Doesn't engaged mean you intend to get married?

[Luciana]

So my BF of 5 years last year gave me an engagement ring (a moissanite ring, cheaper than diamond but as pretty) to shut me up. We started living together and he knew I wanted a ring.

 

He did not ask me to marry me. He just said "now we are officially engaged".

 

10 months have passed by and I tried to mention marriage/a wedding twice. Both times he clammed up. Won't say no or yes, but shows NO enthusiasm. How does it make me feel?

 

Last night I was in a bad mood (because of other things). The conversation veered towards us and I ended up mentioning how resentful I felt that he never made plans with me, that he never talked about marriage. We will be together 6 years next month. Again, he says nothing.

 

I lost it and took my engagement ring off and said our engagement is off (although we are now living together). I said there is no point in being engaged if we (him) don't have a plan, a timeline to get married.

 

What do you guys think? Does engagement mean future marriage in the horizon? Do you have to have a period, month or year when the wedding will take place?

[ComputerGuy]

I think that buying an engagement ring without plans to marry is wrong. If you do get engaged, i don't think there is a timeline to get married by, but there should be at least some effort going into planning the wedding, etc.

[d346]

I am all for waiting a little after you get engaged...that is if there is a specific reason to, like to finish school, or something tangible and specific -with the goal to get married after that obstacle/benchmark has passed.

 

Otherwise, i think a year and a half would be my cutoff -and that would be just because you want to get married during a specific time of year, place, etc, or you just need time to plan accordingly

 

In my opinion, you should be AT LEAST talking about when, location, and what kind of wedding. Otherwise, you really aren't engaged, are you? Keep that ring off your finger and hold strong! It's time to get him to commit to his promise!

[MissJBug]

I just have one thing to say. DO NOT rush him into anything, because if you rush him... he will go against what he wants and do what you want and he WONT BE HAPPY, thereforeeee YOU wont be happy. You need to sit and talk to him about it...maybe its not what he wants (right now).

[d346]

you see, I'm dealing with that now, and we're not engaged yet. However, he gave her the ring, and now should own up to his proclamation of commitment.

 

what's the point of being engaged if you have to walk on eggshells-being afraid of pushing him into something he may or may not want. didn't he say he wanted it by giving the ring?

 

It's been 6 years. I see no rushing here.

[butterflykiss]

I've heard so many times of guys who won't marry, the couple splits, then six months into the next girl, he gets married.

The statisticss are against moving together w/o a definite date.

When someone makes his earth move and he knows he has to commit to keep her, he'' be at the altar in a heartbeat.

If you start to distance, you'll find out how much he wants to keep you - it depends on whether you're willing to gamble. you may win or you may possibly learn soon what you may otherwise learn after wasting a few more years.

[kimberly31]

If you have been together for 6 years and he's not sure about marriage, then he will never be. Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear but, you have life waiting out there for you. My advise would be to ask him if he ever plans on marrying you and get him to agree to some date, but if he won't then he will never committ to you.

 

It may sound harsh and it will be very difficult, but I wasted some years of my life myself and am now happily married to the "right" guy.

 

[Luciana]

Thanks D346 and others. I agree with all of you.

Pushing him is bad. Both times I talked about marriage I did it nicely and not in a pushy way. I just wanted to see how he felt. I felt he wanted to avoid the subject. The second time he listened more and grumbled something, with NO enthusiasm.

 

So why wear the ring then? What's the purpose? I have other rings in my bedroom to wear

 

Tonight we have a party and all of our friends will be there. The ring is on his nightstand. I am not putting it back.

Should I advertise the fact we are now "disengaged" or not?

The ring cost him 2,800. That's not peanuts. I like to wear it, but I feel like I am wearing a lie. People see me as engaged but I have no idea when or if ever there will be a wedding!

[Luciana]

Butterfly, you are right. Living together without a wedding date is a TRAP.

Because if you are dating and the guy absolutely refuses to discuss commitment, you just leave the relationship. Bye bye, simple.

 

But if you live together you are TRAPPED: you can't date other men and it's hard to get out: we even have a house together, and furniture. It will be hard to slpit and since I make a lot less money than him, I will have to have a really bad life (I have 2 daughters, one in College now). He will have a grand lifestyle, while I will have to squeeze myself into a small apartment far away from work.

 

So do NOT live together without a wedding date. Unless you don't care for being married (some people don't).

[d346]

the thing is, if you make it easy for guys to not commit, then they won't. making the big decision is huge for them. And probably more overwhelming than it really is once they do get married.

 

I moved in with my boyfriend on a whim, it was convenient. We were extrememly happy for 1.5 years. I never got a ring from him though, and when I started to ask about it, he'd clam up too. It became a frequent argument. So, our lease was up, and we moved to separate places. Was I happy with this, no. But I came to realize that i couldn't gamble with the upcoming precious years, if ultimately things were going to remain stagnant.

 

It was hard, tumultuous, and we actually broke up for a few weeks. I was an emotional, insecure mess that instead of proposing, he let us do this...move separately. You think your guy clams up...you should have seen mine after all this! He ran for the hills! (he HATES drama) but the breakup made him realized he wants me in his life, and now we're rebuilding. He KNOWS I want marriage. and he hasn't run. He even admitted we'd probably be engaged by now if we didn't move in together so fast.

 

also...I notice now that he misses me when we spend nights apart. I can hear it in his voice, when he's fishing around about my plans and I tell him I'm tired and just going to go to bed. I think eventually he wants to live together again, but I made it clear that I won't do it again without a proposal of marriage. And I think for once, he's finally seeing what the benefits of being married to me would be! things he used to take for granted. that I let him take for granted.

 

Before considering any life-altering changes, I do think you need to have a serious talk with him. -about why you took the ring off, and are still not wearing it. That you are ready to plan for the future. Is he finally ready to lay down some plans? If not, perhaps taking a step back may result in him thinking about the future for real. (I know, we really shouldn't have to do it in the first place, and can be very disrupting to our lives...but otherwise, maybe things will never change)

[OceanEyes]

I always find these topics about marriage so out of my reach, lol, all I have to do is joke about marriage and my boyfriend gets a look on his face and those "wide eyes". Not that I want to get married right now, but I think if your man puts a ring on your finger, there must be something said about that too. And history and statistics will tell you matter-of-factly that marriage is overrated and that 1 in 3 doesn't last anyhow. Ultimately, I think it takes a bit more than love to marry someone.

 

what's the point of being engaged if you have to walk on eggshells-being afraid of pushing him into something he may or may not want. didn't he say he wanted it by giving the ring?

 

It's been 6 years. I see no rushing here.

 

Well, I must say that my view of this subject changed a bit when I read what you said d346! I didn't look at it that way, and I think you're right!

 

It doesn't make much sense to me that just because she's asking him what's up with the next step, that he clams up. He didask her, right? But at the same time, you say this in the beginning of your post:

 

So my BF of 5 years last year gave me an engagement ring (a moissanite ring, cheaper than diamond but as pretty) to shut me up.

 

To "shut you up"? What does that mean? That you were 'pressuring him' into marriage or something? If your boyfriend's only reason of buying you a ring is to 'shut you up', then it makes me wonder if he was even into getting engaged in the first place. He seems to be happy with the status quo right now and in no hurry to make it 'official'.

 

If after 6 years he still can't decide whether or not he wants to get married, it makes me wonder if he's ever going to know for sure.

[Dezeard]

If you feel that the ring is to shut you up, then why don't you seriously discuss this with him. It looks obvious that he's not ready for commitement.

[Luciana]

d346, you are probably very right.

 

If I he doesn't want marriage, we should split. He will miss me of course. I can only take him back with wedding plans. Preferably we live together again AFTER the wedding.

 

He has absolutely NO incentive to marry me. I already am I wife to him. He will probably get bored with me even before marriage.

 

I am seeing now (late) how bad for the woman it is to live together. Maybe for a short period.

 

I have seen MANY stories like yours: the woman leaves the guy and he comes running back when he realizes she's really gone.

 

And of course I have seen the other story too quite often: he won't marry this woman but then he marries very quickly the next woman. I think they do this to hurt the woman who was nagging them to get married. One of my friend's ex married his new GF in less than one year. My friend was devastated when she heard the news. The guy had dated her for 5 years and nothing.

 

What the heck is wrong with these commitment phobics!! If you don't want a woman for the long run, let her go!! Don't jerk her around! It's not an honest thing to do.

[Luciana]

I used that expression because I was "nagging" him, if you call talking to him nicely and frankly and sincerely about us moving on to the next step. We are 43 and 46 now. There was no reason to delay more.

 

So when we decided to live together (THAT after I left him, so he came running back and we decided to give it a try), I told him that I did not want to live together without being engaged, that is was against my principles.

 

So, after a few weeks, seeing how resentful I was becoming, he bought the ring I had chosen. He didn't do ANYTHING special for that moment (another red flag). He just came into our room one Saturday morning and sat next to me and gave me the ring, saying "now we are officially engaged". He did NOT ask me to marry him, mind you.

 

So see? I feel he gave the moissanite ring to get me off his back. It was't romantic. He did not ask me to marry him one day.

 

I strongly feel I shouldn't wear this ring. Tonight with our friends I won't. I hope someone notices. He can sell it at EBAY (might get one grand or less for it.....)

[shes2smart]

I read somewhere once that a marriage is more likely to succeed if the couple ties the knot within something like 24 months of meeting, and less likely to succeed the longer a couple takes to get married.

 

I think it has to do with being ready to make that kind of commitment. That's something you can't rush and you certainly can't push someone else to do it.

 

I was living with someone and about a year into it, I knew I was ready to get married. He wasn't. I left and figured I was gonna be single for the rest of my life (I was 37 at the time). I knew I was ready to make that kind of commitment and build a life with someone, but I wasn't meeting any suitable men, so I figured that was it...it was gonna be just me and the cat. I had visions of being one of those weird old spinsters with 2 dozen cats, standing on the front porch of my house, yelling at the neighborhood kids to get the hell outta my yard.

 

About 10 months after I left the guy I had been living with (and after I'd started putting money away for a downpayment on a house I intended to buy myself), out of nowhere I met a guy online. Chatted for a couple weeks, then met in person. He proposed a week after we met. We got married less than a year after we met. We have now been married 2 years and couldn't be happier. We've never had a fight. I can count on one hand the number of times we've even argued. Even though it was incredibly difficult and painful at the time, moving out of the ex-bf's house was one of the top 5 best things I ever did.

 

If you're at a point in your life where you know you're ready and he apparently isn't, that's tough. I mean, do you hang around and invest more time into a relationship with no assurance he'll ever be ready? Do you walk away at least get yourself free to find someone else who is able and willing to make that commitment to you?

 

Giving someone an engagement ring to "shut them up" doesn't really bode well for the long-term health of a marriage, y'know? Even if that wasn't his intention, as long as you feel that way, it's there....

 

best of luck to you,

~s2s

[Mar]

Just to throw in my two cents, I've been engaged since Christmas past-past. As in, coming up on 2 years. My fiance and I have barely discussed marriage; when we do, he basically says he likes the security of knowing I'm his and he's mine and the ring is there as a reminder of that, and that there's no rush for the wedding. I agree, very honestly.

 

If your guy spent $2,800 on a ring, that ain't chump change. A man doesn't spend that kind of cash on something just to "shut someone up." Nope, uh uh, no way. That's SOME sort of commitment, even if he's still not comfortable discussing it. Men have a hard time taking that final step (not ALL men, just all the ones I've ever met, apparently!) to commitment to one women for the rest of their life. It's not odd, it's nothing to get angry over. Why? He's made the commitment to you for this long; I'd assume things are going well overall.

 

Be comfortable in the relationship, and don't push. The less you push, or even seem indifferent about it, the more he may think, "hey, she's losing interest and I really want to do this after all!" (Or not, I have no clue, I make this up as I go.....! ) Point being, there's no rush because the love and commitment are already there. Why is that ceremony so important? Will it mean he loves you MORE? Nope. It's a piece of paper, a name change, and the ability for one of you to put the other on your health insurance plan. Not much to get excited over there, is there?

 

Enjoy what you have with him; he gave you the ring, he'll come around to being comfortable with making marriage plans soon enough!

 

Mar

[d346]

just one piece of advice for your party.... don't get dramatic about not wearing your ring. I've make the mistake of being too dramatic (after some drinking) lol! It kind of cheapens your argument!

 

Maybe you should approach him beforehand, and say, look...we obviously need to talk sometime -I really don't want to wear this ring until we start talking about some plans.

 

Maybe you should start thinking about what you want! Like "I'm thinking we should get married next spring. It would be nice to have it outside at ____ (fill in the blank)", or "what do you think about going away for new years and inviting....______ and officially getting married?" Think about a specific plan and suggest it.

 

Either he will say,"ok" or "no, I was thinking more along the lines of ____," or he'll just freak out. And if he freaks out, then you know you have something serious to deal with! Because if he doesn't like your suggestions, when will it EVER happen?

[Francis]

There are tons of guys on this site who have acted the same way as your present boyfriend. After 2, 4, 6, 10 years ( !!!) of living together, the girl finally decided to leave and then, ONLY THEN, they realize they actually loved them and they come to this site to cry their pain and to draw extraordinary plans on HOW TO GET YOUR EX BACK!

 

I wonder where those guys are and why they don't bother to answer to your question!

 

I experienced myself a similar situation with two boyfriends, 4 yrs each, and they only cried, begged and crawled and asked me to marry them. When that happened, I was so resentful at the time that I said no, but I regret it now, because we were very compatible.

 

I have the feeling that your boyfriend probably loves and is EXTREMELY attached to you, but he is probably not aware of the fact. Chances are that if you separate, he will came back crawling and begging and will ask you to marry him. Otherwise, he will never know he loves you and if you pressure him, he may be resentful his whole life.

 

If I were in your place, I would leave : only then you will know whether he really loves you. If he does, he will ask you to marry him, if he does not, you don't want to be with him, you should find a man who really does love you.

 

Right now, you don't know whether you are but a mere commodity to him. Only by moving out, you will find out.

 

Best luck to you!

[Luciana]

Thanks for all your letters.

He is giving me mixed signals. He said he is not saying he will never marry me. He said he needs to be confortable in this relationship..we've been together for 6 years!

 

Yesterday I called up some friends and we had the nicest time at their house talking and dancing all afternoon. I left him alone. My friends gave me support and laughed when I told them about the confortable. How confortable do you need to be after 6 years! What an excuse!

 

On the other hand, he doesn't seem to want to leave. I told him I did not want the relationship after knowing he doesn't want marriage. When I came home from my partying he had bought my daughter who's going to College a printer and had gone grocery shopping. He also fixed a few things around the house. Like he was trying to please me. He just has a very hard time with speaking out what he wants, and is very scared of promising me anything in case he wants to get out.

 

Example: he needs to visit his family abroad. I have never been to his country and have not met his entire family. He mentioned the possibility of taking me there this winter. Well, when I asked him again about it (so I can plan my vacation at work) he clammed up again. He is probably very afraid of exposing me to his family, which he sees as a step towards commitment. He is so cautious of everything it drives me mad.

 

So now, either I shut up and WAIT WAIT WAIT or make steps to separate our lives. I am 43 and don't have eternity. I am still attractive and can find other men easily. But that won't last for long.

 

Some friends told me to wait since now my youngest daughter is starting High School and shouldn't be moved. But if I wanted I could get an apartment and drive her to her school every morning. Sacriifces have to be made sometimes. For your self esteem to keep intact.

 

A man who doesn't want to marry you but is willing to live with you gives you mixed signals: he wants you but not enough for marriage. It does ruin the relationship for me because I will always feel bitter about it. No matter how much he gives me (presents, etc-not that he does..), I will always resent his not wanting to marry me.

 

So much for living together. This "test" period seems more like a "have your cake and eat it too" situation.

[jbw65]

Hi,

 

I'm new to the forum (29/m) but just wanted to throw in a comment...

D346 has provided some very good advice. Don't push the marriage issue in a dramatic way, but at the same time it is a reasonable expectation to know the person you love and live with is willing to make to be fully committed. There should be a willingness to communicate openly, without being defensive about this topic. It's interesting to read the cautionary tales about living together. I would agree wholeheartedly, living together without plans for marriage can lead guys into a comfortable place where they have all the benefits without having to make the commitment. The "Why worry about it, when you don't have to?" phenomenon. I've seen this happen to numerous friends. I don't think it's a bad idea to rock the boat a little bit and express what you need in the relationship. Those lines of communication have to be established and it doesn't sound as if he's going to open them. I would second the idea that since he bought you a ring that's a positive sign. Subtly reminding him of why he bought you the ring could have a positive impact. All the best!

[the_tiger_striped_cat]

What Francis said is GOLDEN!

 

Either this guy is a commitmentaphobe or he really doesn't understand how much he loves you. It may sound shady to leave him as a test, but what are you going to do? How long will you wait? Set a date. "I won't bring this up for another 6 months." Be kind to him and pull out all the stops. If he still doesn't recognize your value then you should leave him.

 

Tell him, "I love you, I want to spend my life with you, but if you don't know if you want to marry me after 6 years you may never know. I can't be in a relationship with someone that doesn't know if they want to marry me--that's how important this is to me."

 

He'll either fight for you or (if he has serious problems) he'll let you go. Good luck.

[the_tiger_striped_cat]

If you have been together for 6 years and he's not sure about marriage, then he will never be. Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear but, you have life waiting out there for you. My advise would be to ask him if he ever plans on marrying you and get him to agree to some date, but if he won't then he will never committ to you.

 

It may sound harsh and it will be very difficult, but I wasted some years of my life myself and am now happily married to the "right" guy.

 

 

kim is right on many things here, but I wouldn't say "never". They say that "love knows not it's own depth until the hour of separation." Where you his first real gf? Did he ever have major heartache? He may know nothing of his true feelings. Take it from someone that faught for his ex for 13 months after she went back to her ex. Sometimes you don't know something until you've lost it.

 

But be carful. You want him to LOVE the prospect of marrying you. If he is coersed into this in anyway, you'll just get a divorce years later. You want him to fight for you, you want him to be the man of your dreams.

[the_tiger_striped_cat]

Thanks D346 and others. I agree with all of you.

Pushing him is bad. Both times I talked about marriage I did it nicely and not in a pushy way. I just wanted to see how he felt. I felt he wanted to avoid the subject. The second time he listened more and grumbled something, with NO enthusiasm.

 

Remember leaving him to think things out is not the same as pushing.

[the_tiger_striped_cat]

What the heck is wrong with these commitment phobics!! If you don't want a woman for the long run, let her go!! Don't jerk her around! It's not an honest thing to do.

 

I agree compltely. Read "Men who can't love" and see if your bf fits the mold. Read "Women who love too much" and see if you do.

[Mermaid]

If he gave you an engagement ring, it means you need to start planning a wedding--at least it should mean that. Otherwise, it defeats the entire purpose of an engagement.

 

I'm all for a long engagement--it can be an advantage if you want to make a major committment but need to get some things in order (finances, school, etc.) first, before making it legal. But even with extended engagements, there's an understanding between the partners; at some point, the couple discussed their game plan in detail--and there's usually some sort of running dialogue, because a wedding is imminent.

 

So, it's odd that he won't even talk about it. I'd take inventory of your relationship as a whole, and of what you know of your mate. If this was a stall tactic on his part, make it clear that you're on to him and that you don't appreciate being silenced with a ring that has no promises attached to it. Let him know that you want to start forming some sort of plan, just so that you know there will, ultimately, be a wedding down the line.

 

Also, try and find out of there's something scaring him about the idea of marriage. You're both mature adults; perhaps he'd be willing to get into some couple's counseling. Maybe he loves you so much that he's afraid marriage will change things somehow, and that he'll end up losing you. It's a weird thought, but we all know men are weird.