how can people tip $5 on a $95 check and feel good about themselves?!

[wildchild1]

I didn't realize that either. Did someone say something of that sort?

Not directly, however when one side believes they are the only rational or realistic side, that automatically invalidates the other sides argument. So not directly, but indirectly.

[karvala]

im just saying you dont like to tip there is mcdonalds..or wendys...maybe bk..they have a dollar double cheeseburger..you can you al the unpaid tips you dont use and use it for the dollar menu

 

Could you explain the link between pointing out the inconsistency in current tipping practices and a propensity for eating in fast food joints off the dollar menu, because I for one don't understand it. Thanks.

[Doc Blaze]

How is this for you to decide? I eat wherever I feel like, whenever I feel like. And reading things like this from waiters only pushes me to convince other people to not tip also.

 

By the way if my students can't afford to tip me, they should go to community college or drop out. Not everyone needs a college education.

 

maybe your not doing a good enough job..you should just be happy they come to class

[Doc Blaze]

Could you explain the link between pointing out the inconsistency in current tipping practices and a propensity for eating in fast food joints off the dollar menu, because I for one don't understand it. Thanks.

 

they dont ask for tips..people like you they welcome...

[Seraphim]

[YZRiderF]

I dont see how their is much debate. I make 2.83 an hour plus tips. And Serving has flexible hours with my school schedule. On a good night I make amazing money on bad nights I dont make minimum wage.

As far as being paid little doing your graduate teaching I get paid nothing to work 4 days a week in a hospital putting in my clinical hours on top of that I travel to get there, pay tolls, and pay to park. So atleast you get paid. I enjoy leaving a nice tip when I go out. Its something no one will understand until they themselves spend a day as a server.

[karvala]

they dont ask for tips..people like you they welcome...

 

"People like me"? That wouldn't be a personal attack now, would it? I still don't understand the link, though, and nor do I understand how withdrawing my business from local restaurants is going to help the apparently impoverished servers that you so nobly donate your money to.

[Doc Blaze]

yeah people like you...you have a hard time leaving a good tip...right...your the one talking about how we have to tip right....then yes people like you...you would fall into that category

[karvala]

Nurses

link removed

 

Dentist

link removed

 

Garbage collectors

link removed

 

 

Okay, but the argument that my post was addressing was that tips are given for hard work, so I gave examples of other hard-working professions that aren't tipped. That has nothing to do with income.

 

If you now wish to acknowledge that the hard work argument is not valid, and instead change it to an argument that servers earn so little money from that they need high tips from all of their customers just to make a reasonable living (on a parity with similar professions), then you're free to do so, and we can have a good discussion about that, but that's a different argument to the one that I was addressing in my post.

[karvala]

yeah people like you...you have a hard time leaving a good tip...right...your the one talking about how we have to tip right....then yes people like you...you would fall into that category

 

What's with the constant aggression? Why are you taking this so personally? We're just trying to have a fun and intelligent discussion about an interesting issue here. There's really no need to personalise it in this way. Just chill a bit, join in the fun.

 

For the record, you may care to review my earlier posts in this thread which discussed my own personal tipping policy, which you might have missed based the inaccurate description of it given here.

[Elsewhere]

thank you to those who understand my frustration, I'm sure people like you are those who make my job bearable and sometimes even fun, thanx!

 

hike14 and karvala

I understand you have your careers of your choice, accept the pros and cons and are rather happy overall

me: I graduated and noone would hire me, I keep looking for a job in my field - in the meantime school loans need to get paid, so does rent and groceries, noone is supporting me - I need this waitressing job even though it stabs my ambition and years of hard work at school

[karvala]

I dont see how their is much debate. I make 2.83 an hour plus tips. And Serving has flexible hours with my school schedule. On a good night I make amazing money on bad nights I dont make minimum wage.

 

Okay, I'll play. Let's start with what constitutes a bad night. How long are you there, how many tables would you be dealing with in that time, and an estimate of how many orders taken and plates carried even if you can, and how much would you make in tips on that bad night? And finally, why, i.e. what has made it a bad night rather than a good one. Anything in particular, or just the luck of the draw? I'm curious.

 

 

As far as being paid little doing your graduate teaching I get paid nothing to work 4 days a week in a hospital putting in my clinical hours on top of that I travel to get there, pay tolls, and pay to park. So atleast you get paid. I enjoy leaving a nice tip when I go out. Its something no one will understand until they themselves spend a day as a server.

 

The difference being that your clinical hours are a part of your training and for your benefit. Graduate teaching is not part of a GTAs training and is for the benefit of the university and its students, i.e. it's a job, not a course.

[Applewhite]

thank you to those who understand my frustration, I'm sure people like you are those who make my job bearable and sometimes even fun, thanx!

 

hike14 and karvala

I understand you have your careers of your choice, accept the pros and cons and are rather happy overall

me: I graduated and noone would hire me, I keep looking for a job in my field - in the meantime school loans need to get paid, so does rent and groceries, noone is supporting me - I need this waitressing job even though it stabs my ambition and years of hard work at school

 

I am sorry. I am in a similar situation believe it or not. However I would never call someone that gave me $5 off of their own paycheck 'rude'.

[wildchild1]

Okay, but the argument that my post was addressing was that tips are given for hard work, so I gave examples of other hard-working professions that aren't tipped. That has nothing to do with income.

 

If you now wish to acknowledge that the hard work argument is not valid, and instead change it to an argument that servers earn so little money from that they need high tips from all of their customers just to make a reasonable living (on a parity with similar professions), then you're free to do so, and we can have a good discussion about that, but that's a different argument to the one that I was addressing in my post.

 

I have only debated the issue. Hard work is only part of the equation for tips, the other part of the equation is the lower the minimum wage salary. I agree that the aforementioned jobs don't need to be tipped, but only because they make a working wage. Serving is about the only industry where that doesn't apply. Imagine whatever it is that you do, Neuroscience if I recall, paid you a lower then minimum wage salary and you were working the job either out of convenience(in terms of flexibility) or necessity and you needed the money that it brought it. I think you would be better man then me if you could say would not be perturbed at peoples inability to tip reasonably.

 

For me that is the big factor, if you can afford a $100 steak, you should be able to afford the service that goes along with it and being catered to. If the food is bad or the service is sub par that is another issue. Congruency and reason-ability with checks in relation to tips are the biggest factors to me.

[karvala]

me: I graduated and noone would hire me, I keep looking for a job in my field - in the meantime school loans need to get paid, so does rent and groceries, noone is supporting me - I need this waitressing job even though it stabs my ambition and years of hard work at school

 

The girl who works on the checkout for minimum wage, where you buy your food, also has rent and bills to pay, and I daresay would have loved a chance to go to college at all. I hope you'll extend the same generosity to her that you're asking from your own customers next time you're there, and hand her 20% of whatever you've spent. Then I will be 100% behind you.

 

Meanwhile, I genuinely hope you get the job that you are ultimately looking for, and that you prosper.

[Applewhite]

Who are you to decide how generous people should be, where they should eat etc. based on what they can and what they can't afford?

 

This is just ridiculous! Now you are starting to claim that you should be tipped on not just your performance or how much you worked, but by how much the customer can afford!!! Are you socialist by any chance?

[Applewhite]

The girl who works on the checkout for minimum wage, where you buy your food, also has rent and bills to pay, and I daresay would have loved a chance to go to college at all. I hope you'll extend the same generosity to her that you're asking from your own customers next time you're there, and hand her 20% of whatever you've spent. Then I will be 100% behind you.

 

Meanwhile, I genuinely hope you get the job that you are ultimately looking for, and that you prosper.

 

I am also curious about what you think about this. Do you also extend the generosity you DEMAND like karvala suggests?

[karvala]

I have only debated the issue. Hard work is only part of the equation for tips, the other part of the equation is the lower the minimum wage salary. I agree that the aforementioned jobs don't need to be tipped, but only because they make a working wage. Serving is about the only industry where that doesn't apply. Imagine whatever it is that you do, Neuroscience if I recall, paid you a lower then minimum wage salary and you were working the job either out of convenience(in terms of flexibility) or necessity and you needed the money that it brought it. I think you would be better man then me if you could say would not be perturbed at peoples inability to tip reasonably.

 

Well believe or not, it does. If I calculate the total hours I work, and the money I make, it actually is below minimum wage. That's related to the particular type of job I have and the country I'm in, but nevertheless that's my situation. And yet I've never felt the need to demand tips from people I'm examining to help pay my rent or bills or student loans. I've simply worked harder, and if I have a problem with my pay, then I will either go and find another job that pays better, or try to persuade my current employer to pay me more. I'm certainly not about start shakedowns on innocent people who happen to come to me on a professional basis, regardless of my own apparent poverty, since my poverty is not their fault, and I don't have the attitude that if I'm poor, then anyone with any money who crosses my path somehow owes some to me.

 

For me that is the big factor, if you can afford a $100 steak, you should be able to afford the service that goes along with it and being catered to. If the food is bad or the service is sub par that is another issue. Congruency and reason-ability with checks in relation to tips are the biggest factors to me.

 

What has affordability got to do with it? If someone CAN pay a large tip, they SHOULD pay a large tip, regardless of who's receiving it or how much work it was to provide it? Really?

[Applewhite]

 

What has affordability got to do with it? If someone CAN pay a large tip, they SHOULD pay a large tip, regardless of whose receiving it or how much work it was to provide it? Really?

 

You said it much better than I could. I wish someone would answer this for us because I really want to understand that trail of thought. I think it is somehow linked with the 'if you can't afford to tip don't eat here' attitude . As if the waiter owns the restaurant and may just decide at whim who can and who can't eat there. It is silly.

[Elsewhere]

I am also curious about what you think about this. Do you also extend the generosity you DEMAND like karvala suggests?

 

It's not that I demand generosity. Just decent bahavior.

 

OK so I had bad luck with the $5 tip.

 

My colleague had a really unpleasant table of 16 people who gave him a lot of hard time and disrespect and then demanded that gratuity (that was automatically added for large groups) is taken off. The manager thought he gave bad service which was not the case. He was serving and took all the humiliation and did it all for free bc they didn't leave a dollar!

 

Girl at checkout does get her minimum wage no matter what. Whether she helps 10 people an hour or noone. And I think her job is easier.

I'm not saying her situation is better.

 

I'm just saying 5% tip is a slap in the face and can put a server in trouble at times.

 

If you don't have money or are cheap, it's ok but leave at least 10% and be an easy customer.

[wildchild1]

Yes, but you make more then minimum wage on whatever basis you make to start with I would imagine. Imagine a server makes less then minumum wage, then has to put into the other employees from their tips, and then they have taxes also.

 

Look, we don't have to like it, but this is the US. Gratuities are a part of dining culture. Whether you like it or dislike it, it is here to stay. You don't want to tip, I welcome you to it. However you forfeit your right to be surprised when others judge you on it. Karvala, I realize now we won't see eye to eye either, and that's fine.

[Elsewhere]

Yes, but you make more then minimum wage on whatever basis you make to start with I would imagine. Imagine a server makes less then minumum wage, then has to put into the other employees from their tips, and then they have taxes also.

 

Look, we don't have to like it, but this is the US. Gratuities are a part of dining culture.

 

Yes, I hear US is the only place where tipping system works so broadly and foreigners are just unfamiliar with the idea.

 

The idea is: if your tip was included in price, your server wouldn't give a damn bc he'd get it from his employer anyway.

But since it's up to you (you are given a choice: noone forces you by increasing a price on every single item ordered) - your server will do anything to make you as happy as possible.

[Puddincup]

15-20% is the norm. I don't get what everyone is having a problem with. I don't mind tipping. It is good to be generous if you can. If tips went away, restaurants would just charge more for the food. You would still pay.

[karvala]

Girl at checkout does get her minimum wage no matter what. Whether she helps 10 people an hour or noone. And I think her job is easier.

 

She also earns much less than you on average, has an incredibly boring and repetitive job that many people would say is even less pleasant than being a server, and scarcely gets so much as a thank-you. She has poverty, she works hard, she offers a service, and her clientele could certainly afford to offer her a percentage of the total amount they spend, some of which she could pass back to the shelf stackers for example; it's a completely parallel situation. And yet even you, while asking for the benefit for yourself, deny her right to it.

 

If you don't have money or are cheap, it's ok but leave at least 10% and be an easy customer.

 

And if you don't have the money or are, at least 10% for the supermarket checkout girl and be an easy customer for her too.

[Elsewhere]

karvala,

so in other words you're saying waiters should work for 3.50/h and be happy with it - is that your point?