Online dating frustrations

[newwave]

Would it be reasonable to say that us guys are really over-eager when it comes to dating in general, especially online? I feel that if all men were to just slam on the brakes, we'd see all these gender-roles and patterns reverse. Perhaps for the better.

 

Many men are way too aggressive at first. I get scared when a guy goes way too fast because my experience is that these relationships fizzle fast.

[Philos]

Many men are way too aggressive at first. I get scared when a guy goes way too fast because my experience is that these relationships fizzle fast.

 

You're so desensitized to it, thats the problem. Any generic message gets deleted. Any wink gets shot down. Any unsincere looking message is erased.

 

Those aren't aggressive things. Those are guys trying to reach out and contact you.

 

If I went back to every relationship in my life, friendship and with my ex, and to every chance meeting of people, and decided whether or not I wanted to talk with those people just off the first thing they said, my life would have been completely different, and I probably wouldn't have meet some of the close friends I had or have, or my ex.

[newwave]

You're so desensitized to it, thats the problem. Any generic message gets deleted. Any wink gets shot down. Any unsincere looking message is erased.

 

Those aren't aggressive things. Those are guys trying to reach out and contact you.

 

If I went back to every relationship in my life, friendship and with my ex, and to every chance meeting of people, and decided whether or not I wanted to talk with those people just off the first thing they said, my life would have been completely different, and I probably wouldn't have meet some of the close friends I had or have, or my ex.

 

When one gets hundreds of responses (as I did) then any reason to delete someone occurs. If a guy is interested he'll send me a message, not a wink. A wink tells me he thinks I'm cute that's all.

[carra]

When one gets hundreds of responses (as I did) then any reason to delete someone occurs. If a guy is interested he'll send me a message, not a wink. A wink tells me he thinks I'm cute that's all.

This is the main problem. Online dating done correctly could give good results, but some women get so much attention that they skip the whole process: watching your profile, reading about you, actually paying attention to your message... Guys face the opposite problem: women never respond so they become too scarce. Men eventually either put too much effort (and being clingy), or send too many messages that become generic.

 

This is just the same thing that happens in real life, but magnified: "approaching" a woman in the internet is so easy that even the shyest guys can do it without effort.

 

I think that is the real problem: no effort. Everybody wants to date without effort, to find someone without effort, to love without effort. Women don't understand that they need to put some effort to actually get to know a man, and they often discard men who would make them happy just because these men don't get her attention immediately. Men have learned about this behavior, so they try to "impress women". And they fail because they don't understand that a woman wants them to actually care about their feelings.

 

Meanwhile, many people (like me) find it ever harder to date, both online and in person. Doomed, almost...

[AuthenticAuthor]

I think that is the real problem: no effort. Everybody wants to date without effort, to find someone without effort, to love without effort. Women don't understand that they need to put some effort to actually get to know a man, and they often discard men who would make them happy just because these men don't get her attention immediately. Men have learned about this behavior, so they try to "impress women". And they fail because they don't understand that a woman wants them to actually care about their feelings.

 

I'm not too sure whether I agree with you completely. I recently posted on a different thread that men initiate because they are willing (then,like you said, overdo it) and women don't initiate because they know us guys will do it for them. Hence, I believe it's more of an issue with effort being disproportional; one side is way too aggressive whereas the other is way too passive. Men certainly put effort into dating; just look at the lengths we'll go online to prove this.

 

Personally, I kinda understand what women are going through. If I suddenly had hundreds of women e-mailing me for a date, I would be a bit disturbed by it myself. There is such a thing as too much attention.

 

Of course, it is a lot better than having no one e-mailing you for anything at all...

[LoveSoDeep]

I don't get bombarded with messages but here's my take guys.

 

I would rather have a sincere e-mail than a wink or a "hey what's up?" any day. That being said if the guy is clearly my type and he winks or sends a generic message I will still respond b/c hey he sent the message so he's trying I might as well give it a shot too.

 

I'm in my 30's and I know what I'm attracted to and what I'm not so I'm not going to wast some poor guys time if I know there's a really good chance I won't click with him.

 

I think some guys are a little unrealistic in the girls they message....for instance my brother likes a type that will almost never go for the type of guy he is...so he gets really frustrated. If he tried different types maybe he would have better luck...maybe not but it's worth a shot.

 

Maybe we should start a free dating site help group. I'd volunteer to view anyone's profile and tell them what I think might be helping or hindering them (if anyone wanted my opinion that is lol)

[Leftright]

I think that is the real problem: no effort. Everybody wants to date without effort, to find someone without effort, to love without effort. Women don't understand that they need to put some effort to actually get to know a man, and they often discard men who would make them happy just because these men don't get her attention immediately. Men have learned about this behavior, so they try to "impress women". And they fail because they don't understand that a woman wants them to actually care about their feelings.

 

Meanwhile, many people (like me) find it ever harder to date, both online and in person. Doomed, almost...

 

You do bring up a valid point. Most women expect full undivided attention and if they don't get that, they'll move on. Guys seem to try too hard at first, and bombard their potential date with too much, and that seems to be why we have this vicious dating cycle. It's all too common.

 

For me and this somewhat endless single life of mine, I had to accept the most likely possibility that I will be single my whole life...but that didn't cause me to give up completely. I joined an online dating site again a little over a month ago, and I'm noticing the patterns too. ...of the hundreds of emails and winks i send out, I'll be lucky if one gets back. It's hit and miss. You don't know if the next one you message is the right one for you. Yes it's painful most of the time...but you know what? Life isn't fair, and it's chock full of pain and strife. ...but it's how you deal with it that separates the winners from the losers.

 

-Leftright.

[newwave]

This is a problem many guys don't realize. I've had guys contact me to complain about the "fat ugly girls online". Then when I see their photo they are exactly the way they describe. Like I've mentioned before, the reality is if a guy is below average looking he probably won't get a hot girl. Someone will say there are exceptions, and there are, but generally speaking people tend to marry people on their same level lookswise. I'm not saying date someone one isn't interested in, just be more open.

 

I too have a type I like and generally stay within that range. I like nerdy, intellectual looking guys who probably know more about who invented the computer over who won the first World Series. I am not attracted to big "teddy bear" types who are hairy, so when they email me I will often either respond back (if the email is nice), ignore/delete or just say not interested. It's nothing personal, I just don't want to waste their time. These tend to be the types I see online, which is why I usually avoid online. Of course I have other requirements (never been married, no kids) along with things I strongly prefer and these make the list smaller, which is good.

[carra]

I would rather have a sincere e-mail than a wink or a "hey what's up?" any day.

That's what I used to think, but no women online seem to appreciate sincerity lately. Might be just me, but I don't think so...

 

I think some guys are a little unrealistic in the girls they message....for instance my brother likes a type that will almost never go for the type of guy he is...so he gets really frustrated. If he tried different types maybe he would have better luck...maybe not but it's worth a shot.

Honestly I don't think that's the problem. From my experience, I can say that a few years ago I found 2 girlfriends online. Nowadays, it is just SO different. No matter how much I lower the bar, or how open my mind is to different women. It is just not working.

 

In any case, it is women who actually are way too picky. And it's natural, given that they have plenty of men to choose from.

[wsim]

Agreed with the above post. I have messaged all sorts of girls (some unattractive/ugly ones, average-looking, attractive, etc.) and with similar interests. Still come away empty handed. I am competing with hundreds of guys so the odds are never in my favour to begin with. It is hard to argue that girls can pretty much guarantee a date if they choose so. Lots of guys actually do put the time and effort but eventually turn away after being greatly discouraged by the lack of replies. I've been played many times by women on these sites that I can't take anything for granted anymore. I can probably only take a few more weeks of this and then I'm giving it up. No more.

 

I have not done anything wrong when it comes to online dating. Like all other dating avenues, it never works out for me. The curse continues, lol.

[LoveSoDeep]

Yes women are picky...but you know what? So are men! We all want what we want.

 

When I was young I went out with lots of guys I wasn't sure I would like...and I learned a lot. I'm not going to say I'm done learning but there are some lessons I really don't feel the need to learn over and over again. It's nothing personal if a person isn't interested so you just have to not take it personally and move on. Keep sending out those winks and messages or saying hi to women at the coffee shop until you find someone that is interested. That's what dating is all about. If you're getting too discouraged take a break if you let it get you down you'll just be filled with negative energy and it will show through.

[carra]

Yes women are picky...but you know what? So are men! We all want what we want.

What kind of people are picky? The ones who can afford it, because they have options to choose from. There ARE some men in this situation, yes, but they are a minority. In the case of women however, it is much more common. Pretty average girls are used to being approached in real life, and to being messaged online. On the net, the situation is so bad for most guys that sometimes even plain unattractive women can afford to get picky.

 

And then women complain because none of the hundreds of guys that message them are "their type", none have "anything in common" with them, etc... It seems to me you just have too many options to choose from and you can no longer see what makes a person special.

 

Ever heard of the "paradox of choice"? This is a clear case of it...

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[The Wire]

I don't want to label women as being picky, coz I know us guys are as well, nor do I want to sound like I'm generalizing, but I do think us guys are probably more open to a wider variety of girls who don't quite fit our criteria, conversely I've started to wonder lately whether women just aren't as flexible with theirs, I'm not saying people shouldn't have standards, but there needs to be a little room for movement. Why might it be this way? Who knows, perhaps it's a slightly over romanticized view of what meeting someone online is suppose to be like, instant sparks, mutual interests, perfect age, height, body type, etc. Or is it simply too many options to choose from? Just a theory, I'm no expert though.

[LoveSoDeep]

I'm sorry you guys feel like you're getting shot down but think about this if a girl is going to delete your e-mail for what you see as petty criteria or only minor devations from their "type" or ideal....then are those the women you really want anytihng to do with?

 

I think if you look at it differetnly it might help. Really you should be thanking these women for showing their shallowness right away and alerting you to the fact that they are not what you want so that you are not wasting your precious time on them. I'm perfectly fine if guys who I do not respond to see me that way but honestly if I think a guy might be a good match I will overlook a bad picture or a cheesey pick up line....and I'm not saying he has to be a 8 on the 10 point scale I'm looking at profile info, interests and background. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and one quick coffee date to see if there might really be anything there....and even though I have never found an SO this way I'm going to continue to do it b/c "you just never know!"

 

When I am very active on PoF I get about 1-2 messages a day (not hundreds like you guys seem to think) and I respond to about half of them. If the guy stops sending me more questions or does not suggest we have a quick coffee by about the 3rd message I lose interest. If I am really interested in him I'll suggest coffee by the 3rd or fourth exchange....and I've been to a quick coffee date maybe once month so far....So I'm not turning guys down b/c I know there are a plethora to choose from...I'm turning them down b/c they really aren't what I am looking for. I'd rateher wait years to find the right one then go out every night of the week with the wrong ones.

[carra]

I'm sorry you guys feel like you're getting shot down but think about this if a girl is going to delete your e-mail for what you see as petty criteria or only minor devations from their "type" or ideal....then are those the women you really want anytihng to do with?

 

I think if you look at it differetnly it might help. Really you should be thanking these women for showing their shallowness right away and alerting you to the fact that they are not what you want so that you are not wasting your precious time on them.

This is a possible way to see things, but I don't think it's the most appropriate. If SOME women shoot you down because of petty criteria then fine, you can assume they are not worthy and move on. Their loss.

 

But when MOST women do this to you, then you are the only one losing something here. Trying to justify this as "you would not want to be with them anyway" is just deceiving yourself. It's the same excuse people use saying that they are better being poor because money does not grant happyness. Lame...

[xxNPxx]

LoveSoDeep, some of the guys aren't saying that the girls are rejecting them for petty reasons, yet in real life it probably wouldn't happen. I have to agree. Dating online and in real life is different. Some girls who will pass over you online might feel different if they met you in person. Some of us decent guys, with fairly good looks and pretty compatible personalities don't always get replies for the messages we send. I only ever got one date and I both used OKcupid, plenty of fish, and even link removed. The only dates I received where when the women came to me first. Even after sending tons of messages. I've tried the long letters with things that interest me and I've tried short "Hey whats up?" letters. For both I received no replies. Though I do feel that race has a bit to do with it. I live in Iowa, not California.

[LoveSoDeep]

Here's my thought.... if MOST women are being that petty and shallow then maybe there's something about your profile that's throwing up a red flag that you had no idea even exsisted. If these women are not telling you why they are not responding then how are you supposed to know what to do then next time.

 

Example: a guy sent me a message he was nice looking but slightly out of my age range but I looked at his profile anyway. In his profile he made some religious comments about his relationship with his God....and I'm just not religious at all...so I knew in the long run we wouldn't be a good match. I did not respond. He was persisitant and e-mailed me again saying...he thought we had a lot in common and wanted to get to know me but....he can tell I'm not interested probably b/c of his age... and he wished me luck. At this point I wrote him back telling him it had nothing to do with his age but he seemed too religious for me. He seemed surprised that I thought he was that religious and immediately changed his profile. lol I still did not agree to meet him but he obviously didn't know he was coming off as a super religious guy. He may have been getting shot down left nd right and may never have known why. My point is maybe you should have someone read your profile and tell you what possible red flags they see. There might be something there that you didn't even realize was a red flag. Of course you have to realize that if one girl says something is a red flag for her it may not be one fore everyone and do not go changing things to make yourself seem like someone you are not but just not point out or play up the red flags.

[LoveSoDeep]

I'm not saying they are all petty reasons it just seeems like some guys think they must be petty reasons. You may be right though and I totally understand where you are coming from! I'm from the midwest and I get lots of e-mails from guys who are of different races and as much as I hate to admit it I think for a lot of women race is a factor and lots of women will not even look at the profile if the guy is a different race and that's just sad! But it's life. It sounds like you realize that though and if you are messaging women of other races you know the chances might be less.

 

If finding a partner were simple then no one still be single. It's not easy and I'm not going to settle and I don't excpect the guys to either. It's a challenge but I'm up for it b/c I want to find my life partner. If I guy is not right for me I'm going to say "next" and so should you!

 

I'm not trying to argue...I guess what I'm saying is it's totally normal to only have small success rate. If we were all getting 100s of dates we wouldn't all be single.

[carra]

Here's my thought.... if MOST women are being that petty and shallow then maybe there's something about your profile that's throwing up a red flag that you had no idea even exsisted. If these women are not telling you why they are not responding then how are you supposed to know what to do then next time.

I was not speaking about just me: the same happens to many men. So the explanation has to be another. Probably that the picture is not good enough.

 

That may sound offensive to some, yes, but we have to realize that people, in general, are shallow. Both men and women. Both online and offline. Yes, it's true that we also look for nice personality traits, but we are much more likely to notice those traits when the person is physically nice to us. It is not just about dating: you often treat fit people more respectfully than obese people. We do it unconsciously, but we do it anyway. There have been scientific studies about this.

[newwave]

The difference between online and real life is very large when it comes to options. I know several guys mentioned opening standards but that isn't always going to work either. The fact is if you have a bodytype I am not attracted to (large burly man) I'm just not going to give you a chance. Maybe I would offline once I got to know you, but with online looks make a difference. Certain things for me are not flexible and will never give you a chance online or offline (having kids is the big one). Personality makes a big difference but I'm not judging you by that online.

 

I'm sorry for you guys that have had a hard time. However, maybe some of you need to actually go after women who want your type. My profiles mention exactly what I want yet guys who don't fit this respond. Then they wonder why I don't respond back.

[LoveSoDeep]

I agree with newwave. If you're not my type....which for me means you're either significantly overweight (I'm saying 30 pounds plus), short (5'7" or under), and or bald (by choice or by nature) I'm just not going to be attracted to you so why waste your time. And it doesn't matter if I meet you in person or on-line those are three things I have tested and I just know don't do it for me.

 

By the same token if you don't like short brunettes then don't waste your time on me either....and I won't be upset because there are lots of tall blondes...and I hope you find one.

 

If you think it's an online thing then why not try meet-ups or speed dating instead? You at least get to meet people in person first.

[newwave]

I agree with newwave. If you're not my type....which for me means you're either significantly overweight (I'm saying 30 pounds plus), short (5'7" or under), and or bald (by choice or by nature) I'm just not going to be attracted to you so why waste your time. And it doesn't matter if I meet you in person or on-line those are three things I have tested and I just know don't do it for me.

 

By the same token if you don't like short brunettes then don't waste your time on me either....and I won't be upset because there are lots of tall blondes...and I hope you find one.

 

If you think it's an online thing then why not try meet-ups or speed dating instead? You at least get to meet people in person first.

 

I am not upset either when I'm not a guy's type. I am a somewhat muscular 5'7 brunette who is career focused. I'd never contact a guy looking for petite women, blondes, skinny or BBW, or women looking to be housewives. I wouldn't even consider contacting a guy looking for an age considerably older or younger than me. Yet for some unexplained reason guys who don't fit my profile at all contact me. I've had guys ask me to 'give them a chance' but why would I when the guys I really want are still out there?

[The Wire]

I'm sorry for you guys that have had a hard time. However, maybe some of you need to actually go after women who want your type. My profiles mention exactly what I want yet guys who don't fit this respond. Then they wonder why I don't respond back.

 

I think you might be in the minority then. In my experience anyway the majority of girls don't really mention what they're looking for other than the usual, funny, intelligent, family orientated, active stuff, all stuff that's fairly broad and all stuff guys can interpret as being who they are, it's a bit like the Horoscope in that sense, so what are we to do? If there's a girl who does write specifics that clearly isn't me then I'm not gonna waste my time, but most of the time the profile criteria is pretty generic. You can't always gauge whether you're what some girl is looking for, nor can we read minds. In my experience it's the majority of girls who are doing this, I come accross maybe one in 10-15 that's thoroughly specific as to what they're looking for, in that's case if we're clearly not compatible I'm not gonna waste my time or her time, but if the profile is fairly broad and I like what else she's written then I'm gonna give it a shot. It's one thing to say we should be going after our type, it's a bit difficult trying to find someone who actually writes it, as I said we can't read minds, we can only go off what we read in front of us.

[newwave]

This is why I am very specific in profiles. I will state exactly what I am looking for and will state if someone is a dad or only looking for sex not contact me. I am also blunt and will say I am attracted to nerdy intellectual types and not heavyset guys.

[mymie]

I find I have a similar issue when writing my own profile. Obviously I have ideals about what I find attractive, and interesting, and important in a potential relationship, but how specific is useful? Since I'm a guy, I do most of the message writing, while the gals mostly just read my profile and don't respond, but the point is, they'd probably pay attention to similar cues when deciding to reply or not. If I'm not terribly picky, and I'd be interested in about 60-80% of the profiles I see, at least at first glance, is it worth it to put down specifics that somebody can read, or be more general and effectively say much less about what I'm looking for? It seems the specifics are great if Ms. 99th percentile (of my ideal) comes wandering around my page, but then all the less so if Ms. 85th percentile comes by, who I would still be greatly interested in.

 

Okay, that got kinda ramble-y. Point is, do I draw a big circle and say this is the idea I'm attracted to/interested in, or put a dot somewhere and say I'm looking for people kinda close to this? Or am I thinking too much? Trying to improve my profiles mostly.