Where has the romance gone?

[leo73]

I have a question…actually it’s more like a concern. I have been reading this blog for a few days now and I am seeing a recurring theme that disturbs me. Namely, never to act or be needy for someone else. Often this is equated with someone who is incomplete or otherwise insecure with themselves and this leads to perceptions of weakness and ultimate unattractiveness. Usually the advice I have seen is to NC ex-partners, pull away when being pushed away, and to move on before getting left behind. I, for one, have always dated women who believe in this approach and I feel like it kills the romance.

 

It seems like the advice today is that love is a tug of war between two people. Each one struggling for power of the other. Maintaining a balance between being committed to each other and being free to leave at any time. Why is it that we don’t use that rope, that connection, to pull each other closer together. Be totally committed to bonding in such a way that unites two souls and creates something bigger and more beautiful than any of us could ever achieve on our own?

 

Does anyone read the old romances? There is a recurring theme that we seem to have lost. That of “needing” to be with someone. The breathless passion, the unbearable ache to be together, overcoming impossible odds as demonstrations of devotion. The winning of hearts and minds through undaunted pursuit. Love conquering all.

 

I think that the reason why so many of us have found that when we pull away from those we are close to they pursue us even more is because we all feel a need to be needed. To convince those pulling away from us that we really are as special as we think we are. That we, as the rejected, are worthy of love. It seems like we work so hard at balancing our own lives (especially our love lives) that we have lost the ability to feel our own passion.

 

Maybe it’s fear…fear of rejection, fear of uniting with a psychopath, fear of losing ourselves to another. I don’t know.

 

I, for one, would love to know that I am needed. Not just wanted, but needed. And to need someone just as much in return. To feel unashamed with that need and to plunge myself as deeply as possible into the love we could share together. I think it’s good for the soul to just get lost in each other sometimes.

 

I guess what I’m saying is that I’m sick of the game.

 

Maybe I should just get a dog!

 

Would love to hear people’s reaction to this.

[fivespot]

It seems to me that people are more inclined to simply leave rather than work things out. And dating is just a game.

 

I'm the kind of person who will work on relationship problems to the very end...not willing to give up, unless she cheated on me or felt like she needed to leave.

 

But I think the neediness and insecurity "excuses" are just that...when what they really are trying to say is they've just lost interest, but they're turning it around and saying there's something wrong with you.

 

If she's truly into you, she will appreciate the sappy way you treat her.

 

There's a balacing act only when it seems like the girl (or guy) is on a pedestal, or you see your partner as better than you. You have to both see yourselves as equals or your partner will be probably flattered at first, but then just feel sickend as the relationship progresses.

 

I would actually welcome a girl that was needy and insecure and wanted to be with me 24/7. I've never had a girl actually "desire" me before. It would be nice for a while, in the beginning, but if she'd keep it up for months, I'd say we'd definitely need to talk.

[DropToZero]

That's what this "cruel world" seems to have done to people... taken most of the love out of it. Many people don't even treat others they don't even know with respect, and then still when they do know them.

 

Relationships/Marriages aren't covenants anymore, they're contracts(what can you do for me? instead of-what can I do for you?), and when one gets too close, another pulls away. Old romance seems cheesy to most people now, sadly if only they knew it would more than likely be a strong key to the survival of their relationships. People are so worried about being hurt themselves, they become numb and don't trust others....and when they look around, they justify themselves because of all the disrespect, cheating, lying they see not only in their own relationships, but others as well. Sooner or later it's a hard process to reverse...

 

You're right tho, balance is also key.... most people don't understand that even the most time tested of relationships take work... Nothing will ever be perfect, and your search is not to find some other "right person"...your search should be "to be the right person."

 

If you're planning on investing money into a bank account, do you not put money in it accordingly even week or so?...does it not grow? Do you not invest time and work into earning that money so you can put in in the account...? otherwise that account's not gonna grow at all...right?

 

Same thing with a relationship... are you putting time and effort into it, 2 months in? 8 months in? a year in? 5 years in? 10 years in? all the way to death... because if you're not, you're going to lose great relationships if you're not helping them grow with consistent hard work. (and no, I'm not tryin to generalize any certain people, I'm guilty of these things too, I'm still doing my best to work on it!)

 

leo's right...find a balance, don't lose sight of it, or it will be even harder to fix... work on everything, not just your jobs, your cars, your money, your hobbies, work on yourself and work in your relationships, that is romance at work, romance that thinks, minds that surprise wives/husbands when you catch them off guard with that amazing night you planned a month ago and the other had no idea...

[Crazyaboutdogs]

When someone is pulling away from you, showing how much you need them by chasing after them just drives them further away...it may make them feel pleased with themselves in a very negative, selfish, ego-boosting way but it doesn't hasten them to come back. Backing off when someone pulls away is not for the purpose of playing games...it is for the purpose of self-respect...about not running after someone who doesn't want to be with you. Being in relationships where you NEED someone, in the sense that your life is meaningless without the other person, is indeed unhealthy. You can have a healthy need for someone in the sense that you want to spend the rest of your life with them and you will go to the ends of the earth for them...but you can function fine without them..you are a whole person without them. Romance novels that I used to read didn't actually have needy women...they usually had strong women who used to spar with the person they ultimately fell in love with. None of those women NEEDED to be with the man..they were quite self-sufficient....sure they were sometimes damsels in distress, but those were due to events in their life rather than their entire existence. Neediness, due to lack of self-esteem, leads to control issues, manipulation tactics and a feeling of being smothered by the other person. At the end of the day, people don't NEED a partner...people will find ways to function without a partner...many seniors who have lost a spouse function quite well without a partner and go on to live productive lives in their remaining years. Yes we all NEED people...we can't function completely isolated...but those people can be family, friends etc...it doesn't have to be in the form of a partner.

[charity]

ahhhh... oh man leo , you have just made me want to call my ex now and declare undying love to him... but unfortunetly he's just not like that and it would be thrown back in my face. this is why we're not together, just a different view of what love and a relationship is all about. i do agree with all you say, and i guess its what im looking for. just need to find a man who's like that too(in the flesh). well, you've given me hope now that there are men like that out there. nice one!!!

[Botched]

Very nice. I have to agree in respect to the root of your point. However, I would say that to seek this is unwise.

 

But yes, to BE the loved and love in return...this is the dream.

 

I think passion is hard to hold for several reasons. Typically the relationship itself can become such a focus that the motives of the lovers change from the original point of attraction involving confidence and passion for worldy matters...these things can take a back seat in a raging romance, and eventually a return to the world is tramatic in the affair.

 

Also, needing is a fine line. I know and can say that I could live without my wife...I could live a hollow, sad, high-maintainance life that would be devastating to my current world view. But I could do it.

 

So, love strong and give it your all...what you see here is a group of people who have been hurt very badly. I am one. We try to protect ourselves..but the fact that we were hurt speaks to our ability to love completely.

[leo73]

I would never suggest that women are the needy ones in a relationship. I would suggest that they need each other. i.e. Romeo and Juliet, Cleopatra and Marc Antony, etc.

 

And what about those seniors who die soon after their spouses have died because they have lost the will to live without them? Dying of a broken heart. My uncle did just this.

 

In all, I am wondering if we are missing out on something special and magical when we convince ourselves that we are fine by ourselves.

 

Thanks for your opinion

[leo73]

I think you're right Botched. Absolute passion is a dangerous thing and many of us have been hurt before. But is it possible to hurt anymore than we have already? And wouldn't anyone want to risk that pain for the chance at extraordinary heights that could be achieved through total devotion? I would.

[DropToZero]

I would never suggest that women are the needy ones in a relationship. I would suggest that they need each other. i.e. Romeo and Juliet, Cleopatra and Marc Antony, etc.

 

And what about those seniors who die soon after their spouses have died because they have lost the will to live without them? Dying of a broken heart. My uncle did just this.

 

In all, I am wondering if we are missing out on something special and magical when we convince ourselves that we are fine by ourselves.

 

Thanks for your opinion

 

Yes we are missing out, so big!

 

I had a point in my life I convinced myself fully I needed NO ONE ELSE....that if need be I didn't care about anyone, family, friends, enemies, I did not care. I could live off the land that's how stubbornly ignorant I was about it... it was also a very dark time for me...

 

I've been missing something very magical for a while, that's why I said don't even try it! it is a very dangerous process that is hard to reverse... stay in love! not in extreme independence!

[Botched]

"I'm the kind of person who will work on relationship problems to the very end...not willing to give up, unless she cheated on me or felt like she needed to leave."

 

I used to say that exact thing. I have found that all generalizations go overboard! LOL

[leo73]

Thank you Merkal,

I'm also relieved to know that there are some people out there who want the same thing. It also gives me hope.

[leo73]

"I'm the kind of person who will work on relationship problems to the very end...not willing to give up, unless she cheated on me or felt like she needed to leave."

 

I used to say that exact thing. I have found that all generalizations go overboard! LOL

 

So true! Do you think that people love each other in general ways or in specific ways? If it is specific...does that also make it conditional?

[Botched]

"So true! Do you think that people love each other in general ways or in specific ways? If it is specific...does that also make it conditional?"

 

Good god...what a question. That is bending my mind.

 

I will say that there are specific ways. This is why we don't just pair up with the first available. We absolutely require our partners to be who we persieve them to be, according to our own perception that is..

 

However, I contest that this means love becomes conditional. I think love is more of an awareness or mysterious sense. It isn't one thing. For instance, we speak of loving seperatly form "being in love." Many couples experience this and find it both terrifying and reassuring.

 

There is general love too. I think we have some general vissions of humanity that people represent in various ways. These are important, for if we lose all faith in people and humanity, how could we love? I am not sure.

 

So, both...hows that? But, despite conditions effecting situations, I would say that love is unconditional. Anything less wasn't love. But being in love...that is another beast all together.

[DropToZero]

So true! Do you think that people love each other in general ways or in specific ways? If it is specific...does that also make it conditional?

 

 

Love cannot be conditional, or it will not last. I know people can only take so much, but if someone asks you to describe why you love the person you love...and you start listing off "because he/she makes me dinner, gives me back rubs, listens well"...and those things disappear, would your love disappear also?...or are you going to help your partner to regain them again?

[Crazyaboutdogs]

I would never suggest that women are the needy ones in a relationship. I would suggest that they need each other. i.e. Romeo and Juliet, Cleopatra and Marc Antony, etc.

 

And what about those seniors who die soon after their spouses have died because they have lost the will to live without them? Dying of a broken heart. My uncle did just this.

 

In all, I am wondering if we are missing out on something special and magical when we convince ourselves that we are fine by ourselves.

 

Thanks for your opinion

 

Let's see...Romeo thought Juliet was dead so he killed himself..she wasn't dead and when she realized Romeo killed himself, she killed herself. The double suicide was also a feature in the Antony and Cleopatra story. I don't think that kind of neediness is very healthy or romantic. It is actually quite pathetic and weak. Regarding seniors who die not long after their partner does...well, that is not typically due to suicide, that is due to the body failing...it is not a conscious, deliberate death...it is the mind and body accepting that their time on earth is done and it is time to rejoin their partner...it is a process which is occurring naturally.

[leo73]

Now I'm curious. What would you consider to be a healthy romantic relationship? One where the people involved feel so passionately about each other that they would do anything to be with them...yet never cause damage to themselves or each other? It seems kind of.....dispassionate to me.

 

I would like to have someone who I am so passionate about that if they died I would probably die too. Maybe it's unhealthy...but it is romantic. Don't you think?

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Now I'm curious. What would you consider to be a healthy romantic relationship? One where the people involved feel so passionately about each other that they would do anything to be with them...yet never cause damage to themselves or each other? It seems kind of.....dispassionate to me.

 

I would like to have someone who I am so passionate about that if they died I would probably die too. Maybe it's unhealthy...but it is romantic. Don't you think?

 

You can be really passionate about someone and not want to die because they died. In fact, if I was passionate about someone and I knew I was dying, I certainly wouldn't want them to die with me...I would want them to continue living their life. There are so many healthy possibilities for romance...there is nothing romantic about dying.

[leo73]

O.K. then...let's just forget about dying for now. What really concerns me is how much time people spend thinking about their next move in any relationship. Have I gone too far? Should I answer that e-mail? How long do I wait until I break it off? How do I tell them without hurting their feelings?

 

I think we all need to stop being afraid of hurting each other or getting hurt ourselves. Being true to your heart is a difficult thing to do and often leaves a messy wake. But I would much rather live with my mistakes than live with my "what if's".

 

It just seems like a relationship without passion for each other, although very stable and comfortable, is also dishonest somehow.

[Crazyaboutdogs]

O.K. then...let's just forget about dying for now. What really concerns me is how much time people spend thinking about their next move in any relationship. Have I gone too far? Should I answer that e-mail? How long do I wait until I break it off? How do I tell them without hurting their feelings?

 

I think we all need to stop being afraid of hurting each other or getting hurt ourselves. Being true to your heart is a difficult thing to do and often leaves a messy wake. But I would much rather live with my mistakes than live with my "what if's".

 

It just seems like a relationship without passion for each other, although very stable and comfortable, is also dishonest somehow.

 

 

I think we do need to always be aware of hurting the other person's feelings...that shouldn't stop us from doing what needs to be done, but we can do it with compassion and empathy. As for the other things you wrote above, I totally agree.

[waveseer]

The difference between interdependence and codependence is often misunderstood.

 

Interdependence is when two people co-operate and support each other to feel better and achieve more than they could apart (symbiotic).

 

Codependence is when one person allows the other to lean on them unecessarily causing both to feel worse and achieve less than they could apart (parasitic).

[Crazyaboutdogs]

The difference between interdependence and codependence is often misunderstood.

 

Interdependence is when two people co-operate and support each other to feel better and achieve more than they could apart (symbiotic).

 

Codependence is when one person allows the other to lean on them unecessarily causing both to feel worse and achieve less than they could apart (parasitic).

 

 

I am not allowed to rep you again so I will rep you here...nice post!

[waveseer]

I am not allowed to rep you again so I will rep you here...nice post!

 

Thanks! I do think it's quite awful how the host in the codependent relationship allows it's life to be sucked out of it by the parasite (depedent). Been there, done that, no need for a t-shirt to commemorate. lol

[Botched]

"It just seems like a relationship without passion for each other, although very stable and comfortable, is also dishonest somehow"

 

Ahhh, the point begins to surface. And I could not disagree more. Forget dating and buy a new Blue Ray deally bob, cause this sounds like you'd rather live in the movies. You think that if love, let's say marriage, is not burning with passion it's a lie. I disagree. Marriage, particularly, is a commitment, a choice...but a major one that is a life promise.

 

Love is a touch more maluable, but I still think that in even the best circumstances, the world, life, treads on us and passion can become a less immediate neccessity. In fact, love absolutely exists without it. That is not to say it isn't wanted or desirable. It is, it matters, passion. But LOVE would be the bind that allows couples to survive the hardships of life and reignite those flames of passion again, over and over.