Should I give her a second chance...? Deeply confused!

[Jaimie]

Hi all...

 

I have another topic in "Breaking Up" but this is a different issue. I don't know whether I should give my GF a second chance. I'm 26, she's 24. We've been together almost 5 years and lived together for 4 and half years. She's Italian and every summer visits Italy for a couple of months. I'm the only sexual relationship she's had. Over the last year our sex life suffered through external problems (Mainly health worries for her) we had no control over. This summer she met a guy she likes. She told me she wanted a break for the summer. She put me in a no win position...give me this break or we're through. Obviously I was devastated.

 

For a whole week she was a cold and callous. She ignored me, didn't answer my messages or calls and just went off with this guy. They didn't sleep together but she spent loads of time in his hotel room kissing and getting intimate...just touching she says. She just completely disregarded us and our years together and was majorly selfish.

 

So...I dumped her. I said I never want to see her again and I wasn't interested in trying again.

 

Now...she's calling me constantly trying to persuade me to take her back and give her another chance. Yesterday for example, she called me 30 times. I just ignored every call. I answered her emails in the same way - no chance. It's over.

 

It kills me to ignore her because I still love her and do want her back. I feel uneasy though for the following reasons.

 

1. She says that because of the sex problem she lost some feelings for me. She needs to see me again to see if she can recapture the sexual connection.

 

2. She's still in contact with this guy via email. She says that if we get back together she'll stop the contact. She also repeatedly states she has no feelings for him. If that's the case and she really wants us to try again why is she still in contact with him? She must realise this can cause a problem!

 

Am I overreacting on this issue? Is it normal for her to stay in contact with the guy she cheated on me with even though she wants us to get back together?!

 

3. She keeps saying that she feels lost and "shocked" at how she acted. She says it wasn't her. She was just vulnerable and confused about her feelings.

 

4. I can't get the images of her with another guy out of my head. This is really holding me back. I could deal with casual kissing caused by being drunk or something. She went way too far. She was naked in bed with this guy. Is it really possible to forget the intimacy she shared with another guy and move on?

 

5. How can I trust her again? She told me during this period that she wishes she'd just hid it till September. That way she could have told me to my face and could have hugged me to make me suffer less (!). If she was willing to hide it before she got caught out then what would stop her doing the same thing again in the future.

 

She is a wonderful girl and I do love her. I just don't know whether giving her a second chance is the right thing to do. She says the only problem we need to solve is the sex thing. She was on the pill until she went back to Italy and that seriously dampened her sex drive. As soon as she came off it her sex drive went through the roof. Of course, she was in Italy when this happened.

 

She could have realised that this combined with certain other external factors (Death in the family, Final year exam stress, ongoing health problems etc) were the cause for us not having sex. She didn't wait to give it a chance though...she just moved onto the first guy she could find it seems.

 

She says I'm perfect for her and she can't imagine her life without me and she's not ready to give up on us yet. I want to take her back I just don't know if I should!

 

I just replied to an email she sent me saying that I can't see how we can get back together because of trust issues and the fact I can't seem to move past her intimacy with another guy. I told her I really need to feel that she's 100% committed and passionate about us getting together again. If I persist with this stance am I in danger of driving her away?

 

Any thoughts? Is our relationship doomed or can it actually work again despite the betrayal?

[Scout]

Yes, you have a lot of thought you need to give this. Basically, you stood by this girl through years of health problems she had. And she made the decision to toss all that away. She is now learning there are consequences to her appallingly thoughtless actions.

 

Give yourself the time you need to make the decision that feels right for you.

[Beec]

We're human. We make mistakes. We should also forgive those who do make mistakes that hurt us.

 

At the same time, we need to be able to trust those we are in a relationship with.

 

What are the issues you need to deal with?

 

1. If she does come back, can you trust her?

2. If she does come back, can you put this behind you? In a year or so this should seem like it never happened, almost.

 

What else is there to it? Part of you won't know until you try, but you also need to think about what you are most likely to be able to do.

 

It's not the same thing, but all the issues are raised in this thread:

 

link removed

 

It was begun by a man who's with cheated. Take a look.

 

No one can decide if you should take her back, but the questions you need to answer are the above.

[Jaimie]

Thanks Beec. That was a great thread.

[the_tiger_striped_cat]

Everyone in right here. People DO MAKE MISTAKES. I feel sorry for the people who say things like. You need to look out for #1. I hate her for what she did for me. I can't believe the bitterness sometimes.

 

But you need to make sure she doen't have a cheating personality. Make sure that this is an isolated incident and will never happen again. Married couples are known to go through the same thing. 80% of married couples at least TRY again after infedility. Because someone does forgive.

 

But you should remember. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. If she EVER does this again, kick her curbside. She should wallow in her pain for a little while, not because you're masochistic, but because it's good for her to associate pain with what she did. She can't think that you're some doormat that will take her back everytime. And you should tell her that flat you. You tell her, "I will never forgive you again, if you EVER do this again. I can see you're sorry for what you've done. But you need to understand that this one of the worst things you can do to someone. And I will never put up with it again."

 

good luck my friend.

[Jaimie]

Things have got worse...

 

She is still in contact with the guy and has been repeatedl telling me that their emails are innocent, plain and nothing but friendly. She also repeats that she has no feelings for him at all. If that's true then why is it so difficult for her to give him up?!

 

I called her bluff. I asked her to let me see the emails she's been exchanging. She said no. We argued. I said if what you're saying is true and you have no feelings and it's all friendly then you shouldn't have a problem showing me the emails. She said that if I saw them then I would definitely NOT get back with her again. What does that mean?! Doesn't it mean she's been lying about the nature of the contact as well! She just can't see how badly she is acting.

 

Am I being unreasonable? Why the hell should I take her back if she can't break contact with the guy she cheated with? She keeps blaming me still and telling me I should trust her regarding the emails. How can I trust her?! She seems to expect I should automatically trust her. How can I after everything that's happened? Surely she must realise that after cheating on someone the trust is shattered and the other person has to try and make an effort to rebuild it?

 

I gave her that chance. She kept telling me the emails were innocent. I said show me. She said no. This means she has something to hide.

 

I hate this situation.

[Beec]

You need to explain to her very plainly. You cheated, I didn't. You gave me reason not to trust you, and, right now, I can't really trust you based on your actions. If you want there to be an us, you need to demonstrate to me that you are trustworthy, and until you do, I need to be able to see the things that will tell me you are no longer want to cheat with this guy. See, it is not so much even that you did something, that hurts, but so does the idea that you wanted someone other than me. If you want someone other than me, then you don't want me enough for me to stay her.

 

Tell her: "It's your job to show me that I can trust you."

 

If she cannot, I'd leave.

[cassiana]

She appears to be a great girl for laying down the law. Now its your turn to play hardball with her. Tell her that you won't even consider taking her back unless she stops emailing the other guy. She's having it too much her own way and ringing you 30 times in one day while still contacting the other guy is just demented.

It is possible that because you were her first great love that she needed to see if far away hills are green but if shes coming back to you it must be 100%. She hurt you badly and you stood by her.

The major thing about cheating is about the loss of trust. How can she hope to win back your trust by saying that she can't show you her emails to the other man because you won't go back to her. Well if that's true then she doesn't deserve you back. She should prove to you that shes trustworthy by cutting her ties with this other poor sap shes stringing along and committing to you. If she won't do that then I'm afraid she might be out to make a sap of you again.

You are in the stronger position so use it to your advantage. Its your way or the highway. If you feel yourself weakening remember what she said to you when she was having her fun. Also tell her that you are not in a soap opera and if she rings more than three times in any day you will yank the phone out of the wall.

I may be wrong butshe seems to me like the sort of woman who would like a strong man to put order on her. Some women find that extremely attractive.Good Luck.

[Jaimie]

Thanks Beec

 

I said that very thing to her. I said it's her job to prove she's trustworthy. She still wouldn't show me the emails though. She admitted she'd been affectionate in them when before she'd sworn blind they were just innocent. She's still lying! She says he only left a week ago so she thinks it's normal to think about him. But she's been saying the exact opposite! That it's all innocent and she has no feelings whatsoever for him.

 

The thing I hate about this is she keeps trying to pass blame onto me as if it's my fault. Instead of fucsing on reparing things all she goes on about is how I'm focusing on what happened too much and how I should trust her. It's so maddening. Of course I'm focusing on the situation...it just happened! I have the right to be angry surely?! I have the right to fel mistrustful of her. She acts as though I shouldn't be like that and should just get over it or something.

 

Also...two days ago she said she wasn't going to on a trip to Paris because she needed to be on her own and think things through. She couldn't understand her behaviour and she was "shocked" at how she acted. Now she IS going to Paris with Friends. She keeps telling me she wants to try again in Ssptember but when I spoke to her today I asked her "Can I trust you when you're in Paris?" She said she "didn't think she would do anything" but as we're broken up at the moment she's "single" and just wanted to be free and feel like she could is she wanted to.

 

Jesus fu***** Christ. She's telling me she wants to get back together yet she's still thinking like she's single and doesn't think that if she made out with someone in Paris it would be a problem?

 

I can't write any more - my head is just going to explode.

[cassiana]

God! now i'm annoyed. She sounds very manipulative.

I reckon the other guy has got to go.

Why does she suggest september? does it suit her plans?

I think you should rattle her cage.

If she's single in Paris, then youre single wherever you are capiche!

Why don't you go out and see if there are nicer girls out there and have a bit of fun for yourself. Let her see what it feels like and maybe you just might meet someone who isn't so self-centred. It will give you confidence too.

She cheated on you. She can't expect you to get over it when she wants you to. I would compare it to someone breaking your leg. They can't stand over you and say oops sorry and expect those magic words to instantly mend it. Nor would they get annoyed because a month later you are still on crutches and sheesh they told you they were sorry ages ago.

I would argue that a broken heart takes alot longer to mend than a leg yet people dont give it the same consideration.

Good Luck.

[Jaimie]

Thanks for your thoughts Cassiana. I agree with you - at the very least the other Guy has got to go! I don't think that's too much to ask. She just doesn't see how continuing her association with him can hurt me or our "relationship". She tells me that she speaks to him as a friend about us. She discusses US with the guy! She makes out that none of her other friends are avaialble for her to vent her feelings to.

 

Every sunner she goes home for 2 months and always comes back in September. We live together so that suits her plans. I've told her again today that when she comes back she has to moven out and that after everything she's ben saying there's just no way we're trying again. I want to stick to that but I ache for her. I still love her. I want to forget her but it's so hard. I don't feel like dating anyone else. I should but I just can't build the enthusiasm to do it. I've been invited out by friends almost every day over the last 7 days but I've always made excuses. I just feel so miserable that everything is ending like this.

 

I could try again with her in Sptember but the fact is she would still be in contact with the guy. It's not enough for me. If she wants me then it has to be on my terms - not hers. Doing it though is a different story.

 

Thanks again for your advice.

[Jaimie]

I've told her once again just now that we are OVER. There's no going back. No more chances. No reconciliation. I told her to move on and get on with her life. She said she couldn't and that she would bug me for the whole summer to prove that she cares and wants us back together. I said it would be futile if she did that because I've given her every chance to start to rebuild trust and she hasn't taken it.

 

I was pretty strong about it - it's wasn't softly/softly - We were really going at it. Maybe I've pushed her away now? Not what I want because I want her back but to be honest I don't really think I will be able to take her back.

 

Each time I try and start NC she bombards me with calls and emails. I should just ignore them and I do for the most part but always at the end I reply to an email or answer her call and the whole thing just goes round in circles. I know why I give in in the end - I don't really want to lose her.

 

I just can't get over the fact she's still in contact with the guy she cheated with. She can't give him up. Only if we get back together. How disrespectful is that? If she really believed in us and wanted us back together she would be doing everything she could surely?

 

Why can't I let go...?

[JustPlainSad]

For myself, if a girl cheated on me she would be gone and there would be no going back at all. Thats just me. I would not be able to EVER let her live it down. The visions that would make me have would be impossible to get over.

 

You have to really look at yourself and your well being to see if you can completely let it go. If there is a slight chance to not let it go then there is no chance to let it go. You will continually think about it and it will come out in your actions or attitude. Thinking of it once is enough to light the fuse of dynomite argument.

[Beec]

Jaimie,

 

I think you just need to set your footdown and say: these are the things I need to see: 1, 2, 3 . . . . List them. If you are not willing to do this, don't bother me, because I cannot consider trusting you. End of story. If I receive communications from you that want to do something less, I will consider them a rejection of all. If you are not serious about this or break these things, forget it.

 

I will not wait forever for you to make up your mind.

 

If you do not accept these terms, your stuff will be in boxes when you come back. Please arrange for a hotel, until you find another place to live.

 

If you wanted him or someone else and not me, then you should have broken up with me. Instead, you cheated.

[Jaimie]

Good advice beec. I've already done what you suggest. I laid it on the line for her. Said that if she doesn't adhere to what I want then she'll be moving out in September. The only things I asked of her were...

 

1. Give up the guy. Stop the contact with him.

 

She refuses. She states everything is innocent between them. They're just friends. He's lonely she says. She needs someone to just talk to without them being judgemental about what she's done. She says if we get back together she'll stop contacting him.

 

2. Let me see the emails she's been exchanging. If they are innocent and

she's telling the truth then she wouldn't have a problem with that.

 

She refused. Despite repeatedly telling me that their emails were "plain, non affectionate and innocent" she wouldn't show them to me. She said that "if I saw them then there is no way I'd take her back" Surely this means she lied about the content of the emails at the very least and her feelings for him?!

 

3. Prove to me that she's totally committed to making us work.

 

I told her if she really wants to save us to get on a plane and come home. She made excuse after excuse: My parents don't want me to. I don't have enough money etc.

 

At this stage, I don't feel any committment to rebuilding our trust coming from her. Yet she still goes on about giving her another chance in Spetember and saying this will make us stronger etc.

 

I just wish I had the strength to start forgetting about her. I've been reasonable. Sounds to me like she is still confused about what she wants.

 

Aaaargh!

 

I know it's down to me now. I guess I just need to let her go and start thinking about the future. As you guys know tough, when you;re oin love that's the hardest thing.

[Beec]

She needs someone to just talk to without them being judgemental about what she's done.

 

That's because what she did was WRONG. And she does not want to be told that anymore. It was and she should be told it was wrong.

[saltwatergirl]

This is ridiculous. She wont stop talking to him and she wont show you the emails???? You have no choice but to end this and move on.

 

If she truly wanted you back, she would jump on the things you suggested in a heartbeat. If I had done this, and regretted it, and wanted my man back, I'd be fighting for my life right now. But she is doing nothing.

 

This is only a smokescreen she's giving you. Nothing behind that screen but puppets.

[Jaimie]

I know you're right Saltwatergirl.

 

It just amazes me she can't see that what she's doing is wrong and damaging to us. She sounds sincere when she says she wants us to get back together but then she won't make any concessions AT ALL.

 

I've ended it already and I need to move on. Hopefully the strenght to truly believe what I'm saying will arrive soon.

[MrMikeWikowski]

Good on you. You have to move on. It is very, very hard, but you must.

 

Get out now while you can. Trust me. I stayed because I believed what she told me - I wanted to believe.

 

Seeing the truth is not always what you want to see, but eventually you shall see it anway, so make the move.

 

Good luck and be strong. I know it is so painful. Believe in yourself, and you will make it.

 

Mike

[Jaimie]

Thanks for the advice Mike.

 

I read through your story and can see where you're coming from. I hope things have worked out for you.

 

No matter how many times I try and rationalise things I still come to the same conclusion: She has to go. I've done everything I can. I've given her the chance to prove she's sincere and not lying about what happened with the guy but she just proved she was lying more.

 

Tonight I'm starting to pack her stuff into boxes. I get the feeling that she's so keen to stay with me because she wants a safe harbour to return to when she comes back to London. I'm her safety net sort of thing. Well screw that. As I said, she had the chance to save it and she blew it.

 

It's so strange to do it - I feel like it's not me. It's kind of surreal...to think that two weeks ago we were contemplating our future life together and now I'm packing up her stuff. It's so hard to imagine.

 

Got to stick to it though.

[Jaimie]

I think I made a mistake...

 

I was strong for so long and now I may have handed her back the initiative. I told my GF that we were finished and that she had to move out when she returned. I was tough about it. I didn't answer her calls or texts for about 4-5 days - even though she was calling me about 20 times a day.

 

I called her last night telling her I was packing her things up. I couldn't do it though. It was too hard. Then this morning I texted her and told her I didn't pack her stuff as it was too hard. I also told her that despite everything I missed her.

 

Have I messed up? Have I given her the power back? I didn't say that she could stay - I just told her that I hadn't packed her stuff. She's already arranged a place to stay with a friend when she comes back, even though I know she doesn't want to do that.

 

The thing I'm worried about is this: She tells me she wants to get ack together in Septmeber but how will I know she's coming back for ME or just because of the convenience of our life together? I need to know that she pasionately wants to stay with me.

 

That's why I think her moving out for a while is the best idea. If she goes and then wants to come to me and live with me won't that be a more accurate indicator of her feelings than if I just let her move back in when she returns in September?

 

I'm so lost. I hate this feeling!

[Beec]

You are on the right track. Make her earn her way back into your good graces. Right now, it seems she wants to convenience of you when she is there in your area, but when she is not, you are no longer convenient, so she gets her attention elsewhere. Stick to your guns. Pack her stuff. And stop talking to her.

[Jaimie]

She sent me an email yesterday basically saying that when she returns to London she's so positive about enjoying "everything that London has to offer" and that she "hopes I'll be there too".

 

I responded by sending her an email telling her how busy I am. I described how I'm going out almost every night with friends really enthusiastically, saying "I can't remember being busier" and that it's great fun. I also told her I'm going out with a female friend on Sunday to the movies. She also happens to be Italian. All this is true but her response is not good. Or is it?

 

She usually responds to my emails but this time she hasn't. Also, she hasn't called me or made my phone ring all day. What does this mean? Does it mean she's angry or doesn't care?

 

For the last week she's been calling me incessantly - right up until I told her I didn't pack her stuff. After the email I described above she's colled o the contact.

 

Have I made a mistake telling her I'm so busy? Have I made a mistake telling her I'm going out with a girl on Sunday as a friend?

 

Any thoughts appreciated!

[rich46]

What do you mean "have i made a mistake?" If it's the truth then how can you have made a mistake? If she is going to get upset just because you are seeing a girl on sunday (especially after what she has done to you) then you are a LOT better off without her. In my opinion of course.

[Beec]

I don't see how you could have made a mistake. If she is allowed to make out with a guy then stay in contact, what are your limitations? Act like you are moving on, stop telling her anything. Let her wonder.