Beyond frustrated...

[Gilroy]

Ammy, please don't get hurt and frustrated. I hope that my post did not offend you.

 

When you post in an online forum you will get many different responses and some of them may not be what you want to hear. But that does not mean that you need to stop posting. You have every right to continue to seek advice about your Dating situations and also some times to just vent.

 

You are a very beautiful person and I am sure you will get a great guy. It is just a question of when, ok? So cheer up and hope to see you soon here

[Batya33]

Hi Batya,

 

Some more information - I did find "her" very attractive not just because of "her" photos alone but also due to some other reasons as well. And we both had exactly 3 to 4 email exchanges between us. My emails to her were normal but her messages were very clingy and forthcoming. I was already suspicious and this made me even more alarmed. Then I figured out that it was one of the Nigerian scams and was thankful that I did not fall for it. Apparently lot of people fall for such online dating scams. Here is a link:

 

link removed

 

We all need to be careful when it comes to online dating.

 

Yes, we just approached it differently - to me, the contact on line was for the purpose of getting a phone number ASAP (after one-two emails, not four), speaking by phone ASAP for about a half hour or less and then deciding whether to meet. I looked at the photo and the profile just to screen out people I found repulsive looking or offensive in some way, or other dealbreakers that showed we were not a good match despite him apparently being a nice person. I did not decide ever that I was "attracted" to someone I'd never met in person - I left that decision for the in-person meeting and I avoided developing those kinds of feelings prior to meeting by limiting the amount of contact before meeting. I had no interest in developing any relationship or attraction prior to meeting because in my experience that created unrealistic expectations and could backfire if the first meet felt more like a real date or something other than a first meet for coffee with a near-stranger.

 

Worked for me and practically insured that I wouldn't be scammed. Despite my careful screening I met one pathological liar for lunch (compared notes with others who had met him, but afterwards) - but I met over 100 men in person and he was the only one I knew of who had lied in any significant way or who was a con artist.

[cranberrymuffin]

I would call it enablement.

 

Sorry, that is really harsh. But I don't know..... just reading the numerous threads that you start, I feel like you are your own worst enemy on this stuff. You over-analyze and get too emotionally involved at way too early of a stage in the relationship. One time you are mentioned that you are "too nice" because you are afraid that if you aren't, the guys will leave you. Its not a matter of waiting until some great guy comes along and sees that deep down you are a wonderful person - it's a matter of you sabotaging what chance you have at a great guy because you are doing things that cause them to back away before they get a chance to know you.

 

I have to agree with that, Ammy. It's not to be harsh but you, yourself keep saying it happens to you always, and to nobody else you know. You say you are baffled by it. All I can think of is that the only common denominator is you.

 

That isn't to say anything is wrong with you of course, but we all have things we need to look within for and heal. I have noticed that you post several of the same kinds of threads and then get coddled on here each time. I'm not judging it . Don't get me wrong. Just looking at it.

 

Anyway I won't post on here again.

 

This is typical manipulation too, and I'm sorry if it sounds harsh also. It's really not meant to be. In fact, I think we all do emotional "manipulations" when we feel hurt. Nobody said not to post anymore, and of course you are going to get messages against anyone who is really calling you on it because you have expressed that you are hurt about the ones that are more honest.

 

Ammy, I think the best thing anyone could do is to be honest with you. My very best friend and I are brutally honest with one another because we love each other. That is how we grow as humans. Acknowledgment.

 

It can't be the guys all the time.

 

Anyway, this message was not sent with any bad intent, and it's really up to you whether you would like to look within a little (you are a therapist you mention, so might have some expertise here) or continue to be external by feeling baffled by other/men's behaviors.

 

I do with you well and luck.

[BriarRose]

This is not her fault. She is a kind, bright, beautiful woman. It's not her fault that many men don't appreciate that and instead choose to pine for women who treat them like crap.

[cranberrymuffin]

Who said, or even implied it was her fault? My message was relaying other things entirely.

 

Anyway - just fyi in case of further responses that may be sent my way: I've said what I wanted to say and don't really want to engage anymore in this thread (so won't be tuning in to it). Not in a negative way at all but in an "I've said all I want to share" kind of way. And with positive feeling. I only do not want to be repetitive or try to fit a square peg in a round hole kind of thing.

 

So again, good luck Ammy.

[Gabo]

Ditto.

 

Look, the bad news is I really think it is you that is scaring off these guys. The good news is, I think it is very correctable. You are attractive; you are interesting. You just go about the process all wrong.

 

Stop being so generous with people to begin with and think of yourself as the prize. Guys have to win YOU over before you treat them well. This doesn't mean you have to be a *itch, it just means * * * -for-tat, open up and give more as you go, and as they give more to you. And don't get too emotionally invested right away. Remind yourself that when you begin to talk to someone, you don't really have any idea about that person at all. Any particular guy you meet online could be married, a con, a total loser, impotent, etc. and just feeding you a line. Learn to develop feelings gradually, instead of projecting your ideals.

 

Here is a direct from your response to me: "I try online dating hoping that I meet the 1 in a million guys who are actually normal." That is just an absolutely ridiculous statement. Meeting good people is harder then it should be, but they are out there.

[galaxy71]

I would call it enablement.

 

Sorry, that is really harsh. But I don't know..... just reading the numerous threads that you start, I feel like you are your own worst enemy on this stuff. You overanalyze and get too emotionally involved at way too early of a stage in the relationship. One time you are mentioned that you are "too nice" because you are afraid that if you aren't, the guys will leave you. Its not a matter of waiting until some great guy comes along and sees that deep down you are a wonderful person - its a matter of you sabotaging what chance you have at a great guy because you are doing things that cause them to back away before they get a chance to know you.

 

That was harsh. You are entitled to your opinion, but still. I get the sense that online dating is full of introverted, quiet guys who are not ready to settle down and be in a relationship. A lot of these guys didn't date much in high school. Now that they are in their twenties and meeting women through online dating websites, they want to experiment in dating through trial and error. More outgoing, social guys get experience in dating in high school and college. More introverted, quiet guys go through their experimentation phase later in life. I don't think that these guys are scum or losers for rejecting Ammy. Instead, I think that they are imperfect guys who are not ready to settle down in a relationship as they are trying to find themselves.

 

As someone said in another, unrelated thread, you might have to find the right dating style for you through trial and error. It might take some guys a handful or several dozens of dates, before they find what they want in dating(relationships, one-night stands, casual dating), and who they want to date(quiet women, social queens, club girls, religious girls). While some women are ready to settle down, you have a lot of older guys who act like they are still in high school as they are still trying to find out what they want in life. Some people go into online dating looking for a potential boyfriend/girlfriend. Other people go into online dating looking for any sort of experience in dating.

 

These guys that Amy mentions sound like nice, but insecure men. These guys have no identity. Do I want to be a boyfriend? Do I want to be a player? Do I just want to play the field and gain some experience in dating. As introverts, a lot of them are going to have an avoidant attachment style. They prefer to keep their distance, even around people that they are attracted to. This guy I knew drove this women crazy because he was so aloof and secretive. She wanted to date a guy who could be boyfriend material. The guy wanted to date a woman that would respect his need for privacy and independence. Things ended badly between the two.

 

I wonder where Amy's friends are in this. I don't expect her friends have an obligation to set up her up with guys. But I do expect her friends to refer her to different organizations and social events that are full of single, mature guys who are ready to settle down and be in a relationship.

[sweetdslollipop]

Does it matter if the guy or girl asks for the number first? (Like if the guy doesn't ask for your number within the first or second message, does that mean he's not really into you? Or do these rules not apply for online dating?)

[bulletproof]

I agree with those who advise you to look within. When we are not getting the life we want, the only variable we can change is ourselves. That can mean many different things. For instance, you've been advised many times to forget the internet dating route. Perhaps that's just not the way for you.

 

Either way, we can say it's everyone else, and the whole rest of the world has to change, or we can change ourselves. It's really that simple. Judging from your reaction here, I'd say you should avoid internet interaction altogether.

 

I honestly think you need to focus your attention elsewhere and try lots of new things that really make you happy.

[Smile1607308089]

Aww Ammy, Ammy..

You kinda remind me of one of my best friends..although she doesn't even try to date lol

 

I don't know if you get this but I've had it a couple of times. I'm quite expressive and genuine in my approach and I think a lot of guys forget that I also need to be pursued. I think they relax too much because I have no "attitute". I haven't tried online dating but I'm pretty sure I'd suck at it. Why don't you try as an experiment to not be very "excitable" when you reply? Not many exclamation marks, or smileys, or too many questions..to see the response you get.

 

This is the best advice I've heard yet. I have done the online thing and consider myself to be an attractive woman. The guys seem very responsive at first, excited to exchange emails...and after 3 or 4...POOF...they're gone! I think they must think "well, she's pretty and seems too nice, there must be something wrong or desperate with her".

I am going to retire the smiley faces, exclamation marks, and extensive details. Less seems to be much much more.

[Batya33]

I think it's a mistake to rely on typing to a stranger to convey an attitude - words on a page from a stranger are very often misinterpreted. No need to be overeager - simply make sure that you convey the direct, simple message that you'd rather talk than type ASAP to see if it makes sense to meet in person.

[dr_styles]

I'm all for going for an inperson meet up (good ol' coffee) really quickly as well but how many girls won't take that as a big red stalker or clingy flag? Probably similar for both guys and girls for OLD and will think the other's just after a hook up (or very desperate).

[Batya33]

I'm all for going for an inperson meet up (good ol' coffee) really quickly as well but how many girls won't take that as a big red stalker or clingy flag? Probably similar for both guys and girls for OLD and will think the other's just after a hook up (or very desperate).

 

Well, no because we met in a public place for about an hour -- I did get suspicious of someone who wanted to chat on email or phone that he was married or just wanted a chat buddy. I screened out the men who wanted a sexual fling successfully by reading the profile, the e-mail and by listening carefully to what he said on the phone, his tone of voice, what he asked me and if he was happy to meet in a public place for coffee or a drink (half a glass of wine was my limit and I usually didn't order alcohol) or for lunch that was a good sign that he wasn't after sex.

 

As far as "desperate" - to me the only point of dating sites was to facilitate the way you first got in touch - if you didn't meet ASAP in person how were you to know if there was any chemistry, any potential for a real date? Desperate was if, after we met the first time, he acted clingy, wanted to see me every day, etc.

[LAYAAN]

Online dating is a fickle thing.

Men, in particular, have trouble paying attention. They may go 'ooooh pretty thing' and email you once or twice, and then their attention shifts no matter how beautiful, engaging or promising you are.

Then there are the extreme, overly-eager and attentive ones who come accross too needy and embarrassingly forward and desperate.

It's hard to find the rare ones who can pay attention, show their personality, be patient and put their best foot forward online. It's near impossible. NEAR impossible.

Right on sista! right on! I was on EH for I guess almost 2 years. Its useless. I'm not saying this because I didn't get married. I'm saying this because I experienced exactly what you said. Both men and women act like kids left loose in candy store.

[LAYAAN]

Hi Ammy, I have some suggestion see if you find this useful -

 

1) How about you try to attend some local events that interest you e.g. local runs, local gardens, hiking, dancing something in nearby areas. I've joined a lot of meetup groups and one thing I noticed is that those who join a meetup group and actually show up for the events live within a driving distance (max 10 mile) of the regular meeting place of that group. So, you can meet singles that you will be able to date in real life. Well, I haven't been able to meet singles yet. I joined a walking group to get to know the area and most of them are in their 40s or 50s.

2) Also, one more suggestion - look cute when you go to do mundane things, running errands, grocery shopping, walking your dog, going to bank, etc. etc. Men are always looking. You never know someone might just ask you out.

3) Also, spread a word among your non-single, non-competitive/jealous, female friends that you are looking and will be open to be introduced to other men. I was directly asked by 3 of my friends who are married women themselves to come hang out with their husband's buddies as a group because their husbands play sports and this and that and knew a lot of single men.

 

Hang in there girl! I don't know why such a mundane thing is so hard these days. I can understand your frustration. I'm myself frustrated with the whole dating and arranged marriage nonsense.