Heart or head?

[ohsweetlove11]

My best friend and his fiancée just broke up. They'd been together for 4 yrs (engaged for 2). They had no wedding date set.

 

Basically, their relationship had turned into the roommates stage. There was no romance left, she was controlling of his time, she bottled things up until they exploded and caused irreparable damage, and he wasn't sure he could offer her the future she wanted. He wasn't sure he'd ever be ready to be married, and he was leaning towards 'no' for kids while she wanted them. He's also met a girl and developed strong feelings for her - a girl that's better suited for him.

 

The break up was the right thing to do, obviously. For both parties. She deserves a relationship where the guy knows for sure he wants the same future, and so does my best friend. He knows this. He knows there was a very good chance he could never provide her the future she wanted - so why waste her time and lead her on?

 

It's just that now that the break up has happened, he says it doesn't feel right. Ok, that's normal. You can't expect to get out of a 4yr relationship and be fine right off the bat. He's promised me to not do anything rash like ask for her back and actually see what life is like without her, see if he's ok. But is there any way I can help remind him of why they broke up, to maybe help his head reconcile with his heart?

[WildChild]

Can I ask, is this 'new' girl you?

[DN]

And if it isn't you - do you have any romantic interest in him?

[endy]

And if it isn't you - do you have any romantic interest in him?

 

I think that's the right question, and the right answer is, don't be a rebound. I think the more important thing that I saw at the top, was obviously he doesn't know what love is and is confused about it. Looks to me like maybe her and him were chasing an idea love. Most people do this. Honestly, if I didn't figure out what love really is, and didn't love myself... I wouldn't even be in a relationship until I figured that out at this point. I'm glad breaking up with my recent ex brought me to figure all of this out.

 

I think it is way too soon for him to be in any type of relationship. You should know this, and not just jump at your desire to be with him. It would be a rebound, and rebounds 95 percent of the time don't work. Don't jump... RUN from a rebound situation.

[ohsweetlove11]

I will cop to it, yes I am the girl. I left that 'detail' out because I don't know how well polyamorous relationships are regarded here. But his ex knew about us being a couple, she is the one that said it was ok. We were a Vee though, her and i had no contact as per her request. This is what cause the major blow out. She went along with it even though she didn't really want it, and then she exploded.

 

I know it's not a rebound thing, we've been together for 5 months. I just hate to see him suffer. He *is* my best friend. He calls me his soulmate. He's never called her that. We do the whole call at the same time thing, texting at the same time, saying/thinking the exact same thing, having the same physical pains at the same time. We want the exact same future. She wants marriage and kids, he's not sure he ever wants that. So now they've broken up and he's suffering, second-guessing if it was the right thing to do -- even though right up to the conversation, he knew it was. They're not right for each other.

[endy]

They have broken up and he is suffering... You said it's not a rebound. THIS makes it a rebound. This makes him not completely over the other person. I'm sorry, but honestly you put yourself in a very bad situation here. It is not healthy mentally to get involved in a relationship when someone else is in one, or right after. I understand most people check out of the relationship while they are still in it. However, there's pain and there is suffering.

 

You hate to see him suffer... I can tell you that you need to not hate to see him suffer. You need to look at that suffering and pain with compassion and with love. You need to understand it and then help. Who else will help if you won't? Right now I'm going to tell you something that is going to be very hard for you to hear.

 

You are in an idea love honeymoon stage right now. When this feeling fades... and it will as it does in every relationship... There is going to be a GREAT DEAL of his feelings and thoughts that you are both going to have to deal with. If he does not get all of this out, and get past the other girl... It's going to wreak havoc on him mentally. If you decide not to deal with it, it's going to loom in his head, and he is going to suffer greatly because of this. It's going to cause a bomb to explode in him eventually. If he keeps all of this in, it's going to cause this.

 

I am not going to tell you not to be with him, although in all honesty I think you should indeed take yourself out of this situation. You will most likely see why in time. People have a hard time dealing with their suffering. They do not embrace it as they should. They usually tuck it back inside. This causes MAJOR issues mentally, then physically. It often leads to depression.

 

I will not and do not judge people on this forum. NOBODY is perfect. I post out of love for people who are suffering. I am harsh sometimes, but I do not speak with anger or try my best not to. In other words, be completely honest with people here. We are not here to judge you or your situation. We are here to help you see and learn. Take it as just that. Take the advice you get here, and then make a choice after looking at it deeply and deciding what is best for you.

[endy]

It is a lot easier for any person to run to another. They are afraid of suffering. In all honesty this makes us suffer much more, because we do not embrace our suffering and learn from it. We do not do this when we put ourselves in this situation. Someone who is right with themselves and happy with themselves really should not do this. They should have the wisdom and the strength not to. I'm not saying he is not capable of this... But really it's a bad situation and it CAN work, but there's going to be A LOT to overcome.

 

ALSO you have WC and DN that are going to respond. They IMO are two of the wiser people on this forum. Please listen to their advice and opinion as well.

[WildChild]

When you say your best friend, were you friends before this? Or he is now your *best* friend because you met during his relationship with her and have become best friends?

 

I would like to add, if you are hoping for finding answers or support...whichever you hope to find by posting, it helps to add everything, and not keep out details. Your story is a little evasive, and I haven't quite determined if you know the whole truth and it isn't so 'pretty', or if you are just trying to keep it brief. Either way, it isn't going to help you if you don't give 'us' the "full meat" of it all.

[catfeeder]

No, you can't control the way someone else grieves their break up. Friends and family have an eggshell walk around that because any input even remotely perceived as minimizing the ex can jeopardize their own relationship with the griever--especially if they ever reconcile. But that's not the only potential can of worms. Grief makes people vulnerable. Adding input to that is dangerous because he needs to form his own conclusions, and he's entitled to snake around with those in his own time, and in his own way. If you meddle, you position yourself for some hard core resentment down the road when he's stronger.

 

Clergy, therapists and objectively neutral people who have no skin in the game are the only ones who can openly call things as they see 'em with someone grieving a breakup. Anyone who wants to preserve a good relationship can offer time, positive support for a griever's strengths and good qualities and hopeful outlooks for his future. Beyond that, playing amateur therapist is a vat of quicksand, and if you combine that with sex and a romantic investment, just know that this can set you up for a nice pat on the head when he's strong enough and ready to step over you to explore what being single and free might have to offer him.

[WildChild]

OK, I've read this post quite a few times once you admitted you are this girl. So regardless of if you were his best friend, or now are, as I asked in my second post, doesn't matter. So disregard that question. I've pieced your evasiveness together enough to at least give you my first thoughts.

 

What I've focused on in your first thread is of many things. I'm being open minded enough to understand how the human mind and emotions work. So I'm not being accusatory, I'm being honest. With regards to your comment that she deserves a relationship where the guy knows for sure he wants that same future, you are making it seem like you have her best interest in mind as well. Everyone deserves that...you, me, the guy down the street, the woman in the car at the stop light. Your concern and interest in her well being is of no concern to you, and you know this. You want her to get out there and a find man, who isn't the man you are in love with...the same man she was engaged to. You may not want to see her hurting out of human compassion, but really you could care less as long as she stays away, away from him, and out of his mind. You are putting your concerns for her out there to appear you care but it's only truth is that it is to for her to "see the light" that you are better suited with him, and not her so she needs to find someone else....that she needs to let go of him and by doing so she is of his past, and that leaves you open to the "here and now" and his future. Let me tell ya, she probably feels the same way that she is better suited for him than you. So in other words, let's not pretend. You want her gone, and the sooner she is the better off for you.

 

Whether or not she was controlling of his time is right or not, she was in a LTR with him and also engaged to be married. Just because there was no wedding date set does not make their relationship let alone engagement any less important or not as meaningful, especially to her and possibly to him. Controlling may appear as that she expected all of his time, OR it could be that she was cutting into yours and his time which neither of you liked...considering that she first said that she was "OK" with you two, right? Probably. Her "bottling things up and exploding that caused irreparable damages" wasn't just 'something out of the blue' or "Where the hell did THAT come from?!" or anything short or less than her finally deciding and standing up for herself, standing up to him (and you) that she just was not so ok with this little arrangement that you and he proposed to her, and followed through on. Given the circumstances, I think it is only fair to say she had reason to even if she changed her mind; AND, yes it would cause irreparable damages between them two that I'm sure you were happy about, it made all of his time, attention, and love focus on you and only you. This would normal given your vested interest in this.

 

In terms of him. I'm taking usage of words that you continuously used in your thread. I make a point of saying that because you realize it isn't just as cut and dry ...their relationship or their BU...or the 'finality' of this 'wrong person for him and her' as you want the rest of your post to sound. That you understand there's a very fine line, and you are now understanding, seeing, and realizing his uncertainty not only involves you, but includes her. Those words are: wasn't sure...he wasn't sure he could offer her the future she wanted; he wasn't sure he'd ever be ready to be married, and leaning towards 'no' for kids... which could just as easily or as much be phrased, 'he wasn't sure of kids while she wanted them.' So whether you used them or not, you really can't take them back because these are the words he used in talking with you, expressing his desire to maybe not be with her, his feelings on these matter---> because it was how HE felt....not NO, but he wasn't sure. If you knew he was 100% certain to 'no' to any one of these things, you wouldn't have used the words 'wasn't sure.' So you know already there was no 'definites' in his problems or feelings with her and things they talked about, or her desires that he didn't know if he wanted or could live up to. This already put you at the back burner, and he was seeing where this was going to go with you. He was too uncertain to just cut it off with her, because he would know for himself 'no, we want different things, she's not right for me anymore' but unless and until he knew for sure with his feelings of these things with her, you would be on the backburner, and continue to be the other woman. He'd either go to her, or go to you once he decided. Or if he felt things got too sticky all the way around.

 

As to whether or not he promised he would not do anything rash like ask for her back...you followed that up with "actually see what life is like without her, see if he's ok." First, you will still be in the picture so he will not have free room and space both in his head or in his physical space to see at all what life will be without her. So he will have no time at all to sort through any of this because he will feel the pressure of you. And regardless if you tell him he can have space, or whatever, your heart is already invested so you aren't going to sit on your laurels waiting for him, because now that he has broken up with her, you will want to spend time with him, build your relationship, enjoy yourselves, etc. Pretty soon you will grow impatient if he doesn't make up his mind or sort through this soon, and you will grow impatient if he doesn't feel up to doing something, etc. This is where you come in. This is where you need to be realistic about everything. No matter how much you love him, no matter how much you two 'are soulmates', no matter how much you are better suited for him, he will not be able to give you 100% of himself as long as he hasn't worked through his feelings of 'it doesn't feel right.' This is about HIM. This is about HIS feelings. This about HIS loss of that relationship, even IF it wasn't right or had become a roommate situation. This is about HIM living with knowing what he did, and that at one point HE loved this woman. This is about HIM knowing that HE hurt someone who may have not made him the happiest, but at some point she had to have because not only did they date, they were engaged to be married. So while all of this is going on inside of HIM, you will be on the outside eventually not knowing anything but wondering if he's worked through it, is he still in love with her but telling you no, is he willing to leave her behind, does he think of her while making love to you, are they talking, why does he care what she thinks or feels if he loves me....all of those things. You can say I'm wrong because you know him best, or he told you differently, but no one EVER knows what the other person is truly thinking. We can only go by what they tell us, and that includes what they think we want to hear...but just because they say it, doesn't make it the truth. And unless words are followed by actions, one will never know.

 

It's understanding though that SHE was the main woman, you were the OTHER woman, until now. I know you aren't going to step out of the picture for his sake so that he can work through this. You are too concerned and realize that he isn't just so over her and them like you hoped, and prayed on. I would advise you to do that though, for both of your sakes. Give him time, and by doing so you know that he will work through it enough so that when he comes back to you....his soulmate and best friend...that he will be 100% himself and 100% be able to give ALL of his time, love and attention to you, and it will be genuinely ALL of your time because no other woman will be in the picture.

 

I will have to add this, if you are that much of his soulmate and best friend...like you say, and that's not saying you aren't but I haven't heard that from him so I will take your word he feels the same...but if you are his soulmate and best friend, and you know you are the best suited person for him, you wouldn't need to ask if there is a way to remind him of why they broke up. You would have no problem stepping out of the picture because you would have all the confidence in the world that he would and will return to you. Your choice to test if he feels the same as he says he does. Or maybe now you just aren't so certain. Something to think about

[LoveConned]

Hi Angie

BEWARE!!!! I was just very badly burned. My bf, who was living me for 10 months and who I was sure was the one and I was going to spend my life with, just upped and left me and went back to his wife - DAYS before his divorce was final!

And we had a fabulous relationship but obviously he had unfinished business with her.

Please heed my story, look at threads started in my profile - its my very first one its titled "he went back to his wife, I feel like I was hit by a stun gun.''

 

I only wish I knew a year ago what I know now....((((hugs to you)))) I know how you are feeling right now

[ohsweetlove11]

Hi WC,

 

Thought I'd clear up some stuff. I was trying to be brief but I can see now the more details, the better.

 

I do care about her. We were friends - all 3 of us - before he and I fell for each other. So I got to take a good look at their relationship and even when I first met them, it didn't seem right. Everything was very businesslike with them. No affection, no romance, no dates, purely roommates. So I do care about her getting what she deserves too. But you're right, I mostly care about him. I know he's felt the relationship has been 'off' for a while. Those issues didn't just arise because I came in the picture. She'd been doing the bottling thing for a while.

 

We met through music. He's a solo artist. They picked me up for a concert and we got to know each other - all 3 of us - and I told him I was a singer but I'd never gotten to really sing. He offered to do some jamming with me, so I sent him some lyrics. The rest is history. But even before I came along, she was already feeling neglected because she felt he was in the studio working on material too much. She tried to control his passion, which is just plain wrong. So him and I now have a band (just the 2 of us), so we skype a lot to work on music. She'd get upset by that too, even before we were a thing. So we included her in as much as we could.

 

But yes, I do feel compassion for her and I truly do feel she deserves someone who KNOWS he wants a wedding, kids, a picket fence house, a big dog and tons of other adult stuff. And the thing is, he just isn't that guy. He wants to live in a loft downtown, doesn't want responsibilities, and since we are musicians, he wants to be able to tour and he knows he can't do that with kids, so no, for the time being and for MANY years, he does not want them. Maybe when he's a lot older he'd change his mind. But he's 25 right now and that wouldn't happen until he's at least 30-35. And the thing is, his ex doesn't want to wait that long. She's been pushing the issue and he's closed up even more. He proposed to make her happy... not because he was ready to be married. He's admitted that. He proposed without being ready for commitment.

 

During our relationship, we split up time as best as possible. I live 4 hrs away, so it's not like we were together in person. We would make music over skype. It's not like she had to worry about us doing anything untoward. She could walk into the room at any time (he has a home studio). We never shut her out.

 

Another thing he hated was that she's always on her phone checking twitter and fb and all. Even when they're doing stuff together like watching a movie, she would choose to be on social networking instead of appreciating her time with him. She took him for granted, and she was disrespectful to him - she calls him an idiot, stupid, etc.

 

He's also straight edge, as am I, and she still drinks and has no intent to change.

 

They just don't have much in common anymore and after 4 yrs have drifted apart quite, quite far. He's trying to be fair to her. I was on the phone with him right before they had 'the talk' and he told me straight up he knew in his head and heart it had to end. It's just that now that it is actually over, now he's hurting. Understandably. 4 years is a long time and now he's feeling like maybe it was a mistake to give up... but that's his heart telling him that, and he's admitted that. His head still knows it's best to leave because he cannot provide her with the future she wants. So he's trying to stay strong. In any case, she's moving out in 2 weeks. Her dad is coming around next weekend to help her pack some stuff and coming back the weekend after to pick up the rest. He and I have talked and he will be taking a month to try and reconcile his head and heart again to get to that stage where both were in unison about their break up.

 

He has no doubt still that I'm his soulmate. There's just pain from losing a great girl with whom it just couldn't work. But again, this WAS polyamory and I'm not going to break up with him just because he broke up with her. Our couple is still alive. He's taking some space right now, both from me and her, to try and clear his head. And he texts me when he needs me, and I'm there for him. He's talking to his dad about it all too. I'm not going to lie, I do have some fears that he will end up going back to her and leaving me. I have invested a lot in this relationship, and a good chunk of it is in my future with the band. We both want this for our futures. We both want us. He's just trying to get over her right now. I'll try to stay impartial and only offer advice when he asks for it, and I'll give him the time he needs. That's about all I can do. I truly do love him. A whole lot. Giving him space when he asks for it and time is about as much as I can do though. I can't step out of the picture fully. HE doesn't want me to. Until he asks me to leave, I am staying by his side and walking him through this. They're over, he's trying to reconcile that and move on.

[endy]

I understand this thread more clearly now by reading this post. I think WC gave you great and honest advice. The problem that I see here is he's going to take a month out... I'm sorry but I don't care who you are. You do not get over a four year relationship in a month. While I was reading this whole thread, what I see is you giving reasons to justify his and your actions. In all honesty he cheated. If he cheats with you, he can cheat on you. I just went through a somewhat similar situation... As I was in your position. My ex left her LTR of 3 years to be with me. And yes after 7 months, she went back.

 

What happened was she suffers from having an ideal thought of love. She looks to others to make her happy. You have to understand that he is 25 years old. He and you may both have this idea of love right now. I can't answer that for you. I don't doubt that you feel love for him, as there always is in the beginning of the relationship. I too was told by my ex, that we were "soul mates". She jumped into the relationship, didn't grieve it at all and ran back to him after 7 months. The relationship wasn't very good after 2 months. She could not confide in me at all, she was depressed and emotionally withdrawn. She kept it all in until she had a misscarriage, and right after started talking to him again.

 

I'm going to give you some advice, I really hope you think about this. When we end relationships, the healthy thing to do is grieve it. We need time to get back to being happy with just yourself. We need to heal and examine it. Maybe realize why the relationship went wrong and how you could have done things differently. Then apply those changes if you need to. You need to give him however much time he needs. I would say at least 6 months in his case because of the length of the relationship. If you really let him go, and you think you are "soul mates" he should come back shouldn't he? I personally don't believe in soul mates, but I do believe in soul groups.

 

What HE says right now about the relationship, and what you think and say right now is irrelevant to me. The reality is he was in a relationship. He wasn't happy with her. He cheated and you cheated. Be it physically or emotionally. What is going to happen if you continue is HE is going to bring all that guilt, and baggage into the relationship. There's always a honeymoon stage in a relationship. After that is over... You'll get a lot of resentment and he may not even respect you because you jumped into this. That is when you will see this person and all of their flaws. When there is no more honeymoon stage. This relationship right now would really not have much of a solid foundation.

 

What I would do in this situation is remove myself from it. Give him time to heal, I would ask him to let you know when he's completely over her. Honestly a relationship that long would take me at least 6 months to heal to a point I could even think about being in a healthy relationship. Then go from there. If he really feels you are "soul mates" after this time then he will come back when he is ready. It is by no means healthy to jump from relationship to relationship. You need to stop looking so much into words and look at his actions.

 

If he can cheat with you, he will cheat on you. If he can lie to her, he can lie to you. He was with her while he was with you. Which DOES make you a rebound. I understand how you feel right now, but trust me rebounds rarely work because of what was said above. Is this really the person you want to love? You have love goggles on, this may not make much sense to you right now. It's a lot easier to run from one relationship to the next. But what happens is when you don't deal with pain, guilt, suffering... It just builds up until it comes out. If we don't let it all out the proper way it causes depression and other issues to arise.

 

I really feel for you, because I have been at exactly that point. I made a huge mistake by getting into that relationship. I really don't view it as such now because how much I learned about myself and grew from it. However it caused me great suffering and pain, when my ex did the exact same thing to me that she did with her ex who she ran back to.

 

I want you to understand right now that I know you want to help and I know you want to care. The problem is he has to figure his feelings out on his own. When you are there for him constantly, it's not really going to help him much to figure it out on his own. It's going to complicate his emotions, and he's not going to make the proper choices for himself. I understand that you don't want to see him suffer because you love him. This is something that he chose. Now he has to deal with it before you two can have a healthy relationship with a solid base IMO. I could be wrong about how long it will take him to get over it. I can just tell you from myself that I could not get over a LTR that quickly. I may think I am after 2 months, but if I'm still thinking about the girl every day... I'm in no shape to be in another relationship.

[LoveConned]

Endy, How wise you are! All from the benefit of experience. I too went through the same thing just 3 weeks ago. Man of my dreams. soul mate, promised me and my daughter the moon and stare, never felt like this before etc etc just upped and left too for his ex. (maybe I could PM you Endy, I am still dealing with the shock and rejection, having a hard time)

 

I think its hard for them to break off thier relationships fully, they truly need space to think about if that what they really want.

 

Jumping into another relationship is not the answer and the person who they are rebounding withoften stands to get very hurt indeed, as was recently very brutally proven to me.

Angie, give him space. let him decide where his heart is truly at. I know its hard right now but its about protecting YOU and your heart now and further down the line. If its meant to be, it will be.

[endy]

Feel free to PM me Love I usually check the forum several times a day... Life permitting.

[ohsweetlove11]

Just to update everyone. The obvious happened. We just broke up cause he wants her back.

 

And I am now a total mess.

[Gymboy]

Just to update everyone. The obvious happened. We just broke up cause he wants her back.

 

And I am now a total mess.

 

Listen to what the people in here have said and apply it to yourself and your own life. It was impossible for him to have been over her so quickly and you two getting into a relationship so soon was a mistake. Now you have to focus on yourself and move on. I'm going through a break up and i can say after just 3 weeks i do feel a lot lot better than the initial few days. Time really is the key to healing. Make sure you go no contact, whichever way you look at it, he has treat you like * * * * and you deserve a lot better than being someones rebound. He doesn't deserve you in his life so don't allow yourself to be.