she's doing is morally wrong, but not sure if that's not legal (Assuming she's no longer married and has primary custody over the child). If you want my opinion, I'd suggest staying out of this unless you're ready to cut ties with majority of your family members.

 

I think you may have read my posts a bit too quickly. It is most definitely illegal. She is without question knowingly committing fraud and laughs about it. She is just recently married. If the state knew she was married, she would not qualify for medical coverage because her husband makes WAY over the limit. I have no jealously over someone stealing. I personally find it offensive that you would write that. I am struggling with this because I am aware she is actively breaking the law. I am also not thrilled that my tax dollars are footing the bill for this. Does that make sense?

[HoliPoli]

You never mentioned what relative....

 

I wouldn't mess in other peoples business. It looks bad on you. If she is in fact doing wrong it will come back on her all on it's own and "recently married" still gives her a grace period to report it before she would possibly have to start paying it back.

 

Get all the facts first, don't assume and maybe talk to this relative before going to extremes.

[OptomisticGirl]

I don't know. I've never understood how their child was covered by the medical card when she's lived with the father since before the child's birth. It's not like he couldn't have covered her all along. Am I a bad person if I turn them in? It really stresses me out to know about this.

 

More than likely she didn't put his income down. I don't konw, I haven't had medical insurance since I was 18 myself (can't afford it!) so I stand with you in it really does suck to watch someone take advantage of the system like this when so many people (like myself) can't have medical insurance because of what we make. I agree with Vic that the kids could be harmed in the future if she were to find herself on her own and she had this fraud case against her butt with $60,000 a year that's what, roughly $5,000 a month? No way they shouldn't be able to afford $300 worth of medical insurance unless they are blowing their money. you have kids, you have to live with consequences of having them - and that means paying a crap load of money for insurance.

[HoliPoli]

Yea seems like jealousy and revenge to me. It's just plain tacky.

[lukeb]

I don't believe you when you say your conscience is bothering you or you want to do this because you feel you have some civic responsibility. There is no moral dilemma here for you. There might be a moral dilemma for your relative because what she is doing is wrong, but more than likely she rationalizes it away. The only reason why you'd do it is because you're jealous so report her if you want but don't pretend about your motives.

[DRL]

I think you may have read my posts a bit too quickly. It is most definitely illegal. She is without question knowingly committing fraud and laughs about it. She is just recently married. If the state knew she was married, she would not qualify for medical coverage because her husband makes WAY over the limit. I have no jealously over someone stealing. I personally find it offensive that you would write that. I am struggling with this because I am aware she is actively breaking the law. I am also not thrilled that my tax dollars are footing the bill for this. Does that make sense?

 

My apologies, didn't mean to offend you. Is she legally married or was that some sort of a religious ceremony? If she's legally married the state obviously knows about her marriage since the marriage is registered with the state.

[OptomisticGirl]

I don't believe you when you say your conscience is bothering you or you want to do this because you feel you have some civic responsibility. There is no moral dilemma here for you. There might be a moral dilemma for your relative because what she is doing is wrong, but more than likely she rationalizes it away. The only reason why you'd do it is because you're jealous so report her if you want but don't pretend about your motives.

 

People can have morale dilemmas to tell on someone who they know is doing something wrong. Was it my dilemma that my father was using my grandmother's sSI checks to support himself instead of her? Course not, but I had knowledge about it and plain and simply it was WRONG. All that needs to be done for bad things to flourish is for good people to do nothing.

[TheVP]

Jealousy would be if she were upset that her relative legally we're obtaining this. She's rightfully upset. If you learn that your uncle has a credit card fraud business on the side, does being upset by this make you "jealous"?

 

What they are doing is the same as if you know someone that shoplifts. They are crooks.

 

Basically you have 2 choices.

 

1. Look away.

2. Report them.

 

I doubt saying "this is wrong" will compel any change.

[Hnybun]

I believe I mentioned in my initial post that I didn't think I could ever really report her. This does bother my conscience because it's is morally wrong and ILLEGAL. I've experienced some tough financial times myself (which they are not) and never once felt that I had the right to defraud the government. BTW, did I mention I am more than financially comfortable myself and therefore have nothing to be jealous of? I don't understand what people are basing that assumption on.

 

All I can say is WOW. I truly hope everyone can find some peace within themselves today and let go of their anger.

[Hnybun]

To those of you who were kind and tried to understand what I was saying, I truly appreciate the support. I hope everyone has a wonderful day.

[lukeb]

People can have morale dilemmas to tell on someone who they know is doing something wrong. Was it my dilemma that my father was using my grandmother's sSI checks to support himself instead of her? Course not, but I had knowledge about it and plain and simply it was WRONG. All that needs to be done for bad things to flourish is for good people to do nothing.

 

I agree with you on a philosophical level, I just don't believe that that is the reason why the OP would report her relative. I don't believe it for a second.

[HoliPoli]

Jealousy would be if she were upset that her relative legally we're obtaining this. She's rightfully upset. If you learn that your uncle has a credit card fraud business on the side, does being upset by this make you "jealous"?

 

What they are doing is the same as if you know someone that shoplifts. They are crooks.

 

Basically you have 2 choices.

 

1. Look away.

2. Report them.

 

I doubt saying "this is wrong" will compel any change.

 

3. LEARN ALL THE FACTS BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO RUIN SOMEONE'S LIFE SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU DISLIKE THEM. I highly doubt we got all the correct info concerning this story so those of you urging her to ruin this poor girl who could honestly turn out to be the victim of this malicious relative should think again and give better advice. If you must report then report on suspicion, not because your'e creating false truths inside your head.

[Hnybun]

3. LEARN ALL THE FACTS BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO RUIN SOMEONE'S LIFE SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU DISLIKE THEM. I highly doubt we got all the correct info concerning this story so those of you urging her to ruin this poor girl who could honestly turn out to be the victim of this malicious relative should think again and give better advice. If you must report then report on suspicion, not because your'e creating false truths inside your head.

 

Uh, I only know what my relative has told me directly. If it is within your moral compass to defraud the government, break the law, and laugh about it, well we have very differing views on what it right and wrong.

[HoliPoli]

I believe I mentioned in my initial post that I didn't think I could ever really report her. This does bother my conscience because it's is morally wrong and ILLEGAL. I've experienced some tough financial times myself (which they are not) and never once felt that I had the right to defraud the government. BTW, did I mention I am more than financially comfortable myself and therefore have nothing to be jealous of? I don't understand what people are basing that assumption on.

 

All I can say is WOW. I truly hope everyone can find some peace within themselves today and let go of their anger.

 

Have you ever gotten incorrect change from a store and not taken the time to return it. Isn't that stealing? Did anyone report you? It's not on the same level by any means but the point remains the same. Nobody here is a complete angel that has never done something wrong and probably all of us has learned from our past mistakes.

[OptomisticGirl]

3. LEARN ALL THE FACTS BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO RUIN SOMEONE'S LIFE SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU DISLIKE THEM. I highly doubt we got all the correct info concerning this story so those of you urging her to ruin this poor girl who could honestly turn out to be the victim of this malicious relative should think again and give better advice. If you must report then report on suspicion, not because your'e creating false truths inside your head.

 

If you follow that line of reasoning you can never trust the facts ANY one posts on a forum like this - yourself included because the fact is, none of us are there. So on that thought, how can YOU give her advice not to report when YOU don't have all the facts? As for 'giving better advice' - the same could be said of the advice YOU are giving her seeing as advice is based on people's opinions. If you don't like someone's opinion fine - that doesn't make the opposite view of yours wrong.

[DRL]

BTW, did I mention I am more than financially comfortable myself and therefore have nothing to be jealous of? I don't understand what people are basing that assumption on.

 

 

 

This part:

I have problems with this. First off, I cannot afford the luxury of staying home with my own child. Why should I be busting my tail at work every day so my tax dollars can go to pay for her medical bills??? If they can't afford the $300/month for health insurance, shouldn't she get a job?

 

sounds like jealousy. There's no concern about potentially cheated taxpayers and families who could have used medical care but aren't eligible and can't afford it. You're saying that she has what you don't have, no?

 

We here on the forum simply don't know all the circumstances to be able to conclude whether those actions are legal or not. They might be immoral, but I'm not so sure if they're illegal.

[Seraphim]

I don't think any of us are laughing or want to see people do illegal things. Not at all. What is the issue is for me is who is going to pay for the mistakes of the mother and that is two little kids and that is not fair. It is also something I think you would come to regret if you did it because the rift might totally alienate you from your family for good. You might also feel bad if one day one of these or both little kids suffer if their mother was ever on her own and not able any longer to get benefits. I know it is galling because I have a family member that has defrauded the government and stolen from others all the time, while my husband and I have had to work for every single cent we have. However I know my own family member is extremely mentally ill and would be living in severe poverty if they did not tell a lie here and there to get more. I would really look at why you are so distraught about this issue aside from the fact that it is illegal.