What Happened To Love in America?

[JadedStar]

People have to start loving themselves to love one another. commitment is hard work .Who has the kahunas to step up is the question? You cannto give or create what you dont have inside. You must sort most of your issues out before you get married or be committed enough to go through the long haul no matter how painful.If you come out after it you will love each other even more!!True love is unselfish..not jealous..it is unconditional and not something we give up when the next skirt walks through the door.

 

It is being assumed that a person might fall out of love, or leave the person, to chase a skirt...(or a guy). That is not always the case.

 

Love CAN turn from romantic to altruistic. But it is still love if it is altruistic, just not the kind that makes you want to sleep with that person.

[top bloke]

..

Sometimes when someone finds themselves chasing that "next skirt" (or pants) they then realize that it's NOT true love with their current partner or they wouldn't be doing that. Maybe it took another woman for my ex to realize that so that is a good thing - If he never met her, it probably would have still ended eventually because it obviously was not a strong love or he wouldn't have felt himself drawn to someone else and ACTED on that. Does this make sense? Should he have stayed with me even though SHE was the one he wanted? Would that have been fair to either of us?

If he wanted her then you are right. But if honoured his commitment to you then it could have saved your relationship. It could have gotten better if the fundamental element was observed and he denied the other person before it got bad. Temptation is what drew him away..and he as your partner did not put the values required to reject it. This is what i am trying to illustrate. He was weak..drawn away from the good faithful woman he had. This is where strength comes from in relationships.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure he crossed the line and he let it die..

[CharlesF]

dasilver,

 

Maybe the examples you cite are just ones where people really aren't meant for each other. Should they stay in the relationship anyway?

[JadedStar]

If he wanted her then you are right. But if honoured his commitment to you then it could have saved your relationship. It could have gotten better if the fundamental element was observed and he denied the other person before it got bad. Temptation is what drew him away..and he as your partner did not put the values required to reject it. This is what i am trying to illustrate. He was weak..drawn away from the good faithful woman he had. This is where strength comes from in relationships.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure he crossed the line and he let it die..

 

 

There are many reasons why a couple might no longer be good for one another, and i can ASSURE you temptation is not always the root cause. To suggest it is, is not fair or accurate.

 

I really don't like it when people assume that every break up is over skirt chasing or temptation . Some people are intelligent enough to know that compatibility is not present, and they are too smart to keep putting a round peg into a square hole.

 

I find it more a sign of intelligence to move towards situations that are positive for you in life, and i find it stagnating to stay in a situation that you know is going nowhere and use the excuse of "well i told her/him it was forever, i can't go now". That is stagnating.

 

If i was still with my ex husband i strongly believe netiher of our lives would be as rich as it is now because we were literally stagnating each other. I am not sure what drives some people to stay in bad situations at all costs, I just know I am glad I am not one of those people.

 

You, for instance, are with a woman who scrutinizes your life to a great deal based on posts I have read. You get frustrated, yet then you say 'but i love her'. That is very much your right to decide that and very commendable. But it is not your right to say that another bloke might think 'i just can't take this anymore - my wife's insulting manner of putting a microscope up my rear is NOT how i wish to live my life, and if after many attempts made by him to get her to understand there is a problem, he is NOT a bad man, a skirt chaser, or a cheater, to call this one quits". If you want to do it, that is your right. But it isn't fair to expect everyone in the world will live a life where they can't not even be allowed a facebook account. I can tell you that i would not tolerate such restrictions when I know I am innocent.

I would make EVERY effort, reasonable and beyond, to correct this and have my partner work with me but if it is clear he thinks there are no problems and won't work it out, I can't say I will stay around forever.

[JadedStar]

dasilver,

 

Maybe the examples you cite are just ones where people really aren't meant for each other. Should they stay in the relationship anyway?

 

Exactly my point as well. Some people are suggesting that you stay no matter what because you once made a declaration that you would do so. When that declaration was made, the person at hand may not have had enough facts to even MAKE that declaration and why should they be expected to never change their mind?

 

Stagnation@!

 

By that same token i am NOT someone who believes you just run from troubles. OF course every relationship - particularly if a marriage since that is a strong commitment - you do all due diligence to try to work it out...including counseling and seeking out self help to try to make sure you have done all you can. But if all you can turns up nil, no one should be made to feel they can never leave a person who is just not good for them for whatever reason. It is none of our business what another person feels in their heart.

[jennamajig]

One thing I realized after my break-up was I was making excuses for my ex's behavior. If I visited my family and he didn't come, I'd explain to my family why he wasn't there (which was often...the fight that led to our break-up was over him not being able to take a weekend to visit my family when I'd gone to his brother's wedding and spent many weekends with his folks). There were other times I'd make excuses as well, sometimes to myself. I wonder that if in true love, you don't need excuses. Yes, you are your own person, but you learn to compromise so well that you have a respect for your partner that transcends everything else. You have respect for you *and* you have the need to sometimes put your partner's needs above yours. At least, I think that is what happens in very successful relationships. I'm 26, still recovering my self-esteem from the heartbreak I've experienced from my first love (yes, I do everything later in life it seems), and still trying to learn about love and how to trust again.

 

Part of love I think is trust. The willingness to really open up to your partner, trust that they will really listen and not judge. A lot of issues, I think, can be resolved if two parties are willing to talk. And I mean really talk - be unafraid of expressing fears, doubts, issues.

 

Of course, I do think it is a little cynical to think love can't be forever, even when I find myself feeling that way sometimes. I do want to find a love that is forever (beyond the one for myself - that one can always be forever); my grandparents have been together for over 50 years. Yes, they are of a different generation, but my grandfather still has so much love in his eyes when he looks at my grandmother. It's truly beautiful and it gives me faith that is it possible.

[justletgo07]

I came accross an article that I think points to many reasons why relationships so often fail. While the article speaks specifically of American culture, I think the same can be said of places all over the world. Many people have a very unhealthy outlook about relationships and love...too unrealistic and overly romantic. Check it out:

 

link removed

[penelope13]

Thanks for the article!

[cruzer]

I really don't like it when people assume that every break up is over skirt chasing or temptation . Some people are intelligent enough to know that compatibility is not present, and they are too smart to keep putting a round peg into a square hole.

 

I believe an intelligent person would know if they are compatible with said person before they fall in love. If they fall in love before they really know the person and know if theyre compatible their not all that intelligent.

 

If your not happy with your relationship by all means end it, its just so hard to believe someone can say i love you and give up so easily. Those hold couples that have been together 50+ years, does not mean they were a match made in heaven, they just never gave up on each other. You cant say they did not have billions more fights than the average 2 year relationship...

[top bloke]

Firstly. I have read many of your posts and you are very intelligent.

I used temptation as one example . Not the rule..

We are the gatekeepers of our souls. No one should give up in a comitted relationship because it doesnt feel as good and give up because someone else makes us feel better in that time. It is each partners responsibilty to communicate their feelings instead of giving themselves to someone else or simply believe that the problem is beyond help. It is only beyond help when they believe it is. If they want they should discuss these feelings to make an even stronger bond. These are the bonds that make 50 year anniversaries.

 

Edit i just noticed you tried making it personal...no need for that. I married my wife for better or worse and have the most intense love you have no idea. If you would choose facebook over your marriage then it says alot to me about your selfish self and why people wonder where enduring love has gone.

[top bloke]

If you value your marriage you realise that your partner is like your left arm. Why would you get a sledgehammer to hit it? Look after it..

[JadedStar]

Firstly. I have read many of your posts and you are very intelligent.

I used temptation as one example . Not the rule..

We are the gatekeepers of our souls. No one should give up in a comitted relationship because it doesnt feel as good and give up because someone else makes us feel better in that time. It is each partners responsibilty to communicate their feelings instead of giving themselves to someone else or simply believe that the problem is beyond help. It is only beyond help when they believe it is. If they want they should discuss these feelings to make an even stronger bond. These are the bonds that make 50 year anniversaries.

 

But none of you here have the right to have said that I should have worked on my relationship with my first husband more, because you didn't live it. It really feels belittling to me when people suggest I might have divorced my first husband over something like 'someone else made me feel better". I had no one waiting in the wings. "GASP" a person can move on without having a fall back guy. And if one believes the problem is beyond help, why should they NOT move on? This is all very mindboggling to me.

 

In my situation, we married very young. Who we were then, was not who we became when we were 30. Intellectually we were no longer compatible. If I am not with my intellectual equal, i am not going to be happy. He is a good man, but a good man for a woman more compatible to him. We did not grow or change at the same rate. IT was a very stagnanting experience, and I do get a bit irritated when people say things like "well you should have stayed and worked harder". It was a good experience for him that we moved on as well - so that he could find a person who challenged him in positive ways as well.

 

I worked about as hard as a person can on that one. I was not happy, nor was he, and we had changed to the point we had NOTHING in common anymore. And I am not trying to sound egotistical, but intellectually he provided zero challenge to me anymore. And we stayed married almost 20 years so no one can say we didn't try very hard. But there comes a time when someone has to figure it isn't working. And no one on earth knew us like we did so it is no one else's call to say if we should have not given up.

 

So for the poster above who stated I believe an intelligent person would know if they are compatible with said person before they fall in love. ... must be nice to be so perfect. Many of of these posts it was stated more than once that many people just jump into marriage way too soon ...should they never be allowed to leave it because of poor judgement on the onset? Are they stupid in your eyes because they followed what they thought was their heart but in reality was infatuation? Are you their gauge of intelligence or how long they shoudl stay married? Many people fall in love when they are 19 or 20. Are they supposed to know the people they will become when they are 25 or 30? Your mindset allows zero room for individuality, growth or simply change of heart. These things all happen to most emotionally healthy people at some point in their lives.

 

I think it would be better for each person to worry about their own relationships and HOPE they find a partner who feels the same way they do, vs making these these statements that try to proclaim that two people should never part. I just find that extremely stifling. I hope i am never in a situation where I don't have the sense to know when to say when.

[top bloke]

Firstly .. I apologise for getting personal. There is no reason to be like that...i am sorry.

Yes you are right in that instance there is no reason to flog a horse which doesnt want to move.

I hope you understand that it makes me sad that so many people break up over trivial things.. I am sorry i feel very hormonal today ..even though i am a man...i think i am going through man o pause...lol

 

 

I bow out ..peace to you

[top bloke]

Jaded star..i see your pain. I hope you find someone who loves you with the intensity/commitment i have for my good woman.

[JadedStar]

Jaded star..i see your pain. I hope you find someone who loves you with the intensity/commitment i have for my good woman.

 

I have.... And that drives home my point. If i stayed in relationships that were no longer making me feel challenged or happy, I wouldn't be where I am today in my relationship.

 

And no apologies needed on the above post. You are just voicing your opinion, same as I. Everyone won't always agree. No hard feelings at all. I am long since removed from my first marriage. That was almost a decade ago that it ended. It was a new beginning for he and I, we don't view it as a negative thing.

[JadedStar]

JS, I think maybe the posters were referring to people who didn't work at their relationships and who DID leave for the first person who came along. Clearly, 20 years is a long time - you worked at your relationship and gave it all you could, it sounds like. But not everyone does. I do think many people walk away very easily. You, however, are not one of them.

 

But the problem with that is they are assuming they know the details. Even shortlived relationships might have real merit in why they broke up> We can't walk around assuming that it was always to 'chase a skirt'. Just becuase i worked at mine longer doesn't mean it didn't end the same way, i.e. divorce...and i don't find myself superior for having stayed longer. If we didn't have kids, i honestly doubt we would have stayed together near that long. I am not an advocate of just staying for the kids, but I made a decision that my life for the timeframe my children were growing up was mostly for them. It was a selfless and conscience decision I made because I had an obligation to them. The home was not a violent or tumultuous one, it was just one where the parents were 'friends' and it worked for a long time but at some point we decided it was time to pursue some of our own dreams.

 

I guess my confusion is in why it would worry anyone how long another couple is together. Everyone should work on their own, but not make judgements as to why others didn't work out. If one's IS working out, just be thankful. Eveyrone is not that lucky to find their 'soulmate' or whatever term we want to call it at first or second try. If a couple really isn't happy, it isn't fair if society expects them to stick it out and not get a shot at finding someone they truly can be happy with just because they feel that is the right thing to do.

 

I don't condemn or diss anyone with the opposing view, just giving my reasons on why i disagree. And i do disagree strongly because if not i'd be saying I would hope that people who got together too soon and who didn't udnerstand if they were right for each other or if emotional/physical abuse might be at play would stay together at all costs. Many people are emotionally abused by a partner and to the onlooker everything looked "cool". So we can't really assume we know why people break up even if it is quickly. I assume that they know what is right for themselves.

 

And there is another slant to this. These so called 'skirt chasers' that everyone is angry about for leaving a girl for another lady...think of it like this. His g/f might have NEVER had the courage to leave him and his wandering eyes, but by him leaving her, she is now free to find someone more respectful. It will hurt, but she will heal. We all have to go thru hurts in life. That is part of growing. And not all people have the same moral views as everyone else, so by saying they should stick it out at all costs even the more 'innocent' party in that relationship can suffer. It might be better for her if he DID leave if he keeps getting an 'itch' that he finds himself having to constantly hold back.

[top bloke]

I have.... And that drives home my point. If i stayed in relationships that were no longer making me feel challenged or happy, I wouldn't be where I am today in my relationship.

 

And no apologies needed on the above post. You are just voicing your opinion, same as I. Everyone won't always agree. No hard feelings at all. I am long since removed from my first marriage. That was almost a decade ago that it ended. It was a new beginning for he and I, we don't view it as a negative thing.

Glad to see you have a decent partner. You must agree though that while you have in the past tried your best at your old relationship too many other people give up the ghost far too easily. I dont believe in giving up on the woman i love despite the up and downs..that is all. Skirt was an example not the rule...hope this gives you a clearer perception as to what i am saying.

[top bloke]

..

They give up on the women (or men) they DON'T love (or no longer love), like mine did. And this is for the best, as it's not fair to either person to stay if they don't love them.

correct..without comitment/respect love can die...but dont worry... We all love you.... ..

[top bloke]

The only message i can say is protect your minds from temptation and honour your loved ones as you do yourselves .If you can makes things better then you owe it to yourself to do your best. If it doesnt work out then you have gave 100 percent..

[JadedStar]

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They give up on the women (or men) they DON'T love (or no longer love), like mine did. And this is for the best, as it's not fair to either person to stay if they don't love them.

 

Exactly...and that is the point i was trying to make. Many failed relationships are likely because they fell out of love, but some were saying if they leave, they never were in love at all or they would keep workign on it. That is a bit crazy to think that people can't fall out of love. Of course they can.

 

I always agree give 100%, especially if you made a commitment like marriage. But if you truly have fallen out of love and you are only staying BECAUSE of the marriage license, you aren't doing yourself or your partner a lot of good service. Sometimes couples really do realize they made a mistake walking down the aisle, IMO this is sometimes even more prominent with couples who wait until marriage for sex or living together. I know that sounds atypical and goes against religion for some people, but i think it is unrealistic everytime to think two people who never were intimate and never really were around each other a great deal will suddenly do great living together day in and day out. For some, it is a huge shock and they find out "wow, i am not sure i even LIKE this person". If they find that it just isn't working, they should be allowed to exit without judgement.

[yankeefan74]

There are, of course, situations where people "fall out of love." But I absolutely agree with the original poster - and I don't think half the people who say they've fallen out of love actually DID "fall out of love." They simply don't realize that love isn't completely about the butterflies, the nervousness, the passion, and heat of a new relationship. True love, if it IS love, is about far more than that.

 

Eventually, people don't feel all the things they originally felt - so they chase those feelings. They begin to resent the fact that the person they are with just doesn't inspire those feelings anymore. They then create the very tension that they use as an excuse for leaving someone.

 

Sure, people move too quickly into relationships - they make commitments far too quickly and in the end, they realize that the compatability needed to sustain the relationship just isn't there. But that has ALWAYS happened. People have always allowed infatuation and lust to suck them into a situation that years later they have to get out of. As long as people have felt emotions that's been the case.

 

Too many people confuse love with infatuation, lust, awe, whatever....it's not that they felt out of love, it's just that those powerful emotions wear off.

 

From everything I have seen - young people and older - it's just getting easier for people to walk away. There is simply no question that in the last 30 years, we've begun to view relationships as more disposable than we used too. Internet dating doesn't help there - people just assume they can log in to a site and find someone new with the click of a mouse.

 

Again, excellent thread. Sure, some people simply aren't compatible. And when you are with someone, you change. Heck, time alone changes us. Someone that's been married for 30 years may not be even close to the same person they were when they first got married.

 

But the ability to persevere, to get through the hard times and realize that love is not always about heat, passion, and chemistry....that's something more and more people seem to not grasp. It's not as simple as saying lots of people fall out of love. It happens. But relationships are too disposable now for people. Work is hard. Moving on is easier. People need to figure out what love is before they tell someone they love them. It would make things a lot easier.

[servedcold]

It's a double edged sword. We have more freedoms and more leisure than at any time in history. In the past, the relatively recent past, leisure time was a luxury for most people. The family unit was a requirement for survival, it took two full contributors to keep the unit above water. Nice that we are free of the mandatory nature of that structure BUT

 

Now, relationships are as disposable as the mountains of stuff we throw away every day. No one really NEEDS anyone else to survive, so at the first sign of imperfection or trouble, see ya lata. The frivolous and ephemeral nature of our various "entertainments" compounds this problem. People treat each other like entertainment dispensers that can be turned on and off at will. We have become extremely self-absorbed and privileged.

 

So maybe we are at the other backlash end of the rubberband, and things will snap back into a more healthy moderate state eventually. I sure hope so.

 

EDIT: To JS, could be wrong, but I don't think OP was talking about relationships that naturally dissolve over the years, but of relationships that never form into maturity because the honeymoon inevitably fades, sooner rather than later, and folks hop trying to get that "lovin feelin" in perpetuity. Agree with all your points though.

[dreamguy]

One of the best posts about this subject that I have ever read on ENA and, not surprisingly, my point of view as well.

 

I think every dumper needs to read this and take some time to think if they are really putting an end to their relationship because they truly deeply fell out of love or perhaps because they were under the false illusion that love is always about butterflies and, as such, after some time of being in the same relationship they "think" they fell out of love.