3fuegos3 Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 I feel so sad for that child. That is SOOOOO utterly disturbing. I would call police on that man anyway. At this point, there'd be nothing to build a case against him with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fuegos3 Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 Anyway, we've talked about the guy, what about the women? Again, the kid wasn't filming in secret, he was in the thick of it. Why would otherwise normal women feel comfortable enough to ignore a kid with a camera at an arm's length? Or, feel comfortable if the guy turns to the kid for a moment to mention how beautiful she is? I'm rather surprised nobody's mentioned this yet. Do they all get hauled in as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatAstrophy1607308539 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Anyway, we've talked about the guy, what about the women? Again, the kid wasn't filming in secret, he was in the thick of it. Why would otherwise normal women feel comfortable enough to ignore a kid with a camera at an arm's length? Or, feel comfortable if the guy turns to the kid for a moment to mention how beautiful she is? I'm rather surprised nobody's mentioned this yet. Do they all get hauled in as well? The women were just as bad and just as responsible [or irresponsible]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browneyedgirl36 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Other children can commit child abuse against other children. Any 14 year old or 15 year old who is taping sexual acts and having someone else tape it I can pretty much tell you that child has been abused at some point and is perpetuating it on another child as well. Yep. I've heard SO many stories about kids who were abused by other kids in a variety of ways; one doesn't have to be an adult to commit child abuse and/or exhibit extremely inappropriate behavior. If a kid is asking another kid to do this filming, I'd lay odds that it's exactly what Victoria has said -- he's been abused himself and is continuing the cycle with someone else. I'd be VERY concerned about this if I were a parent. Heck, I'm NOT a parent, and this freaks me out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browneyedgirl36 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Anyway, we've talked about the guy, what about the women? Again, the kid wasn't filming in secret, he was in the thick of it. Why would otherwise normal women feel comfortable enough to ignore a kid with a camera at an arm's length? Or, feel comfortable if the guy turns to the kid for a moment to mention how beautiful she is? I'm rather surprised nobody's mentioned this yet. Do they all get hauled in as well? They're not normal. I can't think of ANY normal woman who would go along with this. I suspect that, if an accusation was made, the woman would get in trouble to, as she should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 At this point, there'd be nothing to build a case against him with. Sure there is!! People who sexually abuse children do this to many children not just one. I would bet my house this man is doing it now. You're dang right I would call the police. Also saying, "aww nothing can be done about it now", only perpetuates the abuse and the abuser gets to continue. Ridiculous and creates HUNDREDS of victims. When a child is abused there is more than the child victim. Their parents are victims, siblings are victims, every relationship that child will EVER have in their life will be affected by this abuse. Now compound that by however many victims this man and these women have made. Think about it! Of course you draw attention to something like that and someone like that. Saying, "ahhhhhh forget it" is telling a victim of child sexual abuse it is ok they were abused and no one cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Anyway, we've talked about the guy, what about the women? Again, the kid wasn't filming in secret, he was in the thick of it. Why would otherwise normal women feel comfortable enough to ignore a kid with a camera at an arm's length? Or, feel comfortable if the guy turns to the kid for a moment to mention how beautiful she is? I'm rather surprised nobody's mentioned this yet. Do they all get hauled in as well? Of course they are just as responsible and they are just as sick as he is and I bet they are also abusing other kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seraphim Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Yep. I've heard SO many stories about kids who were abused by other kids in a variety of ways; one doesn't have to be an adult to commit child abuse and/or exhibit extremely inappropriate behavior. If a kid is asking another kid to do this filming, I'd lay odds that it's exactly what Victoria has said -- he's been abused himself and is continuing the cycle with someone else. I'd be VERY concerned about this if I were a parent. Heck, I'm NOT a parent, and this freaks me out! People who go on to sexually abuse kids, most are people who have been sexually abused themselves and had no help. The ones who have help are less likely to offend. This is not to say that all who have been sexually abused go on to abuse because that is clearly not true. Some do, yes. Is it an excuse? No, not at all,but you can see how it would happen, but they DO need to pay for what they have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fuegos3 Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 Sure there is!! People who sexually abuse children do this to many children not just one. I would bet my house this man is doing it now. You're dang right I would call the police. Also saying, "aww nothing can be done about it now", only perpetuates the abuse and the abuser gets to continue. Ridiculous and creates HUNDREDS of victims. When a child is abused there is more than the child victim. Their parents are victims, siblings are victims, every relationship that child will EVER have in their life will be affected by this abuse. Now compound that by however many victims this man and these women have made. Think about it! Of course you draw attention to something like that and someone like that. Saying, "ahhhhhh forget it" is telling a victim of child sexual abuse it is ok they were abused and no one cares. I once rang the police because I saw what looked like a crime scene on a sex offender's lawn. I knew he was a sex offender because I familiarized myself with my surroundings, including the local sex offender database on the web. I've checked thoroughly, and this person I've mentioned is not in the system. I don't much know him and certainly never caught him in an act, so if I rang the police, all I'd have to offer is something he mentioned. He could say it was a bad joke, and if he's not in the system to begin with, the police have no grounds to investigate. Plus, if he feels that heat, he'll make even more effort to keep his activities hidden, assuming there are more. Interfering with such a lack of evidence may make matters worse. I once knew a lawyer, and she was good; after easily getting him off, she'd probably turn round and sue me for slandering the guy. I certainly understand where you're coming from, and I didn't mean to imply it was a lost cause, but all I can do, for now, is keep an eye out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavenderdove Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 If the kid is 12 and the couple in their 20s, this would definitely be defined as a sex crime. Engaging in any form or sexual activity or including a child as part of the action even in a passive role would be defined as such, and both the adults would go to jail if prosecuted with sufficient evidence. But on the flip side, i don't know too many women who would agree to this unless they were either paid for the act and were prostitutes (and most prostitutes won't deal in underage kids at all for fear of the stiff penalties), or the women were drug addicts who were exchanging sex for drugs. Some women do sink that low. But it could also be something made up by this person to get sympathy or become the center of attention. There are plenty of sociopaths and pathological liars who tell some pretty wild and pitiful (untrue) stories of their childhoods to get sympathy or attention or to manipulate people or because they enjoy watching your reaction to their tales of woe or adventure. What I would do in such a case is to not question the veracity of what the person said, but to tell them that if that happened to them, they should seek a little counseling to deal with it if they feel it upset them or scarred them in some way. And to voice your own opinion that it was awful that two grown people used a pubescent child that way and that you hope they have since been caught and prosecuted for that kind of thing. I've even known some people with some weird kinks who start off telling stories like that to see your reaction, then before you know it, they are asking if they can film YOU or if you'll agree to let someone else film you. That is a briar patch where no one wants to go, so make your own feelings very clear on the matter, that you think he was being used and abused, and that if he suffers any kind of trauma from it, he should talk to a counselor experienced in treating child abuse survivors. If he was genuinely abused it will help him seek help for it, and if he wasn't and it was a manipulative story, it will put him on very clear notice that you are not interested in such things and think they are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilliesFan001 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I sincerely hope that anybody saying a child can't abuse another child doesn't work in social services. Are you kidding me? Child-on-child abuse happens all the time, and obviously it's not taken as seriously, so it's difficult to report and get help for. Children can absolutely sexually abuse other children, even if there's a year or month age difference. It happened to me, it can happen to anyone. Additionally, I would never assume someone is making it up. That's a dangerous thing to do. That being said, the adult man and adult woman were 100% in the wrong here, and no matter how long ago it happened, they should be reported. Disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fuegos3 Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 That being said, the adult man and adult woman were 100% in the wrong here, and no matter how long ago it happened, they should be reported. Disgusting. Because it was all casual sex, the women are probably long gone. Now, I heard all this only yesterday. I've met him a few times before, where he never mentioned anything similar. If I was to report him, I'd need to be sure it wasn't some tasteless joke on his part. Even then, how would I really know? Like I said, I'll keep an eye out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fuegos3 Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 I posted this thread because the stories resonated with me. I felt something bad that I hadn't felt in a long time; like feeling helpless but excited at the same time. I don't think I was abused when I was that kid's age, but I identified with him for some reason, feeling what he might've felt. I don't know how to deal with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilliesFan001 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Because it was all casual sex, the women are probably long gone. Now, I heard all this only yesterday. I've met him a few times before, where he never mentioned anything similar. If I was to report him, I'd need to be sure it wasn't some tasteless joke on his part. Even then, how would I really know? Like I said, I'll keep an eye out. Definitely keep an eye out. I think in these cases it's always best to err on the side of caution. I don't know why any grown man would joke about making a 12 year old film him having sex...besides, I think it's better to report someone and have them investigated/cleared than to accept something as a harmless joke and allow a potential sex abuser to go undetected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mines Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 This is child abuse. When you 'suspect' child abuse (you do not have to have proof) it needs to be reported. You can report it anonymously. Innocent children do not have a voice - even when something feels ''wrong'' or ''off'' to them, they do not have the maturity, the resources, or the fortitude to speak up. Especially if the abuser is a 'trusted' family member, a parent, sibling, or an authority figure (teacher, pastor, counselor, coach, etc) Better to report and have it proven false than to turn a blind eye and let a child be damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomboyMS Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I agree that this was abuse. I work as a child protective services worker so I should know. This guy definitely has some issues if he even thinks it's ok to tell a story like that. Seriously? Who does that? How much can be done about it now is a whole different story, but I would avoid him like the plague for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fuegos3 Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 ...I would avoid him like the plague for sure. For sure, I've had enough of what I heard. Something about it struck a raw nerve with me, deeper than the obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaz Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I think there's a lot of harm in reporting things just because you are suspicious. It can ruin lives. I know a man in Australia who used this to his advantage. Had a little argument with someone in his neighbourhood, and then printed posters with the neighbour's photo on them proclaiming he was a child molester. The guy was a police officer, he was investigated, his children were harrassed and bullied at school, he had to move house, change career... it is really serious. False allegations can ruin lives just as much as being abused. Unfortunately, I cannot prove that this man orchestrated the whole idea - otherwise he would be in gaol. I'm not saying don't report suspected abuse, I'm just saying everyone has to keep their thinking caps on. Once you're tarred with that brush - no matter how untruthful it is - you (and everyone you are close to) are stained for life. It never goes away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fuegos3 Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 Yes, this is what I'd rather avoid, especially with so little to go on. Letting our passions enflame us can lead to impulsive, and reckless, behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaz Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Yes, this is what I'd rather avoid, especially with so little to go on. Letting our passions enflame us can lead to impulsive, and reckless, behavior. On the other hand, leaving it alone and finding out the child has been scarred for life... could you live with yourself? Know what I would do? I wouldn't avoid the family. I'd get to know them, get to know the kid. Befriend them and let the kid know (in a non-molesting way), that he can reach out to you for help. For anything, don't frame it in the context of being abused. Frame it in the context of "growing up is hard, I know how you feel. It's hard to talk to family, if you ever need anything, I'll do what I can to help you out." And leave it at that. Just let him know you're on his side and always there. The kid may not even discover that there's something wrong with this behaviour until he's older anyway. It's the norm., to him. And it's up to him to reach out to you, you can't force it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fuegos3 Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 These are all good suggestions, but there's no kid or family involved here. The events described happened years ago, and I've never met the kid, nor do I know where he is. Since the guy just talked about something from years ago, and he's someone I don't know personally, reporting him seems premature. If I did see him with a new kid though, I'd voice my concerns, as you suggested here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatAstrophy1607308539 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Nobody in their right mind tells a story like that as a joke. No matter how sick they are and especially in this day and age. He may not be on the sex offenders register, the majority of sex offenders are not. It's difficult to prove sexual abuse as many victims report the incident retrospectively, when there's little or no evidence and it's often their word against the abuser's. However, sometimes these abusers remain on police radar, and any report could be used to build up a case in the future. Sex offenders almost always go on to offend and it could well be that he is under suspicion. You should never not report because you think it's too late or you have no proof. You'll be surprised what records police hold on certain people but haven't got enough to prosecute. The more reports [soft intelligence] they receive, the better picture they build and may increase surveillance on a suspect - which could lead to an arrest outside a school or before another crime is committed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3fuegos3 Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 Nobody in their right mind tells a story like that as a joke...You should never not report because you think it's too late or you have no proof. You'll be surprised what records police hold on certain people but haven't got enough to prosecute. The more reports [soft intelligence] they receive, the better picture they build and may increase surveillance on a suspect - which could lead to an arrest outside a school or before another crime is committed. No matter how badly a story like that has us feeling, I've heard tasteless jokes that were even worse. In my own circle, I've probably made a few myself. Anyway, I'm also familiar with police procedure. I submitted a tip anonymously, such that it won't be of further debate here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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