Overreaction?

[volpe]

So, I started dating a new guy almost a month ago. When we started dating, I told him I wanted to wait about three months before sex to get to know each other first. He agreed. He did say he didn't want to be sexual with anyone else. We were messing around, and getting pretty physical and all. But everytime, I would stop it. And remind him about waiting. When we'd mess around, I would keep my underwear on so that nothing else could happen.

Well, we did have sex after about only 1.5 weeks, which I did enjoy. Thing was, before this happened, I felt a slight frustration that I had to keep remind him about waiting and that he'd keep trying to take my underwear off. Once, he jokingly hid my underwear from me.

Anyways, we were talking last night. And he asked me about a convo I had with a friend, what my friend asked. And so I said, she asked me if we had sex yet. And he thought that was an interesting question. I told him that she thought I would wait longer and that yes, I was planning to wait three months, but it happened faster.

I told him that I knew when he agreed to wait three months, he seemed a bit unsure about that. He said that he was happy to wait three months, but that to be honest he would have kept trying. I was like, I don't understand if we agree to wait why you have to keep trying. And he said that he is very suave in the sack. Not sure if that is the exact word he used, but pretty much. And I said annoyed, I didn't want to think about him and other women (I was speaking about his tactics to bed women). And he said, no it's not something a woman told him after sex, but that he friend said "oh you did that? you must be very suave"

And I was annoyed. I said that with me he walked a line. If he had pressured me any more than he did, I would have felt he had disrespected me. And that I had been a little bit frustrated about the pressure.

He was surprised and said he was sorry, he didn't realize that. Then he said, well, I was just being a guy. Guy goes after girl. And that I'm beautiful so he couldn't resist trying.

Even as I write it down, I feel a little bit annoyed. Annoyed that he seemed like he thought it was actually a GOOD and acceptable thing that he was pressuring me even though I told him I wanted to wait. I'm not sure if I should bring this up at all.

I think principally, I feel a bit disappointed to hear this convo he has about bedding women with his guy friends. I also feel that he shouldn't share that type of info with me. It's o.k. to joke with your friends about sex, but to share that with me? Kind of odd, no? Am I being prudish???

[hers]

I sort of feel like you have no reason to be annoyed. You acted as though you wanted to wait, then let him get you down to panties, then say no more. Of course he was gonna keep trying. And you gave in. So you played a game and he fed into it and won. Makes sense to me.

[volpe]

I'm not annoyed about the pursuit so much as him bragging about the pursuit. And telling me how persuasive he is in bedding women (generally).

[hers]

I've learned that guys talk, just like I do with my friends. We talk about guys we've been with and I've always assumed guys talk about the girls they've been with.

[nutbrownhare]

I agree with you about the three months and waiting to get to know someone before you have sex. Not only will it make your sex more meaningful, but it will completely eliminate the players very early on.

 

Another thing is that it works best if you keep your clothes on. Undressing down to your underwear and thinking that this means nothing will happen sounds very naive to me, and then blaming him for disrespecting you makes it sound as though you're taking no responsibility for your own part in this. I can understand why he was surprised when you told him you'd felt frustrated by the pressure - when you'd already had sex with him, and enjoyed it!

 

Learn from this. If you really mean it about waiting three months, DON'T put yourself in the position where it's really difficult to refuse within 1.5 weeks. Either the guy will wait and respect you for it, or will get fed up with waiting and go off in search of someone more compliant - and you will have been shown very clearly what sort of person you're dealing with. However, given that you told him you wanted to wait but then didn't put up any real resistance will have sent a very clear message that he needn't take you very seriously. He has shown you very clearly the sort of person HE is, too. Yes, he did disrespect you - but you went along with it.

 

It's too late to turn the clock back with this particular relationship. Either continue with it, and accept that his values aren't the same as the ones you would like to have, and learn to live with that, OR leave him behind and find someone to whom you're better suited.

[OpentoLife]

I'm not annoyed about the pursuit so much as him bragging about the pursuit. And telling me how persuasive he is in bedding women (generally).

 

Unfortunately, a lot of guys do this. But, a lot of girls do it as well. He should not disrespect you by talking about his other "conquests". But one other thing, you saying you wanted to wait 3 months, but yet continually going a little further each time sent a very clear message to him. And the fact that it happened after 1 1/2 weeks, he is obviously very persuasive. But, you fed into that as well. Not saying there's anyone to blame. But, if you genuinely want to wait 3 months (or just a certain amount of time), don't put yourself in a situation where you can let your hormones get the best of you. We are all weak when it comes to our hormones. You just have to recognize the situation you're putting yourself into before things get hot and heavy and you are no longer able to think rationally.

[catfeeder]

If you pick an arbitrary date and time to have sex, then it makes no sense to be sexual with him before that time while expecting him to carry the burden of upholding your boundaries.

 

If the whole reason to wait was to get to know him better, then blaming him for being who he is before you spent enough time to learn who he is seems rather premature.

 

If you want to create a fantasy for someone else to live up to, you'll need to live up to your part in playing that out.

[Batya33]

I think both of you behaved in an immature way. You shared that conversation with your friend to test his reaction to it, and he shared his conversation as an excuse to brag about his so-called sexual prowess.

 

I disagree with the others that you behaved inappropriately on a sexual level. I was always clear about my boundaries (no intercourse until we were dating at least a few months, exclusive, with strong potential for marriage) and I expected that if I wanted to go far but stop short of having intercourse, that that was fine given our conversation - i.e. he knew where he stood so it wasn't leading on or teasing. I wouldn't feel comfortable dating a guy who would make tacky comments like that, especially in that indirect/manipulative way

 

I don't blame him for not taking you seriously - you took such a firm stand about sex and then had sex sooner than many people would who didn't believe in waiting - you haven't known him long so you might have given him the impression that you don't stay true to yourself and your values.

[volpe]

Well, I am not mad at him that we had sex. I know that I went along with it, because yes he was persuasive and enjoyed it. But he also made it clear that it was exclusive before we had sex. Anyways, I did not share the conversation with my friend to get a reaction. He asked me what she asked me so I told him. He said he was really curious about what women talk to each other about. That was it. I wasn't being manipulative.

 

I think what he said to me, however, was kind of inconsiderate. I don't talk about other people I've slept with. Quite purposefully. I don't try to make him feel insecure at all. Honestly, I'm just honest and straightforward, without any intention to manipulate.

 

I also think that my stripping down to my underwear does not mean that I am consenting to sex. What my thought was that if we agreed to wait a certain amount of time that we made that decision together. That decision was meant to deepen the relationship. And so we both had a stake in doing so. My thought was that we were both in that decision together and I felt that his continually testing my limits showed he wasn't in that decision with me. Does that make sense? I was not using sex to control or anything. But he declared so much excitement about meeting me (telling his friends and parents about me) that I knew he was interested in a serious commitment. So I thought he would help me in maintaining those boundaries. I don't think that it means I don't hold onto my values or that I even have a particular value to waiting. I am not promiscuous but I'm not prudish about it either. I don't think having sex early necessarily means that you can't have a relationship, but that I think the relationship would have a more solid foundation without early sex.

 

I should note that he is out of town for four weeks, so we are essentially only talking by phone at this point and so there isn't anything physical at all. I think, honestly, he felt it somehow necessary to sleep with before he left for that long a time.

[Ammy]

Okay a few things I have learnt recently. If a guy is attracted to you and you're making out, they tend to try and go further. This has been my experience, and the experience of many of my friends. I used to think it was "putting pressure" on me, but they will stop if you tell them too and with no resistance, they just try their luck. One guy friend told me that it is a guy thing. Acceptable or not? Well that's up to you, but I will admit that every guy I have dated has attempted more (except one, who didn't even want to kiss me and this was more of a turn off!!!).

 

Secondly you are annoyed he is talking to his friends about sex, but you are doing the exact same thing. All my friends share their sexual experiences with each other. I tell my best friends a lot of intimate detail as a way of getting their feedback, and sharing some important experiences in my life... I don't intentionally brag, but we do talk about the things we have done and how well they went so in a way that could be construed as bragging. I imagine you would also be sharing with your friends in a similar way, hence is it reasonable to expect him to keep quiet to his friends about his sexual experiences?

 

It sounds like he took on board what you said and didn't react with a sense of entitlement, but rather was a bit shocked that you were upset.. I think this is a good sign, but at the end of the day only you truly know him and you have a better sense of whether he is a decent guy who cares or not.

 

Also as far as the making out and going far but not to the point of sex, I also think this is okay. You clearly stated you didn't want to have sex early on, but that doesn't preclude other forms of physical intimacy. I am dating a guy and don't intend to take it all the way, but we make out and do other stuff... and this has been my experience with every guy I have dated (albeit I am not that experienced) but also with all my friends too. Sure the temptation increases and your guards come down, but if you feel you can resist / stop it if things go beyond your boundary, then I don't see a problem with it.

 

Ammy

[OpentoLife]

Firstly, you are correct when you say that he was being inconsiderate with talking to you about previous gf's. Unless you specifically asked him to tell you, he shouldn't be making you feel uncomfortable about that.

 

Secondly, you said that YOU wanted to wait 3 months. And that he should be helping you maintain those boundaries... well, YOU made those boundaries. It wasn't his idea to stay away from sex for those 3 months. It was yours. And while he should respectful of that, you have to understand that it was not his decision. He might have agreed to it but he didn't feel the same way. And it's obvious when he's trying to push it further. Do you think he should've stopped and said no when it's clear that neither one of you REALLY wanted to wait? You may have thought you wanted to take it slow, but if you had truly set your mind to it, you would've ended up waiting.

 

Again, being respectful of your boundaries and helping you maintain them are two different things. He didn't force you to do anything you didn't want to do. Now you might regret moving so fast, but it was the two of you who did it. Nothing to be ashamed of. Hopefully you two will become much closer and have a wonderful relationship.

[nutbrownhare]

But he declared so much excitement about meeting me (telling his friends and parents about me) that I knew he was interested in a serious commitment.

If you learn nothing else at all from this relationship, appreciate that the fact he declared a great deal of excitement in the early stages does not AT ALL indicate that he is interested in a serious commitment. No matter what he says. This also applies to guys who want to get married/start living together within a couple of weeks of meeting someone.

 

You just haven't had time to know whether you want a serious commitment. You don't know each other yet. Something serious could develop at some point in the future, but you don't have any way of knowing that yet.

 

Guys who are trying to get women to bed with them - with no intention of taking a relationship any further - can promise undying love. Some of them may even mean it at the time, but when the fantasy fades away they won't be hanging around either.

 

Guys who turn out to be emotionally or physically abusive typically get attached and committed really quickly, too. So in this kind of scenario, if you find yourself overwhelmed with romantic feelings - get a grip.

 

If you like your guy as a person and this is mutual, I hope things work out well for you - it's just that if they do, it probably won't be in the way you thought they would when you first met!

[HouseKitten]

I think what he said to me, however, was kind of inconsiderate. I don't talk about other people I've slept with. Quite purposefully. I don't try to make him feel insecure at all. Honestly, I'm just honest and straightforward, without any intention to manipulate.

 

Perhaps he's the sort of guy who doesn't think there's anything wrong with discussing sexual history with a partner. Some couples are more open with each other than others - maybe his last girlfriend had no problem comparing notes on experiences and so he didn't realise you'd be offended. There's no one size fits all regarding the level of disclosure in relationships.

 

I also think that my stripping down to my underwear does not mean that I am consenting to sex. What my thought was that if we agreed to wait a certain amount of time that we made that decision together.

 

Unless you want to start suggesting he raped you, you obviously did consent to sex at some point. There were two of you there and it was your decision to go ahead with it so don't put it all on him - you could have either continued stopping him before it went too far, or you could have said 'since this is such a temptation, I think we should tone down the sexual activity for a while'.

 

Additionally, you did not make this decision together. You put a random number of months in front of him and said 'this is how long before we can have sex'. If you'd actually made the decision together, maybe you would have come to a more realistic time frame, and he might not have pushed it so much if he felt he'd had a say in the decision.

 

Anyway, it's done now. I would cut him slack and start over. If yours bothered by talk of previous partners, make that clear to him before he accidentally drops himself in it again. He can't know what you dislike unless you communicate with him.

[Batya33]

You had the choice to tell him "I know you're interested in what women talk about but I'd prefer not to share my personal conversation with my friend on this topic" - being honest is not the same as oversharing and I think your choice gave him the impression that you were trying to send a certain message to him but were unwilling to tell him directly so you shared it as "I told my friend ___" - it's just not the best way to communicate about something as important as your values.

 

I agree with you that it was tacky of him to share about his previous sexual experiences. I also think he is confused about how insistent you were about waiting a speciifc amount of time and then changing your mind so dramatically.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Anyway, it's done now. I would cut him slack and start over. If yours bothered by talk of previous partners, make that clear to him before he accidentally drops himself in it again. He can't know what you dislike unless you communicate with him.

 

I think it's common sense. You don't start talking about previous sexual partners until you know for sure that your partner doesn't mind, not the other way around.

 

Personally, I find guys insisting and trying to take things further very annoying. Women don't want to have to constantly say "no", this is why sometimes we give up. It doesn't necessarily mean we are loving or enjoying the moment, but that we feel awkward saying "no" for the 8789379879th time. If I start seeing someone and I like him sexually and want things to move forwards, I do something myself...instead of rejecting his advances or waiting for him to make a move. I wish some men could understand that, but they always think pushing and pushing is the way to go. Very annoying and a big turn off for me.

[HouseKitten]

I think it's common sense. You don't start talking about previous sexual partners until you know for sure that your partner doesn't mind, not the other way around.

 

Really? With all the boyfriends I've had, we've been relatively open about exes and what sort of experience we had. So like I said, every couple is different - perhaps he's used to being more open with his girlfriends about this sort of thing, whereas the OP obviously isn't. Neither of them is wrong, they just need to communicate better about what the other finds acceptable.

 

Personally, I find guys insisting and trying to take things further very annoying. Women don't want to have to constantly say "no", this is why sometimes we give up. It doesn't necessarily mean we are loving or enjoying the moment, but that we feel awkward saying "no" for the 8789379879th time.

 

This is just my opinion since I'm sure some people will disagree and others won't, but I think if the OP didn't want to keep saying 'no' to this guy, it would have been better to avoid getting to the point where she's down to her underwear and they're both all worked up. That's a mixed signal right there. Perhaps he wasn't a gentleman to keep pushing the issue but it sounds like she was telling him 'no' with her words and 'maybe' with her actions.

 

If you don't want to be in a position where you have to refuse someone, don't strip off, play around for a bit and then back off at the last minute. If the three month wait was about getting to know the guy first without sexual contact, there are better ways to do it than that.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Really? With all the boyfriends I've had, we've been relatively open about exes and what sort of experience we had. So like I said, every couple is different - perhaps he's used to being more open with his girlfriends about this sort of thing, whereas the OP obviously isn't. Neither of them is wrong, they just need to communicate better about what the other finds acceptable.

 

Did you just start talking about sex with your exes without knowing what their reaction might be? He may have used to being in an open relationship, does it mean he should just go on and have sex with other women assuming her new gf would be ok? It never hurts if we think a little before we say or do something.

[HouseKitten]

Did you just start talking about sex with your exes without knowing what their reaction might be?

 

Well, yes. If they had a problem with it, all they have to say is 'I'd rather not hear the details' and that's it.

 

He may have used to being in an open relationship, does it mean he should just go on and have sex with other women assuming her new gf would be ok? It never hurts if we think a little before we say or do something.

 

You can't seriously put mentioning a previous sexual experience in the same ball park as sex with another woman. That's just over the top.

 

If someone would rather not share details about sex they've had prior to their partner, all they have to do is say exactly that when the subject comes up. It is not such a huge deal that it needs to compared to being unfaithful.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Well, yes. If they had a problem with it, all they have to say is 'I'd rather not hear the details' and that's it.

 

 

 

You can't seriously put mentioning a previous sexual experience in the same ball park as sex with another woman. That's just over the top.

 

If someone would rather not share details about sex they've had prior to their partner, all they have to do is say exactly that when the subject comes up. It is not such a huge deal that it needs to compared to being unfaithful.

 

I think what you did was insensitive and I would NOT want to hear those things without me asking for them.

 

It was just an example, yes maybe an extreme one, to show that what you are used to should not be assumed in future relationships. To you it's not a big deal, but apparently it bothered the op enough to make a thread about it.

[Batya33]

If a woman tells a man that she is williung to fool around totally naked but not have intercourse, and she does that, that is not a "mixed signal" - that's not even a signal - her boundaries are as clear as can be. The man of course can decide that he can't handle being totally naked and not having intercourse, so they can decide to stay dressed or partially dressed, but a man who claims that that is a "mixed signal" is just looking for an excuse to pressure the woman to have sex.

[volpe]

well, I guess it is all subtle. I used to be more open about disclosure on sex with previous partners, but then I noticed the guys would get uncomfortable about it, bring things up later, etc. so I realized that talking about such things usually is not helpful. There really is no point to doing it, that I can think of. We've talked about some things, like oral sex and how I had an ex that refused to go down on me. But no longer will I speak much about sex. Like once this guy I'm dating said to me that he used to make his ex get covered in sweat and he'd do the same thing to me, and I told him I really didn't want to imagine him doing that to his ex. At first he didn't understand and so I asked him, if I said that about a guy, how would he feel. He paused, thought about it, and said, yeah you are right.

So, while this guy does say some things that are tacky sometimes, he is being honest, and does accept feedback. Once he said to me how much more well rounded I am than any other girl he's dated. I told him that I appreciate the compliment, but that I don't like to be compared to other women. He said, o.k. that is good to know that about you. I won't do that anymore. So, he is very receptive, and I am appreciative of that. For this reason (@nutbrownhare), I highly, highly, highly doubt this guy will become abusive. I've been in abusive relationships, and not one red flag has gone off. Also (@nutbrownhare) I do agree that going fast is not a good thing, but we have talked about this, slowing it down. I do, however, believe he really is genuine about his feelings. Anyways, I'm starting to like him more and more. Been a little over a month now. It feels stable.