Is this a reasonable expectation?

[Lady Rashomon]

Long story short: my husband and I have been going through an incredibly difficult period in our marriage. I made a terrible mistake and had a brief fling several months ago after at least a couple years of feeling very uncomfortable with my decision to marry. I ended the fling, told my husband about it, and we attempted to suss out what was real and what wasn't. We've been through a lot of ups and downs, obviously, and I still haven't been 100% certain that marriage is something that I want. In many ways, I wonder whether we've been kidding ourselves about our compatibility. Also, I am more than willing to own up to my mistakes and I've been tearing myself apart with guilt these past several months. In the meantime, he refuses to do couples counseling with me (we went twice and he didn't see it as being a meaningful pursuit), and the entire onus is on me to change, even though we have some fairly serious issues that are pretty independent of my "grave sin."

 

A couple nights ago, he gave me an ultimatum. Because I was the person who cheated on him and robbed him of his self-esteem, he feels that I should change my last name to his (I didn't when we married)--this is something I have felt very staunchly against since we first got married. In his eyes, because I took something important away from him, my giving him this gesture would be symbolic of my commitment to the relationship. I feel awful for everything I've put him through, but the truth is that I'm still deeply ambivalent about our marriage and really would prefer to get counseling and work through things over a period of time. I think that my changing my name would be a very surface-level change that would only serve to make me resentful--plus, if I were to do this, I wouldn't want to act from a place of fear, but one of love and certainty.

 

I am sitting here, racking my brain and trying to determine whether his request is reasonable or beside the point. If I don't do it, he's out the door; but if I do, I don't want to be resentful or put a band-aid over something that's a gaping wound.

[HouseKitten]

I think that my changing my name would be a very surface-level change that would only serve to make me resentful--plus, if I were to do this, I wouldn't want to act from a place of fear, but one of love and certainty.

 

Bingo.

 

Changing your name will do nothing for the stability of your marriage. It sounds like what he wants is more control, and you taking his name is a form of giving that. But you're completely right to be thinking that doing this wouldn't solve anything, might cause further problems down the line and is really just like putting a band-aid on a broken leg.

 

It's a shame he doesn't feel counseling won't work but it can take a couple of go's to find the right person to suit you, and if he really gives a damn about this marriage then you both need to work at it, not just you as the person who messed up. You said you've got other issues - it takes two to have issues in a relationship, nothing here is going to be all your problem and yours alone.

 

How much are you prepared to put into this before calling it a day? What if he still refuses to get help with you?

[DN]

Going to counseling is pointless if one partner has to be dragged there.

 

As for the name change. I take your point but if you think of the sacrifice to his pride that he made in taking you back, perhaps a sacrifice of yours may be something to think about.

 

I am also concerned about your ambivalence toward the marriage and perhaps that helps fuel your reluctance.

 

It is possible to 'self-counsel' through marriage difficulties - have you thought of that option?

[Crazyaboutdogs]

This is what you wrote in a previous thread. Despite your reservations about him you still embarked on the marriage. I suspect he always knew that he was more into the relationship than you are. I don't think his request for you to change the name is done in the spirit of control...I think he has a misguided notion that by changing your last name you will be more committed to the relationship. I can see why he doesn't want to go to counselling...because the issue has been your ambivalence towards him for 8 years. He loves you but it sounds like he recognizes that the problem is within you. I think you need solo counselling to get at the root of why you stayed with a man you were ambivalent about and then married him, and then cheated on him. No, I don't think you should be changing your name because the real issue is how you feel about your husband. Your husband is being unreasonable about the name change because he is desperate to hang on to you. If you have been feeling ambivalent for 8 years I don't see this changing and I think it is time to end this relationship so both of you can find someone more compatible.

[shes2smart]

What I wonder is this: If you are ambivilent about being married, are you really going to put a big enough effort into staying staying married?

 

I think you'd be well-served to figure out if you even want to be married at all first, and if you do, if you want to be married to him. These are two separate issues, and I would think it would be better to sort out those basics in individual counseling. Because if you don't want to be married at all, it's a waste of your time and his to try to "fix" anything, same goes if you don't want to be married to him. Frankly, until you get that sorted out in your own head, I think any effort you make to repair the relationship will be half-assed at best...because, on some level, part of you will think it's not worth the effort.

 

While there are many couples who can get beyond infidelity, the fact of the matter is that it is a complete deal-breaker for some people. Has he figured out where he stands in regard to that? I don't think that's something people can truly know about themselves until they've been cheated on. We may think we can forgive or not forgive, but until we're confronted with the situation, we really don't know what we will do.

 

Changing your name is a cosmetic fix....it doesn't do anything to address the real problem.

[misssmithviii]

IMO, no amount of counseling will do any good if one isn't willing, as DN stated.

 

In fact, I agree with much of what DN said and frankly, the sacrifice of his pride and esteem to remain with you after you had been unfaithful is something that cannot be equaled. He probably is wondering why you will not change your last name instead of demanding it. Many of the problems that I feel people may find controlling or demanding are simply because the other partner is more wondering "why not" instead of "you must". However, that's where a compatibility in values/beliefs comes in... and you are right to predict resentment if you do something you believe in your heart you cannot do with grace and certainty; and unfortunately he will probably always wonder why (whether he discloses that or not).

 

There is an underlying problem here, and CAD pointed out that the REAL ISSUE is how you feel about your husband - and she is on point IMO.

[Lady Rashomon]

I understand that he's hurting, so I have been trying to be the person to make the effort towards resolving things. I really do want to make him happy. I've been going to individual counseling and I've actually been trying to prompt him to do the same, because I know he's holding a lot in.

 

I guess that my reluctance to call it a day has been selfish; I've been really invested in being the "good guy" and coming to a resolution that both of us are happy with, but we're pretty much at a stalemate.

[Lady Rashomon]

Going to counseling is pointless if one partner has to be dragged there.

 

As for the name change. I take your point but if you think of the sacrifice to his pride that he made in taking you back, perhaps a sacrifice of yours may be something to think about.

 

I am also concerned about your ambivalence toward the marriage and perhaps that helps fuel your reluctance.

 

It is possible to 'self-counsel' through marriage difficulties - have you thought of that option?

 

I'm not altogether familiar with the term "self-counsel." I've been going to individual therapy for the last eight months or so, and been religiously reading books like "Passionate Marriage," but every time I talk to him about any of this, he gets pretty livid and it comes down to "if you hadn't done what you did, we wouldn't have to be thinking about this bull * * * * in the first place."

[misssmithviii]

He's holding some strong resentment towards you due to your infidelity.

 

This is all starting to sound like it's become a stalemate because neither one of you is going through the necessary steps together as a couple to either let go of the past entirely (which must be done unfortunately if you want to continue the relationship) or to move on with separation.

[DN]

Self counseling is simply going through the steps that you would in normal counseling without the counselor being there. It takes a lot more commitment and level-headedness but it can be done.

[Lady Rashomon]

I can't disagree with anything you've written here. I got solo counseling immediately after the entire issue erupted. I was sure that getting help and cutting off the affair would give me the certainty and clarity I needed, that I would realize I'd made a huge mistake and it would be one that would solidify my marriage. Well, while I realized that I made a huge mistake, it didn't work to somehow dispel the nagging belief that I didn't know whether I wanted to be married.

 

I know he's desperate to hang on to me, and that's why I've stayed for this long, in the hopes that I will eventually come around and wise up. In the beginning of our relationship, I was actually the person who put more effort in, and we were dealing with a whole host of problems too extensive to get into. He did turn his life around before we got married, but a lot of the damage was still left behind--we'd just both very efficiently pushed it beneath the rug without talking about it. Whenever I bring that part of our lives up, however, he gets absolutely livid and says, "This isn't about what happened years ago. I'm a different person--this is about what you did to this relationship." I know that deflecting blame isn't something I want to do, but I also know that there's a larger context for our marital problems that goes back at least a few years.

 

Counseling is certainly helping me identify my issues but it isn't leading to too much clarity just yet...

[Lady Rashomon]

He's holding some strong resentment towards you due to your infidelity.

 

This is all starting to sound like it's become a stalemate because neither one of you is going through the necessary steps together as a couple to either let go of the past entirely (which must be done unfortunately if you want to continue the relationship) or to move on with separation.

 

And I COMPLETELY understand his resentment, but that's kind of the problem with the ultimatum. I don't want to respond to threats that are made out of anger, nor do I want to kowtow to his demands. If I changed my name, I'd want it to be because I was certain that this will work. The wounds are just too fresh now. He's asking me for 100% all at once right now, which I think I'd only be able to give him over time.

 

Or maybe I'm intellectualizing this way too much. Perhaps it has to be a matter of compromise/total commitment or just throwing in the towel altogether.

[DN]

And I COMPLETELY understand his resentment, but that's kind of the problem with the ultimatum. I don't want to respond to threats that are made out of anger, nor do I want to kowtow to his demands. If I changed my name, I'd want it to be because I was certain that this will work. The wounds are just too fresh now. He's asking me for 100% all at once right now, which I think I'd only be able to give him over time.

 

Or maybe I'm intellectualizing this way too much. Perhaps it has to be a matter of compromise/total commitment or just throwing in the towel altogether.

One of the requirements of putting a relationship back together on the part of someone who cheated is to recognise that their spouse does have a right to be angry and that some demands, even if they appear to be unreasonable, are made not so much out of revenge but as a sign that the cheater is serious about fixing things. Cheating is a repudiation of a partner and the vows that were made - conceding something like this might be a way of renewing them.

[misssmithviii]

IMO, he experienced the tip of the blade here, and the guilt you are ridden with is stabbing you too.

 

Going into marriage uncertain if it's what you really want is playing a big part in his resentment and your inability to change your name (which IMO is nothing compared to the sacrifice he made to stick it out with you). However, I do generally see those who stick it out with some who has cheated on them (and in this case, been hesitant to marry in the first place) probably has some underlying co-dependency issues.

That being said, it seems like you've subconsciously learned that he will put up with a certain degree of things and since changing your name isn't nearly close to as dramatic as forgiving you for cheating was, you're taking advantage of the situation and holding onto something that could very well prove your devotion to the healing process.

[pumpkinmoon]

Well I can see that your biggest mistake was getting married in the first place if you weren't sure that's what you wanted. It seems to me that he is still having a very hard time dealing with the fact that you cheated and to him, in his mind, this demand or request or whatever you want to call it will help him to get over the cheating and move forward, but it won't. His thoughts and feelings about it will still be there.

 

The bit that stuck out for me was when you said that you know he is desperate to hang onto you, and that's why you have stayed so long.

 

I commend you for trying so hard with this but I don't think your heart is in it. It will never work if it isn't what you really want.

[catfeeder]

He's throwing out a test he knows you won't pass, which is, "What would you NOT do to save this marriage?"

 

You get to say the same thing about the counseling.

 

Who knows? Maybe you're both sparing yourselves expense and hoop jumps.

 

No matter how many legitimate things for which you can find blame in the other, the end results are the same--neither of you will ever 'win' any wasted time back to live over again.

 

The question becomes, how do you want to live out your future?

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I have seen many posts on this forum from people who were ambivalent about their partner even before getting married and thought things would improve on marriage. They come on to ENA to talk about how 3 years later, 5 years later whatever, they are still ambivalent about their partner and feel like they are wasting their life in an empty relationship. You can't recapture a love and connection that never was there to begin with. Right now you are trying to force yourself to have a true connection with your husband and yet you never really had that true connection from the get-go. When there was once real love and connection to a partner some hard work can rebuild that love and connection...but if there was never that kind of deep love and connection to begin with there is no background history to replicate. People rebuilding a relationship say "I want to feel for him/her what we felt for each other at the beginning" so they strive for that feeling of connection that they once had. You never had it with him...all you had was years of trying to force yourself to connect with him and that forcing against your true feelings ended up leading you down the path of cheating. The only thing that is different now is that you carry the guilt of cheating..but your ambivalent feelings for your husband are still the same. That is why I say that I think you have to know when you are fighting a lost cause and it is time to leave before you waste more years of your life and his.

[Lady Rashomon]

I agree with this. But I would say that there was a great deal of love between us from the beginning. I haven't had many relationships so there isn't much to compare any of this to. But it was the kind of love that developed into a very strong friendship, shared goals, common interests, etc. Because I find it so hard to just TRUST myself, I worry that I am simply rewriting the story to paint a more flattering picture of myself (i.e., if there was a deep love, I wouldn't have done what I did...but is that really true?).

 

I'm deeply confused. The confusion stems from not knowing whether the ambivalence is all about me, or if it has something to do with the fact that the deep love required to sustain a meaningful relationship was not there to begin with.