Confused and Alone

[hollowed454]

I'm saying changes I need to make are for me. If things work out with my wife great but if not there will eventually be future relationships.

 

I'm actually texting with her right now because apparently she no longer has the courage to say things to me. Just simply telling her if she wants a divorce I won't deny it but I won't be there to catch her anymore when she falls. I told her again the reasons she's leaving aren't reasons to leave. I told her I stand behind her on a lot of things but I don't on this. She text me first being real nice about it all and I'm actually confused if she is trying to get me to talk her out of the divorce or what. I told her this is out of my hands your going to do what you want to do. She's aware that if this goes to divorce that I have to continue my life without her because I can't move on when I feel this way for her.

 

I fully believe that I did everything in our marriage that I can possibly do to hold us together and protect her. Granted I made mistakes everyone does. I got no opportunity to fix things on my end with her and the way this is going we have no idea if we actually had what it took to make it or not. Divorce like you said is the easy way out. I don't like to run from my problems. I don't honestly know if this is a lack of respect but if this is an actual affair I'm dealing with here then yah it's a total slap in the face to me.

 

That was part of the problem. Say when I knew there was a problem I always waited no more than 2 days to decide how to address it and bring it to her. She sits on it and lets it simmer till she can't take it anymore. The few times when I would get her to tell me what kind of problem were having she would just tell me a small bit and then I would have to pry the rest of it out of her to find out exactly what was wrong. I believe in the sanctity of marriage and believe is worth saving but we can't save it if I'm the only one willing to put in the work. I'm not going to beg her to change her mind and I'm not going to try to reason with her. I can't. On my end I feel like I did everything I possibly could. It's just not right that I'm finding out what the issues are right when she's out the door.

[hollowed454]

I'm going to lose my mind dealing with this. So after she texts me earlier being real nice she starts talking to me again and slowly makes a turn to just being mean. Then she asks me if were still going to see Transformers 3 next weekend because she wants to be friends. I say okay. Couple minutes later she pops with up Well I don't know what I'm doing next weekend. I said well I thought we were going to a movie. So she says yah I just don't wanna go to a movie with you. okay. I'll hopefully be getting my stuff moved next week. I said whatever. Your confusing me a lot here. I'm trying to be as cordial as possible and your trying to turn this into an argument and I'm not going to do it. She said well I just don't feel comfortable hanging out yet. I said ok that's fine just decide what your wanting here because this is getting to just be too much of a rollercoaster for me. Today I feel like she is just trying to hurt me anyway she can and I'm trying to dodge the bullets. I'm trying to not argue with her and she keeps trying to start one for whatever reason today.

[GrowingIn]

Your other post: My ex wife and I had the same issue. One year we live together, and even though we discussed how it's bad to keep things bottled up I don't know how many times, she did that for a whole year and she let everything explode in one instant. I lost count of the number of times I would see her contemplating things in her own mind, and I could tell she had issues, and no matter how I asked, how hard I tried to get her to open up, she would say "nothing".

 

Maybe I didn't say the magic word, I don't know, but I can't blame myself for that one. I may have not known how to do it, if she had some special way, but God knows I tried my best.

 

 

As far as your other thread. It's the same stuff that's happening with my current ex. Game playing and mind screwing. She feels like she's in control and can play you like like a fool. Put your foot down. And I will tell you what this could have a lot to do with. Your repressed anger and hurt. She knows its there, she may even be scared of it, she's pushing, and she's looking for a reason to blame you for everything. You can give it to her, or not. It's up to you. Women are freaking NUTS when you let them take control. They do not know what to do with it. Save her and yourself from the misery. The more you stay in limbo like her, the more this will go on and on and on and eventually you snap, you say something, you relieve her of her guilt of her filing the papers and she leaves. You have got to stop waiting around on her at this point and take a stand. Take the night, and clear your mind. Ask yourself if you could really take her back after everything happened, if she was to come back and then how long you are willing to wait and then take a stand. At some point you have to make a decision, bad or good, take it and never look back.

 

The Transformers thing...you said "ok". Bad idea.

 

If you had REALLY decided you wanna give this a shot and wanted her back, this should have been your attitude and answer: "Of course we're going to see Transformers 3. Why would have anything changed? Try to clear your afternoon too and wear(whatever you like her in). Listen I gotta get some sleep, I'll talk to you later." And that's it!

 

She knows you are not sure what you want either anymore because of how you are acting or better said reacting. Face it, you are NOT sure you can take her back anymore. Are you?

 

In which case, please decide! If you can honestly take her back, and you wanna try to get her, you go for it, however you know best to do it. Be the man that you ARE, right now and give it your best shot. Give yourself a limit and you don't even have to let her know. If it fails, that's it, you go the other way and stick with that. And you know why, because this is the man you are and this is how you would do it. If you fail, you did your best, and that's all you could have ever done. No second guessing because you made the best decision you could considering all circumstances.

 

PS: Don't take my advice....all we could all do is guide you...in the end you need to take YOURS! It is YOUR marriage. Say a prayer, clear your mind and listen to your inner voice. LISTEN!

[hollowed454]

I have come to hate the word "nothing" my wife used that word so many times when I would try to find out what's going on.

 

One thing that I am certain of is that this pattern of her's will continue in every relationship she has until she actually comes to terms with it. I can fix myself but I can't fix her. Like I said the changes I want to make are all for me. I want to grow as an individual.

 

I don't really have any intentions of letting her lay all the blame on me. I don't mind shouldering my own faults but I can't carry her load anymore also. I know she "victimizes" herself and I know she goes around telling people I'm some kind of horrible person. That doesn't matter to me. Anyone that actually knows me knows otherwise. Her own brother is thinking she's full of crap and doesn't support her reasons! He's just letting her stay because he's going through divorce as well and needs help with finances. Which so do I and that's another thing that is kind of angering me with my wife leaving. I had no clue and no preparation to handle all the bills that got thrown on me.

 

I won't deny that there is part of me that wonders if maybe it's best this ends now because I worry this is a cycle that is going to keep repeating itself. At this point I don't think this is going to work out and I'm trying not to think on it too much really. I just want to work on me and getting me to where I need to be. Same time I also have a belief that a marriage is worth saving and if it can be it should be. Simply because while granted people change through the years at the same time that core thing that attracted you to them is still there. That's just the way I tend to think and basically what my father has told me anytime me and my wife were experiencing difficulties or I knew something was wrong and didn't know what.

 

I know it's not been advised not to do so but I'm really thinking of just stopping and letting her come to me. Not a lot else I can do but just focus all attention on working on me. I've admitted my mistakes. She needs to admit hers. Which that isn't going to happen and I don't expect it too. I don't really feel like I can move past this when we still communicate fairly frequently.

 

She was actually over earlier. She had text me earlier. I ignored the first couple of texts and finally answered the 3rd one keeping my responses short and simple and to the point. Even while she was here picking up a couple of things I kind of did my own thing..remained polite of course and talked but let her do most of the talking. She did throw me for a bit of a loop though which is most likely part of this game that seems to be played by her. She took a shower while she was here because her and her brother don't have gas until maybe next week. She came out of the shower nude,bra in hand wanting me to buckle it for her. Where normally she just gets dressed in the bathroom that didn't really make a lot of sense to me. Which is why I'm chalking up as part of the game.

 

She's really a piece of work. Yesterday we have it out and I get the I love you but not in love with you and today she's coming out naked and slapping and pinching my butt...got to all be part of the game. At least that's what I'm chalking it up too.

[Lester]

Hi H,

Stay focused on whether you want to stay married to her.

No,

That's easy.

 

Yes,

You have to return balance to your marriage. That comes from her regaining her respect for you. You cannot regain respect by talking.

 

PS, It's her Brother and will be for a long time. Be careful what you say. (You really shouldn’t be talking to him about your marriage.) Siblings talk... she'll hear weakness. People do not respect weakness.

 

Hang in there. (Really sucks doesn't it.)

[GrowingIn]

I agree with you 100% and would do anything to save my marriage, while I'm married. When I am with that person because that's when I actually can do anything. I just have a different view on when the marriage ends and divorce already took place. For me it was when she walked out the door and left. Again, that to me, is no different than if she would have cheated or actually filed the paperwork. The only person that I believe can truly do the saving at that point is her.

 

If someone cheats on you, aren't they the ones that have to work really hard to re-gain your trust? When someone leaves, it's the same thing.

 

The reason I say this, is this. Once a woman leaves and comes back, deep down, can you ever really trust that she won't do it again? Especially if you are the one chasing her to get her back. And since it always takes two to tango, we know for a fact there are changes she needs to make as well. Well deep down there's really one thing that motivates a person to want to change something about themselves: pain and suffering or love. That is why you are doing what you are doing. But love tends to cause long lasting change and pain and suffering causes the kind that's temporary.

 

When someone leaves us, we automatically assume that there is something wrong with us and some part of us needs fixing. Well that's honestly not always the case. It could be something wrong with them, maybe even more wrong with them. Sometimes it simply comes down to the fact that they are not happy, and it's easier to jump ship than to fix your problems. It's human nature to take the path of least resistance.

 

Now say you do succeed at making changes and reacquiring her love. What's to stop her from doing it again the next time you are in a rut, and she is unhappy? Subconsciously you are going to teach her selfish side she can do that AND that you will make whatever changes you need without her doing anything other than leave you for awhile.

 

I don't know what kind of principles, values and morals you and your ex-wife have, and I also don't know what marriage meant to you guys. Did you ever talk about what marriage means to you two before getting married? Did you set up pillars of respect and values that you both promised to uphold? That's what you need to look at honestly. Did you stick to that bargain? Did she?

[hollowed454]

Hi H,

Stay focused on whether you want to stay married to her.

No,

That's easy.

 

Yes,

You have to return balance to your marriage. That comes from her regaining her respect for you. You cannot regain respect by talking.

 

PS, It's her Brother and will be for a long time. Be careful what you say. (You really shouldn’t be talking to him about your marriage.) Siblings talk... she'll hear weakness. People do not respect weakness.

 

Hang in there. (Really sucks doesn't it.)

 

yah it does. rebuilding my life without her in it is hard! I turned down a job a little bit ago a staffing agency offered me because she works there. It was in the same department actually. If it had been in a different area I would have taken it. In the same area though I think would have caused some awkward situations and distractions.

 

When I talk to her brother we don't talk a whole lot about her or anything. I know it sounds that way but we really don't. My actual brother says to not even go around him but my brother in law is really the only person around here I would consider a friend. He says the only thing that makes her more family than me is blood. He says other than that he actually likes me a lot more. To the point that if she ever moves out he wants me to move in.

[hollowed454]

Now say you do succeed at making changes and reacquiring her love. What's to stop her from doing it again the next time you are in a rut, and she is unhappy? Subconsciously you are going to teach her selfish side she can do that AND that you will make whatever changes you need without her doing anything other than leave you for awhile.

 

I don't know what kind of principles, values and morals you and your ex-wife have, and I also don't know what marriage meant to you guys. Did you ever talk about what marriage means to you two before getting married? Did you set up pillars of respect and values that you both promised to uphold? That's what you need to look at honestly. Did you stick to that bargain? Did she?

 

Prior to getting married we did talk about our expectations and such. We committed ourselves to loving someone long after the "honeymoon phase" is gone to grow together as individuals with common purposes. We both wanted love,companionship,security and respect from each other and until recently I thought we were doing just that. I feel like I stuck to my end we've had a lot of rough patches and always were able to get through every obstacle together. I'm still here and like you said previously she should be here asking for advice as well. This isn't all her fault by any means as said I have done my share as well but I can admit my mistakes to her and to the world. even to this day if I think on it I can find other things I have done wrong. Got to embrace those mistakes and grow from them.

 

I don't like the idea of how marriage is taken so lightly because of how easy it is to divorce. I took my vows and meant every bit of it and have never looked back. I never ran away when a problem arose. Which is the way I see divorce as just running from a problem hoping it doesn't catch back up to you and of course until that problem is addressed and properly dealt with it will. I know I want to save my marriage but as said I think this is a problem that will keep repeating itself until she's ready to actually deal with it.

 

Maybe somewhere along the way with all the emotional baggage I've had laid on me from her and family issues both mine and her side of the family (both parents have passed away) and mine (my dad has been in real bad shape for years had a leg amputated two days ago actually) she's lost some respect for me. I don't know for certain but I do know the person I was 6 years ago isn't here anymore. While I do miss some of the self confidence I had back then I like a lot of qualities that I have now more. I used to be the same way I would run from a problem and overtime I had to deal with own demons and make amends with them. I think that may be something she's has yet to do.

[GrowingIn]

It sounds to me like you got your head on your shoulders as far as marriage and that's just the thing. Respect is the tricky part, because as I had found out, if two people are far enough apart, then what respect means to one, it doesn't to the other and vice versa. But security is something everyone can at least agree on, and this is something that it is clear she broke. And I know it may seem all too simple, but a lot of times it really comes down to the other person just not wanting marriage anymore.

[hollowed454]

I got more confirmation on the factor that my wife is having an affair. My wife just needs to come tell me already because this game of trying to keep it secret is getting ridiculous. It does confirm to me though that the reasons she's giving are trying to justify it in her own mind. Her brother had told me a week or so ago that she was wanting to bring some guy over and from what he told me was that he told her no because the less he knows the better because he will tell me. He said that last night when she was getting dropped by her supposed ride Suzie (she told him a girl is dropping her off)...he seen her kiss "Suzie" and said Suzie has a goatee. So yah I'm pretty ticked off right this second. To the point that I barely slept last night ticked off.

 

I won't say anything that he told me just to keep conflict down in their house but I do want her to own up to what I already suspected.

[Lester]

Dear H,

You said, "...but I do want her to own up to what I already suspected."

No you don't. Your heart is broke and your life is being torn apart.

You have been doing everything in your power to avoid this day. We all do.

 

After it happens, you will only want to grieve. This is normal and good...don't try and avoid it! But at the same time keep working on you.

 

It’s not over! It’s only the beginning. There can be many outcomes!

 

Needy, (especially empowered, angry women), are magnets for scumbags. Once you move on she will she him for what he really is.

Wayward wives take comfort that their secular foundation of movies, TV, music and books are going to be there for them. They won’t be! (They are only interested in her money…not her happiness.)

Her shallow friends won’t be either.

 

Chances of her being back on your doorstep? In your case, I’d say eighty percent. If you keep improving…Probably a hundred percent.

 

So, keep moving forward. It’s not about her anymore. (Never really was.)

 

Keep asking yourself if you want to be married to this person. It’s the only answer you need to know.

 

Grow is right when he talks about trust. Don’t take where you put it lightly.

 

Hang in there. Improve. (Watch your weight. Increase intake to maintain a healthly number.)

[hollowed454]

Well she actually called me to let me know she was going to order the divorce papers online next week. She got to talking and I never mentioned an affair. She says I know you probably think there is someone else involved here. I said I've never said anything like that when you left you said it wasn't for anyone else and I believed you. She said Well I just wanted to make sure you knew there wasn't anyone else involved when we lived together. I said are you saying there's someone now? She said there's someone else I talk too but were separated so it's not an affair. I said as long as were married it's an affair. I left it alone at that. Kept my voice calm when I said it .She tried to go back to it several times and I just cut it off. She went on to say that she's not in love with me anymore,she said she's shallow because the factor that my hair is long and that I've put on a little bit of weight (20lbs) makes her not attracted to me. She said she knows she's put on weight also and that makes her feel worse on that part. She said again she doesn't like the marriage life and just wants it over with and that she realizes she'll probably regret it later down the road. She said we had no life and that's because when I asked her what she would like to do she always said sit around the house. She said she really wants to be able to remain friends but at the same time thinks it might be easier if we went our separate ways. I just agreed to a lot she said and didn't argue. She kept trying to turn it into an argument and I would just say there's nothing more to argue about here this is the problems you see and I'm trying to be respectful of that. Which that would calm her back down right away. She said she doesn't like that me and her brother are still friends. I said well I can't help that you can't ask me to give up the only friend I have just because your uncomfortable with it. I said we try to hang out when your not around just so you don't feel awkward. She went on to mention that he had already said the same and said she guesses she will just have to deal with it. We had a long talk that I was ready to end about 20 minutes after she told me about the affair or that she more or less admitted to then would try to deny till I cut her off. She mentioned again that she doesn't feel comfortable with me having the opportunity to go to work at the same job and I didn't let her know that I turned it down already. Considering that the only way she knows people is from Facebook and work I'm going to assume the other guy works with her. Whole thing is crap but not much I can do about this other than keep working on myself. I've already lost 15lbs since this whole thing started! Which I'm fine with but I don't want to lose much more here. It makes me sick to eat though really. Just going to keep working on myself. You know this whole thing has broken my heart but I'm handling it better than I thought I would. I really thought I would be flipping out over it. I'm mad as heck about it but the hurt hasn't really kicked in yet.

[Lester]

There will be good/bad days. Plan your week in advance. Hang in there.

[hollowed454]

After having a couple of days to think it over and maybe I still need a few days to figure it out I am not real sure I could forgive her for cheating. I mean I've made my errors but for the most part I feel like I did my best. As soon as we separated she started slandering my name,pushing for divorce fast,has repeatedly tried to start arguments and is apparently fairly open about the affair to everyone but me. To me that doesn't sound like anyone who has any intentions to ever work on our marriage anyways. I have not contacted her since Saturday. Right now she doesn't seem to have any interest in talking to me outside of the divorce and I feel like I should not be pursuing her. I still miss her like crazy and mourn for our marriage that to me seems to have ended so selfishly but I don't think I have many options but to push on with my life and get myself together.

[Lester]

This might help... Sit back and look at the ceiling. Envision what you are going to be/look like after you "know" and move on. Forced/or not.

 

Will you be a broken man? Stop showering/shaving? Smell? Or will you be a new man. Handsome, got it together guy with a great wardrobe, car and house?

 

If the latter…then why not do it now? It’s simple and doable.

 

Look back through at my posts. Is it not what I’ve been asking of you all this time?

 

By improving you increase the stakes of the game. I know it’s hard for you to understand…but it’s all you ever had to do.

 

You can’t force anyone to do anything. They have to want it.

 

PS, Stop thinking so much. It's not about her.

[hollowed454]

Nope I'm showering and shaving like normal. Going Saturday to get my haircut and have started jogging/walking regularly to get in shape.

 

It's what you've been telling me all this time but with all that's going on right now it just hasn't been sinking in. My mind has just really been in turmoil.

 

It's hard not to think about her no matter how busy I try to keep myself. I accept the mistakes I've made but I can't go back in time I have to start trying to see the big picture.

[Lester]

Separation creates change anxiety. The turmoil goes with the territory.

 

Keeping busy will not help much... thoughts of her will creep into your mind a thousand times a day busy or not. This in turn will burn thousand of additional calories. When you go to bed you’ll be exhausted, pass out and they wake after three hours and remain awake till morning. The insomnia will add to your grief. You will have trouble making good decisions.

 

Your not going to avoid all of it but working on you will help. It’s simple and doable.

 

Buy a new pair of sneakers. If you have always purchased black sneakers then purchase white.

 

This will help you thousand times more than just keeping busy.

 

It sends a signal to you and the world.

[hollowed454]

Well she came over earlier to shower then we hung out for abit. She said she wants to make sure we can remain friends throughout all this. She said she realized she hadn't been making an effort at being friends. Who knows if that is an effort that will actually continue or not. Said she is coming over this weekend to get her stuff out.

 

We didn't talk much about the relationship we just mainly just talked. Still weird to me though she gets out of the shower shows me her "goodies" grabs my crotch and goes about her way. really confusing I must admit.

 

Still though just working on me. Like I said I can forgive a lot but don't think I can the affair.

[Lester]

H, I've pretty much said all I can. I can continue to listen, empathize and comment on specifics if you like. IE(Seeing her naked/touching at this later stage is a sign of weakness. It sends the wrong message to a wayward spouse.)

 

So to recap;

- Typical reactions by victims don't do much to save marriages.

- Don't want to save? No problem. Yes… very hard but doable. (Remember what grow said... yep, you're not going forget the affair. If it happened?)

- Decisive actions to improve can draw back a wayward spouse.

- Trying to change other people/wayward wife is a waste of time.

 

I know how hard this has been for you. Only after these things hit close to home do most of us realize the enormity of the pain.

[kefir]

Hollowed, sorry man but she is gone. Honestly, I think you are better off. When she says she wants to be friends, touches your junk etc, she is toying with you, sort of like a cat playing with a mouse before the mouse becomes dinner. For you own sanity, stop talking to her immediately, cut off all ties with her and get her to pick up all of her stuff so she never has any reason to go to your house. Don't let her shower at your place, she is using you. She is an adult and is responsible for her own choices. If that means she doesn't get to shower everyday then that's her problem, not yours. If you must keep on talking to the brother in law don't talk about her with him at all, just hang out and do normal guy stuff like you would with any other friend. In your mind they aren't related anymore. In fact, it would probably be best if you pretended she didn't exist at all.

 

There have been a lot clues that she has been having an affair or multiple affairs for quite some time. First there's the facebook postings from the co-workers about how such and such guy doesn't know what they're missing. There's also the facebook post about how when that one person comes along it can completely change your life (paraphrasing). And then there's her desire to stay overnight at a "friend's" house to get drunk. Sorry, but these aren't the sort of things you'd expect from a faithful wife. The affair(s) have been happening for much longer than she's letting on.

 

You seem like a good person. After what she's done to you, it sounds like she is not really worth forgiving. Lets review.

1. She is having an affair, and probably has been for quite a while

2. For some sadistic reason she enjoys toying with your emotions

3. She screwed you over with respect to your bills, and now you have to struggle to make ends meet

4. She betrayed you and obviously has no respect for you or your marriage

 

Whenever you feel bad about her leaving and you want her to come back, just think about the above.

 

You will emerge stronger and better from this. Be thankful that you don't have kids and that you can make a total clean break.

You said you've started to run/jog, that's good. Try to exercise ALOT, especially in the morning. The endorphins will give you a natural high, and all that hard work will make it easier to sleep at night. Keep busy and focus on your full time job and finding that part time job.

 

Bottom line, she isn't worth sulking over.

[mindi]

I have read this entire thread and I am wondering how things are going for you now.

 

I think the biggest red flag pointing to the affair is that she wanted a divorce but did not give you any real straightforward reason for it. In my experience, she will be with this guy for a short time, realize he isn't all that spectacular and she will be wanting you back in a couple of months.