a question to the men re: is it ok for me to initiate the first meet?

[DN]

I let the guy ask me out.

 

Sure it's 2010 but it's hard-wired in a man's brain to chase and court the woman. if the man is interested he will ask me out. and you know what they say "you want what you can't have." a man appreciates you more if he has to work hard to get you. it's kinda like you would appreciate a new car more if you paid for it rather than iif it was just handed to you for free.

Have you not read any of the posts from men on this thread and others like it? How many times do women have to be told that what you are saying isn't true before they realise these men aren't lying.

[ut804]

that guy greg behrandt explains it well in his book "he's just not that into you". i know its just a book but its good advice and he's a man.

 

dating rules exist for a reason, because they are effective. would you want a woman who makes all the moves and calls you after a first date?

sure, women can make moves but i always hear how men prefer to do the chasing.

[DN]

that guy greg behrandt explains it well in his book "he's just not that into you". i know its just a book but its good advice and he's a man.

 

dating rules exist for a reason, because they are effective. would you want a woman who makes all the moves and calls you after a first date?

sure, women can make moves but i always hear how men prefer to do the chasing.

So you think that some guy who wrote a book to make money knows the mind of all men, including those men who say the opposite when talking about what they like for themselves?

 

If a woman wrote a book about all women that contradicted something that you know about yourself and that a lot of other women said about themselves as well - how would you feel? Would you not suspect that she doesn't know what she is talking about? Or would you assume that "well, she wrote a book so she must know what she's talking about - I must be wrong".

 

Men on this thread say they like women to do the chasing so the only reason

i always hear how men prefer to do the chasing

is because you aren't listening to those who don't say that.

[im sandra dee]

It is tough to say at this point what his intentions were. I think too many people think in clichéd romantic terms so that they think that flirtatious contact means true interest and friendship sounding contact means friendzone. However, many people who flirt have absolutely no true interest in the other person beyond fun and frolic and possibly a good lay, and many people who are more serious in their contact and don't do the whole flirting thing, may indeed be more serious about wanting to get involved with the person. I am not sure if I would use your humour on him in a call back...humour needs to be used within reason so that it is used with sincerity rather than in an effort to mask emotions or true intent.

 

Well, I decided on humour and he hasn't replied. I don't expect to hear from him. I think he was expecting me to sit by the phone and wait for his phone call last night or to call him back last night. Today I think he has given me the brush off and if that's how it's gonna be then fine. I'm looking for a man who wants to talk to me and have "live" conversation either by phone or in person and not this nonsense business of IMing/texting/emailing which kind of reminds me of a long distance relationship which I've never been in by the way and that's because I know myself and I need to see the guy and need to hear his voice. That's just me.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

that guy greg behrandt explains it well in his book "he's just not that into you". i know its just a book but its good advice and he's a man.

 

dating rules exist for a reason, because they are effective. would you want a woman who makes all the moves and calls you after a first date?

sure, women can make moves but i always hear how men prefer to do the chasing.

 

I meet a lot of women who love shopping...so if a woman wrote a book about how all women love to shop some guy might think that is the gospel truth. I can tell you that not all women love to shop...I hate shopping and I know women who also can't stand shopping. What about guys and sports. All guys love sports right? Wrong. I know plenty of men who have absolutely no interest in sports. You can't make assumptions about gender preferences because really it is about individual preferences.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Well' date=' I decided on humour and he hasn't replied. I don't expect to hear from him. I think he was expecting me to sit by the phone and wait for his phone call last night or to call him back last night. Today I think he has given me the brush off and if that's how it's gonna be then fine. I'm looking for a man who wants to talk to me and have "live" conversation either by phone or in person and not this nonsense business of IMing/texting/emailing which kind of reminds me of a long distance relationship which I've never been in by the way and that's because I know myself and I need to see the guy and need to hear his voice. That's just me.[/quote']

 

Well, you never know, you may hear from him. At any rate I agree with you that IMing/texting/emailing is a cop out when it comes to relationships. You need to interact with a real person not a computer screen.

 

Uh.........CAD, I keep waiting for you to send me that magical note but alas it never comes.......sniff sniff. lol

Lostandhurt, I did send you that magical note...but it was written with invisible ink and was intercepted by Lord Voldemort! LOL

[Lonewing]

Sure, and then be prepared to pay for the date as well, and be prepared to always be the one pursuing afterwards.

 

I know the younger guys like this kind of thing, but I've personally never known a guy who likes a woman taking the "man role". Just understand when you, it becomes a game changer, and sets the tone for the dynamic.

 

...Wait, so your mentality is, "You asked for the date, so now you have to pay for it??" Sheesh, a date with you , NO THANKS!!! Just so you know, though, if a nice girl asked me out to dinner, I'd probably still get the check, simply out of pavlovian habit. She took out HER time to want to see ME - I see check, I pay it!

 

The nice thing about a cup of coffee, as a predate interview, is that it costs no more than about 2-4 bucks per cup, and each person is pretty much on their own getting what they want. Further, it only takes about 20 to 40 minutes to drink a cup of coffee - which means when the cup is done, you can leave - or you can leave earlier if necessary - because it's a cup of coffee and it's portable - you can take it with you. A dinner meal, well, you can't just get up and walk away, because you break dinenr table ettiquette - you're locked in for an hour and the bill will be somewhere in the neighborhood of $20-$60 depending on where you go!

 

That's all the time it takes to tell if there chemistry. If there isn't, you simply tell the guy once you get home again that while you enjoyed the conversation, you didn't feel any chemistry. That one response alone and you're good, because it's pretty much bullet proof - it blames neither person, it simply means you're not interested in going any further becasue you dont feel anything - and we understand that.

 

Othewise, if those 20-40 minutes go well, then you up the ante - such as with a nice message telling him how much you enjoyed his company and how you'd love to see him again - and if he's interested too, he'll ask for the date. From there it's golden.

[Lonewing]

that guy greg behrandt explains it well in his book "he's just not that into you". i know its just a book but its good advice and he's a man.

 

dating rules exist for a reason, because they are effective. would you want a woman who makes all the moves and calls you after a first date?

sure, women can make moves but i always hear how men prefer to do the chasing.

 

Look, there's this other book called "The Game" and a second book by the same author entitled "The Rules of the Game." Now I could play by this book, which is FILLED with great dating logic. And it works well, this dating logic. The problem is, this dating logic is built upon false pretenses with ONE objective in mind - get the girl in bed. it does NOTHING for building a long lasting relationship.

 

Do you really want to keep perscribing to these outdated and out moded dating theories??

 

And another thing - the second I run into the "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" theory in a book, the sooner I am to chucking it. The very original author himself is a phony PhD, selling COmmon Myth as accepted Fact. The problem is, most of the common people accept it without even thinking for a moment to challenge it. In short, this Theory is about as good as ASTROLOGY! It has no further basis in fact other than the fact that it kind of looks like the real picture, but it isn't. It's a Myth.

 

The truth is, girls are every bit as capable in relationships as boys - and much else, including Mathematics, Engineering, Science and Technology. I do believe that's why we fought and won the civil rights movement - to free women of the patriarchy of waiting on men, and to free men of the burden of patronizing women. It's no good if women keep waffling between second class citizenry and self-pedastalled royalty.

 

It's not hardwired in our brains - the only part hardwired into my brain is "GIR---Squirrel!" Have you seen the movie "Up?" Exactly. Why leave fate up to chance? Particularly, the chance that I will automatically know you're interested in me? I'll put it blank, for the most part, guys are CLUELESS when it comes to who's interested in them!

 

Go back and read my earlier post - you see, while the girl may initiate the predate coffee interview, the way the girl responds to that date can allow for the man to then take this initiative you claim men need. 'I really enjoyed our time and I'd love to see you again" is a sincere confidence booster and if he doesn't reply to that, he's either not interested or he's a dense luddite. It's practically failsafe for him to come back with 'hey, I really liked you too - dinner on Friday?" Poof, YOU initiated the contact, but HE initiated the Date. Or at least, he THINKS he initiated the date!! You got wha tyou want, he got what he wants - master this skill, and I guarantee you will have a great LIFE - not just a great Date!!

[im sandra dee]

Well, you never know, you may hear from him. At any rate I agree with you that IMing/texting/emailing is a cop out when it comes to relationships. You need to interact with a real person not a computer screen.

 

Crazyaboutdogs, do you really think so? I don't think he'll call back. Whatever is going on with him in his life right now, I don't think he has any room for me in it not even as a friend. Otherwise he would pick up the phone and call me. I am disappointed yet again. Men are always disappointing. This time I didn't do a single thing wrong. And to be treated this way, it feels like * * * * .

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Crazyaboutdogs' date=' do you really think so? I don't think he'll call back. Whatever is going on with him in his life right now, I don't think he has any room for me in it not even as a friend. Otherwise he would pick up the phone and call me. I am disappointed yet again. Men are always disappointing. This time I didn't do a single thing wrong. And to be treated this way, it feels like * * * * .[/quote']

 

I have found it is better not to have any high expectations from people when dating, especially at the beginning.

[im sandra dee]

I have found it is better not to have any high expectations from people when dating, especially at the beginning.

 

I didn't realize that it's such a high expectation to talk to someone on the phone. It's the only way I'd get a sense of whether we're still clicking either romantically or for casual dating or as friends even.

 

I don't think he'll call. If I ever find myself in this situation again with a man, I want to be better prepared for what to expect. I want to be on the same page from the start with the guy, you know. Is that even possible?

[Lonewing]

I didn't realize that it's such a high expectation to talk to someone on the phone. It's the only way I'd get a sense of whether we're still clicking either romantically or for casual dating or as friends even.

 

I don't think he'll call. If I ever find myself in this situation again with a man, I want to be better prepared for what to expect. I want to be on the same page from the start with the guy, you know. Is that even possible?

 

 

Even a phonecall is not enough.

 

There's no substitute for the real deal, in the flesh, face to face meeting. Chemistry is a matter of physics, and physics doesn't not happen experiementally if thetwo bodies never interact. Everything up to then is conjecture, apperation and pure theory. The emails and phonecalls are indeed necessary to get that first date or predate, but ultimately, they are not the date itself. A person could indeed be terrible on email and on the phone - both are learnable skills and thus neither are personality traits.

[im sandra dee]

Even a phonecall is not enough.

 

There's no substitute for the real deal, in the flesh, face to face meeting. Chemistry is a matter of physics, and physics doesn't not happen experiementally if thetwo bodies never interact. Everything up to then is conjecture, apperation and pure theory. The emails and phonecalls are indeed necessary to get that first date or predate, but ultimately, they are not the date itself. A person could indeed be terrible on email and on the phone - both are learnable skills and thus neither are personality traits.

 

Yes, I know in person is best, of course but talking at the phone at least gives me an idea if we're on the same page about seeing each in person.

 

Maybe I need to ask more questions up front before I decide to meet a man.

 

I'm gonna create a new thread - question to the men about a woman drilling questions before agreeing to meet.

[Ariel85]

I am disappointed yet again. Men are always disappointing. This time I didn't do a single thing wrong. And to be treated this way' date=' it feels like * * * * .[/quote']

 

SD - do you think you'd feel less disappointed if you weren't the one to initiate things? Part of the reason I like guys to make the moves is that it eliminates wondering about their interest, or being upset in situations like this one.

[im sandra dee]

SD - do you think you'd feel less disappointed if you weren't the one to initiate things? Part of the reason I like guys to make the moves is that it eliminates wondering about their interest, or being upset in situations like this one.

 

Hey wait a sec... I may have been the one to initiate at first but then he initiated calls to me and we saw each other. He did pursue me. But now I think he has stopped or he's slowing things down to see other people. Sadly, he hasn't said anything to me about it and that part is unfair. I should further that I think it's unfair only because he has been texting me often enough to make me feel that he's interested in me. But maybe I missed the mark on that. Maybe he texts when he's bored. Here I was thinking it's because I'm so great and attractive. Right!

[Lonewing]

Yes, I know in person is best, of course but talking at the phone at least gives me an idea if we're on the same page about seeing each in person.

 

Maybe I need to ask more questions up front before I decide to meet a man.

 

I'm gonna create a new thread - question to the men about a woman drilling questions before agreeing to meet.

 

From my very limited insight, the number of questions really won't make much difference, particularly if you are using dating sites. They have already put a whole bunch out there, so you already have the basic lay of the land. The added impact of voice alone will not make that much difference - You'll only be thinking about the quality of that voice on the phone, as a judgement of what you like. It's not completely accurate, no more so than emails or text or even IM.

 

"Curse of the Singles Table." I'd almost refer to it as the Online Dater Bible, if it weren't only one person's experience!

 

Now about your disappointment: the more questions, contact, etc you have before the in person meeting, the more you allow your expectations to grow towards something you have internally manufacturered as opposed to what is really there. Henc eyou will be more disappointed than if you simply went and met them. It's not a full blown date, it's Coffee. Yes, it's a dating interview - hence why it makes so many people uncomfortable, even though they are unable to pinpoint the reason. and in 20 minutes, you have all the answers you need - those for yourself if you want to see them again, and those of the other person if the other perosn wants to see you again. And it's a minimal amount of investment so you can move on quicker from an unsuccessful prospect.

 

Oh yeah...this thing about people who don't close their relaitonships; People nowadays are in general lacking in manners. I have the same problem, only with girls. When bad manners and self focused attitudes become accepted social behavior, our culture is in trouble...

[oldenoughtoknow]

I think it's fine for you to initiate the first contact. Lots of women are cautious online (for good reason) and like to talk and talk and talk before meeting someone in person. That can be a bit overboard for my thinking. And, it can make some men slow to make the suggestion, as they don't want to appear pushy or like a weirdo or a date rapist in waiting. If you give them that green light and then they still hem and haw, forget about that one and move on. He's either married or has more issues than you'd care to ever deal with.

[im sandra dee]

Well, you never know, you may hear from him. At any rate I agree with you that IMing/texting/emailing is a cop out when it comes to relationships. You need to interact with a real person not a computer screen.

 

Crazyaboutdogs, well you were right. I heard from him. He called me this morning and told me what's been going on with him and he expressed his interest in seeing me again. That's all I needed. To hear it from him. Initiated by him. What a huge relief! Having said that, as much as I like him and want to see him again, I think it's in my best interest to keep meeting new people. I don't want to have too high expectations on one man so early on.

[SometimesShy]

Part of the reason I like guys to make the moves is that it eliminates wondering about their interest

 

This is exactly why I prefer for a woman to make the first move. I've met too many flaky women that have no idea about what they want... And like many modern men, I hate the chase, so the first sign of a woman playing hard to get, I immediately head for the door... Bye bye! Have a nice life!