Security Tennis

[Beec]

majord, you are darn right when it comes to one point. Her being with another guy says something.

 

determined, I am not saying when but there comes a time when you must require her to drop him, or she may just play you both. Before I acted like a bf, she would have to drop his ass, and tehn it would take some time before all of her bf benfits kicked in.

[majord23]

Precisely Beec,

It always amuses me (well...frustrates me) to hear about an ex telling someone that they love them, that they miss them....actually crying about it - like they have no darn choice in the matter!!!

 

If they are THAT miserable....get out!

 

As for asking her to drop the new BF, I disagree. Ultimatums aren't much good...backing someone into a corner and *forcing* them to choose can cause resentment.

 

My advice would be for 'determined' to take the high moral ground....along the lines of: "Listen *insert ex's name*, if I was in your BF's position, I wouldn't be too happy about you and I staying in contact. I think it just confuses the situation and I think we should stop contact....of course it'll hurt and I don't want to lose contact with you - but at the same time, it's the right thing to do"

 

In a way, it's an ultimatum - she then knows that she can't have both in her life....to stay with her BF means losing 'determined'. Unwittingly 'determined' has forced her to make a decision without her even realising it.

[Beec]

majord's last post well, not sure about the wording and timing for what eh says, but something like it needs to come at some time.

 

However, I will note this. determined, you should really be asking yourself whetehr you want this woman if the guy she is seeing is so awful, but she keeps seeing him, while she is trying to get back with you. What's up with that? Is she too weak to be on her own? Is she trying to have her cake and eat it too? Is he just a safety valve, in case she cannot get you back? What kind of character does she really have? Sounds like she has some growing up to do before she can do and be what she needs to be in a relationship, things like being reliable, trustworthy, faithful, etc.

[determined]

Okay, but have i gone too far already. Thank you so much for your amazing advise. I know he isn't a vindictive person and she doesn't mean to hurt me but she lives for hrself, she is a very insecure person, very, very, very and like you said I thnk to exploit this would be the best way. If I remove myself then she will be left with this guy and well, we know he wont provide that security. So when you say I mesed up, what did you do that was so bad. I mean is your advise the hard no contact which I've been messing with but never really commited to?

 

As for being played, well, yeah, I know, but I also know her better than she knows herself and why she's doing what she is. That doesn't mean I agree, I think its fckn awful. But love is blind, and she does need to grow up. I did everthing for her so its about time she stood on her own two feet.

 

Furthermore, Mjord, you sound like an identical person to me in your reactions and interpretations to the point its scary. What would you say I do, I know you outlined alot but are you saying No contact along with Beec's aloof and unavailabilty?

 

Thank you again guys, you've been amazing support

[Michael2]

No contact. Trust me on this one. She has a boyfriend. Stop being her puppet and start being a man. You will be that much stronger. Trust what these guys are saying. She has her cake and she is eating it too.

 

Im in the same boat. Ex started seeing another guy weeks after our breakup. She constantly called me. I told her to STOP calling me and move on with her life. She lost it, started crying, telling me she loves me and that she misses me and wants to hold me. THis is coming from a girl who is makes tons of loot, is beautiful and has everything going. But she doesnt have one thing she wants, which is me. The ball is now in my court, and it feel great. I told her to never call me again, and hung up. She must be freaking out, because I am sick of being her stupid puppet, and you should feel the same.

 

Move on before you loss your mind.

[Beec]

determined, I think you wnet past and through the no contact period a while, regardless of how much contact you had. To me "no ocntact" serves two purposes: it isolates you from the thing that is hurting you, so you are not continually in pain; and it prevetns you from doing stupid or foolish things to or toward the ex, like begging the ex to come back. Yeh, you might still have some pain, but you are scheming on her and still haev another potential. So long as you appear to be emotionally detached, you should be able to stay away from no contact. Always remember all of, indpendent, not emotional. You can tell her you want her, but . . .

 

As far as my comments about her, you seem to agree she has groing up to do and is insecure. For me, that means I should leave her alone and STAY AWAY (history has shown this to be a good idea). But I'm not you, and I'm not in love with "her", i.e. the woman yuo are trying to get back.

 

I'd regard that you need to dump him or lose me conversation, however it is worded as step 3 from my previous analysis. You are giving her emotional fulfillment, you are aloof, she is going to want what she cannot have (step 3), so make it so she cannot have you, when you have her where you want her. majord may disagree.

 

From your comments on her needing to grow up, I would try among the other ideas to make her emotionally fulfilled, putting her in a position where she has to grow up a little and being the support for that. Just a suggestion.

 

No contact at all may not be needed, but you cannot act like or be a boyfriend. And she is not, should not and you cannot allow her to act like a girlfriend toward you. You need to act like you are moving on, and can only come back if she is free to be yours. Be firm, be firm.

[majord23]

determined,

Likewise mate....I read your posts and could see my story from a year ago. Almost identical. Amazing really.

 

Firstly, no you definitely haven't gone too far. So relax....it was only a matter of days ago that she told you she loved you. You haven't pushed her away and she is still as insecure as ever about losing you.

 

As I said earlier - it's that insecurity that you have to exploit in order to get her back.

You asked how I messed up? I didn't commit to 'no contact'...simple as that. I swung like a pendulum - one day telling her that I couldn't speak to her anymore - the next re-commencing contact.

A couple of times I had my mind completely set on not contacting her....I actually told her that I didn't think I could ever speak to her again and I knew I could do it. (I'd actually set myself a goal of 2 months).

BOTH times I attempted it, she texted me within 3 days....and I crumbled. I slipped back into the submissive role....being there for her...until eventually she didn't need me.

In a nutshell, she strung me along (BF isn't great...still love you...miss our chats....etc etc) and I kept telling her how I felt - she KNEW that she could have me if she wanted me or if things didn't work out with her new BF.

Once she felt secure in the new relationship however, her behaviour towards me changed….she felt secure with him, so didn't need me as a safety-net anymore.

 

Looking back, I really kick myself. If I hadn't crumbled and resumed contact, she would have come back - I'm actually friends with her brother, who has told me as much.

 

Basically your ex's new BF is an unknown quantity to her....she's not sure whether it will work out and so needs some reassurance that you are available if it doesn't. She will keep you there as long as she needs to…and then back right off when she feels more comfortable with him.

 

So obviously the key is to not let her become too comfortable in her new relationship.

How do you do that? Make her worry about losing you. She is worried already…..make her worry more.

 

If you decide to cut off contact….do it calmly and use a matter-of-fact approach. Even write it down before you say it.

Simply state that you feel as though you are being held back and aren't able to move on because of the way things are. Even tell her that you've got your eye on a girl, but you want to be 'completely free' before you act on it. So it's probably for the best if you don't speak for a while.

 

Now be ready for 2 things: One- her reaction (as I've already said…crying…telling her she loves you…she doesn't want to lose you etc)…but give NOTHING away. Tell her it's for the best and you both have to stay strong. Don't tell her you love her, don't tell her you want to be with her….just tell her that this is something you have to do in order to 'move on'.

 

The number 2 thing you should be ready for is YOUR reaction.

You'll feel guilty, you'll feel as though you've pushed her away. You'll have the urge to phone her and tell her that the girl you spoke about 'isn't anything serious'….but DON'T. That makes her feel secure….and remember – her security is the enemy.

 

Imagine how she'll feel….you've cut off contact, you've got your eye on a girl, and she is left (alone) with a guy that she isn't sure about.

How do you think she's going to spend her evenings? She'll be wondering where you are…who you're with….how you can be so strong and not call her….she will be an insecure mess determined, believe me. And it won't be long before she comes running.

But even then....you aren't on safe ground. IF she comes running back...she will play the same game. She'll call you, tell you she's missed you and that she loves you. It's at that point that you have to have REAL strength. Ask her what's changed? Is she still with her BF? If she is...politely tell her that you can't stay in contact with her...stick to your plan. When that phonecall ends, she will be more insecure than ever...and then she may actually take some action.

 

When myself and my ex first broke up (our second weekend apart)….I mentioned to her that I had gone clubbing (something I hadn't done for ages). Anyway she asked how my night had gone and I innocently said "Really good thanks, just had a few drinks and a laugh".

She called me 3 days in a row after that…..it was only on the third call that she said "Why are you being evasive about Saturday night? Have you met someone??". I laughed and reassured her that I hadn't.

 

It was then I realised just how insecure I could make her by being vague (and it wasn't even intentional!). If only I'd stuck to it mate…

 

Keep me posted bro

[determined]

Ok, I'll work on it. It's Thurs morning and still now word, don't think she's going to call so I guess I wont be seeing her this weekend. I dont think she will contact me for a while now as she will see this as her rejecting me so she will back off, out of guilt and how I will react when I speak to her next., This doesn't really inspire any confidence in my situation.

[Beec]

You put the ball in her court. Wait for her to hit it back. You know how the game is played. What's that other woman up to anyway??

[determined]

I spoke to her flat mate today, my friend from school. Apparently she is really up for me to come and see her...yet she hasn't told me that...also she said there is still alot between us and stuff we need to sort out...she didnt tell me that.

 

Dont really know what the hell is going on I mean its Friday, she cant just ring me then and say, oh are you coming up then (its a 5 hour drive from London to Newcastle)!!

 

As for the other girl, I'll be going out with her on Friday if this doesn't come about. I know I know, horrible on the face of it but she's cool with the situation, she's a mate really as opposed to a gf.

[Beec]

You'll never know what she is thinking.

 

Be vague, see how her not "expressing" herself, how her not giving you a sign, affects you? See it drives you nuts. It will work for her too.

 

Feed her some attention, show her you care, fulfill her emotional needs, then withhold those signs and things, then show her some, then withhold.

 

Play the game, play the game, play the game.

 

Hey, your other woman sounds cool. Why aren't you interested in her?? Maybe because she doesn't know how to play you.

[determined]

Well I'm still wrapped in my ex and she isn't my type for a relationship.

 

As for my ex, well I showed her emotional fulfilment on Monday night and haven't spoken to her since (as i did say call me if you want me to come and see you) does that constitute withdrwal of emotional support???

[majord23]

 

As for the other girl, I'll be going out with her on Friday if this doesn't come about. .

 

And this is where you have to be strong determined. Look at the sentence you wrote.

 

"if this doesn't come about"....No my friend - go out with the other girl on Friday NO MATTER WHAT.

 

What message does it send to your ex if you have kept Friday night free for her....or even worse, that you are willing to CANCEL PLANS to see her?

 

If she phones, simply tell her "Sorry, I've already got plans - if you'd called me earlier in the week I may have been able to make it."

 

I know how it feels to desperately want to see her...I know that you are actually willing her to call you and ask you to go to Newcastle....but NOW is where your actions matter most.

 

Look at it this way...if she calls, then she obviosuly wants to see you. Remember....you are not meant to give her what she wants!

As Beec has already said - she will want what she can't have.

 

If you tell her you're busy, you have attained the upperhand. You have placed doubt in her mind about the power she has over you.

 

Seriously bro. Do this and she will be thinking "Whoa...what's happened here?"

 

Believe me and trust me mate. No matter how much you may think that seeing her is a good thing....it aint.

[Beec]

 

 

If she phones, simply tell her "Sorry, I've already got plans - if you'd called me earlier in the week I may have been able to make it."

 

 

 

Bingo.

 

I'd only follow this up with a let's see if we can work something out for another time.

 

When I am seeking a weekend "date" with someone I am not involved with, my rule is to ask by Wed. Asking after make syou seem desparate. And some women will not accept, regardless of if they are free, if you ask after Wed. so they do not seem desparate.

[determined]

ok, she has until tonight (thurs) if she is mad enough to call on fri and expect me to go up then I will have to say sorry, i hope you guys are right. That is if she calls, if she doesn't then I'm really in no hope land. Ok I'll be strong, its about time.

 

Thank you again for your support guys you're both my wise council through this crap, aswell as Street. So the plan is to say sorry if you called earlier I would've been able to come but I've now made plans, why dont you think of another time and let me know in advnace...ok...I'll stick to that....again...ihope you're right nd this doesn't push her away

[majord23]

determined,

Firstly, it won't push her away. You have 2 options if she calls...say yes you'll see her....or no you're busy.

In effect she has 2 options as well....she will call you....or she won't.

 

Now tell me this honestly - which one of HER actions will make you hurt more, and make you want her more? Answer: If she doesn't call.

 

Why? Because she has given you an indication that maybe she doesn't need you as much as you would like her to. I will say it again - that is how you have to make her feel!!

 

When she seems unavaliable, you miss her more. When she hurts you, you want her more. And when she does this, it can lead to you taking action....action that WILL push her away (ie feeding her hunger for security).

 

And one very important thing: What is this "no-hope land" garbage mate?

You can't look at it that way at all. It's a weekend determined, that's all it is. On Monday she was crying, telling you she loves you....and you're going to overlook that and give up hope if you don't hear from her before the weekend?

 

This is what I'm talking about determined...when you're hurting as much as you are, it is very easy to lose perspective and it's very easy to weaken and do something silly.

 

If you don't hear from her before the weekend, I guarantee that you'll start planning to call her next week. You'll start thinking of reasons/excuses to call her. You'll start thinking of the 'perfect thing to say' that just may change her mind (you may already be thinking about it now).

Like I've said - I've been there mate and I know EXACTLY how you feel and I'm guessing that I am pretty close on my prediction of what you're thinking as well.

 

I'm not trying to be mean, I hope it doesn't come accross that way mate. You really do have to trust me on this determined....which is alot to ask of you when you don't really know me....but do it anyway.

[majord23]

determined,

I thought I'd share this with you. The reason I started visiting this board is because I was going through a bit of an emotional time. My ex and I lost contact after having a BIG falling out over her new BF last April.

 

The reason we fell out is because she strung me along for months, and when I couldn't take it anymore, when she had started to 'discard me' if you like...when I literally had hurt as much as a man could for 5 months, I told her exactly what I thought of her.

I called her on all of her emotional games...told her how predictable her behaviour was, how she had used me until she didn't need me and I also let rip about the new BF....I'd never met him, but was able to use the info she had given to me about him as ammunition.

I made it easier for her to walk away…because she was able to blame me; she was able to use anger as an incentive to walk away. Ironically, for all the she had put me through…I turned out to be the bad guy.

 

That was April.

 

Anyway, a few months went by...and I knew that there was no turning back - I'd said stuff that I couldn't take back, so I just got on with it. Believe it or not, I eventually felt relief that the drama had ended...but at the same time, I missed her.

 

So, September arrived........I still thought about her and decided to email her - a very superficial email, just asking how things were.

She made me wait 2 weeks for a reply, but she replied. She got a few low-blows in mind you....she dropped names of places she was planning holidays (with the BF) etc.

We exchanged a few emails…and the tennis ball was left with her (I replied last).

 

So, in October, I sent another superficial email…I figured I would slowly try to build bridges. The same result as September….without the low blows…..but the ball was once again left with her.

 

At the start of November (noticing a pattern here lol), I emailed again…this time, the emails were much more friendly….the ball was in her possession once more however. So I decided to give up. I thought 'Leave it...this isn't getting anywhere'. I also realised that some of her emails had been quite short (short but friendly) and I just felt that I was making more of an effort than her.

 

So I continued with my life….then, in the middle of December, out of the blue, she emailed me. I realised that even though it had only been an occasional email, I had got into her head a little. Stupidly I replied in my normal happy-go-lucky, friendly manner……and the ball stayed…guess where? lol

 

January…I emailed again…same story as November. Damn I was starting to miss that ball

 

So I made a conscious decision to wrestle it from her possession. Yesterday I sent a group email (to 60 people)…just an email about what I'd been up to…a few funny stories etc. She was the first to reply. I saw my chance and jumped at it. I didn't reply in my friendly manner…I sent a one-line email…she replied….I sent another one-line email…she replied….I didn't…..and I got that ball.

 

Right, to be honest I felt better than what I should have…all I'd done was been a bit short with her and not replied to her email, right?….but I still considered it a victory.

 

Well tonight, after almost 10 months of not hearing her voice, 10 months of missing her and 5 months of me making a big effort to be sweet, friendly and supportive in emails to no avail…..she called.

 

Why did she call? Because she thought I was pissed off with her.

 

And that my friend, is why you have to be strong and keep your cards close to your chest.

Now I don't know where I'm heading at the moment…I've made a break-through, and the ONLY reason I made that break-through is because I got hold of the ball.

 

If you get it…which you will….never give it up.

[Michael2]

Awesome post Majord.

 

You are right on .. hitting so many levels.

 

You have to get the ball in your court.

 

Challenge my friend. Stop playing games, cut contact, if she calls dont pick up, disregard emails, she will wonder what is going on. Where did he go, and that is when you feel ten times better.

 

PS: Majord, you want to know why she called. Not because she thought you were pissed. Because you cut the strings. You stopped being the go to, emotional crutch kinda guy. Good for you. Keep it up!

[determined]

Well she didn't call incidentally. You're right I shouldn't see this as a huge defeat but another aspect of my learning curb. I never caled or text her since my proposal on Monday so I guess at least I've done that...normally I would've caved in around Wed or Thurs and asked what was happening but I didn't.

 

I very much doubt she is audacious enough to call today, if she does I'll tell her sorry I've made plans. Well, here's to the next tennis match, this one, well I can't call it a draw I suppose but it was fairly close. Time to sit tight, not contact her and go out and stay busy. I'll keep you guys posted.

 

Thank you again. And Mjord, when she rang out of the blue last night how did you feel, I mean did your heart just jump when you saw her name on your phone?

[majord23]

Firstly, thanks for your response and encouraging words Michael...and you made a very good point!

 

determined,

You are doing really well mate. I know it's hard to do at the moment...but you have really got to try to look at the big picture and once you see it, keep focussed on it. I think you are starting to realise that.

 

Weekends may come and go...and this whole process may take longer than you would like it to. But at the end of the day, as long as you have 'the ball', you the have power.(BTW, I love the title of this thread....great analogy bro! ).

 

Always try to remember how it feels to be without 'the ball', and how easy it is to lose it.

 

You have already said that usually you would have contacted her on Wednesday or Thursday...that's brilliant that you didn't! You should be proud of yourself, because I know how much effort it takes to stop sending even a "How are you?" text. It sounds harmless….but what she will read into it (as you would read into it if she sent the same text) is…"Oh, they're thinking of me"….but at the end of the day, you don't want her to know what you're thinking.

 

The next thing I'm about to say is probably what you'll hear hundreds of other people say...and it's not something that you want to hear (nor did I). But (hear it comes...) Move on with your life and keep busy!

 

Now the reason *most* people will tell you that is because they don't want you to get stuck and they want you to just forget about your ex ("more fish in the sea" and all that). But I know that forgetting about your ex and meeting someone else is the last thing you're thinking about...just how I felt in the same situation.

The reason I am saying it to you is this: When you spend time by yourself, nights in and alone...days DRAG! Weeks feel like an eternity and you can't even begin to imagine a whole month passing.

When you have time to dwell on the situation, it will consume you and you will ultimately feel terrible.

By getting out and about, catching up with friends that you haven't seen for a while or just doing things that you enjoy (even if you don't feel like it)…time will go by quicker and it's not as hard to maintain 'no contact'.

Force yourself to go out, and in the end…you won't have to….you will want to. I know for me that when I was in a relationship, spending a night in alone was fine….the week after we broke-up, it was a complete nightmare and the last thing I felt like doing.

 

As for how I felt when my ex called – well, she called on the landline so I didn't know it was her. It took me completely by surprise to be honest. It has opened my eyes quite a lot. I had built her up to almost 'celebrity-like' status because I hadn't spoken to her for ages….and it was almost a reality check to actually talk to her.

 

She hasn't changed much. Still with the BF…said that they are planning to buy a house at the end of the year….and then added '...but it's only early days…"…and "…but it's a long way off…".

 

That actually amazed me. Here we are, over a year down the track, she is planning on buying a house with him...and she is still playing their relationship down. Contradictions aplenty…and I can only assume it's some kind of effort to illicit an internal response from me (ie throw me a little bit of bait to keep me interested.)

 

To be completely honest, the phone-call was good – I feel better for having spoken to her (not worse), I don't have any hope of a reconciliation and I got exactly what I wanted…my long-lost ball!!

[Beec]

Just an added benefit to getting on with your life.

 

Let's see if I can repeat myself one more time.

 

When you are out and doing things and getting on and trying to be happy, you are really appearing to be a loof and independent, so you are also still working your game.

 

Appearing to be happy is a big step. You are not, but you try to look that way. Then people see you as happy and you are happy to see them, and they are happy to see you. No one wants to greet an ogre. And then their attitude rubs back off on you, and you become a little happier.

[majord23]

Exactly Beec.

I apologise if you made that point earlier and I missed it....this thread has got so many words in it

 

Cheers 8)

[Beec]

No apologies needed.

 

I just felt like I sounded like a broken record, which I feel like often when I post.

 

It's such a simple game but so hard to play sometimes. The thing is that if you play it right, you can have almost anyone who expresses any interest. But the other part is that each person needs to get played slightly differently.

 

My gf keeps complimenting herself or putting herself down all the time. How can I compliment her looks right after she complained about how fat she is or right after she called herself pretty. Then she complains that I don't comliment her. This morning she got another comment about not doing this, but she won't learn. She wants the fulfillment of the compliment, but is not willing to wait long enough to get it. Then when I do find a chance and give her one, she loves it. Advantage me.

[vfunkera]

hey guys,

 

I've been following this and i have to praise to majord23 and Beec for the advice being given, if only everyone had heard this. If i ever come into this situation i will know who to turn to!

 

I guess its not just break-ups where these games need to be played, but also during a relationship as well, which in my opinion is really sad, but it must be done if you want to survive through it and win.

 

Like Beec said, whoever comes out the most independent and confident will be the one who will have the upper hand- even if its artificial or fake.

 

In a relationship, both of you -especially the man (because girls are attracted to a confident guy)- have to play this game in a relationship so it is maintained- it keeps the spark in the relationship. If you don't then you will lose, because you give the impression that you are clingy and desperate and this will drive the other partner away.

 

I am living proof. I thought these games weren't required, and i praised my girl whenever i could. She kept away the way Beec describes with his girl, and it kept me almost 'chasing' her with compliments so that she would at least give some back. In the end, i gave her the impression that she was too good for me and she split.

 

Break-ups are just as effective- the sooner you gain advantage the better, because both of you will be dwelling on the relationship. REMEMBER that at the end of the day everyone looks out for number 1- themselves. So when you think about it, if you make them feel like they have made a mistake in leaving you, or that you are moving on happily while they are still mourning over what you had, then thats what will make them want you back. They will want you back so that you can feel what they are feeling. They let you go presuming you will be mourning, but they misjudged the situation and you seem to be flying without wings- wouldn't you feel a little peed off if you were in that situation?

 

Thats the roots of how the game works, and if you do ever get back with the person who dumped you, its just as important to play this game and keep it up until they finally fall believing you will never be conquered-you are the best thing ever and cannot be replaced, and they will not want to let go of you because they have something that is too good for them and they want to keep it. For that they will fall in love with you, and ask about marriage, kids etc!

 

Good luck guys, Just keep confident and secure in yourself and stay desirable!

[Beec]

Keep the upper hand, yes. But one of the other elements to the whole thing is the trust / vulnerability aspects. My gf has problems waiting long enough to trust that I will pay her a compliment. I give them, but not always like she wants and not as often. I give them when I want to in teh way I want to. In a short while I will tell her to change pants before she goes out. Why? She (well her rear) looked good in the ones she had on this morning. She wants me to say she looks beautiful and pretty, instead I am going to say she has a hot looking rear. I will play it a little coy and it will work for me.

 

OK my point is that, when you get her falling your way, you need to both show her that you are worthy of being trusted and that you trust her, and not just to only spread her legs for you. You need to allow yourself to be vulnerable in front of her once in a while. Kind of a baring of your soul. She needs to see that you trust her in this way. You cannot force her to be vulnerable, but you should see when she is making herself vulnerable and demonstrate that you are trustworthy. Again, wait sometimes to hit that tennis ball back. She will like being vulnerable for a while, then having that tension relieved. Reacting immediately, like immediately returning her phone calls, is not always good.

 

But that's a whole other aspect of the game. determined is not anywhere near that stage of the game. And, I have not figured all of that out yet. I know things about it, but I am no authority. Further research is needed. It seems to work like the rest of the game, show less vulnerability and show that you are really trustworthy. Keep it in mind.

 

The one other thing to keep in mind. It's easy to "know" how to play the game, than it is to get in there and do it right.