Approaching women

[Mickeysant]

Ok...Here's the deal. I am much older than some of you on here. The problem I have is approaching women. I have always been kind of shy and I have no problem in clubs meeting women. That is I usually asked them to dance and we would strike up a conversation and maybe get her number and call. But,in different situations there is where I have a problem. I have noticed this woman who takes my train into the city everyday. And I have to admit,I am attracted to her. But,how do I even approach her? It's not easy getting her attention as she usually likes to sleep on the ride in. Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks

[ghost69]

when she gets on or when you get on, sit near her. ask her if she works/lives near you because you always see her. put your hand out 'how rude of me, i'm mickey by the way. you work downtown?' or wherever it is you are headed.

[RedHotTamale]

Mickey -

 

You just need to initiate a conversation. Just a normal conversation is best - forget cheezy chat up lines.

 

A big smile and an appropriate opener will do. Look around you and comment on something you see.

 

Eg. if she is reading a book say 'I've heard some good things about that book and I was thinking about buying it. Would you recommend it?'

 

if it is pouring with rain, make a comment about the weather.

 

Literally anything will do. All you need is to break the contact and you will be off. If she's not interested in having a conversation with you, she'll let you know subtley by not really engaging with you.

 

If you are super shy and see her every day, start by smiling every day and saying hello. That will do to start with. Once you get some familiarity, you can break into conversation.

 

"It's funny how you see the same people every day, but no one ever speaks to each other. Is everyone very unfriendly do you think or just shy?"

 

If she sleeps, then you need to speak to her when she either gets on or gets off! Just about timing. . .

 

 

And for what it's worth, at your age, I would really forget about meeting women in clubs. Most decent women in the relevant age bracket for you (which would include me and I am alot younger than you!) won't either be in a club at all or if they are, would really take a dim view of the type of man that hits on a woman in a club.

[ghost69]

i forgot, tamale is right, nobody is normal/sane/respectable/etc in a club. so don't go. *sarcastic*

 

those people ALWAYS stay home. ALWAYS!!

[RedHotTamale]

Ghost - I'm not saying *never*. But it is really really unlikely.

 

When you get older, it is harder to meet people and it is about maximizing the odds. The chance of a man in his 50s meeting a long term partner in the right age bracket IN A CLUB is really remote. It's possible but improbable. So it is a better use of your time to go elsewhere if you want a serious relationship.

 

Most slightly older women are really sceptical of men who try to hit on them in clubs and rightly so. It is the haunt of the player and men looking for a quick pick up.

 

Not everyone is like this obviously. But a lot of guys are. So women respond in kind.

[ghost69]

there are 'clubs' out here that cater to a more mature crowd. i've even been to them. they are rather fun. and yes, plenty of really nice people in them.

[Imprecision]

The above advices are wrong. Middle-aged men who live life vigourously always impress me. thereforee, I like you. As someone who picks up women everyday, I'll tell you how it's done.

 

1. Don't use "Where do you work" or "I see you around here everyday" etc. These lines have a minimal chance of working.

 

Think about it this way - The girl doesn't know you. Why would she tell you where she works? On the other hand, it's quite clear that you're hitting on her.

 

The most likely outcome is that she'll brush you off with short, curt answers. Then, she'll stop riding that train.

 

2. Your best bet is the opinion opener:

 

"Hello.

 

This will take only 3 minutes. I want to get your opinion on something.

 

I have a friend. He's very depressed. He's very depressed because he is balding. Because he is balding, he says, 'No woman will want me now. Women aren't attracted to bald men.' But I tell him - 'Women in general find bald men more masculine.' As his friend, I have to encourage him. But I wonder perhaps I'm lying to him. What do you think? Are women in general attracted to bald men?"

 

Note 3 parts:

 

Hello: Getting her attention

False time constraint: Telling her that the interaction lasts only 3 minutes lowers her defenses. Once you're in an interaction, you can extend it as long as you want.

Opinion opener: A conversation topic for you to exhibit your personality, and for her to observe you before deciding whether she is attracted to you

 

3. Your second best bet is the situational opener:

 

"Hello. I can't but wonder - you are fashionably dressed. You have a European air about you. Clearly, you are not from Vancouver."

 

She'll be flattered. She'll be flattered, because your compliment is indirect. You're complimenting her dress, not her. Also, you're not making a lame-ass excuse to speak with her, e.g. "I like your T-shirt." "I like your T-shirt" is a stupid come-on.

 

"Clearly, you are not from Vancouver" segues into her country of origin. If she is indeed from Vancouver, then talk about her travels. You appear attractive because you are worldly.

 

4. Whatever opener you use, observe the following:

 

Speak slowly

Low tonality

Clear, confident voice

Walk slowly

Don't lean in

 

5. All openers take practice. I recommend that you go out with a friend to the park. Then, count how many young women are in the park. Approach all of them using the opinion opener. After ten tries, you will be able to deliver your opener confidently.

 

Then, approach the girl on the train.

[Mickeysant]

Most slightly older women are really sceptical of men who try to hit on them in clubs and rightly so. It is the haunt of the player and men looking for a quick pick up.

 

I'm not looking for a quick pick up. It's just that I thought this woman looked nice and she is from my neighborhood. So,why not try and meet her. That's all. I am Italian and she looks like she could be too. maybe that could be my opening, I don't know.

[ghost69]

^^^^^aren't you having trouble meeting women right now?

 

just say hi mickey. start that off to what i gave you earlier. i wouldn't go with this whole balding business.

[RedHotTamale]

[/i]I'm not looking for a quick pick up. It's just that I thought this woman looked nice and she is from my neighborhood. So,why not try and meet her. That's all. I am Italian and she looks like she could be too. maybe that could be my opening, I don't know.

 

I wasn't suggesting you were - that was why I was saying stay away from CLUBS.

 

I really wouldn't go with the Italian thing. You may have it wrong and she may be offended that you are stereotyping her. A friend of mine who is dark often has people asking her if she is from Spain and it really annoys her.

 

 

As a woman, I agree with Ghost - the balding thing is crazy. It may get her attention but if you are shy you won't be able to pull that off.

 

As for the 'where do you work?' question, if you want to go with that don't ask in those words - ask for a more neutral 'do you work near here?'. Personally, the 'hello' and some comment about seeing her around would do.

 

It's just about making contact and ice breaking.

[Imprecision]

ghost69,

 

Where did you get that idea?

 

Anyway, I normally would not respond to these threads, because I don't want to argue with people who don't know what they're talking about. But I have a good feeling about this guy. So I want to see him succeed.

 

Picking-up women takes work. That's why most people can't do it. To pick up women consistently, you need to invest hundreds of hours. (Btw, picking up women consistently is not the same as picking up a chick every now and then.) I have practised, and I have results.

 

Nevertheless, with some simple instructions, a person can significantly improve his chances at pick-up. Just a few days ago, I was instructing a friend how to pick up a girl. I made him rehearse his line to me. While he was doing that, I pointed out his flaws: speaking too fast, not enough eye contact, etc. I also made him use an opinion opener involving the jealous girlfriend.

 

I didn't think he could pull it off. I was only trying to improve his skills. To my delight and surprise, he got the girl's number in 5 minutes.

 

Note:

 

The "balding" line I've used at least 100 times. Probably way more, because that's one of the first lines I made up and used when I decided to learn the art of pick-up.

 

It's a very good line. If you do it right, the girl will start laughing in the middle, where you say, "My friend says he won't get any woman now, because women aren't attracted to bald men."

 

But you can't pull it off right away. You need to practise at least 10 times beforehand.

[Mickeysant]

Thanks for all your suggestions. I really appreciate the input.

[ManAbout]

This sounds so stupid and contrived. Mickey, if you are the least bit shy, dont do it. It will make you look foolish.

 

Your best bet is to just catch her eye and just smile. Somehow get into her field of vision and when she is looking right at you.. SMILE! Once you have her attention, you can say something. It doesnt have to be very intelligent. You can ask her something as simple as "how was your day?" And then take it from there.. Forget all the the made up openers and contrived lines. Just be natural.

[Imprecision]

If you have never done it - opinion openers sound difficult. But they are actually easy.

 

Consider 2 options:

 

Option 1:

 

You: Hi.

She: Hi.

You: Do you live around here?

She: Yes.

You: Do you work around here? I see you on this train everyday.

She: No, I work downtown.

You: What do you do for a living?

She: I'm an accountant.

 

You keep badgering her for bits and pieces of information. You think you're getting somewhere. In reality, she's annoyed with you. She sees you as just another guy hitting on her. She gets off at the nearest stop. You never see her again.

 

Option 2:

 

You: (Opinion opener.)

She: (Opinion, often long.)

You: (A lot of material to work with. When the topic runs out, tell a story about yourself - something adventurous you've done.)

 

The girl is entertained. She warms up to the conversation. Both you and she enjoy yourselves.

 

If you are sure you'll see her again, don't ask for her number the first time. Instead, terminate the interaction after 2 or 3 conversation topics. The next time you see her, begin with an interesting story about your day. When you're done, tell another attractive story about yourself. After a while, if she seems attracted to you, tell her about an imaginary party of yours. Tell her that you would love for her to go, because she seems to be a smart and interesting person. This way, you get her email. With email, you can invite her out easily.

 

Shyness is not a factor. Women cannot detect "shyness," because "shyness" is defined as refusing social interaction. Women, however, can detect creepiness, which comes through body language, voice, tonality, etc. If you seem nervous, she'll feel nervous. If you seem natural, she'll feel natural. Pick-up is 90% non-verbal communication, 10% verbal communication.

 

The number-one advice I give my apprentices is to speak slowly. If you can speak slowly, you are not shy. Speak as slowly as possible.

[ghost69]

why do i say that? i've seen your other posts.

 

picking up women is work if you make it work. lol @ practice 10 times. then it's a line.

 

what is the girl taking a survey for your friend? 'this will only take 3 minutes.' pfft. think of something else bro.

[ghost69]

what planet are you on? that's how people meet and general conversation starts. i must be an idiot cause it's never NOT worked for me.

[Mickeysant]

Thanks! That sounds like something I would do. I know this isn't rocket science,sometimes the easiest answer is the most obvious. I usually don't say "hello" to someone unless I can catch their eye.

This was meant for ManAbout's suggestion.

[Imprecision]

Ghost69,

 

Hmm...don't exactly know which post you're referring to.

 

I can't argue against strong beliefs deriving from inexperience. If we both knew what we were talking about, we could point to real situations.

 

I can, however, speak from personal experience. Personal experience is picking up women everyday. Personal experience is experimenting with different methods. Personal experience is seeing your game improve gradually. Personal experience is filling in your notebook with numbers and emails - and the joy of having to buy a new notebook, because the previous one has a number on every page.

 

what planet are you on? that's how people meet and general conversation starts. i must be an idiot cause it's never NOT worked for me.

 

Yes - but haven't you noticed that most men are complacent fools who have no game and no options?

[AJ Auteur]

I live in NYC and an uninvited "hello" on a train most times will backfire and turn you into a potential threat in her eyes.

 

The random on the street/pick-up on the commute isn't easy and to do this you would have to instead of working on communicating, work on inviting her to communicate.

 

The fact that she's sleeping on the way in could mean she's tired but usually its a defense against leering and gazing guys who wonder how they can communicate with her on the way to work. If one can't make eye contact one is going to have a difficult time communicating.

 

If you see her often for the next several weeks be totally disinterersted in her but be sure she sees you. Remain indifferent. The familiarity will breed alittle trust to where you can move up to an indifferent nod hello and then carry on. Little steps like that.

[Mickeysant]

Let me just interject here for a minute. What works for you may not work for someone else. What you have said about your methods,well I couldn't see myself doing. Just for the simple fact that I don't want to come off looking like a fool.

 

This was meant for Imprecision's methods.

[Mickeysant]

Sounds good. Am a little leary about coming on too strong at first. But what you have suggested sounds reasonable.

 

This is in response to AJ Auteur

[ghost69]

Ghost69,

 

Hmm...don't exactly know which post you're referring to.

 

I can't argue against strong beliefs deriving from inexperience. If we both knew what we were talking about, we could point to real situations.

 

I can, however, speak from personal experience. Personal experience is picking up women everyday. Personal experience is experimenting with different methods. Personal experience is seeing your game improve gradually. Personal experience is filling in your notebook with numbers and emails - and the joy of having to buy a new notebook, because the previous one has a number on every page.

 

 

 

Yes - but haven't you noticed that most men are complacent fools who have no game and no options?

 

did you just say i'm inexperienced?

 

haha.

 

i'm mr miyagi.

 

well, keep up with your experiments then. hopefully you will end up with more than numbers in some notebook. who keeps a notebook anyways?

[Imprecision]

Mickeysant,

 

I wish you the best and everything.

 

I speak with the authority of experience. On the other hand, it's your life, after all.

 

-You should experiment by practising on other girls. If you can't even get other girls' phone numbers, how can you get this particular girl's phone number?

 

Again, just a few days ago - my friend, who is the sorriest-looking guy ever - nervous twitch, jumpy manners, hair-gell dripping off his hair, skinny, small (He is my friend, so I shouldn't say this, but his appearance reeks of failure) - used an opinion opener. I coached him for five minutes. Then he got the number in five minutes. Even I was surprised. I was looking from 30 metres away. The girl was laughing so hard. She touched him on the arm.

 

(btw, his opener was, "Hello, you look interesting. I want your opinion on something. I have friend who's friends with his ex. His gf is angry." And then the follow-up was "My friend also has a shoebox full of his ex's photos. And then the gf burnt it, because she was so mad.")

 

If my friend could do it, any guy can do it.

 

-The problem with "Hi, my name is..." or "Hi, I see a lot around here" or "Hi, I like your T-shirt" is that these are obvious come-ons. Women think differently from men. From your perspective, you're making a non-committal remark. It has no sexual reference. From a woman's perspective - why would you speak with her unless you want to sleep with her?

 

These lines don't even have the benefits of the direct approach, which is daring and bold, e.g. "You're cute. I know this comment is random. I know that it's strange for you to have a guy come up to you to say hello. But I realised I would be kicking myself if I didn't speak with you. So hi." (Segue immediately into a story. Don't ask simple questions.)

 

Prefer daring and bold to wussy and amateurish, e.g.

 

"You look stylish. You are fashionably dressed. Clearly, you cannot be from Vancouver." vs. "I like your T-shirt."

 

With the former, you can segue directly into stories. You can also convey your worldliness. With the latter, she'll say, "Thanks," and then walk away.

 

Do you see the difference?

 

-The opinion opener is the best bet for the newbie. I'm not a master of pick-up. I'm a mere student. But I'm a student who has done his work and harvested his fruits. And I have coached enough guys to know what works and what doesn't.

 

Again, my sorry-looking friend used to do "Hi, I've seen you around..." That's just foolish. The girl will brush you off with polite remarks. Secretly, she'll hate you. She wants you to leave as soon as possible. Once in a blue moon, you might get lucky with that line. Since some guys do get lucky on the rare occasion, they think they're pick-up masters. Then this amateurish tactic survives.

 

-There's a 90/10 rule to pick-ups. That means during the first 5 minutes, the girl is not warmed up to your conversation. At this point, she's evaluating you. She needs to see that you're friendly, fun, and not creepy. You must supply 90% of the conversation during the first 5 minutes. Otherwise, awkward silence will set in.

 

I myself can pull off "I like your T-shirt" and "I've seen you around." This is because I've done so many pick-ups that I can smoothly transition into a good conversation even with a sketchy opener. Most guys cannot pull this off consistently. They're far better sticking with opinion openers as newbies.

 

If you have to do "I like your T-shirt," do this:

 

"Hi, I like your T-shirt. I like your T-shirt, because...(long, funny reason conveying attractive qualities about yourself)" This satisfies the 90/10 rule.

 

"Hi, I've seen you around. I'm telling you this, because I think people in general don't say hello to strangers enough these days. We live in an impersonal society. I think it was Walt Whitman who said - if I see you, and you see me, why shouldn't I speak with you? Anyway, I want to practise my conversation skills. So let me ask you, 'How was your day today?'"

 

-Anyway, I doubt you'll benefit from my explanations. But maybe some guy here will benefit. If I can motivate one guy to do one opinion opener, then I'm happy.

[ghost69]

i'm not even going to comment.

[Imprecision]

Ghost69,

 

Look - we're both guys. I know you're a good guy. I hope you think I'm good guy. I don't want to start an argument with you.

 

I speak from my personal experience. I can do no more. Some guys aren't interested in learning to pick up women. That's okay.

 

As for me, I'm good at pick-ups. I'm good at pick-ups, because I've invested time and effort. I shouldn't post too many pick-up posts on ena, since most people don't appreciate them. But sometimes, you see a guy, and you know exactly what he needs - you really want him to succeed. You know the feeling?

 

It's the same with any art - like martial arts. You see a guy. He's doing his forms all wrong. You want to help him. You want to tell him how to do it right. Right?

 

There's a way to doing everything. If you want to learn kungfu, you have to master the horse-stance perfectly. If you don't master the horse-stance, if you don't invest the time and effort, then your strikes will always be weak.

 

When I practise pick-ups, I don't want a gf, a casual fling, or get laid. I treat pick-ups as a science and an art. By "science," I mean systematic knowledge. By "art," I mean something which requires practice and application. Most guys everywhere don't care about their pick-up skills. They just want to get laid or to get a gf. thereforee, our attitudes are bound to differ. Perhaps these different starting points give conflicting views.