Did I blow it? Long talk with the ex...

[LostinVan]

Some preamble. My ex is a definite walk-away-wife who has remained friendly and constantly says "I worry about you". But she also says (repeatedly) that she cannot ever see us together again.

 

Today we had a long talk. I made two confessions to her - the confessions were telling her my reasons for not doing two things that were important to her in our past relationship. I didn't do them, not because she wasn't important to me (she was and is), not because I didn't want to support her (I did and do), but because of my own embarrassment and insecurities. I explained them clearly and logically to her today, and she was happy to hear it, and happy to realise it wasn't her... it wasn't me not supporting her or wanting to show affection - it was me and my insecurities. She immediately felt better about herself.

 

But here's where I think I blew it. At one point later on in our talk, I told her that I hoped, at some point in the future, we could date again. I said that I'm putting the past relationship in the past, but I wanted to see if, in the future when we were both ready, if we could find happiness in each other again.

 

She started crying and said "you still don't understand. It's over. I can't be with you any longer." The conversation drifted to the subject of dating others, and I asked her if she had been She said yes, which nearly destroyed me because it's only been a scant 15 days since our break up.

 

I recovered enough to say what was in my mind and heart. I said "the old relationship is dead and history to me now too . I would never even consider asking you out on a date again if I thought the old relationship is where we would be heading. I don't want that. I will never want that. I'm burying all the bad things from the past, and focusing on the present and future, and focusing on positives from now on." I also told her I admired her courage and stance in ending the relationship as it was.

 

It was left at that. No indication from her that anything, even a casual date would be possible.

 

So, did I blow it?

 

LostinVan

[Mar]

I don't think you blew it.......but I think that because she seems very positive right this second that she doesn't want to be with you regardless of what you might say. Think about it.....15 days and she's already dating someone? That's a bit hasty. Granted, it could just be a diversion for her so she doesn't have to think about what she's going through, but still.

 

Give her some time. Apply the old faithful, the no contact rule. If she can walk away from you that easily, and then come back and you welcome her with a smile, she'll start taking advantage of that, and your "friendship."

 

Now are you two actually married/separated/divorced? What's the status of the relationship right now? You took a good step in confessing your insecurities to her. Now let her think about it and stew a bit. Also-did she give you a reason as to why there was no possibility of getting back together again? It seems rather hasty to immediately declare, 15 days after a breakup, that no reconciliation is possible.

 

Mar

[strong1]

Ok. I'm going to be totally frank here. Don't take offense.

 

Speaking as a woman...not getting the love/support/commitment you need from a guy..is CRUSHING. When you can't commit to a woman..she spends her days trying to remain chipper/supportive and upbeat to 'earn' your love. It's day after day of leaping through little hoops like a dog in a circus..thinking 'if I do this..then he'll love me and want to be with me'...'maybe if I do this...he'll say he loves me or commit.' It is exhausting, and we can only do it so long before we completely lose track of the confident women we used to be and just snap. At that point, we generally can't stand to be near you anymore. It may seem sudden to you..but for us..it's often a slow boil over a long period of time. I have been in your ex's shoes. I'm in there now..and when my ex couldn't commit to me..and then he decided he needed 'space' on top of that..well..it took me awhile..but I do not want him w/in a 100 mile radius of me!!! Do I want to date other people. YES! Is 15 days too soon? Absolutely not. Even 'How to Get Your Ex Back' suggests three dates in the first month out of the shoot for the 'dumpee.' Under the circumstances, why should she not get back into the scene too? No doubt her self esteem has been ripped away..and she's looking for nice compliments and niceties she doesn't need to 'earn' from a guy.

 

'Only' 15 days since you broke up? Oh my goodness. Think of it in terms of the hours/days/weeks/months/years she spent trying to get you to listen to what she needed. Eventually a woman just goes into total emotional/mental shutdown when she thinks her feelings count from nothing as far as you are concerned..and then she starts thinking/living for herself and herself only---and more power to her. That's where 'hell hath no fury like a woman scorned' comes from. She's got to work through her own needs..and get herself happy again before she will ever consider any sort of relationship with you. I don't mean to make you feel bad...but I applaud her selfishness right now. She deserves every second of it. Because, if you did get her back..do you think it would last? You've got more work to do cowboy..and so does she.

 

Take it slow and easy..or you'll just tick her off even more. Be her friend only..nothing more. And a humble friend at that. Any pressure from you at this point will seem like yet another hard slap in the face. Hard as it is to imagine..attempts at reconciliation now are totally offensive to her at this point. You are saying you you have changed and want another chance. She is HEARING you say 'I screwed up and I'm panic stricken now. I would say anything to get you back...and you should take me back..without making me prove myself.'

 

YOU HAVE GOT TO PROVE YOURSELF. It's not an impossible task by any means. But it takes TIME.

 

Again, look at it from her point of view..she reached out to you REPEATEDLY for YEARS...and she didn't feel you took notice until she left. NOW you're saying you've changed? Would you believe you? : )

 

Other misc. tips....when she 'whined' before that she was working too hard. She did not want you to say 'quit your job or committee work.' We hate when guys say that....just like you hate it when we make 'helpful' little suggestions or talk about what you consider innane things. What a woman desperately wants to hear when she is complaining about working too hard is 'Oh my gosh. I know. You have been working so hard. I don't know how you balance all that/do it all. Is there anything I can do to help you?' Then stop talking..and listen. Be supportive. NO SUGGESTIONS. Especially not suggestions that involve us getting a different job, friends, hobbies, etc. which you feel will 'lighten our load.'

 

There...now that's a lot of info for one night. You haven't lost your chance...just back up and get back to 'go.' No 'get out of jail free' cards for you mister. But you can do this.

[SincerlyHurt]

That was a very good post from Strong1, and the first one at that. Quite a mouthful, but useful. Stay around.

[Mar]

Er.......calm down, strong1-a lot of what you posted is subjective. He didn't say a single thing about her "anguish" or her "whining" or the problems they were even having.....if you respond to a post, please respond to what's written, not what you think might have happened, thereforeeee making the poster out in a bad light. If you'd like to post your own issues with your marriage, we're more than happy to listen. But please answer the post without speculating on what may have happened to make her go/his possible faults, okay? Thank you.

 

Mar

[strong1]

Mar, I took the liberty of reviewing ALL of Lostinvan's previous postings as opposed to having responded to just his last post. I was not being subjective at all or simply bringing up my own 'issues with (my) marriage' as you stated. He has, in fact, mentioned his ex's work situation previously. His other posts are essential in understanding his complete situation.

 

As he stated previously: "(she was so involved in a professional society that she was losing sleep, losing her own clients, not having a life, and my "whines" were almost begging her to scale it back so she could get sleep, could have a life)."

 

This is all about helping Lostinvan. Rest assured I am not scolding him. I'm giving him the female viewpoint.

 

Can you also post your gender please? As moderator (or with any board participant) it's useful to see whether the comments are coming from a male or female. It does matter if you are looking for a viewpoint of the opposite sex.

 

Please don't 'speculate' that I'm married either. We single people have relationship challenges as well.

 

Thanks!

[Hopingpraying]

Strong1,

 

I really liked what you had to say.. I do believe ever word you are saying. And I think you describe what my wife went/is going through to a "T". But we men are thick headed and don't understand what you women are saying right away. By the time I got it, I was already too late.

 

I think I now understand how she went from loving me to hating me. Although I don't think the problems she told me about qualify for a divorce in most womans books, it doesn't really matter does it. I believe she needs to go out and experience other men before she can understand what I have provided her. Right now she sees me as the worst man in the world.

 

But again I thank you. Its tough to read that stuff, but sometimes we don't like to hear the truth..

 

No disrespect Mar, but she speaks the truth..

[LostinVan]

Wow Strong1, that was quite the kick in the butt, and yes, I needed it.

 

I am following the DivorceBusting method right now (a lot of it makes sense to me, and it's helping me see things from her perspective - hence the reason for my two confessions). But I did lay it on way too thick, and you're right.

 

I am fearful of playing games with her (one reason why I don't want to do no-contact at this time). Trust was a major problem in our relationship - not trust in that, I thought she'd fool around, but trust in that, I didn't believe her promises. I took the (perhaps misguided) step of being completely honest with her today, because I want to show her I trust any and all decisions she makes, but I also wanted to show her the respect of not hiding my feelings or intentions.

 

a) I really, really do not want the old relationship. There were shining moments, but the angst, miscommunication, and hurt feelings are too deep at times (esp. for her).

 

b) I love this woman with all my heart. I've known for a long time this is the person I wanted to spend the rest of my life with (I didn't tell her this though)

 

c) I want a possible new relationship (hence divorcing the old one) where we discover each other again, have great communication, and fall in love again.

 

Again Strong1, you offer amazing words of wisdom. Thank you for the kick in the butt. I needed it. So did she (ie, my butt kicking

 

LostinVan

[strong1]

I don't think either of you should be fretting too much if your ex girlfriends/wives are dating other ppl right now. Speaking only from my own experience, after my ex boyfriend 'needed space' for the third time in 18 months...I just wanted to get away from him..and get my self esteem back. You can be a really, really strong and independent woman, but if the man you love does not appear to love you back at the same level..you tend to keep giving and giving until you have nothing left. Then you need to break away..hang out with your girlfriends..and, yes, maybe date a few guys who give us unconditional attention without us having to work at it at all. I'm sure it sounds silly, but it's nice to get compliments on one's smile, eyes, etc. when the person you loved didn't seem to even notice you existed anymore.

 

GOOD NEWS COMING...keep reading...I'm guessing the odds are pretty strong that your gals are in a transitional stage and that the dates don't mean as much as you might think. I think we need a bit longer for our hearts to heal before we're ready for another relationship...this is just a time, as they say, to get her 'loving cup' filled up (i.e..getting that unconditional love/compliments/pursuing by a guy that she probably desires.)

 

As I said before...work on yourself..and be her buddy. While she may enjoy being pursued by other guys..she probably doesn't want to be pursued by you in that way just now. I, personally, am SOOO angry at my ex...but I wouldn't mind if he would call me to ask if, for instance, he could help out by watching my cat while I'm on vacation, etc. Little chivalrous stuff.

 

LOSTINVAN..what made it difficult to commit to your girlfriend? I've heard statements from my ex list he 'wants to make more money to 'support me.' (I have my own job and home tho..so I don't get that.) Did you like your independence too much? I think you mentioned you didn't tell her that you loved her..or at least that it was hard. Is that correct? I may not be recalling your exact statement. Is it too frightening to be close to her in some way? If so, why? What were your reservations in not marrying her?

 

Those are things to examine. As those things must change (for real..not just because you are scared of losing her) or when (yes when) she returns...you'll have the same problems again.

[LostinVan]

LOSTINVAN..what made it difficult to commit to your girlfriend? I've heard statements from my ex list he 'wants to make more money to 'support me.' (I have my own job and home tho..so I don't get that.) Did you like your independence too much? I think you mentioned you didn't tell her that you loved her..or at least that it was hard. Is that correct? I may not be recalling your exact statement. Is it too frightening to be close to her in some way? If so, why? What were your reservations in not marrying her?

 

Whew. Tough one. Tough one to answer publicly, but here goes.

 

For the first four or five years of our relationship, I just wasn't the marrying kind. I didn't believe in the piece of paper. I believed in one's bond, one's word. I don't say "I love you" lightly. I've said it three times to someone outside my family in my entire life. That was my bond.

 

For the next couple of years, I went through a situation where my Mom and Dad separated, and my Mom kept drinking (she had alcohol problems). This, I admit, soured me on marriage. But in our eighth year together, I gave her an engagement ring on xmas day.

 

By year nine, we were loosely planning a wedding, but then my brother announced his marriage plans, then her sister the following spring. I think secretly, I was okay with this (ie, the delay in our marriage) because secretly, I wasn't happy with the relationship as it was, and didn't want to get married or have kids until "things got better".

 

Things obviously didn't get better. I was such a fool - I'd recognize problems, and toss a solution at it. The solution wouldn't work, so what did I do? The next time the problem arose, I'd toss the SAME solution at it, or a very slight variant. What an idiot...

 

Today, I have this enormous sense of guilt. She's 36 with no kids and no relationship. She dearly loves kids. She wanted a whole gaggle of them. I feel I've robbed her of something precious. And yes, I want kids (well, at least one kid) now. I feel even more guilty because I know I could go another five years and still be capable... for her, it's more risky.

 

She even said to me, when she mentioned she was casual dating others, that "well, I'm not getting younger, and I want kids". Inside, I died for a time.

 

LostinVan

[LostinVan]

Strong1, I also have a question for you.

 

I truly believe in my head and heart that I want to be friends with her first, "back with her" a distant second. One of my biggest faults in our relationship is that she was truly and dearly my best friend, and I took it for granted, and didn't reciprocate in the last few years.

 

Could you give me some advise, from a female perspective, on how and what I could do to just show her not only is her friendship important to me, but that we are becoming friends again.

 

LostinVan

[strong1]

If she was your friend for many years and you feel you took it for granted. Then I suggest that you be HER friend..nothing more..and give her that friendship unconditionally.

 

I whipped out my 'Mars and Venus' book..and it says (you'd think I'd know this as a woman..but I didn't want to miss any) that women want: (I'll also add some examples as to how you can provide her w/these things w/out being too pushy.)

 

* CARING (if something in her apt/house breaks..does she need help fixing it?) Offer to fix it..if she says 'yes', schedule a time convenient for her..and then go, do it..and leave. Don't 'linger' to try to talk to her. Don't wander around looking for signs of other men. She'll sense you're doing it as an 'in' if you do any of those things. A 'friend' would fix it for her and leave. You know when one thing goes wrong...bad things seem to rain down all at once. So I've no doubt she needs help w/a broken down car, moving boxes, watching a pet, etc. You have pets correct? Can you bring them over to HER place for a visit..drop them off..and pick them up so she can visit them without feeling like you are 'hovering.' You aren't, of course...but she's probably touchy about that now. You could say 'I have an errand to do on Saturday, would you like me to drop the dogs off for a few hours? I can call when I'm done and pick them up on my way home.'

 

* UNDERSTANDING (if she doesn't want to talk to you...say 'that's fine. I understand.' Then make yourself scarce..pronto!)

 

* RESPECT (She wants time alone...give it to her. She wants to vent..you'll have to listen w/out defending yourself.) She wants privacy..don't ask her about her dating life. If she, and this is a tough one, brings up anything she's done on dates that's fun...gone to a movie...to a restaurant? Try to remain calm. Just ask about the movie...what she ordered maybe...or would she recommend it to a friend? That way, she won't think you are prying.

 

* DEVOTION (this is tough since commitment was a bit of a challenge before...and she won't believe sudden changes. I'd hold on this one until you are on firmer ground.) Maybe just not let her see or think that you are dating anyone else right now.

 

* VALIDATION (again, if she's venting..let her rip!

 

* REASSURANCE (If she cries, you say 'I'm sorry, I understand. I see why you feel/felt that way.') She wants to know you are LISTENING and at least trying to understand. If you don't understand..you can carefully ask for clarification on some points..as long as she does not become defensive or it makes it seem like her point is not valid.)

 

Men want: (not being a guy..I'm not sure what you are looking for here..but feel free to elaborate.)

* Trust

* Acceptance

* Appreciation

* Admiration

* Approval

* Encouragement

 

Since my ex 'needed space' back on Jan. 29...I've spent a lot of time crying on the shoulder of my good male friend whom I will call George. (I used to date George three years ago...but he too 'needed space'..and I took off/never looked back on that one.) But now he's my FRIEND. He learned my trust back (a bit of it anyway) he listens/he validates/he 'understands my pain.' Does he want me back? Yes, he says he does actually. But I know I am not in any frame of mind to SERIOUSLY see anyone else. And I've been up front with George on that as I do not play games. I am telling you this to illustrate the fact that I was formerly upset with him...and he 'came to my rescue' in my difficult time. If I still had romantic feelings for him (I don't) he would have slowly been winning me back all this time. See how it works? I really value my good friendships. It's a wonderful way to get closer to your ex w/out any male/female 'relationship' pressure.

[Mar]

My apologies strong1, you're right-I didn't read all the previous posts, I thought this was the first. And as well for assuming you were married. I stand corrected! I was basing my post on what I saw he'd written and your response, and thought you were coming out of left field with guns blazing! And I'm female, by the way.

 

Mar

[LostinVan]

Today's update...

 

I'm still nearly destroyed by the ex admitting yesterday she is dating so soon after our breakup. It was a tough night. I hear everything everyone is saying (including her brothers), ie, it's just casual, she wants to feel good, etc. It's not even a jealousy thing... it's a hurt.

 

But I tried my best to mask it. After the huge stuff I told her yesterday I decided to play it cool today if I saw her. I went out, and she came by today with a mutual friend who needs to stay the night here (we have two guest bedrooms, mutual friend was flooded out of her apt today).

 

We didn't talk much at all. She heard me come in the house (I was out when she got here), so she came down from her office and asked how I was. I said fine, smiled, and said "I have some mail for you", and I gave it to her. I also ordered a couple of replacement styli for her PDA some time ago, and picked them up today at my mailbox, so I gave her that. She was thankful (I ordered it before the breakup. I buy her gifts all the time, tiny signs of affection but also because I want to, but I haven't bought her anything since the break).

 

She went off to do her thing for a while, then came down again and very brief chit chat, then asked me to "give her five"... she's never done that before.

 

Then alone time again, then she came to leave... she looked like she wanted to talk to me, but then our mutual friend showed up and I said by pretext "hey, come down to the patio table, check this out" to get her away frm mutual friend. Ex came down, and I said "is there something you wanted to talk about?" She said no, then said "I won't be seeing you for a few days... can you manage in the house with the dogs and such?"

 

I said yes, and said take care. She went to leave, chatted with mutual friend a bit more at the gate to the back yard, said goodbye to me again, I smiled and said goodbye again. She said "here, give me a hug", came to me, hugged (I didn't hug very much, I was feeling like shite and a phony for trying to smile and be jolly). She said "when I come back in a few days, would you like to go for a walk with the dog and me?"

 

This is potentially significant - she's kind of dissassociated herself from the dogs - she doesn't have the same care and affection for them as I do, (never did, though she had some), and since the break she's been distinctly cold to the dogs. Also, I did hint to her yesterday in our long talks that "it would be cool if you walked __________ (our newest, and young dog)... she misses you a lot". So it's possibly guilt that is making her suggest this; she did however ask me to go on the walk with her.

 

I'm wary of reading too much into this. She's constantly giving mixed signals and it's driving me nuts. She left my Dad (who she talks to still) with the impression we may get back together. She tells me the exact opposite.

 

LostinVan, really lost and confused and hurt.

[LostinVan]

I still need help with my previous post, but there's a new development I really need help understanding this, and more importantly, how to deal with it.

 

I found out today from my ex's brother that my ex was on a popular dating board at least two weeks (possibly longer) prior to our breakup.

 

I've found her profile. She does mention in it that she has a fiance (me), and that she's just looking for males to be friends with. But I also know (from her bro) that she's started dating guys from the board.

 

Question is, how do I use this info if I talk to her. I'm completely crushed at this point.

 

LostinVan.

[strong1]

Ok. As we recall, I'm in your ex GFs position..and you acted similarly to what my ex did...so let me tell you how I'd feel in her shoes. Again, these are just speculations based on how I'd feel in her shoes. And her dating..just so you can start breathing again, is NOT AT ALL as bad a sign as you think it is. In fact..it's good. Read on....

 

DO NOT ASK HER ANYTHING about her dates. Trust me. It'll send her running so far the other way you could blow it completely.

 

It was not right IF she in fact (you don't know for sure..her brother told you this tidbit of news..but HE doesn't know for certain on timing, etc) dating or perusing the internet before you two broke up. BUT, look at it from her point of view. She probably thought..'I've tried and tried to tell him how I feel. He doesn't tell me he loves me..so I bet that means he doesn't love me. I've sacrificed 11 years of my life..and possibly children and I love him SO MUCH...but he doesn't love me...' (sorry..I don't mean to make this hard on you..I'm just giving you one option as to how she felt. You did love her of course..but we women don't always believe it unless we hear it. Same thing goes for hearing we're pretty, etc.) Anyway...her relatives and friends are all getting married around her. Meanwhile..you two are engaged and ... nothing. She's getting frustrated..she's getting sad..she's getting angry..and worst of all..she's embarrassed when her friends repeatedly say..."HOW long have you been engaged? He must not love you if he's stalling like that.' There goes her self esteem. It's a delicate area for chicks. And once it's gone...we turn into people you don't even recognize. Angry, spiteful, etc. We try and try and try..and then when we're emotionally empty..WHAM. We don't have a single second for the person we formerly loved.

 

I think her posting that she has a fiance online (which she didn't have to do mind you...she could have lied) is a CLEAR indication that she's dating guys to get what she wasn't getting from you...ego strokes. Not sex..just a good ol' boost to her self esteem. Get it? It's not as serious as you think AT ALL. So put it out of your mind as best you can. And whatever you do..do NOT ask her about it. She's trying to get herself back. And if you bring it up..she may think you're trying to shame her or..which will could make her only more ticked off as she could think 'Geeez. I'm only trying to get my self esteem back and now he's trying to control me there too?' Once a woman has kind of 'snapped' and run away..any sign that you are still trying to control her is taken very, very badly.

 

It's hard not to think about her out with other men. But think of it this way...she's going to compare every man she sees out there to you right now. I'm sure she's not ready to start a real relationship with any of them. So, you've got to get yourself back to the old confident, fit, loving his work, taking good care of the dogs, responsible, caring guy she fell in love with. And you have to start right now. Cuz she's 'comparing' as we speak.

 

One small thing about the dogs. Please be a bit careful about any sort of guilt (tho you don't intend to make her guilty I know.) But wording like 'the dogs miss you' could make her feel guilty. And at this point...she may feel like 'I gave and gave and gave for 11 years...I don't owe ANYONE, ANYTHING.' See what I mean. Even if you change the wording just a little to '(dog's name' loves her walks..I bet she'd love to go with you sometime') it relieves your GF of any pressure and just lets her know that she's loved by the animals. And she likes that 'no pressure/unconditional love/caring right now!

 

Start looking for the good in all her statements and actions rather than the bad. I think you're making great progress.

 

Oh, and woman tend to notice little things. Get a new haircut, some new shirts, shoes..paint a room in the house..do some spring cleaning. ANYTHING she will notice. A new haircut is the best bet. A) you'll feel better B) You're working on yourself C) She'll think..'wow, what's this all about...he's physically changing..is that for me..or is he making himself look better for other women? Try it and let me know how it works.

[strong1]

Sorry, one more thing. And I've learned this the hard way. Never, ever, ever ask your partner a question unless you are emotionally prepared to hear the truth. Sometimes it's best not to know if they've dated others, want to move out/move on, etc. unless you can hear the honest truth, or face their anger and still keep your head on straight without breaking down in front of them.

 

Also, they may not even speak the truth, but rather speak out of anger (as they feel 'cornered', etc.) and then you'll have to deal with their answer, their emotions and your emotions.

[GeeCee]

Lostinvan

 

Have been following your thread - have not really got anything to add - other than good luck - Strong1 seems to have covered all eventualities. She gives fantastic advice.

 

Good Luck.

 

G xx

[LostinVan]

Thanks Gee Cee and thanks Strong1 (again!) for the valued words of advice.

 

Strong1, the PM is coming. Yesterday was mainly a day of reflection for me.

 

Here's the latest update... and again, I need help interpreting things.

 

Friday night was a bad night for me - thoughts about her prowling the singles websites, about how predatory the guys are there, how guys in general will say *anything* to get in a woman's pants (esp. on a singles dating board), etc etc was driving me nuts. But around 1am, I started practicing my mantra these days - put yourself in her shoes. I realised what Strong1 said - she's looking for an esteem boost, and I accept that.

 

Saturday, I was surprisingly upbeat for most of the day. It's weird - I just bounced back without knowing why (but it's NOT because the ex is getting an esteem boost, more on that below). I spent half the day cleaning the entire back yard and porch, which felt GOOD (it needed it). I even taught our new dog how to play soccer! (no kidding - I taught her how to be a goalie - and she got good at it!)

 

Saturday afternoon though, for the first time since the break, I felt sad for the ex. Really sad and not sure how to approach it. I realised by the afternoon I was happy today, and much of that happiness came from looking inside myself and making personal promises to myself about how I'd be in a future relationship, be it with my ex or with someone else. The happiness came from within. And I was sad for my ex because, as I've said earlier, her happiness is extremely important to me, but the happiness she is feeling now is superficial. She's finding happinesss in having guys persue her. She's relying on the actions of others to make her happy, something that was a downfall in our own relationship. I felt that my ex will never find true happiness in her life, and I got incredibly sad.

 

So today. She came over (she's still here, but now on her computer, doing well, you can guess), and she sat down with me on the back porch on her own accord. We had a good beginning talk, lots of laughs and such, but as I listened to her, she kept *complaining* and being aggravated by the same things she was always upset about (not involving me and our relationship, ironically enough, but her intereactions with others, and how's she's annoyed about this, annoyed about that, etc etc). And she's run down, she's doing a some sighing, maintaining little eye contact.

 

Now... before you think "hrmm, she's regretting the break" - she isn't, at least not consciously. She still has lots of resentment for me and the relationship (I think more the relationship than me). She started complaining about what her life was like in this house. She then told me she held a lot of resentment for the dogs (shocker for me, though I know the dogs made her work hard, ie, dealing with two old infirm dogs in the morning, dealing with a very energetic border collie pup cum adolescent). She started getting teary eyed a bit, and I said "I want you to know, Friday evening was a bad night for me.... I put myself in your shoes that night, saw how your typical day went, and I had a real clear understanding of what things were like from your side. I want to tell you that I empathise, truly empathise with what you went through, and I admire your courage and strength of character to go through it so many years..."

 

This... uh, didn't work well. She started welling up more. So I shut up and let her talk for a bit, but she wasn't talking much. We mentioned some happier things (I told her I taught our dog to play soccer, then demostrated and she was smiling)... then we chatted some more, and I did something I probably shouldn't have done (you tell me):

 

I said "Friday and yesterday, for the first time since our break up, I've started to worry about you. I'm worried, sitting her and listening to you, that your aren't finding real happiness with yourself. I'm worried that so far, it comes from external sources. That's *okay* because it's cool to have people saying nice things to you, but I am geniunely worried now that one of my two goals - that you are happy in life, may not come true. I'd like to help any way I can. I can give you some tools that have been really helping me...."

 

Then I shut up again, because her body language wasn't receiving this well.

 

Kind of clammed up, she said "I hope you don't mind, I have some work to do on the computer". I said "not a worry, go for it!" (with a smile, though inside I was like - yeah, more internet dating), gave her a hug (she usually gives me the hugs), and that was that.

 

So... I'm guessing I screwed up again today, right?

 

LostinVan

[GeeCee]

No no no. You didn't screw up. Gee, we are so hard on ourselves. We get ourselves in situations where we can't do right for doing wrong.

 

You did a very caring thing. You listened. Really listened. And you demonstrated to her that you have listened to what she has said in the past. You empathised. She is hurting too. Maybe she does not expect this kind of listening from you. Remember, men find this kind of listeining difficult. They have an innate need to offer solutions, make suggestions. Maybe she is mistrustful of this side of you.

 

You have got to give her time. And be really patient. Remember you have found out a lot about yourself and what went wrong in your relationship in a relatively short time. She has not reached that point yet. She needs to get there of her own accord.

 

You did a good thing, Lostinvan. You showed that you care, and that you are there for her. Now, I guess you have to keep showing that. Patiently.

 

It hurts a whole lot to see someone you love in pain, and not offer them solutions. But this you have to do.

 

You are doing a really good job, especially on yourself.

 

G xx

[LostinVan]

Aw cripes.

 

Here I am being positive to KathyK, and I'm having my own personal depression time again.

 

I found out this evening that the whole "internet dating thing" goes back longer than I thought. The particular board she's on has three segments - dating, relationship, and intimate.

 

I didn't notice it before, but the ex has a long (and at least 3 months old) section in the intimate part. In it, she again states she's in a questionable relationship, and is looking for some serious sex and flirting talk.

 

To make this clear how devestating this is to me.

 

a) I am *not* a person to consider cheating on a partner. EVER. Never in my life have I done it. Rarely have I even considered it, and the few times I did, I was disgusted with the thought (not myself, the thought).

 

b) In my entire life, I've been cheated on once (that I know of). It was a two year relationship in my late teens.

 

c) I tend to gravitate (so I thought) towards partners who have the same monogamous views as I do.

 

d) I had trust issues with my ex during the relationship, but NEVER about infidelity. In fact, I couldn't imagine her ever doing it; that was the thought I had in her when I met her; a year in, two years in, even the day she broke up with me.

 

e) to me, sex talk via IM, email and the phone (all three things she indicates in her profile that she would progress with) is cheating. I am having a hard time getting past this. I thought I was yesterday and today, and now I'm backsliding big time.

 

LostinVan

[bamster]

Hey man cheer up! At least she probably hasn't had "actual" sex with someone else. My ex is already with someone since we broke up 1,5 months ago and I still don't know the truth about when exactly she met this guy... But I've come to terms with it and I think to myself: If this has happened then we are probably not meant to be together so get over it and move on.

The good thing is that at some point sooner or later we will meet someone special again and they will make us completely forget of all the miserable times spent thinking about the ex. This hasn't happened to me yet but I'm pretty damn sure that if she can do it so easily then so can I. It will happen, it's just a matter of when! So chin up and don't get miserable about it like I did for the past 6 weeks. You don't gain anything by being miserable! If it is meant to be it will and she will let you know if she has changed her mind. Meanwhile look after yourself for a change and never feel sorry for them.

[LostinVan]

Bamster, I appreciate your comments; except I am still committed to trying to make a lasting relationship (and a new one) with my ex. My goals are to work on myself, but also make the possibility of a new and lifelong relationship a reality with her and I.

 

LostinVan

[LostinVan]

Hi Folks. Please bear with me (and please, if you can, address the previous posts from today as well as this one - I'm hesitant to start a new thread).

 

I've been mulling what to do about this almost 4 months of internet dating, chat and sex service the ex has been having (3 months while in the relationship, plus about three weeks since breaking up). There's a bottom line here for me... her self-esteem is getting a boost, mine's taking a massive hit.

 

I'm thinking of doing the following in one of our next chats. I should point out again that we are talking most days face to face, on friendly (and friendship building terms), with some signs of affection, ie, hugs, occasionally holding hands (she loves holding hands), the rare kiss on the cheek. Some of the affection comes from her supporting me during my down times about my Mom's recent death. Some come from us chatting as friends.

 

My intended scenario / talk will not directly mention the internet dating crap. Instead, I'm hoping to say this:

 

"I told you a week or two ago that when you fall in love with someone, you give away a part of your soul to that person, never to be given back. But that's okay, because for what was taken out of your soul, the person you fall in love with also gives you part of her soul, and that part slots into my being, never to be given away again.

 

I know you've been making a variety of efforts to boost your self-esteem, some of them going on for months. I want to tell you that I applaud and support your desire and want to boost your self-esteem. I wish you would let me in to be part of this process, but I understand it may be too difficult at this time for you to accept or even have trust in me being part of that process.

 

But I also need you to know something. Some of your efforts at boosting your self esteem have a direct effect on my own. It's hurting my own self-esteem greatly. It's taking it away from me, piece by piece. You've been telling me for a couple of weeks now that you aren't doing various things because you don't want to hurt me any more than you believe you already have (sidenote - she says this a fair amount when it comes to us having more intense talks or even her coming back to the house and using a guest bedroom, which would make her life a lot easier, vis a vis her work). I have to tell you though, that a couple of the ways you've chosen to boost your self esteem are hurting me greatly, and continue to do so daily. It takes a lot out of me, and makes it hard for me to be positive about the way I want to become."

 

 

And leave it at that (or wait for her response)

 

So my question, especially for the women on the board like Strong1, Gee Cee, KathyK, others, how is this approach? I've been reading in the DB and DR books that in many cases, you need to confront infidelity. Not with accusations, but with some positive spin while still letting the ex know that you are hurt by it, and need some sort of resolution or explanation (except in the last resort).

 

Is there another way you think I should approach this? Is it all wrong? Put yourself in her shoes for a moment - your ex is in a lot of pain (loss of his Mom, you broke up with him, he's trying to make things good for himself, you're still friends with him and want to be friends)... how do you react when you know you're also doing something wrong (she has this on her bio: I'm here to take a look around, as it is so foreign and intriguing to me. This is a pretty happening exciting place, and I'm such a BAD girl for being here even. and also this at the top about me: No, he doesn't know, and would be upset.

 

There IS one tiny bit of good news, if you can call it that. She has her profiles set to either be only visible when she's online, or turned off (not visible in searches, but findable if you know her username... The profiles are limited access at least now, but that could be because she probably knows *i* know she's on this specific board (people talk).

 

This rollercoaster ride sucks. I want off.

 

LostinVan

[kathyk]

i wish i knew all the answers. i am at the point you are. i just saw my ex and i am devistated.i hurt so bad to want him to hug me and tell all is ok. but i know it isn't. you gave my inspiration and now i have lost mine listening to you. i have prayed to God that he help me and i will continue to pray. can your heart really hurt? does it really know pain? cause mine does.