Approaching women

[Shudder]

whatever works for you man. just dont tell others that your method is the only one that works.

[Sarati]

Hi, it sounds like perhaps you are afraid of rejection. However, what are your true motives? Are you looking for a committed relationship, or are you just looking to get laid? If your motive is just to get laid, then what you are hearing is your conscience telling you that you should NOT approach, if all you will want ultimately is to get sex from the woman. Women have a hard-wired radar which alerts them to men whose motive is to only seduce them. Healthy women will run like heck in the opposite direction; unbalanced or emotionally compromised women will bite the hook and let you bed them, while you (saying to yourself "well, hm, that was easy") yawn and lose interest almost immediately. Which in turn will set up a cycle of the woman feeling hurt and used and...jeez, need I go on? I so want to refrain from sounding harsh, because I have received so much help from people on this site for my own romantic woes. I want my input to help you toward a positive result or at least some insight into your own fears, motives, patterns, etc.

 

I strongly suggest that you do some soul-searching. Have you ever been married before? Evaluate your life goals, try to figure out if, on some level, you are buying into the lie that in order to be masculine, a guy has to be successful at scoring with women. That's not true at all. If you like a woman, and you want to get to know her and build a friendship with her, realize that part of the process is the occasional rejection. This is true in other relationships as well. Some of the time, people will prefer us, and some of the time they will not. Next! The main thing you need to do is evaluate your TRUE motives. If they are only self-serving and you have no desire to love, honor, cherish... then you join the ranks of all the other narcissistic cads out there. If you want a monogamous companion, then work from that perspective and keep being a good guy, power thru the occasional rejection, and soon you will most likely meet a nice lady you can spend your life with. Dig?

[Imprecision]

I should make shorter, more succinct posts. People don't finish long posts. I have to repeat myself a lot.

 

Eliana,

 

I don't want to get laid. Nor do I want to a girlfriend (unless she satisfies my three criteria).

 

For me, pick-up is a skill. I want to be a translator and a writer. Right now, I'm translating ancient texts on divination from Chinese into English. But I also want to be a writer. I plan to go to the Chinese frontiers next May. Then I'll have adventures and write about them. (I also want to learn magical rituals and divination techniques there.)

 

I realise that I need adventure skills. The most important adventure skill is social skills. No social skill equals no adventure, unless you have a special talent which requires people to seek you out.

 

Some other skills I'm learning include memorising Shakespearean monologues, studying English history, writing impromptu sonnets, etc.

 

For me, pick-up is best testing ground for my skills. I can use everything. I make toasts. I pull Shakespearean quotes. I polish my anecdotes etc.

 

I'm also developing my photo-album, which includes all the girls I've dated or slept with. This album also includes personal information on each girl. This is just for fun. Something I've always wanted to do. Something I now have the skills to do.

 

If I find that spectacular woman who is brave, adventurous, loyal, fierce, yet graceful and elegant, then I'll marry her. Otherwise - if I don't admire a girl with all my heart, then I won't commit to her.

[Imprecision]

Women have a hard-wired radar which alerts them to men whose motive is to only seduce them. Healthy women will run like heck in the opposite direction; unbalanced or emotionally compromised women will bite the hook and let you bed them, while you (saying to yourself "well, hm, that was easy") yawn and lose interest almost immediately.

 

By the way, I don't think this is true. Clearly false, when you read the posts on this forum.

 

Healthy women have radars which weed out "nice guys." They like men who have attractive qualities, such as leadership and decisiveness. They also want men they can trust. First, I think if you're upfront about wanting an open relationship, then you aren't toying with anyone. Second, "men they can trust" actually means "men women think they can trust." This is why women go for untrustworthy men all the time.

[My Advice]

haha, I just got an incredibly hot girl's number when she sat next to me and noticed me posting on here. The girl could be a model. She used to come to this website and it started a whole conversation. nothing may come from it, and that's okay cuz there are plenty of beautiful women out there, but it just goes to show that you can avoid cheesy pickup lines and meet attractive people anywhere.

 

By the way Elina, what are you smoking? Women are always complaining about sleezy men they've dated who use them for sex and don't return their calls. If anything, women are hardwired to avoid men who aren't confident, although I think hard wired is the wrong word for it.

[ProtestTheHero]

By the way, I don't think this is true. Clearly false, when you read the posts on this forum.

 

Healthy women have radars which weed out "nice guys." They like men who have attractive qualities, such as leadership and decisiveness. They also want men they can trust. First, I think if you're upfront about wanting an open relationship, then you aren't toying with anyone. Second, "men they can trust" actually means "men women think they can trust." This is why women go for untrustworthy men all the time.

 

I think she meant "smart" women can tell when a dude is trying to seduce you, etc.

 

Any guy who uses a scenario, an opinion opener, etc. is easily spotted as being that type of guy. The cute guy sitting in the corner reading a book has a better chance of being genuine than the so called "alpha male" approach.

 

This is why when it comes to approaching women I tend to agree with Ghost, Aviatormy, diggity, etc. You gotta cut the BS. Say hi, be real, and it goes where it goes. If you go home and get out a pencil and spend hours poring over your openers, you are already failing.

[Imprecision]

Tyler,

 

You've gotta think like a woman. For a woman, a scenario is fun and entertaining. She knows it's imaginary. She knows it's made-up. She participates because she likes you.

 

Guys like to be sincere, honest, and predictable. Women don't like predictable guys. And their idea of "honest" and "sincere" is different from ours.

 

Also, women like being seduced. As Suffolk says in Henry the VI Part I,

 

She's beautiful, and thereforee to be wooed.

She is a woman, thereforee to be won.

 

Women like guys who talk smoothly and beautifully. Women like guys who talk slowly. Like how honey flows and drips from jar. Most men are laconic, direct, and honest. These are bad traits.

 

Also, a complex opener is more likely to come off as genuine than a "Hi, how are you doing?" First, if you have practice, then your mind isn't even thinking about the opener. You start with "my friend is..." And then you start improvising. I now have an army of imaginary friends - the bald guy, the phonology teacher, the 50-year-old, the hot blonde, etc. It's really funny.

 

Second, it's non-committal. Each of you can take your time to evaluate each other. "Hi, how are you doing" is an obvious come-on. The woman's defense goes up immediately. Also, it forces the woman to make an immediate choice - do I like this guy?

 

Imagine the following scenario:

 

Hi, how are you doing?

Fine.

Do you come to this bar often?

Yes.

Do you live in Vancouver?

Yes.

What do you do for work?

Uh, I have to go now. Talk to you later!

 

Most men's bar game goes no more than the above. Sometimes, the girl sticks around. Then the guy goes into stories conveying attractive traits about themselves. Or for whatever idiosyncratic reason, the girl feels that the guy has high value. Then she goes out with him.

 

So yes, the "average approach" does work. But poorly and inconsistently.

 

Just to clarify - I don't want to put anyone down. Not trying to get into an argument. I'm just showcasing why I do my approaches my way, my rationales for my approaches, etc.

[ProtestTheHero]

I guess I would just find women who fall for that stuff to be very unattractive because it would require them to be extremely simple for it to work.

 

I can't argue with success, though. I have no doubts that it does work on a lot of women in the club scene. I am a little disturbed by the fact that they are falling for it, though.

[Imprecision]

I guess I would just find women who fall for that stuff to be very unattractive because it would require them to be extremely simple for it to work.

 

Why? Just two people having fun. Life should be light and easy. Besides, the opener is no more than an interesting, entertaining entry into an engaging conversation.

 

When I was in high-school, my mom told me I was too serious. Thank God I grew out of "too serious." Fun, easy, and light - that's how women like it.

 

I can't argue with success, though. I have no doubts that it does work on a lot of women in the club scene. I am a little disturbed by the fact that they are falling for it, though.

 

I never go to clubs. I went to bars every night in HK. I rarely go to bars in Vancouver.

[ProtestTheHero]

I'm all for having fun, but I'd prefer it to be goofy and spontaneous instead of planned. I suppose that's just a personal preference though.

[Lowconfidence]

My friend is short, okay looking, has a crappy job, but he can out talk most guys I know. Currently he is seeing someone, has another girl on the go, and turned down a couple of girls recently.

 

He uses a lot of opinion and situational questions. He hooks a lot of girls into this. They love it and find it amusing.

 

Most people underestimate him but I've seen him in action. His tactics won't work on every female but if he was just his boring self he wouldn't get anywhere.

 

I do think opinion questions are great and breaks the ice most of the time.

[Imprecision]

Well, after all this sound and fury about openers - I have good news for everyone:

 

Openers are the least of your worries. You use it for one reason: to start a conversation without the girl blowing you off.

 

After opening, you have to build attraction and rapport. Then you have to seduce her. Hopefully, sex will be good. Or not - some guys need personal instructions. As with all things, you get better with practice.

[Lowconfidence]

 

Any guy who uses a scenario, an opinion opener, etc. is easily spotted as being that type of guy. The cute guy sitting in the corner reading a book has a better chance of being genuine than the so called "alpha male" approach.

 

This is why when it comes to approaching women I tend to agree with Ghost, Aviatormy, diggity, etc. You gotta cut the BS. Say hi, be real, and it goes where it goes. If you go home and get out a pencil and spend hours poring over your openers, you are already failing.

 

Even though the cute guy in the corner is genuine the girls would rather have the "alpha male".

[Imprecision]

Lowconfidence,

 

Interesting anecdote about the friend. Thanks for sharing.

 

I too have a friend. I mentioned him earlier - 5 ft 4. I won't say he's bad-looking. He's my friend, so I have to like his looks. But he's not classically beautiful.

 

Anyway, he's the best pick-up artist I've seen. Sometimes, he stands beside a girl. Then he pretends to take out a cell-phone and says, "Oh my God! You won't believe this - this girl beside me is so rude." And then he starts making fun of the girl.

 

Hilarious stuff.

 

Whenever he opens a set, girls give him so many indicators of interest - the girls eye him like hungry wolves. They make every excuse to grab his arm.

 

I'm telling you guys about my friend, because I deeply believe that personality trumps everything for women.

 

Live life without excuses.

[Lowconfidence]

Lowconfidence,

 

I'm telling you guys about my friend, because I deeply believe that personality trumps everything for women.

 

Live life without excuses.

 

I do believe personality is very important and can overcome looks and money. But there are women who do want financial security and won't settle for less. Just as there are women who won't settle for a short man, a man of different race, colour, religion, etc, etc.

 

So in this case I disagree and say most of the time personality can win a woman over but not all the time.

[hockeyplaya44]

How come every time I say Hey, how's it going?" I get a light hearted response and end up in a solid conversation? I'm not seeing this ultra defense system you speak of.

[Imprecision]

Lowconfidence,

 

That's true. My saying is a general rule - there are exceptions.

 

I want to talk more about my friend, though. So many heroic exploits:

 

1. Once, he slept with this girl. The girl's father didn't like him. So he went back and chatted with the mom. Then he slept with the mom.

 

2. Once, we were standing in line for movie tickets. This beautiful, gorgeously-matched couple stood behind us. The girl was pregnant. So my friend made fun of the guy the whole time. He implied that the guy wasn't the father, and that the girl liked sex too much. The girl kept laughing and laughing. The guy smiled stupidly like a deer caught by headlights. Eventually, my friend let the couple go, because he felt sorry for the guy.

 

3. This guy is committed to the art and science of seduction. Whenever we meet up, he calls from his cell, "I'm going to be late. I have to approach these girls."

 

He tells me he misses his bus all the time. He misses his bus, because he sees girls around the bus-stop, so he reflexively approaches them.

 

Everytime we drink coffee, he approaches the barrista.

 

4. This guy sounds tough, but he has a soft side. He cares deeply about his friends.

 

Sometimes, he approaches mixed groups of girls and guys. He can make the guys look like fools easily. But he refrains, because he feels sorry for the guys. So he sets the girls up with the guys.

 

Anyway, one amazing guy.

[hockeyplaya44]

I'd have to see this to believe it. I swear a 5'4 ugly guy could NOT pick up 90% of the girls I know. Maybe I'm friends with superficial people, but I just can't see it.

[Imprecision]

More exploits:

 

1. Another time, we were once again standing in line for movie tickets. Then this brunette kept staring at him. My friend and I were sketched out. Then, fifteen minutes later, my friend said, "Ahaha, I remember her. I slept with her. And then she called me a few times. I never called back."

 

2. This guy taught me the "imaginary party." To get phone numbers and emails, just tell the girl that you find her interesting. Because you find her interesting, you want to invite her to your house party on Saturday. This party is, of course, imaginary. When she says she wants to go, then you should ask for her phone number and email.

 

My friend never uses this technique now, though - because he is so advanced. He creates so much attraction within 5 minutes that girls are dying to pass him their numbers. I'm amateurish, so I still use the "imaginary party."

 

At home, this guy has a pile of notebooks full of numbers and emails. (Usually, you reserve one page for one email/number, because you don't want to activate the anti-player defense. But still, one notebook is 100-plus numbers and emails.)

 

3. This guy has diverse tastes in women. For a while, he was really into goth girls. So he slept with several goth girls. And now, he's into blondes, so he's dating several blondes at once.

 

Just an amazing guy. But he tells me that he once started out as an introverted, shy kid. He found courage. He found his fearless spirit. By consistent practice, discipline, and grit, he became the master of pick-up.

 

When I first met him, my skills were so-so. I was mediocre. I wondered whether the heights of pick-up mastery and the legends of pick-up masters were possible. But having met this guy, my faith in the art and science of pick-up is restored. This guy is a shining beacon. He is the lighthouse of pick-up. Having met this guy, my own skills tripled, because I observed his skills and correspondingly modified my own.

 

This guy is a true master. He is devoted to the art. He doesn't care about sex or girlfriends. He shares his secret techniques with his friends, because he wants to see them succeed and thrive.

 

When we first met, he said, "If you're in pick-up for sex or for girlfriends, I won't teach you. I've decided to teach you, because you told me beforehand that you're into pick-up as an adventure skill."

 

I'm very good-looking. I'm proud of my good looks. My good looks are part of who I am. But as I've said, good looks count for little with women. Even with my good looks, I will never reach my friend's level. He's so devoted to his skill. Even as I gradually improve my skills, he improves by leaps and bounds.

[hockeyplaya44]

What is it that makes him so attractive to women? and please explain in full detail, what he does in the first 5 minutes that makes im so irresistible.

[Imprecision]

Hockeyplaya44,

 

As I said above - if you practise openers consistently, then your sticking points will auto-correct. For instance, after my first twenty approaches, I learnt to talk slowly. I learnt to walk slowly. I learnt to talk like honey flowing smoothly. I learn to smile slyly. I learnt to make girls laugh while telling the most mundane stories.

 

Usually, this guy uses opinion openers. He uses the jealous-girlfriend opener.

 

His personality is outgoing. He is fun, light, easy-going. He teases girls ruthlessly. He sometimes disses them. (Again, he used to be introverted and shy. These things came through practice.)

 

I can tell you all theoretical and practical details on paper. But details would be misleading. You have to practise to get good at it. If you don't practise, you won't "get" it. 90% of pick-up is non-verbal. But words are still important. This refers to the opener.

 

After the opener, attraction, rapport, and seduction are harder to explain. You just have to keep practising. Then, bit by bit, you begin to "get" it.

[hockeyplaya44]

Hockeyplaya44,

 

As I said above - if you practise openers consistently, then your sticking points will auto-correct. For instance, after my first twenty approaches, I learnt to talk slowly. I learnt to walk slowly. I learnt to talk like honey flowing smoothly. I learn to smile slyly. I learnt to make girls laugh while telling the most mundane stories.

 

Usually, this guy uses opinion openers. He uses the jealous-girlfriend opener.

 

I can tell you all theoretical and practical details on paper. But you have to practise to get good at it. 90% of pick-up is non-verbal. But words are still important. This refers to the opener.

 

After the opener, attraction, rapport, and seduction are harder to explain. You just have to keep practising. Then, bit by bit, you begin to "get" it.

 

 

I'm not asking for my benefit, I have no trouble with my social life whatsoever. I think at 18, I'm way ahead of the game. I'm just curious cause I'd put 10 grand on the table saying I know 10 girls who your friend could not pick up.

[Imprecision]

I wasn't saying these things for your benefit. I was only explaining how you can't explain pick-up on paper. You have to see it and do it to understand it.

[ghost69]

Even though the cute guy in the corner is genuine the girls would rather have the "alpha male".

 

cause the cute guy is more than likely boring. the alpha male is outgoing and fun to be around usually.

 

How come every time I say Hey, how's it going?" I get a light hearted response and end up in a solid conversation? I'm not seeing this ultra defense system you speak of.

 

it's very hard to see hockey. you have to be imprecision to see it.

 

I wasn't saying these things for your benefit. I was only explaining how you can't explain pick-up on paper. You have to see it and do it to understand it.

 

most of the things you have explained are lies though. they aren't openers. the balding friend and the jealous gf.

[ProtestTheHero]

Being loud does not make you interesting...there needs to be a balance in my opinion. "Wooo hooo, YEAH, THIS IS GREAT! YOU LADIES WANNA DANCE!?!?!?!" is not interesting. The so called "alpha males" are rarely really "top dogs." They just look the part. Most are just dumb asses who think people care about what they have to say.

 

In my world, incredibly passive people have a hard time getting girls. A lot of alpha males aren't that great at it either, because underneath all the loud barking is an insecure puppy who's hoping his extraversion is all he needs.

 

Let me use a nerd reference as an example. Think of Lord of the Rings characters in the first movie from a personality perspective:

 

Gandalf: Too passive

Boromir: Loud, perhaps perceived as the "alpha male"

Aragorn: True alpha male

 

Aragorn is the necessary balance.