The Waiting Game

[DaisyB]

Oh, no -- there are TWO of them out there!

 

Thanks for your post, Berty75 -- our stories do sound incredibly -- almost eerily -- similar. I'd be happy to get your opinion any time!

 

Tonight's IM conversation (I save them, too!) drove me nuts. We've been flirting a lot lately, and he's been contacting me more and more frequently, which you'd think would be a good sign.

 

But just when I'm starting to get my hopes up (and oh, I try not to), he says something like "being apart is best right now" or "we shouldn't get used to seeing each other too much." (Sometimes not outright -- sometimes he just hints at those things.)

 

It's so hard to know how to respond when he says something like that. I'm trying to play it cool and be patient, and not ask too many questions. I don't want to fall back into pressuring him again. I also don't want to suddenly become cold and shut him off. But man, it makes me angry sometimes. . . tonight it took all the control I had not to blow up at him. The fact that it was an IM conversation helped. (Not really sure what I would have said, but something along the lines of "Why can't you ever figure out what you want?") Of course I would have regretted it immediately.

 

He knows his commitment-phobia is a problem, and I know he's not doing it on purpose. He's been very honest with me in telling me that he needs space and time to figure things out. He's never asked me to wait for him, or not to date other people. But he still says that he misses me and loves me, and obviously, I miss and love him.

 

I wish I knew exactly what to do, Berty75. For my own sanity I've given him a secret deadline of a year from our break-up to decide where he wants to go from here. I'm trying to concentrate on other things in my life and remain open to the possibility of dating others. But other than that, I'm not sure.

 

Being patient is tough. . .

[Wild1B]

I feel as I am in the same boat with you. Great to see you are all holding on to the love you once had and trying to make it happen again. It gives me the strength I need to press on in my quest. But It sure is hard waiting somtimes I am so scared to take her calls for fear of making her madder at me.

[Berty75]

DaisyB- I sent a PM to you, let me know what you think.

 

WildB1 - Ah ha. I knew there were more of us out there I guess letting go and moving on isn't what works for everyone. What is your story??? Don't be afraid to take her calls. Just don't be as "available". Let het her leave you a message and then call her back in an hour. When you talk to her, be light and fun. Try your best not to bring up the relationship. I know it's tough, but it may help. Good luck

[DaisyB]

Just a little Saturday afternoon update. . .

 

Our contact seems to be increasing. . . slowly. I saw him again this week (late-night), and we've had several lengthy conversations (never discussing the relationship, of course). Yesterday he contacted me from out-of-town just to say hi, which was very good. And today, for the first time in over a month, I initiated contact -- just a quick IM. It's not that I "needed" to, but the fact that I felt comfortable enough to send one was a big step.

 

I'm also starting to change my mentality on this whole situation. At first, I thought there would be some dramatic "let's get back together" talk after a period of no contact. Now, I wonder if it will be more subtle than that. . . just a slow working back together that takes place over many months. I've also started to realize that even after a "let's get back together" talk (if there ever is one), things would have to progress slowly. . . we've been through so much these past few months that we could never just jump back to where we were. And I guess we wouldn't want to. . . the relationship wasn't working before, so of course we'd have to make some changes if we want it to work this time around.

 

So simple. . . but so hard.

[shockeddismayed]

DaisyB,

 

It was nice to catch up on your thread... I hadn't seen it before, so it was nice to see the story of someone who has been helping me along.

 

Not that the story is wonderful, but it is inspiring to see you taking this so well... I know you are having down days too, but you seem to be doing all the right things to take the positives out of this situation. Kudos!

 

I agree with you... it is tough to envision the "right" way to do things in order to get back together. Will it be a "big even" or just slowly working back into things? I don't know if there is a correct answer. However I had a conversation with my sister today that reminded me of things that we have all read/heard before. Really, there may be NO WAY for us to exert control over the future... we can guess and second guess, but in the end, what will happen will happen. Certainly there are choices, but I'm just not sure how much they will impact our EXes.

 

Best then just to focus on what you can do for yourself... respond to each choice in the way that you think is best for you... not what you think might bring your EX back. And try to find some peace with the things we can't control....

 

You seem to be doing very well with this

[DaisyB]

I wish we could curse here. I've got a string of expletives running through my head right now. . .

 

Well, things HAD been going well. I got home tonight and there was a message from the ex that he wanted to talk. . . about Us.

 

Sure enough. . . he had heard that some friends of a friend were interested in me, and he was bothered about that. . . which went into a three-hour discussion about the relationship.

 

I admit it. I went into it hoping that he'd had some sort of revelation. I should have waited till tomorrow, so I could gear myself up for it, but I was just too excited. I tried to play it cool before I spilled my guts. . . but out they came. Good, in some ways. Good to get all of it out on the table.

 

Bad, in so many others. We didn't get anything resolved. He still wants to be broken up, he's afraid the changes in us won't last, he's afraid of getting married. . .

 

He also said true but horrible things, like he wasn't interested in dating right now, but he might be soon (which I knew, but I hated to hear him say), that breaking up with me was the last resort -- that he hated to do it, but he couldn't do anything else (bad in the sense of making me feel like I really blew it), that he didn't understand why we didn't work before, and until he understood, he didn't want to be together again.

 

I tried so hard not to plead. I think I did okay, but any sort of "aloofness" was long gone by the end of the conversation.

 

He initiated the talk, otherwise I never would have had it. So how did it end up with ME doing the pleading?

 

What's the next step? NC again? I doubt he'll be trying to contact me every day now. All that flirting and playing aloof, down the drain in three hours. I feel like I blew it, and it wasn't even my fault.

 

I said to him, "I wish I had the chance to prove to you that the changes will last," and he said, "I wish you didn't have to wish for that." What sort of reply is THAT?

 

Like so many of us, I'm now drafting a letter. Don't worry, I'll wait before I send it. It's taking all the willpower I can muster not to call him again right now.

 

Luckily I am now SuperDaisy, stronger than a locomotive. I will not call him back. I will write him a pleading letter and not send it. Then I will write him a nasty letter and not send it. Then next weekend I will visit those friends of a friend who, apparently, think I am such a good catch, and flirt my heart out.

[shockeddismayed]

Oh Daisy...

 

I'm sorry to hear that things didn't go well (at least in the short-term) with your talk.

 

I know you heard some things that upset you... but I'd like to be the first to try and see the positive in the situation.

 

1) You seem like you are already on the right track. You know how to do the things for yourself to be happy.

2) NC might be the best thing for both of you right now... you've tried to keep up the contact and it hasn't worked (yet). However it DID leave him with the impression of the improved you... he said he wasn't sure whether the changed "us" would last, but he DID see it. That will weigh heavily on his heart.

3) B/C of 2 above, now if you start NC, you have left things in a place that could seed some doubts for him... and he's been eating his cake, so NC may make him see what he is loosing out on.

4) He'll be worried that he just told you about others who are interested in you....

5) This might be the hard one to take.... but he has given you enough closure that you can run with it. He hasn't closed the door on you guys completely yet, but you should try and see this as what might be a logical ending point. You need that for your own happiness... to realize that he might not get over this committment fear, and realize that it is sad for HIM, NOT for you.

 

Most importantly... I don't see anything wrong with the way you've acted. I think what you said, you needed to do for YOU. Even if you were down on your knees begging (I know you weren't) it isn't anything a little NC can't remedy. He'll know that his conversation has put the real risk of losing you... and judging by how much he'd been enjoying the contact too, it WILL hurt him.

 

If anything, he is the one who just messed up here... not you.

 

Be strong... aloof and strong... if he IMs you make sure your general attitude is "whatever buddy, you've made your decision and it is the wrong one... now you have to live with it, cuz I deserve better"

[DaisyB]

Thank you so much for your quick repsonse, S&D. I've re-read it several times over. I might even print it out so I can keep reading it.

 

I spent a mostly sleepless night thinking about our conversation. . . I wish I knew why he'd called me to have the whole relationship talk, if his mentality is still "nothing had changed." I wish I knew why he seemed so eager to contact me these past few weeks if he doesn't want anything to change. What is he thinking? Why is this still so hard?

 

Bad morning. . .

[strong1]

Don't be so hard on yourself. Next time...you'll have a lot of ammo you can use. For instance..now you know to wait for those returned calls to him until you can get a better 'game plan' and not be so blindsided. I would have done JUST the same thing you did tho..and called back the same night. Hard to have willpower ALL the time.

 

I also think it was good that he called you to discuss this rather than just 'running away' as ppl w/commitment fears seem to do. Since you have already established to him that you are not chasing him..but are happy and keeping busy (or so he thinks..ha ha), the key next time you talk..is just be agreeable to what he says..hard as it is. When he says things like 'we aren't ready to be together yet' you say...'you know..I agree with you.' And when he says 'we had so many challenges in the past..and I'm not sure they've changed.' And you say, 'Oh, goodness, that is true.' To mix it up a bit more..you might even want to add...'and it's really best that we're just good friends at this point.' Those might be the little things that would throw him for a loop. If you can say those things..in a cheery, non frightened manner...it might peak his curiosity. Don't argue with him...don't try to prove to him that you or relationship issues have changed. If you AGREE with him...he could wonder 'oh my GOD..is she finally ditching me? What I have done?' Etc. It may be that if YOU start agreeing with HIM he could start to feel safer in his feelings..while being more threatened that he's lost you. IMAGINE THAT!!! You know how some ppl like to 'win' or 'prove others wrong?' And sometimes guys like that challenge? Who knows. Give it a shot. I'm also dating a guy EXACTLY like yours who goes from wanting to get married one day..to freakout out and 'needing space.' So last time I saw him (see my last post) I just tried to be agreeable and his 'buddy' and his body language improved considerably. So from now on (until he comes back on bended knee..ha ha) I'll be his 'friend', his 'shoulder to try on'...his 'sounding board' while he is going through his work crisis. And see where it goes. How can they help but fall in love w/such supportive, centered FABULOUS chicks?!

 

As I recall..your ex felt that things had just lost a bit of 'zip' correct? Well..next time you see him..drop a few zippy things in. New haircut...new outfit..something you wouldn't usually wear..oh, and drop in a few tidbits about that 'skydiving' jump age 'going to do/just did.' That'd knock his sox off. Anything you were scared to do in the past..give it a shot now. Go on a roller coaster ride (other than the emotional one you are on now), get a motorcycle, take scuba lessons, a painting class..something that will make him see a whole new side of you. It works amazingly well. I took a trip w/some girlfriends a month after we broke up. I NEVER would have done that before. He CERTAINLY asks a LOT of questions about it now!

[Belle]

Shocked&dismayed,

I really liked your advice, particularly the last bit. I think that Daisy has been patient enough and in my experience the only way to get a guy to realize what he's lost is to totally move forward and date other guys. The threat of losing the one he loves keeps him from taking her for granted and realize that someone else may make her happier and that she won't need him anymore. Guys are just made that way. The funny thing I've noticed is that when I have completely made up my mind to move on, I DON'T LOOK BACK. Not all of the roses, crying or I'm sorrys are enough to go back to the kind of crap that daisy's going through now. There are too many guys out there who would like a shot at making me happy. I think we forget this (particularly women).

 

Case in point, a friend of mine was in a 5-6 year relationship of back and forth with a noncommital guy. They broke up for a year and a half, she was devastated. She met someone else she was crazy about. noncommital guy came back and asked her to marry him. She didn't because she had already moved on.

 

I can't speak for what happens for the guys (although I must admit here that I am noncommital and I think that is why my ex is punishing me now) but for guys they always seem to want what they can't have. Better to find one that knows what he wants. It just seems like a lot of unnecessary heartache otherwise.

 

And if you don't find one like that right away, there's so much beauty in this world to be enjoying. The sunshine outside in teh Spring, the beautiful little girl who comes over and squeals at you and is enthralled, the men (or women) who can't stop staring at you when you go out with your girlfriends, the fact that you know that real, honest, grounding love is out there if we let ourselves be open to it, nature, personal growth and an endless number of things that make me happy to be alive despite the pain.

 

If we could just all get to this point we'd be ready to move on and let the ex feel the agony that they've lost us due to their own stupidity: "whatever buddy, you've made your decision and it is the wrong one... now you have to live with it, cuz I deserve better"

 

Belle

[GeeCee]

DaisyB

 

I am going to keep reading Belle's post. You should too. Strong1 should as well.

 

We are not stupid women. We are being blindsided by a very dangerous love. We cannot live like this forever. I am beginning to think that one day we shall look back on this and say .... WTF, I DID THAT!?!?!?

 

One day .....

 

G xx

[Belle]

GeeCee,

Funny thing is that I haven't been in this place for over 10 years when I was addicted to an alcoholic who treated me so bad that I swore I'd never love a guy who didn't treat me right. All ofmy relationships since then have been with really good guys. Unfortunately that has happened again and although I'm not at square one again, I do have to go through the withdrawals and building of my self esteem again. Baby steps.

 

Belle

[GeeCee]

Belle

 

You are absolutely right. Baby steps towards all that we desire!

 

G xx

[shockeddismayed]

Girls...

 

I'm glad I could help in some small way.

 

Obviously none of you deserve to have been put in the positions you are in. It can make it really difficult to focus on the positive, but it sounds like you are all doing very well.

 

In addition to the "I deserve better" attitude, I also had some luck finding peace in some words that my father gave to me. He is a retired English teacher, so he was able to borrow from his background a bit and describe a place of peace that we all need to reach. I believe this is adapted from Beckett.

 

He described peace as a wheel... the wheel is turned on its side, and it spins like a top. At the centre of the wheel, we stand... our paths laid out in front of us are the spokes. There comes a time when we realize that we cannot stop the wheel from spinning... all of our mortal actions are powerless against fate or God (or whatever power)... we need then to accept what we cannot change and be at peace. The wheel spins on its hub, which narrows and narrows until it reaches the point on which is spins. All of the electrons and molecules of the wheel are also spinning... none of them at rest... none of them at peace. But as you reach closer to the point the wheel rests on, you realize that there must be one electron. One molecule upon which the wheel is balanced... one place of peace. When you've found that place, you have removed yourself from the spinning chaos above you... you are at peace, and can simply "be" as you wait for the better times ahead.

 

I hope you will all find some peace in your situations.

 

I myself was almost there... I'd started to feel better... I'd actually sent that writing above to my EX (along with a bit more) and I was living with it. It felt good to share it with her. That lasted all of 4 days, then she responded back... it had a positive impact on her and she was feeling so overwelmed that she was remembering the "real" me. She wrote to me that she'd want to try again if she still felt "this way" in a while.... now I am so anxious... I worry that I can't get to my peaceful place anymore... that the anticipation of a conversation that might never happen is eating away at me, and it has only been two weeks since she wrote it.

[GeeCee]

S&D

 

Thank for those lovely words, borrowed from your father. Fantastic stuff, and so damn accurate. We are all going to find our inner peace, we all know that it will come. Yours too.

 

What a hideous journey, but imagine the rewards in the long term - with or without the ex, I am now thinking!

 

G xx

[DaisyB]

Thank you guys so much -- GeeCee, Belle, Strong1. . . I feel stronger just reading your words. S&D -- your father's words (or Beckett's) are wonderful. . . I will keep seeking that peace.

 

I went back to bed after this morning's chaos, but not before -- oh, yes -- contacting the ex. He called me back this afternoon, and we talked about last night.

 

I know that contacting him was a rule-breaking thing to do, but I'm glad I did it. It helped me get some closure on the conversation (well, as much closure as we can get, at this point), and I guess you know by now that I'm a fan of honesty. I didn't want to keep these feelings all bottled up so that they exploded the next time I talked to him, or that they festered and made me a bitter old woman.

 

I didn't get too dramatic with it -- just said that I'm glad we talked about the things we talked about last night, but the conversation also made me uneasy. . . and I gave some reasons why. Nothing accusatory ("you never know what you want") but truthful ("I'm frustrated and scared because I don't know what's going to happen"). It felt SO good.

 

And you know what? It's time to change the game. From here on out I'm contacting him if I want to. I think I'm strong enough to do that now. I took a risk last night and this afternoon to express my feelings honestly, but -- I hope -- with dignity. If my honesty turns him away, then at least I can take comfort in knowing that I did all I could do. If my honesty wins him back, then I'll know he's coming back for the real me. In the end, that's all I have to offer, anyway.

 

So -- once more into the breach, dear friends. Older and wiser, every day.

[GeeCee]

Good for you DaisyB - good for you. I completey agree - you should call him when you want, and be the person you are.

 

This surely is a rocky road.

 

G xx

[Berty75]

I completely agree with you Daisy! You have so much more power then you think. He has so much more to lose then you do. He is the one with commitment issues. Be you. Be strong. Kick his emotionally unstable butt! Ok, I got alittle carried away But I do think when he finally realizes that you're not going to wait forever with arms open and a forgiving heart, he'll come around. He just needs a little shove in that direction. Shake him up. Work on you. And maybe, when your finally on the other side of this all... you will find yourselves back together (better then before) or completely over it. Either way, love is surely going to come your way again. To all of us...I hope You have a great support system going and a lot of people on your side.

 

Good Luck!

*I sent you a PM-check it out.

[strong1]

(I can never get those stupid quotes to work.) As Bertie says..."Work on you. And maybe, when your finally on the other side of this all... you will find yourselves back together (better then before) or completely over it. Either way, love is surely going to come your way again. To all of us...I hope You have a great support system going and a lot of people on your side."

 

BERTIE ROCKS! I couldn't agree with you more. A good guy friend sent this to me today...I think you'll enjoy it: (no offense to the guys out there...some women are more content with the 'easy to access fruit' too)

 

"Women are like apples on trees. The best ones are at the top of the tree.

Most men don't want to reach for the good ones because they are afraid of falling and getting hurt. Instead, they just get the rotten apples from the ground that aren't as good, but easy....... So the apples at the top think something is wrong with them, when in reality, they're amazing. They just have to wait for the right man to come along, the one who's brave enough to climb all the way to the top of the tree."

 

LADIES...we sometimes forget in this seemingly endless process that we are bright, pretty, fun, loving, etc., etc. (too numerous to mention ALL the ways in which we are fab.) One man rejects us..for a time..and suddenly, we feel lower than dirt. Well ladies, get up, dust yourself off..and fight the good fight. We shall be JUST FINE!!! We may not be perfect...but we do need a man who loves us for who we are..just the way we are (ooh..a quote right out of Bridget Jones' Diary.) Seriously tho, do you want to go through the rest of your life walking on eggshells...worrying that every move may send them running for cover? I think not. We may have made mistakes..we are improving ourselves..and they should either love us THE WAY WE ARE NOW ... or there's surely another man out there who will. They just need to realize that. And they will if we just stay our FABULOUS selves and continue our lives w/our heads held high.

 

My new attitude is going to be 'take my FABULOUS self or leave me buster. Cuz there's another bus comin' along every FIVE MINUTES' NEXT!!!! NOW GO FORTH AND CONQUER.

[shockeddismayed]

I dunno about that....

 

I could get my head lopped off here... but the flipside of the apple story is that when someone risks years climbing the tree, you high-growing apples might be too busy with your own independence to be able to let that tree-climber in.

 

I consider myself a patient tree climber... and I've seen enough of those thin branches break under the strain of having a climber climb where no-one else has dared.

[strong1]

Hmm. Not sure I'm following you. But, as a sassy, flavorful Grannysmith at the top of the tree...I've seen a few years of migrant orchard workers (by 'migrant' I mean the ones that go for orchard to orchard whenever the 'benefits' and 'pickin's' seem better elsewhere..or they just get too 'stressed' or their jobs are too 'overwhelming' to think about harvest the apples, etc.) come and go.

 

The only reason some apples in their prime become too independent is because we've seen one too many workers reach for us..only to grab on..then suddenly decide they need a nap in the shade..alone..before resuming the harvest. ; )

 

I think I need to close the orchard until the blight has passed.

[DaisyB]

Amidst all these apple analogies, I thought I'd post an update. . .

 

With my new-found freedom, I emailed him last night some more of my thoughts on the relationship. That's right -- the big no-no. I even mentioned the m-word a few times. But at this point, what's to lose?

 

He IMed last night after I'd already gone to bed, and twice again tonight, while I was out (I love when I'm unavailable without even trying!) and said thanks for the email, and that he wanted to talk to me soon. So, so far, so good. . .

 

By the way, Strong1, I would also be a Granny Smith. No contest on that one.

[strong1]

Hmm. I like that you contacted him. I think even non-commital guys like ours can stand a little contact after awhile. I'm getting back into the 'contact' mode again next week. It's good for them to see that we are not angry (as I think that keeps some guys from coming back) and that we are happy..and ready to move on if needed (which tends to catch their attention. Can't wait to see how this goes.. GREAT that your guy IMd you back so soon and wants to chat. Hmmm.

[Berty75]

yeah! Good for you Daisy!

 

You have exactly the right idea. Put it out there, but with confidence. It is really tuff to do and sometimes, especailly when they pull back, the confidence waivers a bit. Stick to it. You are my hero! Keep us updated in what happens next.

 

I'm interested in what you said in the email and what his response is??

[strong1]

Go to page 12 of this post..where we're comparing apples to well..apples..and look at the Google ad at the right side of the screen. Guess the ad is based on key words in our posts! EERIE.

 

Daisy..and updates?

 

Applesauce (AKA "Strong1")