Would you consider dating an ex-convict?

[DN]

A drinking problem is usually defined as someone who drinks to excess because they can't help themselves, their need for alcohol outweighs the negative impact on their life. The CAGE questionaire is often used as a guideline for those who think they may be a problem drinker:

 

1. Have you ever felt you should cut down on your drinking?

2. Have people annoyed you by criticising your drinking?

3. Have you ever felt bad or guilty about your drinking?

4. Have you ever had a drink first thing in the morning to steady your nerves or get rid of a hangover (eye-opener)?

 

Answering yes to two or more questions would indicate a problem drinker. But the fact that someone may have driven while over the limit does not necessarily mean that they have an addiction to alcohol or are a problem drinker. It means they made a stupid, reckless and dangerous decision but that is not necessarily the same thing. Nor does it mean that they can't learn from it.

[jenny_mcs]

Yes DN, but do you really think that someone whose drinking led to someone's death would not answer "yes" to questions 1 and 3?

[alive_inside]

LOL, yes, that's what the words "I think" mean. Look- you started this thread to get peoples' opinions - why are you getting so defensive when we offer them?

 

I guess I just am surprised at all the somewhat harsh assumptions that some people made... saying he has a drinking problem and that he doesn't value the gift of life? I mean, I barely even know the guy, I suppose I give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

[Atrium]

I kind of agree now that you put it that way jenny. I doubt I'd ever touch alcohol again out of disgust if I killed someone, even if I didn't have a drinking problem

[alive_inside]

I think it would be a problem if he continued to abuse alcohol. He told me upfront that he doesn't feel the need to get drunk anymore and only does it socially.

[alive_inside]

You know what. I don't know why I'm standing up for him and defending him. Obviously I like him, but something is bothering me. When I brought it up again before we got off the phone, he got upset and said that my reaction has been the worst out of all the people he's told. I didn't even think I was being out of line. I've been tip-toeing around it because I don't want to offend him but I thought I had the right to know if this is someone I potentially want to date.

[DN]

Yes DN, but do you really think that someone whose drinking led to someone's death would not answer "yes" to questions 1 and 3?

It says "drinking' which means continuous drinking as a habit. No addictions counselor would consider someone who had a conviction for a dui to be an alcoholic unless the usage was continuous.

[DN]

You know what. I don't know why I'm standing up for him and defending him. Obviously I like him, but something is bothering me. When I brought it up again before we got off the phone, he got upset and said that my reaction has been the worst out of all the people he's told. I didn't even think I was being out of line. I've been tip-toeing around it because I don't want to offend him but I thought I had the right to know if this is someone I potentially want to date.

What was your reaction - what did you actually say?

[jenny_mcs]

It says "drinking' which means continuous drinking as a habit. No addictions counselor would consider someone who had a conviction for a dui to be an alcoholic unless the usage was continuous.

 

I think an addictions counselor would look at someone who's drinking led to someone's death - and continues to drink- as someone with a drinking problem. But since neither of us are addiction counselors, I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

[jenny_mcs]

You know what. I don't know why I'm standing up for him and defending him. Obviously I like him, but something is bothering me. When I brought it up again before we got off the phone, he got upset and said that my reaction has been the worst out of all the people he's told. I didn't even think I was being out of line. I've been tip-toeing around it because I don't want to offend him but I thought I had the right to know if this is someone I potentially want to date.

I think, yeah, you're upset because you met a guy you like, and then, wham, out of the blue, here's this rather shocking piece of information. It sucks! And your (and most people's) inclination is try to find a way to make it OK to still like and date him. Of course it's up to you, and maybe you will still date him, but for me the fact that he continues to drink after his drinking ended the life of his friend, is a huge red flag.

[alive_inside]

What was your reaction - what did you actually say?

 

My very first reaction...I was speechless. He didn't go into much detail about it and I was initially scared and was trying not to judge him negatively for it. Then today I thought about it more and decided I wanted to ask him about it in depth. He even said at one point that if I didn't want to talk to him anymore, he'd understand. I convinced him I didn't want that, and later on he admitted that even if I did, he would have called me tomorrow anyway.

 

Just feeling very conflicted.

[itsallgrand]

Honestly, I think especially since you are very open here about starting out with trust issues, having been hurt before, and that you tend to get yourself in over your head in sketchy situations with guys - - with all that info upfront and your doubt to start the thread - - it doesn't seem like a smart move, IMO, for you to get involved with him any further. At least not now.

As a friend? Potentially.

But if you are asking if this situation and getting more involved with him has a higher chance of hurt along the way than others, well I'd have to say - YES. You are starting out in delicate territory, with someone - regardless of his present behavior or remorse of the past and all that - he is an ex-convict and always will be now. That experience will always be a part of him, in a way, and is something that can never be changed.

 

Does it impact your ability to trust him? If you start off having a hard time to trust, why make it even harder, unlike you enjoy being hurt and high risk situations, gambles. ? To me, it seems like you are going with "the hell with it, I'll roll the dice with this and see how it works cause i like him and damn how it hurts me anyways".

 

honest opinion.

[alive_inside]

I think, yeah, you're upset because you met a guy you like, and then, wham, out of the blue, here's this rather shocking piece of information. It sucks! And your (and most people's) inclination is try to find a way to make it OK to still like and date him. Of course it's up to you, and maybe you will still date him, but for me the fact that he continues to drink after his drinking ended the life of his friend, is a huge red flag.

 

That's true. It's not even the situation itself, it's the way he talks about it that bothers me. He just seems like he doesn't want to talk about it and gets annoyed if I ask or bring it up. I think it's because he knows what he did was so unspeakably wrong. He definitely had enough time to think about it, he probably just wants to move on from it. Then I try to put myself in his position...I don't know.

[DN]

I think an addictions counselor would look at someone who's drinking led to someone's death - and continues to drink- as someone with a drinking problem. But since neither of us are addiction counselors, I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

As it happens I am, I have an honours diploma in addictions and community service.

[jenny_mcs]

As it happens I am, I have an honours diploma in addictions and community service.

 

Then I'm surprised at your take on this situation. The 4 CAGE questions you posted are not by any means the only questions used to determine whether or not someone has a drinking problem. Many organizations, including the CDC, use as one of their main criteria whether or not your alcohol use has negatively impacted your life- jobs, relationships, community standing, etc. I'm sure killing someone in a drunk driving incident did all of those things.

[DN]

Then I'm surprised at your take on this situation. The 4 CAGE questions you posted are not by any means the only questions used to determine whether or not someone has a drinking problem. Many organizations, including the CDC, use as one of their main criteria whether or not your alcohol use has negatively impacted your life- jobs, relationships, community standing, etc. I'm sure killing someone in a drunk driving incident did all of those things.

Yes, I am aware that there are many questionnaires. But one swallow doesn't make a summer and unless there is a continuous problem use it is not considered alcoholism. If this man had more than one DUI, had lost relationships, been fired from jobs as a result of continual use that would be a different issue. But a one-off instance of a DUI is bad judgment, stupid and criminal but in and of itself it no more makes him an alcoholic than one joint makes someone a drug addict.

[Elaine Marley]

I agree with DN. My degree is in psych, but I have studied addiction and what he lists as the signs of addiction/dependancy is what's generally accepted in my experience. I've known people who got DUIs in the past who were not alcoholics, but made a very stupid decision. Alcoholics often get DUIs but people who get DUIs are not necessarily alcoholics.

 

FWIW, my brother killed someone in a car accident. He was not drunk at the time. A homeless man ran in front of his car while he was driving home from work. Of course it affected him deeply, but one of the ways he coped was humor. I suppose some would think that meant he didn't feel much about taking a life.

 

You just can't tell by this man's outward expression how he feels about the incident. My brother was deeply affected, but he did not show it.

[Pressfit]

Sounds like Vehicular Manslaughter or Involuntary Manslaughter: "Causing the death of someone without prior intent, malice, or aforethought.

 

The specifics can be varied because he could have done nothing more than provided the alcohol, and not have been in actual control of the vehicle.

 

He killed his "friend" through a mistake. Inappropriate behavior on his part and he paid for it with 2 years time out of his life where he had time to live that mistake every single waking moment for that two years. What person could go through that without regretting it being on their mind at sometime everyday? He paid for it with time and he seems to have thought about respecting your feelings enough to get it out in the open early on. That's a brave thing to do sometimes considering the cowardly, weasely people these days that refuse to accept they have ever done anything wrong their entire lives.

 

I ask the question: Would it have been better if he simply had NOT gone to prison but had a really good lawyer to get off without spending any time at all where going free is simply a matter of how much money you happen to have ? Then put off saying anything for months or years.

 

Most people really have no idea how difficult it is to go completely through life without commiting some form of crime that can result in being put in jail or prison. I was astonished when I first learned this myself in college.

The truth be known about them, if the truth were documented and given to the proper authorities, it is fact that almost "80 percent" of all people, men and women included, commit misdemeanors or felonies at some point in their lives without even realizing it. Those are the actual real-world numbers directly from my Criminal Justice University classes.

[alive_inside]

It seems like there are varied opinions on this. Well, I am seeing him tonight and I'm going in with the mindset that Pressfit's perspective has given me. I'm just going to take it slow and get to know him better. If for any reason I feel he isn't genuine I will do what's best for me and not pursue him. But...I enjoy talking to him very much and I'm hoping that with time I can see him for the person he truly is. I don't think it's fair to cut him off before he even has a chance to prove himself.

[Miss Firecracker]

it is fact that almost "80 percent" of all people, men and women included, commit misdemeanors or felonies at some point in their lives without even realizing it. Those are the actual real-world numbers directly from my Criminal Justice University classes.

 

I'm not surprised at all. My husband spent a night in jail when he was young, after drinking enough to pass out in his car in a parking lot. We would drink and drive a lot when younger, before there were very strict laws to control DUI. Those were different times for certain. Our parents thought nothing of having a few and driving home from their friends' gatherings. They weren't alcoholics, just doing what most people did.

[LightbulbSun]

My uncle was killed by a drunk driver. For that reason, I wouldn't date someone who drinks and drives, regardless of whether or not they were arrested for it.

 

That being said, people make mistakes. Killing someone over drunk driving is different from killing someone from, like, stabbing them or shooting them. It's not like your love interest really wanted to kill anyone.

 

That being said, I'd be cautious, although I don't think you should rule him out completely. He may just be fine.

 

And as far as the misdemeanor thing goes, I'm not surprised. I jaywalk all the time...in fact, to get to a busstop on the other side of the street from where I live, I HAVE to jaywalk. Doesn't mean that I'm a criminal.

[BriarRose]

I would proceed, but with caution. It would also depend on how much he drinks right now. I would not date a heavy drinker (maybe he no longer drinks? I would certainly hope so).

[JazzTheme]

He killed his "friend" through a mistake. Inappropriate behavior on his part and he paid for it with 2 years time out of his life where he had time to live that mistake every single waking moment for that two years. What person could go through that without regretting it being on their mind at sometime everyday?

 

I think this is not true to reality. There are many ways for people to put guilty thoughts out of their minds or minimize their own guilt, even when they've had time to think about it. There are also many people who simply don't care very much about what theyve done to hurt others.

 

But, I'm not saying this person is necessarily that way. Talking about it upfront is a good sign.

[GoneCrazy]

Simply put...NO. I've been drunk time and time again i never once thought "i'm good i can drive"

[JenniferG]

I dont know either. I just did a public record check on the guy I am starting to get to know and it showed that he's had 7 criminal offenses in the last 10 years but it doesnt say what. Of course I cant ask him or that will probably really turn him off that I am looking up that kind of info on him. But I really wonder what he got in trouble for.