Dehumanizatiton.

[waveseer]

Definition of dehumanization: To deprive of human qualities such as individuality, compassion, or civility.

 

How does dehumanization affect our relationships? I am no stranger to dehumanization in past relationships which has made me somewhat oversensitive to any and all forms of dehumanization especially in my intimate relationships.

 

For example: When my partner tells me not to cut my hair because he likes it better long I feel dehumanized, like he cares more about my hair than he does about my happiness.

 

Am I out of line or is this reaction overblown? I think I've lost perspective on this topic.

[dundermiflin]

I didn't realize you were seeing someone? I almost want to laugh though I don't want to make it sound like I'm making fun, but guys say that all the time! For some reason a lot of guys think long hair is sexy. They ALWAYS say, "oh please don't cut your hair!"

 

Is that the only thing or is there more that he's being controlling about? I'd say if that is it, and you want to cut your hair, then cut your hair.

[agent1607307371]

On one hand I do think it's an overreaction, but on the other hand I do know where you are coming from (I'm ginger so lots of people think they have a right to tell me how I have to have my hair).

 

If he really fights for it and belittles your own right to chose your hairstyle, then there's a problem. If he's just stating a preference, then it's just a preference. I know I've gone out with people and liked their look more a certain way. It's part of being a visual creature.

 

Wome are socialised that their hair is important though, so when other people try to change how you want to wear it, it can be more than a bit irritating - like they're trying to change you, rather just something about you.

[FathomFear]

There are elements to sexual attraction which aren't overly "humanizing", per se. For example, if you didn't have a vagina I suspect he would not be interested in you at all. Just as you wouldn't be interested in him if he he had a vagina. Body parts or lack thereof can trump the person quite quickly.

 

An extreme example I know, but hair colour or length is just another one of those things that he might prefer in one fashion or another. I don't think there's anything wrong with him expressing a preference as long as he doesn't make you feel overly guilty about whatever decision you make.

[waveseer]

I didn't realize you were seeing someone? I almost want to laugh though I don't want to make it sound like I'm making fun, but guys say that all the time! For some reason a lot of guys think long hair is sexy. They ALWAYS say, "oh please don't cut your hair!"

 

Is that the only thing or is there more that he's being controlling about? I'd say if that is it, and you want to cut your hair, then cut your hair.

 

I'm not seeing anyone, I was drawing on past experience. This was just one example, but the messages that bother me the most are usually related to appearance in some way.

 

On one hand I do think it's an overreaction, but on the other hand I do know where you are coming from (I'm ginger so lots of people think they have a right to tell me how I have to have my hair).

 

If he really fights for it and belittles your own right to chose your hairstyle, then there's a problem. If he's just stating a preference, then it's just a preference. I know I've gone out with people and liked their look more a certain way. It's part of being a visual creature.

 

I understand having a preference, but if I am involved with someone I would care a lot more about whether they were happy themselves than whether they were looking the way I might prefer.

[waveseer]

There are elements to sexual attraction which aren't overly "humanizing", per se. For example, if you didn't have a vagina I suspect he would not be interested in you at all. Just as you wouldn't be interested in him if he he had a vagina. Body parts or lack thereof can trump the person quite quickly.

 

An extreme example I know, but hair colour or length is just another one of those things that he might prefer in one fashion or another. I don't think there's anything wrong with him expressing a preference as long as he doesn't make you feel overly guilty about whatever decision you make.

 

So my oversensitivity has to do with his degree of insistence or reaction to me doing what I prefer rather than what he prefers?

[Lucius]

For example: When my partner tells me not to cut my hair because he likes it better long I feel dehumanized, like he cares more about my hair than he does about my happiness.

 

Am I out of line or is this reaction overblown? I think I've lost perspective on this topic.

 

I think yes, that is an over-reaction.

 

We ought to be able to express our preferences without having to add the caveat - "but of course it's your choice - after all, it's your happiness as an individual subjectivity that I cherish most of all."

 

I mean, unless he's being a demanding twit quite consistently, isn't that implicit? I think so. People communicate on various levels when they're in a relationship. On one level, it's all about that profound connection; where you're careful and passionate about showing how much you love and respect them. On another level, it's about a simple, more practical expression of preference. I mean, I would feel as though I were walking an emotional mine field if my partner took offense at such a remark; as though I had to walk on eggshells, and carefully spell out how my preferences were not intended as demands, and that ultimately her choices were her own, etc etc. Phew. For me that's obvious - it's implicit. It'd be exhausting to be unable to express things simply, for fear of "dehumanizing" your loved one (or for fear of leaving them feeling unhappy or disrespected merely because I forgot my big bag of caveats).

 

I guess the exception to this is if someone will not respect your ultimate decision. That's a different kettle of carp.

[hers]

I have this thing where I dehumanize men I'm in relationships with, like criticizing everything about them, to myself, liek they're not allowed to be human. For example, absolutely positively no putting socks on before pants b/c I think it's gross. It's ridiculous that I think this way and don't allow it to be done in my presence.

 

Why should it matter? It doesn't? It's just a way for me to remain controlling and "better than"

 

At the same time though, I see things in myself that could be annoying to others and I say "whatever, if they can't love me for who I am, they're not worth my time." That whole pot-kettle-black thing.

 

I understand fully what you mean and I'm guilty of doing it to others.

[Seraphim]

I do not think it is over reaction, no. I know exactly what you mean.

[Imprecision]

There's no context to your question.

 

I mean, is this something which has happened in the past, (and you did feel upset over it)? Or is this hypothetical, as in you are trying to imagine how you would feel if a boyfriend told you not to cut your hair?

 

If the question is hypothetical, I would suggest that, in context, you would not feel the same way. And if you were indeed upset, you would express your resentment in some form or another (quite possibly in a situation completely unrelated to the hair incident) - and the well-being of the relationship would depend far more on how your boyfriend handles your outburst than the minutiae of the hair incident.

 

If the question is real - as in it has happened exactly in this way in your past - then I would suggest that you were subconsciously trying to test him:

 

a. in terms of his ability to stick up for himself, or

b. in terms of whether he really cared about you.

[waveseer]

There is a difference between respecting my personal choice and using that choice to start noticing other women with the desired trait I no longer have.

[Seraphim]

It is not a test, it is expressing boundries.

[waveseer]

I have this thing where I dehumanize men I'm in relationships with, like criticizing everything about them, to myself, liek they're not allowed to be human. For example, absolutely positively no putting socks on before pants b/c I think it's gross. It's ridiculous that I think this way and don't allow it to be done in my presence.

 

Why should it matter? It doesn't? It's just a way for me to remain controlling and "better than"

 

At the same time though, I see things in myself that could be annoying to others and I say "whatever, if they can't love me for who I am, they're not worth my time." That whole pot-kettle-black thing.

 

I understand fully what you mean and I'm guilty of doing it to others.

 

Thank you for being honest. I am sure I am guilty of similar thoughts or comments in my past, but I hope I've become more sensitive since then. Awareness is a huge step in the right direction.

 

I do not think it is over reaction, no. I know exactly what you mean.

 

Thank you, do you think my reaction comes from previous mistreatment by someone controlling?

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I agree. A partner telling me how they prefer my hair is perfectly fine..it gives food for thought. So maybe I would cut my hair..and then maybe for a while I would leave it long to give him a thrill. I wouldn't feel dehumanized over something that minor. To me, dehumanizing someone is treating them as purely an ornament or a sex object. For me FWBs and FBs are dehumanizing someone because you are simply regarding the other person as a giant penis or vagina...they are no longer a person with feelings and interests and a life..it just comes down to "I am horny, come over so we can have sex".

[Lucius]

There is a difference between respecting my personal choice and using that choice to start noticing other women with the desired trait I no longer have.

 

I'm sure there is a difference between those things; but it's a hard distinction to make when you leave that information out of your opening post. I can only give a response to the situation you describe, not the context you do not.

[Seraphim]

Thank you for being honest. I am sure I am guilty of similar thoughts or comments in my past, but I hope I've become more sensitive since then. Awareness is a huge step in the right direction.

 

 

 

Thank you, do you think my reaction comes from previous mistreatment by someone controlling?

 

Yes, that is entirely possible. I know exactly what you mean. I have lived in a "controlled" environment my entire life. So, yes. I guess it is looking past a reaction and seeing maybe if it is infringement of boundries. I have a lot of trouble with letting people over step my boundries so I often feel "dehumanized". So I know what you are saying. When I do express my boundries people think I am loopy because I seldom express them. Maybe if we express our boundries solidly from the beginning they are better understood.

[waveseer]

It's a real experience, in fact, most women who've been in relationships can attest to one or many incidents of a similar type, it's very common.

 

My initial reaction and my response were very different. I tend to give my significant other every benefit of the doubt, so if it wasn't terribly important to me to have shorter hair I would have kept it long and if it was important to me I would have cut it anyway. Both actually happened at different times.

 

I'm not sure why you think it would cause an outburst...

 

I wouldn't make a hair salon appointment to test my so, that is very immature.

[waveseer]

I'm sure there is a difference between those things; but it's a hard distinction to make when you leave that information out of your opening post. I can only give a response to the situation you describe, not the context you do not.

 

I understand. If I had it all figured out before I posted there would be no need for this topic.

[Miss Firecracker]

My husband recently said he wants me to keep my hair cut short, as I have had it for over 5 years. I have, however, decided to let it grow back to the length I had it before and see what I can do with it. It really doesn't matter to me what he says, and it's my hair and I'll wear it anyway I please, and I'd shave it bald if I want to.

 

No one can dehumanize you without your permission. Just remember that.

[Imprecision]

It's a real experience, in fact, most women who've been in relationships can attest to one or many incidents of a similar type, it's very common.

 

My initial reaction and my response were very different. I tend to give my significant other every benefit of the doubt, so if it wasn't terribly important to me to have shorter hair I would have kept it long and if it was important to me I would have cut it anyway. Both actually happened at different times.

 

Well, either a woman has no resentment over this, or she does.

 

If she does resent her boyfriend for asking her not to cut her hair, then I would say she has some unresolved doubt about her boyfriend. This doubt is surfacing as resentment in this context.

 

The outcome depends on whether the boyfriend can resolve this doubt.

 

I'm not sure why you think it would cause an outburst...

 

This really relates to the underlying dynamic. If you resent your boyfriend, then even if you don't express it at first, it will come out in one form or another - perhaps over another equally-trivial argument.

 

When I said "test," I didn't mean it as a conscious decision to test your boyfriend. Generally, tests are subconscious. Conscious "tests" are relatively rare in relationships.

[Lucius]

I understand. If I had it all figured out before I posted there would be no need for this topic.

 

I want to add something. If your ex was "noticing" other women with this desired trait in a way that was antagonistic, insensitive, or intentioned (I believe you will know what I mean here), then he clearly was not respecting your decision in any meaningful way. Actions speak louder than words, and respect is something that must be put to work - to action - and not merely placed on a shelf. But, if he was simply noticing women (or traits in those women) which he found attractive, with none of the above motives or tonalities, then I confess to seeing no problem with his behaviour. We all notice what is beautiful to us - and to do so is not a diminishment of the other kinds of beauty around us (including our loved ones, with their many qualities).

[waveseer]

I want to add something. If your ex was "noticing" other women with this desired trait in a way that was antagonistic, insensitive, or intentioned (I believe you will know what I mean here), then he clearly was not respecting your decision in any meaningful way. Actions speak louder than words, and respect is something that must be put to work, not place on a shelf. But if he was simply noticing women he found attractive, with none of the above motives or tonalities, then I confess to seeing no problem. We all notice what is beautiful to us.

 

I think there is an underlying issue. I know all people aren't like me in the sense that they don't let their feelings for their so turn them into their ideal man or woman. I accept that. What I find difficult to accept is when someone who professes love can still cling to an ideal that doesn't leave their partner fair choices on how to look. I would always strive to please my partner, but at what cost? Am I supposed to become his ideal or is he supposed to adjust his ideal to fit however I look?

[WomanWriter]

I know what you mean, Waveseer. I see it as disrespecting another person's sense of Self. It feels like they are almost killing you by wanting to change things about you. If it's just a little preference, that's one thing...but when they start whining and sulking and avoiding you, that's when it gets controlling and dehumanizing.

 

For my ex, he liked long hair better when I had short hair and when I had long hair, he wanted me to cut it short (I just couldn't win). I told him it was disrespectful for him to keep pestering me and being cold to me when he didn't get his way and he said it was not because I was a reflection of who he was. If that is not dehumanizing, I don't know WHAT is. I told him later that I was glad we broke up (a lie) because he was disrespecful to me (the truth). He still didn't see it that way. He saw it as me being stubborn and not "hip" enough. I see him now as a sell-out.

 

Do you notice that we are most willing to change "for someone" when they accept us for who we are? But when someone keeps bugging you and putting you down, you feel extremely resistent? I think it's because we are trying to preserve our identity (ego) which gets threatened when someome disrespects us like that.

 

 

I'm not seeing anyone, I was drawing on past experience. This was just one example, but the messages that bother me the most are usually related to appearance in some way.

 

 

 

I understand having a preference, but if I am involved with someone I would care a lot more about whether they were happy themselves than whether they were looking the way I might prefer.

[Lucius]

I think there is an underlying issue. I know all people aren't like me in the sense that they don't let their feelings for their so turn them into their ideal man or woman. I accept that. What I find difficult to accept is when someone who professes love can still cling to an ideal that doesn't leave their partner fair choices on how to look. I would always strive to please my partner, but at what cost? Am I supposed to become his ideal or is he supposed to adjust his ideal to fit however I look?

 

If I were to paint a picture of my ideal woman, based solely on physical characteristics, the picture would look little like my fiancee. Why? Because those preferences predate my meeting her, and precede my own conscious mind - and the place where my love for her dwells. Maybe it's biological, maybe it's subconscious - either way, it's at a place beyond the reach of tinkering hands. I like what I like, regardless of who I'm with.

 

With that said, nobody is as beautiful to me as my fiancee. That may seem contradictory in light of what I just said, but hear me out. No-one's as beautiful to me as she is - not in the ways that count most. I might prefer a slightly taller woman, or a slighter thinner one, or a slighter darker shade of hair, etc etc, but if I met a woman with all of those traits, she would still pale in comparison to my partner. Sure, she would be technically beautiful - but my fiancee is profoundly so. Not because of her physical traits (or at least, not in the usual sense) - but because of how her mind, her body, and her soul are so clear to me. And because I have imbued her (in my own mind and my own heart) with my passion and love. That makes every inch of her physicality peerlessly beautiful to me. It takes her out of any competition, looks-wise. It's not that she has become my ideal woman - it's that she has transcended that rudimentary concept, by becoming one with my sense of love.

 

I'm finding this difficult to explain.

 

In answer to your question, no - he should not adjust his ideal to suit how you look. He should not because he cannot, and because it isn't necessary. Likewise, you shouldn't strive to look like his ideal - because you can't, and because it too is not necessary. Love did not change what I found beautiful in women - not physically. What it did do was show me how little those things mattered; and that there was perfection in imperfection. Beauty in the unexpected. And that a person is wonderful just as they are - and that such a wonder cannot be compared to another.

[Imprecision]

Aha, I just thought of clear proof and evidence for my point.

 

1. Consider this: Your hypothetical boyfriend probably makes innumerable requests on you throughout your relationship. Sometimes, you are offended. At other times, you are not. Why is this?

 

2. This clearly relates to the underlying dynamic, rather than a particular "hair incident." For instance, if he told you he wanted you to wear green more, perhaps you would not be nearly as offended - You might even be pleased that he paid attention to your appearance. On the other hand, perhaps you would be ten times more offended. Either way, the level of offense is not demonstrably related to the incident at hand.

 

3. But relating to the "hair incident," the elements are:

 

a. You feel he intruded upon your personal autonomy.

b. You feel he had no right to intrude upon your personal autonomy.

 

4. Now, why would you feel that he had no right to intrude upon your personal autonomy?

 

For instance, with my girlfriend, I told her, "I want you to watch Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. This way, we will have more to talk about."

 

Why does she not think I was intruding upon her personal autonomy? I make these requests on her all the time.

 

5. The fact is - If you're sufficiently in love with him, then it would not be an intrusion.

 

The basic problem is that you are not sufficiently in love with your hypothetical boyfriend. And the reason you are not sufficiently in love with him is because he has not resolved your doubts (either about whether he can stick up for himself, or about whether he cares for you).

 

Women dress to please their men all the time. I know a girl who got breast enlargement just to please her boyfriend. These things are trivial compared to other things women - who are in love - will do to please their men.

 

6. So basically, get a better man, who can make you fall in love with him, resolve all your doubts, etc. Then this "hair incident" would not be a problem.