EXGF has coldfeet! The end of the road.

[dikaia880]

I think things are going good....your call this morning went alright, but try not to do that too much...It sort of shows you backing down or insecure about things...try not to over analyze the things you say or how she responds...you seem really good at going with the flow of conversation...just let that take over, I think it's a big thing that you brought up the "Fun" list, it gives her good things (and good memories) to think of on her trip...

[shockeddismayed]

dikaia,

 

You've hit the nail on the head....

 

I do generally feel like I've been VERY good at reading the conversation up until recently... the problem is that I've noticed the deeper into these "negotiations" we get, the more I am starting to lose my "filter".

 

I go in with a plan, but I end up revealing maybe just a bit more than I should. It isn't that I give away the farm and beg, but just that I knew before our chat we were both reaching a saturation point... I think because of that, as soon as she gave me a segway I went right into "actually what has really been bothering me is.... " even though I knew it was best not to say it right now. I know I need to be honest with her, but timing is pretty key. Luckily I got away with it... I was honest without her feeling I was blaming her... but I'm walking a fine line.

 

As for the phonecall this am... true... I risk looking insecure... but she's given me 3-4 of those after almost every chat there is always a call from her saying "I forgot to tell you....". But I agree... I need to stop second guessing.

 

I feel like I'm getting weaker.... I'm letting my guard down. It is coming out as honesty, but it is dangerous in that I might push her back away.

 

It's such a line... if I keep myself guarded she thinks I don't care (and has said so)... she'll hold me or kiss me and I'm frozen. If I try to let my guard down I risk an "emotional boil-over".

 

I think I am glad she is gone for a few days... I need to re-energize.

 

LOL... I mean look at me... I'd almost stopped posting until all of these recent contacts, and now I can't focus on work.. I spend the whole day here trying to get insight. Then checking my email to see if she's contacted me... then procrastinating on my work email with an old friend who's been supporting me.

 

I think I need a forced break from all of this... obviously we have both hit a wall... we're emotionally drained. It's a good thing this trip came when it did for her... and luckily I'm up to my best pal's cottage this weekend.

[dikaia880]

It does get draining...I'm on this site way too much at work...but it helps me get through...just reading whats going on with other people and giving whatever advice I can (even if it doesn't help LOL) helps me deal better...it helps me get my mind off my ex...

 

Go have a great weekend, use this time to reflect and hopefuly forget about her for awhile...re-energize!

[Mun]

Gosh you were not kidding Shocked.. this is really a long thread. I have to be honest I didn't read all of it.. just skimmed through it...I think you might not be seeing too clearly yet since you are so close to the situation. How long have you gone with NC? Have you even tried it? She left you .. right? Wanted space etc. Give it to her. Don't be afraid to lose her, even to another guy. Let her see what is out there for herself.

 

You need to have some space too. You are going crazy here thinking of her and of this situation. While I do say that I admire a guy who cares about his relationships this much ( and there are many on this Forum) it's wreaking havoc on the rest of your life! Do both of you a favor and ease up. Don't answer all her calls.. don't call her constantly, don't become her "friend" let her sort out her issues on her own. While she is trying to figure things out for herself, you are getting hurt over and over again. Let her go and think this out. She will find you when she is ready.

 

I know I told someone else this : Pressure is not good. You can't put yourself on hold ( and don't tell someone you are waiting) while the other person is working things out. Have your own life !

 

(It feels awful to know that the other person is looking to YOU for their every move and to know that their entire happiness depends on you. That is way too much pressure for one person)So Relax!

She wants to work this out. She is in counseling, She talks to you still. She has told you what her issues are and you have done the same. So what's the problem? Give it time and give her space.

 

When a woman says "no" you can still persue her but you must do it with respect and a little distance.

[shockeddismayed]

Muneca,

 

Thanks for your advice... I certainly didn't expect you to read the whole thread... it is a long one... but I'm simply using it as a journal mostly for myself.

 

As for NC. Yes... I am now 3 1/2 months out from breakup. I used NC for the first month, only contacting her for "house" related stuff like moving my things out, changing over bills, etc. I'll admit I put a bit of pressure on earlier in order to get some closure, but backed right off once my angry stage hit.

 

In the 2nd month I moved into a more peaceful place... and gave her a note about my peace. Her response was basically "that's the person I am so drawn to, but you hadn't been him in so long... I'm confused... but if I still feel this way about you in a while, I'll want to try again." I didn't respond to her letter for 10 days... fielded a crying phonecall from her and then nothing until we met by chance 3 weeks later. That week there was contact daily by both of us, and we had several "us" talks centred around getting back together... and on healing from what had pulled us apart.

 

In month 3 there was a lull after our chance meeting... partly b/c her email thanking me for a b-day card was lost. But after 3 weeks from the card (or 4 weeks from our last phonecall) I broke the silence... she was really happy to hear from me as she thought I'd been giving her NC since her lost email. Since then we have been in contact quite a bit, with her asking to meet up to sort out our issues.

 

So I certainly see your point about not pushing, and while it does seem as though there has been lots of contact, there have also been many periods of NC. Until recently the only contact was through email, and while I have been calling her, I've made sure that my calls were simply follow-ups to her phonecalls. I've only called twice in a row once (my most recent phonecall) and that was mostly just to give her a "safe trip" message.

 

I see the risk that I am being pulled back in too close to be able to see... but the flipside is that if we ARE working this out (and it does sorta appear we are), I need to be there working on things with her.

 

She's been away now on her trip now for 6 days and I WILL let her initiate contact when she gets back. She'll likely contact me for my birthday this wednesday. Are you suggesting that I IGNORE her contact muneca?

 

There are two sides to all of this... and I've expressed it to her... but the longer she takes to figure things out, the more I start to doubt that she could be the one for me. I want a partner who won't run from problems... one who believes in me, believes in us, and believes in herself. Mature partnerships (which we should be at after 7 years) should be about working through things together. I understand she was upset with things and needed to heal, but if she can't see the potential in "us" after the time she's had, why should I be willing to keep giving her more... and why should I be willing to let her string me along without any comittment to things?

[Scout]

Shocked, PLEASE keep re-reading Muneca's advice. It's about the best I've seen on this thread, and the gist of it is to keep these two mantras in your head: Stop thinking about this so much, and There is hope, she wants to try & she's in counseling.

 

Please - you are starting to waaaaay over analyze everything, and it will only cause you more stress the more you keep second guessing everything including yourself. You have an excellent chance of reconciling with your ex, but you have got to separate yourself a little bit somehow from all this. I know it's hard, but really, there is a lot going on in your favor right now, so you should allow yourself a little room to relax and kind of let things unfold a bit. You have worked hard, but it's possible to overwork this. So just relax. Let things be. Don't give up, or give in - just give.

[craigblitz]

Yeah I I agree buddy.... you have some very good things going on right now as far as getting back together. TRUST ME I know it seems like forever becasue you are 100% sold and ready to have her back, but I guess things like this takes time. People tell me I have a shot at my ex too, I don't see it becasue it has been over a month so what could she still questioning....lol That is the impatience in me. I know she is at a cross roads in her life and probally just needs to clear stuff....

 

Hang in there

[shockeddismayed]

Gang...

 

I appreciate your advice.

 

I agree that you are all getting the impression that I am losing my grip on the situation. You may be right... but keep in mind that this is the place I am using to VENT my frustrations, so you are hearing the worst of it... and one of my frustrations is that I am getting wound back up in all this. I recognize that.

 

On the positive side... it is better I get this stuff off my chest here than when I am in contact with her.

 

I also agree... getting youself removed from things was much easier when there was no contact... it is much harder to keep perspective now.

 

Step 1: Go for a run tonight.

Step 2: Hope I get a clearer message for my birthday... go from there.

 

Finally... as the overanalyzing comment. It is incredibly true... but I feel it wasn't totally MY choice. Afterall, SHE asked me to go through the whole exercise of writing down what went wrong and what could be improved, etc. That stirred things back up that I'd already dealt with and put away. If ever there was a bigger over-analyzer than me, I've met her.

 

All I want is for us to "just hang out", simply things, and go from there. But I'm not calling the shots here....

[Mun]

Not true Shock, there are two people involved here and both of you call the shots. YOU police your behavior and she does the same to hers. What you do and how you behave has consequences... think about it.

 

Once your behavior changes the other person's changes too...that's the beauty of it. No man is an Island.

 

You have power here too, it's in how you handle things and how you respond.

 

I'm an over-analyzer too so I know how you think. Sometimes it's just easier and better to have faith and go with gut instinct.

[shockeddismayed]

Muneca,

 

I should have expected this type of response.... Thank you.

 

Just so that I don't misinterpret your encouragement I will assume that you:

1) Think I should wait until she responds after her trip.

2) If she doesn't respond, i should completely write her off indefinitely.

3) Continue living only for me... even if that means going on dates, ignoring an occasional call from her, etc.

 

yes?

[Mun]

NO Silly .. that is not what I meant at all. I meant it as it read .. nothing more nothing less. Keep doing what you are doing now. You are on the right track. Let her sort out her issues. Don't push her.

Do your own thing in the meantime. Live your life. She has not said "goodbye" why would you write her off? I told you to not call so much and not take all her calls only because you seemed to obsess and worry so much over that. Dissecting every call and every conversation ( I do that too )

 

What I wrote before was more like "information" not to be taken literally.

[shockeddismayed]

Gotcha!

 

So what you meant was..... just kidding.

 

I will let you all know if anything worth reporting happens.... but then you know that.

 

Have a good day all.

[shockeddismayed]

Ok,

 

So we left things at her going away on a trip to relax from our drama, and maybe focus on positive things... like a top ten list of what she'd look forward to if we tried again.

 

This am I got this message on my cell while I was in the shower:

 

"Hi Shocked, Happy Birthday! (Pleasant voice)

 

I was wondering, if you have time, or maybe before you go out to celebrate, if you'd mind if I stopped by to see you and drop off something for you. Or maybe if you have time for a coffee that would be cool. (somewhat nervous, but pleasant)

 

Give me a shout back to let me know."

 

As it turns out, I have a soccer game tonight, and it's my turn to bring the team beer (meaning I have to stay until people all leave). Usually things wrap up around 8:30-9pm. I had tentative plans to go for a pint with my roomies after... but nothing firm.

 

Q: Do you think that it is in my best interest to try and hook up with her tonight (risk looking lonely on my B-Day), or to defer till tomorrow (she realizes I'm busy.. but I'm willing to give her time at my convenience). She still has the week off work/school, so there is a possibility that she might be planning to go out of town for the rest of the week to her parents, and thereforeeee not available tomorrow.

 

Thoughts?

 

PS: I don't have my "what would be fun" list done. I was waiting to do it until I had an indication that she was going to do one too (why do it if it only brings up old wounds). There was no indication from her message what she is bringing me... it could be a nice list/letter, or just a card... or a bottle of scotch (most likely).

[dikaia880]

hmmm...what do you want to do? Don't play games with her about time and all that...if you read Danimals latest posts you will find out that he over played the game....

If you are too busy let her know if not met up with her...why not? If you met a girl you liked and just started dating would you be too busy for her?

I like to look at it that way, she's a new girl...

Good luck...and how could they make you bring the beer if it's your b-day?

[craigblitz]

Yeah either tell her a time before the game or make it tomorrow.. That way no games are being played but showing her that you are busy and stuff you know.

 

BTW Happy Birthday man!!!

[dikaia880]

Craig's right...you are busy let her know and try (maybe not all that hard) to squeeze her in, but if not do it tomorrow...Happy B-day!

[Scout]

Go ahead and do what you had originally planned on your birthday today, you do want to look somewhat busy and not desperate. This is going extremely well...just stay with it, you two are on the verge of getting back together. We're all rooting for you!

[shockeddismayed]

You are right... I am busy tonight.

 

I'll call her to feel her out for tomorrow. I'd perfer to get together when we both have a bit of time... just in case we decide to make it dinner or a nice LIGHT chat.

 

I'll keep you posted.

 

S&D

[shockeddismayed]

Settled....

 

Beer and/or food on a patio tomorrow night.

 

Now I just need to find time to get a haircut

[Scout]

YaY!!!

[Mun]

Happy Birthday !!!

[shockeddismayed]

Ok...

 

Man o man it is hard to walk the walk. I feel like everything is two steps forward and one backward at this point.

 

Overall, I think we'd both agree that the night went well... but I have to learn that whenever I try to make the night less confusing (for me), I end up lessening it's positive impact on her.

 

For example:

 

Tonight we went out for dinner (lobster), had lots of fun laughing at how clumsy we were... she'd ask me to help her crack her lobster open... etc. Lots of smiles... lots of laughs. We both complimented each other on things... very "first date like" in that it was pleasant, but there were some nerves. At one point she started to tell me that she'd spent a lot of her trip writing about us/me... that she made some tough revelations about herself (she gave me the impression she was realizing what she'd done to inadvertantly contribute to our downfall). I told her she didn't need to get into it tonight if she didn't want to ... she agreed and said that she would write it down and send it to me. I asked whether she'd focussed any time on the positive "top ten" list, and she said she did and would send it to me too. We switched the subject and had more fun.

 

Then we went down the street for desert and coffee. Split a chocolate cheesecake... again, all very nice. The one serious thing she slipped in was that she's been feeling terrible for the fact that she let things get so far that she had to break up with me... she also admitted it may have been too "drastic". I just told her not to beat herself up... look at the future. Later, a handsome older guy came into the cafe, and EX took a look at him... then she turned to me and said "see that good lookin' guy? That's you in 10 years."

 

We left and went for a walk up the street toward my apartment... we held hands for about two blocks until we saw my roommates walking toward us. Immediately she dropped my hand and even after they left, she wouldn't hold it again (but I didn't let it bother me). We walked past my (craptastic) building to a beautiful area of town... marvelled at the $1,000,000 homes. We were certainly tapping into some of our common (but likely unrealistic) dreams together.

 

EX starts talking about how I am in a good situation... that in talking to her girlfriends (most of them single) she is starting to realize that most of them would be thrilled to settle for a guy (in her words) that is half as amazing as me... she jokes that I'd have no trouble on the dating scene. I don't buy that BS, but I thought I'd play it up a bit and said "Oh I know that... I'm not worried if it comes to that".

 

On the way back she started talking about our parents... EX talks about her mom and that her mother recently admitted to EX for the first time how controlled she feels by EX's dominant father. EX and I both have strong personalities, so one of her original concerns was that neither of us would ever back down, however hearing her talk about her mom (who is very passive) I am wondering whether she is seeing that maybe it isn't necessarily a better match to have dominant person with a passive person. I mentioned, and she agreed, that our generation seems to be way pickier choosing a mate... that she and I have had way more heart to hearts and overanalysis than our parents ever would have... that in their circumstances, we'd probably been married years ago... and that we might be overanalyzing "us" to death. She recognized that.

 

Anyway... so far, so good.... some heavy stuff, but we're doing allright.

 

So we get to my building and I start to feel quite awkward. I should have just let things go, but I guess I didn't prepare myself well enough for the END of the night...

 

I asked whether she'd like to come up for a drink on the balcony... she says not tonight, need to get to bed. I said no trouble... we chat a bit more. She jokes about how serious she was as a kid, and that she feels she is regressing. I ask 'so is missing out on wild times what all this is about? Are you going to go into a mad partying and dating stage?" She says no way. Then I ask "well what's up then? Should I be turning down dates (yes, I know, mistake)?" She says no... then quickly follows up with "why, who would you date?". I dodge it and joke "didn't you say all the girls our age would be looking for me?" She chuckles.

 

She looks at me again, and I was wearing my confusion on my face, so she said. "Look, we both wanted to just go out and have some fun... let's leave the tough questions alone, ok?". I said yeah, no prob (but unfortunately I probably wasn't that convincing).

 

She brings up her writing about us again and says, "you know, the one thing that really worries me is that I now see all the things I did to make you resent me... that I hurt you quite a bit without knowing it, even before I broke things off... it feels like it is too much for me to fix". I told her (very calmly) that she was being silly and sounding like a quitter... that it would be impossible for her to try and fix things by herself without my help, but that it is something that is likely fixable if we both work on it. She agrees with that point.

 

After that she gets up for a hug. She tells me she had a great time, and we have a nice long hug and say goodbye.

 

I turn toward the building and then turn back around to stroll to her car. She rolls down the window and says "I sense and ultimatum coming". "No, no ultimatum, but I do think we should at least be working toward the point where we can admit what we are hoping for... with no promises, we should at least be able to say we are hoping things will work out btwn us... without that things seem awkward btwn us, and I find it difficult to know how to respond even to your hug." She replied "well I thought you just wanted for us to go out and have fun and I really had a good time tonight, and enjoyed the hug, didn't you feel anything?". Me: "I guess I just feel guarded, that I have some barriers to break down... you are probably right... maybe we just need a few more nights like this, that it will help me break things down, and help us both figure out how we feel" Her: "Yes, well I felt awkward holding your hand, so I agree... we both need to work past these things." Me: Ok, so let me try this again... I had a great time tonight too... it was wonderful to see your smile again... give me a call if you'd like to go out again sometime". Her: "Ok, goodnight... listen to the CD I bought you and have a great weekend. "

 

 

UGGGGHHHHG... So there you go. A positive night, where I could have been in the drivers seat(if I'd kept my mouth shut), yet instead I end up:

a) making her feel somewhat pressured

b) making her admit she isn't ready to keep me from dating others.

c) reinforcing her fear that what she's done will have caused barriers (or worse yet, resentment) in me.

d) reinforcing her fear that perhaps my feelings are gone/will not return.

e) showing some impatience

[craigblitz]

Kick a$$ mate. Do not beat yourself over this one. I think you handled it great. I really do, there are going to be awkward moments after the first like date you know. It is hard putting away the past while working on the future that is your past if that makes sense. Next date just go out and live it up, be cautious not to be strung, but put the guard down to have fun.

 

I am REALLY happy for you man

[shockeddismayed]

Thanks for the encouragement Craig.

 

This morning I'm feeling the "general positiveness" of the interaction. I'm also saying to myself "even if you are putting a bit of pressure on, that isn't such a bad thing... you told yourself a few weeks ago that you were losing patience... you want her to keep working on this and stop running from it".

 

On that note... two more things that she brought up last night:

 

"I feel like I am a bit further behind than you b/c for the first month I just stalled and hid from my feelings... but I've been putting myself through heck the last few weeks to try and catch up and figure things out".

 

"I'm really looking forward to seeing a counsellor about this... even if all they do is reflect back what I am saying, it may make it easier for me to see things clearly".

 

*********

 

So given the interaction, would you send an email (today or sometime over the weekend) to say "thanks for a great time on thursday... I'm still busy getting your "flying lobster guts" out of my fancy new shirt" (she'd commented how good it looked on me)?

[Fletch F. Fletch]

Anybody can talk a better game, but I dont think anybody could have actually done a better job. Kudos to you. As I said to you in my PM, you are in the finesse phase. Its tough to be delicate for an entire date with your stronger emotions swirling in the background. They slipped out a couple of times. So be it, your recognized it, you controlled it. She knows you care.

 

You have the right strategy. The next meeting should be light as well. No deep talks. Let he sort out her feelings, and she will come to you when she is ready. The tough part will be when you do have the deeper talk about the feelings, what they mean, and what she wants to do about them. But I am sure you have already thought about that.

 

Patience sucks. Keep your head-up. You are in great shape.