Need second opinion from non-religious audience

[punk_bf]

I posted this question to a catholic website because it has some specific questions about catholicism. The answers I got back were crazy and not very helpful. So, I'd like to re-post the question here and get a second opinion. I had an earlier issue that some people might remember that had to do with guilt over how I had treated an ex. People on this forum were very helpful.

 

I am an atheist man who is 15 years married to a catholic woman who I will call J. We have two children - K who is a teen and L who is a toddler.

 

When I met J she told me that she was raised Catholic, but didn't practice anymore. This seemed OK to me as I was raised in a family that sometimes attended church (not catholic though). I enjoyed going to church as a teen mostly because the youth group was a good place to meet girls, but I always felt like the "believing in God" and praying were very fake. So, when J told me she wasn't practicing, I figured she just hadn't gotten around to fully embracing the idea of atheism yet.

 

After we had been dating for a short time, she moved in with me and soon she became pregnant. I was scared (I was 23, J was 25), but I wanted to marry her and take care of our child. So, I asked J to marry me and we did so at the county court house. No one attended our wedding, but I didn't care. I had a beautiful pregnant wife who I loved very much. She gave birth to a beautiful baby girl who I'll call K. K has always been the apple of my eye and love of my life from the moment she was born.

 

J and I did start to have some problems, though. She was depressed after the pregnancy and she hated being stuck at home with K. I was in graduate school at the time and I rearranged my schedule so that J could take classes at the community college. She also wanted to go back to work so she started working at a local bar. I was often alone with K which was fine, but J and I often fought bitterly.

 

Eventually the school year was over. I graduated and we moved to another state for my first job. J hated our new city (so did I for that matter). It was hot and depressing. She hated being shut in the apartment all day with K. She hated the long hours I worked. We fought worse than ever. Plus, I wasn't earning that much money and we had a hard time paying our bills.

 

Eventually J told me that she wanted a job. I got her a job working for my company which I liked because it let us eat lunch together and go to work together. I thought it was bringing us closer. K had to be in day care. Unfortunately, J's boss was kind of a jerk to her and mistreated her. So, J decided to quit and take a different job working in a restaurant which was more to her liking. This made things harder because we were always having car problems. We were both complete jerks to each other. When I had the only running car, I would often refuse to drive her places. When she had the only running car, she did the same thing.

 

Sometimes we would literally spit in each others' faces. Another time, she ripped my prescription eye glasses from my face, dropped them onto the pavement, and stomped them. I promptly went inside, got her makeup box, and threw it into a dumpster.

 

One morning when J had the only running car, I needed a ride to work and I was yelling at her to hurry up getting ready. She refused to give me a ride, so I went outside and got in her car and refused to get out of it. So, she called the police, told them I had tried to strangle her, and I was arrested. My boss had to come bail me out. It was no fun.

 

She also started dating other men. I remember once being in a parking garage and she was attempting to drive off to meet another man for a date. She told me that she wanted a divorce and that our marriage was over. I got down on my knees in front of her car and I cried and pleaded with her to reconsider. She stuck her head out of the window and told me I was making a fool of myself. I refused to move and just kept pleading. Eventually she backed up and drove off the other way.

 

After that, I bought a reliable car, withdrew from J emotionally, and just concentrated on taking care of K. I didn't see J much during that time. I would wake up, get K ready for day care, drive her to day care, drop her off, go to work, leave work, pick up K, take her home, make dinner for her, play with her, put her to bed, then get up and do it again the next day. On the weekends mostly K and I were alone. When J did come home, she would go into her bedroom and close the door. Sometimes she did take K out for the afternoon. During that time, J did acknowledge that I was a good dad, but said that I was a terrible husband and she felt nothing for me. I was afraid she would divorce me and I wouldn't have K with me anymore.

 

One weekend, she didn't come home for several days. K asked me where mommy was. I didn't know and I was getting worried about her. I called the police and they told me to try calling the morgues. So, I was about an hour into my task of calling the morgues when J walked in the door. She had been out taking LSD with some people she knew from a bar. I was so relieved to see her that I couldn't even be mad.

 

That was probably the low point. I decided that things had to get better - one way or the other. So, I sat down and drew up a budget that would allow us to pay all of our bills and live comfortably and computed the salary I would need. I decided to start a job search so that we could move to another city that we would like better. When J came home, I sat her down at our kitchen table and presented this idea to her. I told her I would give her a while to decide if she wanted to be my wife.

 

For the next month or so, we continued to live together, not fight as much and tried to spend a little time together with K. J later told me that one day she was in the bar and she thought to herself "my husband isn't so bad - why am I throwing away my family just to sit in a bar and drink?" She came home and told me she would like to work on making things better.

 

We set a family project to find a job and move to a new city. When recruiters would call, I would put them on hold, call J on the other line and ask her about the city, she would say yes or no. Eventually we decided on a job in a city that we both liked.

 

On the day of the move, I drove a moving van with K. J drove our car. We had walkie-talkies to coordinate our travel. We made a long drive accross the country, stopping at campgrounds to save money. Eventually we came to our new city. I started work. J found us an apartment nearby. J, K, and I started attending mass every week. J told me that she needed me there just to hold the baby and I said OK. I wanted to give J space to be able to take communion and pray without a crying baby. Eventually we got our finances under control and bought a house. We started attending mass regularly near out house (which was in a different parish than the apartment). J started seeing a psychiatrist and slowly the two of us started to learn to love each other again.

 

One day J told me that she was listening to Catholic radio and found out that our marriage was not valid in the eyes of the church. I said, "I'm not Catholic and our marriage is perfectly valid to me, but if it would make you feel better to have the church do whatever it is they do, then I guess that is OK." J met with the priest and came back and told me we couldn't have sex anymore until our "convalidation". I thought, "what kind of crazy religion is this?" but I said OK. At this point we had been married maybe 7 years. So, we took some tests and talked to the priest. J told me that we had to go through a thing called a "marriage encounter". The encounter itself was an unexpectedly long and intense weekend. It seemed to be geared towards couples that were on the brink of divorce which we weren't. During one part of it, though, J confessed to me that she had sex with many, many men while we were married. I was not completely surprised, but it was hard to deal with. I had taken our vows of fidelity seriously. J asked me to forgive her and I did.

 

After the convalidation we were able to have sex again (yeah!) and things got back to a newer, more gentle and loving normal. We started talking about maybe having another child. I wanted another child, J didn't. But she said that she would be OK with whatever happens and she would not use contraception. The biggest problem we had during that period was that I had started snoring very, very loud and J banished me to another part of the house where I had to sleep alone. Also, K got older and didn't need to be supervised as much at Church, so I quit going. I got to sleep in on Sundays and then meet J and K for breakfast after Church. (I liked sleeping in and I liked breakfast out so this was OK by me.)

 

Eventually I lost my job because my company went out of business and we moved to yet another city. This time it was easier because my new company really rolled out the red carpet to get us to relocate. We bought a house immediately in the new city and J became pregnant again. We were so happy! However, when she was two months pregnant, she started to bleed heavily. We called an ambulance and J went to the hospital. They told her that she was going to have a miscarriage. We were both devastated. J asked me to call a priest which I did for her. The hospital stabilized her and sent her home. They told her to call when she started to miscarry. She stayed in bed very still and K and I cared for her. A few days later she had an appointment with her physician and we were pleased to hear that things looked OK and she might very well carry the child to term. We were thrilled. We were very careful with her health and eventually she gave birth to a healthy little girl, L.

 

I started attending church very regularly so that I could be the one to hold L during the service. L is almost two and we still do that.

 

I love J very very much. She and our two daughters are everything to me. K attends a catholic grade school and will start high school in about a year. Our plan is for her to attend a catholic high school.

 

So, now that you know about us, I want to ask your advice on a couple of issues.

 

We are friendly with people at our church. I don't try to hide the fact that I am non-catholic, but I generally don't come right out and say that I'm an atheist. I like our priests very much. They are nice men and they are nice to me and I like most of the sermons. Sometimes, though, in their sermons they say that atheists are bad or ignorant people. It makes me a little sad inside to hear that from the priests and other people in the church. I'm sure they aren't doing it to hurt my feelings. They are doing it because sometimes the way to bring about group cohesion is to portray the group as superior in some way to an "out group". Atheists are kind of a popular "out group" in America right now. Plus, the definition of an atheist is pretty much the opposite of what it means to be a religious person, so the people in our church probably see atheists as "the enemy" even if I don't feel like they are my enemy. I know this and I'm OK with it. At least people can't tell I'm an atheist by looking at me and I have a choice whether to tell people. J does not like me to tell people I'm an atheist and tells me that I'm not "really" an atheist which I guess is her way of saying that she loves me and considers me part of her group. She doesn't like me to read books about atheism or from an atheist point of view. One time I had an atheism magazine and she destroyed it and told me it was "like pornography".

 

I like the people in the church and I like most aspects of the Catholic church. I think it is a mostly good organization that mostly promotes good things. J's faith has undeniably helped her to be a better wife and inspired me to be a better husband. One question I have is whether you have to actually believe in God in order to join. I tried to ask our pastor this once but he told me that he was too busy to talk to me and gave me the schedule of classes for converting from other denominations. I don't think I would want to jump right into the classes until I had decided whether it was OK. I don't want to lie to people and say that I believe things I don't believe. The reason I would want to join is purely because I know it would make J very happy. I honestly don't know how anyone does believe the crazy things in the bible.

 

Recently I've been asked to help with collection baskets. I don't know if the head usher who asked me knows that I'm not catholic. I know that the collection has some kind of spiritual significance - but I don't know if catholics would consider it blasphemous for an atheist to handle the collection basket. I'm afraid to ask.

 

The same thing goes for cleaning the church. J volunteered us to clean the church and I didn't mind doing it. In fact, I thought it was kind of fun. But again, I want to have some kind of clear idea as to what the line is between what I should and should not do as a non-catholic.

 

Also when it comes time for communion, I just stay seated and hold L. There are women who come up to me and say that they would hold L so that I can go and take communion. I don't know what to say to them.

 

Then there is one other issue. J does not want to have any more children. I am OK with not having any more children, but I would also be OK with having more. But J is very firm that she doesn't want any. However, she wants to use "natural family planning" to avoid children and that means that she will only have sex with me two days per month (and not even spaced out either). I do not consider this acceptable. I have offered to compromise by either: using condoms or any other form of contraception of her choice, engaging in sex acts which do not include vaginal sex, or getting a vasectomy. J has told me that none of these options are acceptable to the church. Why is this?

 

Also, J won't kiss me passionately because she says it will tempt her to have sex which she doesn't want to do because she doesn't want to become pregnant. I don't like this either.

 

I did get treated for sleep apnea. It was a very hard thing for me to get used to the CPAP mask because I felt like I was choking whenever I had it on for about the first year. J told me that if I did not get used to it, she would ask me to move out of our house, but that if I did get used to it she would be able to sleep with me. Now that I am used to it, she won't sleep with me because the air blows on the back of her neck and the machine makes a soft noise. I don't like sleeping alone because it makes me feel sad, lonely, and isolated.

 

I see three options. Either she can compromise with me by at least having sex with me more often, or I can take a mistress, or I can divorce her and marry someone who is more reasonable. I don't think taking a mistress is a serious option because I am really a family man at heart and I don't like dishonesty. However, the option of divorcing her after all we have been through, and considering all of the pain that it would put our children through just doesn't seem acceptable to me either.

 

What should I do?

[notsoanonymous]

Oh my.

 

What should you do? About which part? I actually (shockingly) read the entire story.

 

On what are you asking advice? And BTW I ALSO have sleep apnea and wear a CPAP so I know how annoying and frustrating that can be.

 

Be more specific and I can try to help - just remember that there can be no "religious debate" here or the thread will get closed.

[greensleeves]

There are many Cahtolics who use birth control. Could you speak to a priest from the church and get their opinion on it? Maybe she's using the religious beliefs as an excuse not to have sex with you.

[caro33]

Your post has really thrown me; I am not sure why you told us so much about the history of your relationship when what you are asking are questions about what level of sex life you should be able to enjoy. To be honest, when I had read about half of your post I could not believe there was ever a second child - the behaviour you both exhibited sounded pretty awful.

 

I suppose you told us the whole story so we could see why divorce is not an option, but to be honest, for me the background just confirmed that this is a tumultuous relationship and that there is a fair degree of disordered behaviour in its history.

 

Her Catholic beliefs are almost beside the point to me: what you have is a basic values conflict. It's much easier to find an answer, the problem is living with the answer you chose.

 

The salient parts of your post, to me, are:

 

 

 

So it's: (a) you live with it, (b) she changes, or © divorce. I can't really see anything else as an option. I guess there are pros and cons to each - have you weighed them up, and if so, how do they compare? How do you trade off divorce against less sex? Does she understand the consequences of her choice by the way?

[Angel_baby]

Reading your whole story, you really drew me into it. There is one thing I want to point out to you:

 

Life is to short.

 

I don't find any of your wifes demands (that is what they are) to be reasonable. She won't even compromise on things that should be talked about fairly.

 

Also 2 happy separate parents are better then two miserable unhappy married parents. Never stay together just for the kids.

 

This relationship reeks of unhealthiness. You deserve to be happy. Have you ever thought you were just staying because it is something you know and are familiar with? Change can be scary, the prospect of being single again may be overwhelming, etc. This results in using the marriage as a security blanket. Where you just think "it is better to stay then face what the change can bring".

 

Change isn't always bad.

[big greg]

I grew up just like K did, forced to go to mass every sunday until i was 18, went to private catholic schooling all the way up to high school. I can tell you that what your wife is saying about having sex more than 2 times a month not being acceptable by the chuch is 100% pure BS after you've had your wedding blessed by the church. No offense, but it sounds like she is developing that cafeteria catholic mentality, and that is NOT good because people like that usually become very selfish and closed minded. That's the mindset that was pretty much drilled into me when I was younger, and when I got to public high school and started to make my own decisions, I was like... "holy crap, ive been missing out on alot".

 

One thing, though, I think the notion of divorce might be a little premature on your part right now. When I went through some hard times with my parents, both my mom and dad told me i mean the world to them and that they would do anything for me, and it just clicked. Do you love your children enough that you would do anything for them? Alot of people will tell you that you deserve to be happy, but do you love your children enough to put your children's happiness before your own? I think that's the reason the divorce rate is so high, is because people are less willing to sacrifice a little personal happiness for the good of the whole.

[aname]

I don't know anything about Catholicism, but your wife's understanding of "natural" family planning does not seem complete...

 

she wants to use "natural family planning" to avoid children and that means that she will only have sex with me two days per month (and not even spaced out either). I do not consider this acceptable.

 

Here is a good link on fertility awareness as a method of family planning, including the basics of how it works, and its effectiveness: link removed

 

She should have 2+ weeks per month of sex-safe days, not 2 days. If she's dead set on "natural" family planning, and only having sex half the month is okay with you, have her consult a doctor to learn how to chart her hormone levels properly.

 

 

Side note: I think your desire to be both honest about what you believe, and respectful of their religion and its boundaries is extremely admirable. I hope you manage to find boundaries everyone's comfortable with, without being pressured to believe crazy things. Best of luck.

[tina-rocks]

Hi Punk,

 

Only me!

 

As I already know about your background threads I can see easily what you are trying to say regarding the situation and the specifics of Catholic versus Atheist.

 

It's an eclectic mix as she has a faith and you do not believe in faith essentially and heres why:

 

1) Atheists are people who do not believe in a god or gods (or other immaterial beings), or who believe that these concepts are not meaningful. Some atheists put it more firmly and believe that god or gods do not exist.

 

2) Catholics believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, of all that is, seen and unseen. One Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. Salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man.

 

This can cause a series of problems in relationships.

 

Your chosen path's (faith if you like) are a strong part of who you both are and in order for you to deal with them your entire relationship to sex the upbringing of your children your entire life together all have to be talked about in order to reach your goal. (Thats for you both to be happy) You also have to agree on these things jointly. Living in a life which is full of your own compromise but none of J's will only serve to cause you more pain.

 

Take time out and as long as you both understand these things you should be able to come up with a reasonable way of handling the situation. Your love for her will see you through. You are a strong person.

 

I wish you all the luck with this you deserve it.

 

Tina x

[punk_bf]

One option that I see is that I could just go get the vasectomy and then tell her what I did. She would probably be angry, but do you think she would get over it?

 

I asked her about it and she said she would never want to be with me again if I did that. But maybe its a case of easier to ask forgiveness than permission.

[Catdancer]

Why is she being so controlling and dominating? What is causing it? Is she trying to push you away by being so domineering so that you will be the one to leave? Right now, I would not even worry about the church, I'd focus my energy on figuring out if this marriage is something that you want to stay in. I always get blasted for this on here, but here goes. My bf and I started seeing each other while he was living with his ex and his daughter. He could not decide what to do. He wanted to stay with them for his child, even though there was no relationship left with his ex. And he tried this. It would last for a week or so, then he'd be back with me. We love each other. And him being so miserable and depressed was no life for him or his daughter. It made the whole living situation with them unbearable, especially for his daughter...constant fighting, name calling, cold shoulders, silent treatments..."Daddy, why is mommy mad at you all the time?"..."Mommy, why is Daddy so sad?" He made the decision to live separately from them. His ex and daughter moved in with his mom. They are looking for a place of their own, but for now, his daughter is very happy where she is. She has her big family around, her friends, cousins, her dad is part of her life and she spends time with him.

 

My point is that sometimes doing the best for you IS doing what's best for the children. I'm a firm believer in looking out for yourself. You have a marriage in the eyes of the church, you have a dictatorship in the eyes of your wife, and you are in a living hell. I personally could not live under the "rules" that your wife has set forth. If she is unbending and unwilling to compromise, there is no relationship, she killed it with a lack of sympathy, lack of respect, compromise and genuine care for her partner. You are not her partner by the way, you are her roommate, babysitter and flunky. I'm sorry but that's what I get from your post.

 

 

Regarding your question about having a vasectomy and not telling her...I think it's a big mistake, and one that you'll regret. It's like she's just tempting you to break one of her "rule" so that she can say...ok...it's over.

[punk_bf]

Also 2 happy separate parents are better then two miserable unhappy married parents. Never stay together just for the kids.

 

Angel: We don't fight anymore. The girls have a very happy home. I really love my wife. I believe she loves me. Its just that since L was born, J has been trying to avoid pregnancy and because of that we have very little physical and emotional intimacy.

 

I don't think divorce or infidelity are serious options. I think it is really just a choice between being satisfied with what we have, or making some changes.

 

Greg said "it sounds like she is developing that cafeteria catholic mentality" which might be true. One other thing that has bothered me about our relationship is that J has been listening to right wing talk radio and becoming very mean and hard hearted towards certain groups of people - immigrants and homosexuals.

 

I've been trying to use points from Catholicism and things that the priests say to try to remind her to be more loving and understanding towards others.

 

We did both vote for the same presidential candidate, Ron Paul, but I think she really wanted to vote for Mitt Romney and only voted for RP because I was volunteering for his campaign.

[punk_bf]

Why is she being so controlling and dominating? What is causing it? Is she trying to push you away by being so domineering so that you will be the one to leave?

 

I don't think so. I think she just likes to get her way on things.

 

I always get blasted for this on here, but here goes. My bf and I started seeing each other while he was living with his ex and his daughter. He could not decide what to do. He wanted to stay with them for his child, even though there was no relationship left with his ex. And he tried this. It would last for a week or so, then he'd be back with me. We love each other.

 

I won't blast you for it. I am glad you have found happiness and I hope that the child is well taken care of. And that the ex-wife finds happiness too.

 

But, I don't think I would be able to find anyone else if weren't with J.

 

My point is that sometimes doing the best for you IS doing what's best for the children. I'm a firm believer in looking out for yourself.

 

I think K and L need J and me to be together and to be loving and kind to each other. That's what I want too.

 

You have a marriage in the eyes of the church, you have a dictatorship in the eyes of your wife, and you are in a living hell. I personally could not live under the "rules" that your wife has set forth. If she is unbending and unwilling to compromise, there is no relationship, she killed it with a lack of sympathy, lack of respect, compromise and genuine care for her partner. You are not her partner by the way, you are her roommate, babysitter and flunky.

 

I think that at one time this was definitely true. I'm not sure how true this is anymore.

[Catdancer]

Judging by your responses you dont want to leave the marriage, your wife wont compromise, you're stuck...what exactly are you asking here?

[greensleeves]

My point is that sometimes doing the best for you IS doing what's best for the children. I'm a firm believer in looking out for yourself. You have a marriage in the eyes of the church, you have a dictatorship in the eyes of your wife, and you are in a living hell. I personally could not live under the "rules" that your wife has set forth. If she is unbending and unwilling to compromise, there is no relationship, she killed it with a lack of sympathy, lack of respect, compromise and genuine care for her partner. You are not her partner by the way, you are her roommate, babysitter and flunky. I'm sorry but that's what I get from your post.QUOTE]

 

I agree with this. As Dr. Phil says "Children would rather be FROM a broken home rather than IN a broken home" It sounds like you have tried beyond what most people could handle. She's admitted to sleeping with many, many men in the past during your marriage, and that was supposed to be okay, because it was what worked for her at the time. Now she's withholding sex because it's what works for her now. Staying isn't always the best thing for children...it teaches them that it's okay to remain unhappy in a one sided, unhealthy relationship. Is that what you'd want for them when they grow up?

 

In addition, using natural birth control should allow you to have sex for more than two days per month...there would be about two weeks of "safe" days, so as I said in my previous post, I believe she's using this as an excuse to withhold sex from you.

 

The whole athiest question isn't even relevant as far as I'm concerned...you're both entitled to your own beliefs. A healthy couple would recognize that and learn to make compromises if they wanted the marriage to work. It seems like the only one who has ever made compromises in this marriage is you. If you don't feel comfortable bringing around the collection basket, don't do it. You can tell them you're an athiest or not, it's none of their business. If you want to have sex more often, research natural birth control and present your findings to her...see how she reacts. The point is, you have to develop a backbone and stop allowing her to walk all over you. Sorry.

[punk_bf]

Judging by your responses you dont want to leave the marriage, your wife wont compromise, you're stuck...what exactly are you asking here?

 

Maybe there is nothing I can do except live with it. Its better than it used to be.

[tina-rocks]

I know you love her!

[Circe]

Answer to Qn 1

 

Yes you can join without believing in God. That's the beauty of being an athiest - you don't believe in religious consequences to your actions or follow religious laws - so as far as religion goes, you can do anything you want. I doubt a catholic would see it that way - but you can do anything you want.

 

Answer to Qn 2

 

Divorce her and try to get joint custody if you want it. She's put you through enough and she can't put you through intimacy deprivation on top. If she would do other intimate things with you - it would be different.

 

Your kids will cope. Kids are very resiliant.

[Circe]

I don't think divorce or infidelity are serious options. I think it is really just a choice between being satisfied with what we have, or making some changes.

 

 

I didnt realise there was an option #4, Punk: "live with it".

 

Accepting it wasnt in your first list of options...

[ladyblue07]

One question I have is whether you have to actually believe in God in order to join.

I can tell you right now that the priest would not like it if you admitted you don't really believe in any of the Catholic theology. You are supposed to sincerely believe in the whole God stuff. Yes, hard as it may be for an atheist to believe, a lot of religious people actually do believe in that stuff.

Whether it's worth it to you to pretend to be someone you're not for the social benefits of belonging to the church is another question entirely.

Personally, I would not want to hide my true beliefs like that. (I was raised Catholic and am dating an atheist, for the record. Even though I think of myself as mildly religious, I am 100% okay with his atheism, since I understand that he is not a bad or immoral person, just someone who sees the world in a different way).

 

I am OK with not having any more children, but I would also be OK with having more.

Based on this, I would recommend not getting a vasectomy. You have no idea what the future holds for you. If your marriage did end for some reason, you might regret not having the option of starting over with someone else.

 

 

she wants to use "natural family planning" to avoid children and that means that she will only have sex with me two days per month (and not even spaced out either).

I think most Catholics would say that she is being extreme by only allowing sex two days a month. I KNOW that most Catholic couples who use NFP have sex more often than that.

However, it is true that in Catholic theology, natural family planning is considered the only morally acceptable way to avoid pregnancy. You will never convince someone that is very devoted to Catholicism that it's okay to use condoms or get sterilized, because it really isn't according to the morals of their religion.

The Catholic reasoning on this issue is complicated, but the simplest way I can think of to explain it is that they believe that all sex acts have two purposes: 1) to bring the couple closer together ("unitive") AND 2) to be open to the creation of life ("procreative"). Any sex act that gets in the way of either of those two goals (artificial contraception gets in the way of the "procreative" purpose) is immoral in their view. NFP is okay in their view because it allows the possibility of a pregnancy, of being "open" to the gift of a baby from God, even if you aren't actively trying to get pregnant.

 

 

However, the option of divorcing her after all we have been through, and considering all of the pain that it would put our children through just doesn't seem acceptable to me either.

I think this situation sounds really hard to live with and if I were you I would definitely not be happy either. Personally, I think a divorce would be easier for your kids to cope with than if they discovered you were having an affair. If they ever find out you cheated on their mom, guess who they will consider the bad guy? You'll be the bad guy, even though you had very good reasons for being unhappy about the relationship!

For that reason, I would seriously consider trying to end things relatively amicably before you end up getting tempted to cheat with someone else.

 

I'm sure you've heard the term "Throwing good money after bad". Staying with someone you're unhappy with just because you've already invested a lot of time in things is not going to pay off. I bet if you talk to a lot of people who have been through divorces, a lot of them would say they wish they had made the break sooner rather than putting it off out of fear of the unknown.

 

You seem like a good guy who has good intentions. I am sure you can find someone out there who wants the same things you want from a relationship and even believes the same things you do.

As an atheist, you know this life is our only shot. Sticking it out with someone who is acting selfish and crazy is not going to earn you a spot in a magical blissful heaven. So why waste your one shot at life being unhappy?

[DaBladeRoden]

Greg said "it sounds like she is developing that cafeteria catholic mentality" which might be true. One other thing that has bothered me about our relationship is that J has been listening to right wing talk radio and becoming very mean and hard hearted towards certain groups of people - immigrants and homosexuals.

 

I wonder what her opinions of premarital sexuals, LSD users, and repeat adulterers are?

[ljoy74]

From my attemptive "nonreligious" point of view-

There seems to be so many differences in the two of you that opposites didn't attract, they fought. But in my plain old opinion you should stay together for the benefit and sake of your children. You've got 2 beautiful girls to think about. They're going to remember how you treated your wife. And remember- daughters look for husbands like there fathers. As for the sex issue I would suggest going to counseling together. Marriage without sex has got to be horrible. I know I would simply lose my MIND! I will admit she does need to be more reasonable with you. Marriage is compromise and she should work with you on ANY health issues as opposed to run from them or boss you around about them. She needs to be your partner, so keep trying to be hers.

Hope any of that helped at all.