WHERE ARE ALL THE GOOD MEN??? *warning may offend some*

[SweetypieEnlightenedOne]

I have really had it up to here with men and there no good ways. I am so up to here with it. I don't understand why men can't grow up for a minute. What is it about a married man or a boyfriend that makes him treat a good woman like a dog? Actually worse then a dog.

I want to know from men and women here on the forum what you think the darn problem is. And how it can be solved. When a man gets married or a boyfriend gets comfortable he becomes complacent in the relationship and just wrecks shop. Men forget to 1. Be Romantic 2. Be faithful, 3. Find there clothing or socks 4. How to Iron, 5. Last in bed 6.Dress Nice..so on and so on? I really want to know what the problem is!!

 

 

*BEFORE I GET REAMED, THIS IS NOT DIRECTED TO ALL MEN JUST 75% THE OTHER 25 % GET ALL MY RESPECT and keep up the good work*

*P.S. I KNOW, I KNOW WOMEN DO THIS TOO, BUT THIS IS MY POST AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT WOMEN THIS TIME...I'LL GET TO THAT LATER OK? *

[Self Discoverer]

Hi SweetyPie

 

I can understand your frustration.

 

In many ways I was on the opposite end of all this. I adored my ex, was caring, romantic, considerate, respectful of her and in the end it didn't change anything. She 'fell out of love' with me and dumped me. It didn't matter how well I treated her. The opposite is true with loving somebody who treats you badly.

 

The problem is that love for somebody is not altered by the way that your significant other treats you. A lot of men ( and women for that matter) know that they can get away with being a complete slob and that once they've got their feet under the table it will give their partner a lot of heartache for them to up sticks and leave them.

 

Don't worry, we're not all like that and there are guys who respect ther fairer sex.

If you're speaking from experience, hang in there SweetyPie. Kiss enough frogs and one day your prince will come.

[bubbamackdaddy69]

You may have a point in a way but not all men are like that. My ex of 4 months ago was like that in a way. I have to admit I wasn't the most romantic and I guess she was but I did all the cleaning,laundry,dressed nice and was faithful. Not all guys are like that maybe just the one's you've dated

[SweetypieEnlightenedOne]

I can already see the innuendo's and reaming coming. If you are offended by this post then maybe your in the 75% I'm talking about and the truth hurts. I already said that there are good men out there 25%. I can tell men are sensitive and get all offended. Like there perfect and never hurt anyone. SelfDiscover..I liked your post and I can tell from your "what five things do you like about yourself" that your in that 25%. However to the other poster, I didn't post this about me, actually I posted this about a few other women I know. Oh lets say about 10 who's men just wont act right. And these are faithful good women. Women who deserve a guy like you SelfD. Keep the posts coming.

 

P.S This post is not only about a few men I've dated but for all of the good women out there who are being treated bad just because a man thinks he can get away with it!

[Blue_Soul]

I have to chuckle when I read posts like this. I don't know you so I'm not going to ream you but I'd just like to go on the record and say that many women (my age, anyhow - I'm 25) push 'nice guys' away and go for the jerk types you mention. I'm a nice guy and I've been single practically all of my life becuase of it. I lose girls I care for very much to the type of guy you described all the time. And yet, here I am reading your plea for guys to be sweet and romantic. You all frustrate the hell out of us just like we all frustrate the hell out of you.

[SweetypieEnlightenedOne]

You know what I think? (I think no one is reading my post all the way because if they did there would be no way they could miss what i put in big letters. "i'll get to the women later" I know men are not all bad, I know women arent all good, My post is to get answers from the not so good men as to why the do what they do. Maybe this will clear things up a bit.

[avman]

It is a real shame that you are so bitter and angry that you can only see the bad things. I'm sure you will not believe me when I say that if you only go looking for the bad characteristics or the evil people out there then thats all you will ever find. Yes, of course they are out there. And so are the problematic women as you point out.

 

The problem is I think you are lumping careless partners into the same category as the truly nasty ones. There is a difference. Careless partners can be rehabilitated and "trained" if you will to become better partners.

 

You see, we men are clueless. You should know this by now. Yes we get complacent and lazy, but we need to be educated in this. We don't do it to hurt you. We are clueless that if we did a load of laundry that it would mean a LOT to our partner. Or that we need to keep up the flowers, the romance, the things that sweep our partner off their feet.

 

So I suggest that this is a process of education for us men. This is not for the uncaring, disrespectful ones. Just for the ones who have lost focus. Yelling about it just makes people tune out. If your partner has lost focus, but still loves you then keep guiding them in the right direction. Its an ongoing process.

[nmarchildon]

hey... good topic. i was just wondering that myself. i have been with my boyfriend for 8 months and its like i do everything to please him... i mean massages every night and going out to dinner and he takes me for granted hardcore. since i have been with him he has made me jealous because he knows im inclined to get that way and has caused my confidence to go down a great deal. but you know what? it wasn't always like that. and i really do still love him. actually i am trying to think of myself for once in this relationship and its hard, and i hurts. i want it to work bad between us. how do i make it work. do i play hard and play games to let him on that i dont care.... man im just not like that. i want to love someone and be loved to the max. thats all i want from life right now.

nat.

please help.... i hate my situation, it hurts

[SweetypieEnlightenedOne]

I wonder if there is just one person who can stop trying to make it seem like this is all just my point of view. I noticed no women have responded yet just the men. Maybe then no one will assume this was written about just me. To be more specific this was written about one woman in particular. She posted something about her husband and it troubled me. I want to know why men do this to women. I don't think I said "I HATE YOU MEN" I guess people only hear what they want. I will take this post down because honestly I"m irritated that no one can answer my questions with out trying to say "sweetypie,your views are whats bad" because this is not just my view. Maybe I'm the only one with the guts to speak out about it.

[routerx]

I think it's because men begin to think of their wife's as they did their mothers.

 

In my 20's I have been guilty of this with girlfriends. When I see the girl I had passion for vacuuming and doing laundry, I would place her in "mother" mode. I then turned into a child again.

 

That was then, this is now.

 

I'm a grown man now, so I have no excuse. Neither does any husband or boyfriend who decides to grow up.

 

Things you can do to change the situation: My girlfriend would dress in lingerie at night. Oh wow, did I act on my best behavior. She knew how to be a woman and a TIGER. I think women need to do both as well as men.

 

Be a woman and a TIGER

Be a man and a LION

[SweetypieEnlightenedOne]

Nmarch thanks,

 

I am so glad someone could actually respond without trying to shift the blame on me.

 

I feel your pain. ANd now that I read your post..i'm not going to take this thing down. Nope. Obviously men need to wake up. If they don't like my post..hey don't read it.

[SweetypieEnlightenedOne]

routerx,

 

Thank You so much for your mature reply. I like your suggestions..growll j/k

No but thank you for not trying to read more into this then what I said. I mean obviously you have nothing to hide, so you are not sensitive and offended.

[Princess777]

Greetings All,

 

I think this phenomenon happens when the man becomes too comfortable. He thinks that he will never lose the girl, so he no longer has to court her. Ladies, I think you've always got to keep a little insecurity in your man. I'm not saying to lie or not be yourself. What I am saying is, make sure he respects you and that you keep to your personal boundaries and protect them, and follow through with what you say. This goes both ways, of course. Make sure he knows that you had a life before you met him, that you still have one now, and that you always will, with or without him. It is not being nasty toward your partner to be sure of yourself, but rather it is a display of confidence that you know who you are and are proud of yourself. Be emotionally honest with yourself and submit issues to him with respect and in a non-accusing way. Also, if a woman does not like how her man is treating her, she needs to follow proper communication guidelines, because like the guys say, they can't read our minds, and let's face it, we all want our man to be a "man" sometimes and a sweetie the rest of the time.... it's confusing for them. Proper communication consists of number one knowing what YOU want before accusing him of not doing it. That is a whole other topic though...... Hope this helps some, just my opinion of course.

[Firehawk]

Sweetie pie, sounds to me like the 75 % that you are referring to are adolescent boys. Just because a male reaches a certain age that does not make him a man. A man takes his love and resposibilities seriously He makes mistakes but tries to learn from them. He is willing and open to listen to your desires and feelings even though they may be different from yours. Communication is the key in any man-woman relationship. It is kind of funny that I was just thinking about are there any good women out there that are not married?

[neva_black_n_white]

firehawk i completely agree with what your saying.

and quite frankly, i give applauds for sweetie pie as correctly she is intelligent in what she is putting, you see when she put that an intelligent and mature answer came from one that had nothing to hide, to me that is correct in past situations is it not right that when yourself or someone around you has something to hide they become very high kept on themselves and deffensive, not allowing one side of the coin to be seen. then again the argument here was set straight out to just males where it probably would have got as edgey if to both sexes, yet still the discussion remains.

 

why do men some men treat women like dogs? in my eyes i feel that some men still believe in this day and age they are superior to women and that to me is incorrect. why isnt there equality. as for this it is then brought into a relationship and a woman is manipulated and belittled.

 

it may be as said that some women are aggressive towards this issues, but likely it is that they deserve to be, i mean to be put through the situation of such patronisation and using (as rightly seen done to men also) is degrading and something to be spoke up on.

 

anyway some great opions everyone, and does equailty, and superior beliefs come into this????

 

kel

[Ash]

I'll start out by stating that I probably fall well within the 75% category a lot of the time. I'll try to examine why.

 

1. Romance. I was never particularly romantic with my wife. Why? I wound up with the wrong person. I was never really in love with her like I should have been. That was my fault. I should have known better. I knew at the time there was an issue with that, I turned a blind eye and forged on ahead anyway.

 

2. Faithful. I have been unfaithful. I fell in love with somebody else. I think this happened because I felt no true affection and warmth when at home with my wife. I comes back to the fact I talked about in #1. I wanted the warmth that I didn't feel within myself for another. Being on the receiving end is not the same as giving. I wanted to give my affections to somebody, and it just wasn't my wife, and never was.

 

3. Clothing. I do try to keep help out with the clothing. I really screwed up once and wrecked a machine load of her clothes. She was livid, so I stopped helping to a large degree. We trade off on a lot of the chores anyway. She does do the majority of the wash. I tend to get my clothes in the right place at the right time, at least as much as anybody else in the house. I handle mechanical issues, and yard work to a large degree. I think this is common, men tend to handle that type of thing, and often the occasion different type of task, but women get stuck with the day to day tasks. I think this does have something to do with our internal makeup though. Women are better at performing repetitive tasks. Take a look at most manufacturing operations and you'll see a lot of assemblers etc. are female. It's not that it's less of a job, in fact, it's often when the quality starts, so in many ways it's more important than the person say doing test. If the assembler did it right, as usually happens, the test is almost wasted effort. Same as the house. Getting dinner on the table is more important than painting the living room. Many men I think get tired of doing the same thing over and over. I know I do. I try to help by cooking etc.

 

4. Ironing. This is an odd one. I think we have an iron, nobody uses it. I notice cultural difference in this. For example, I'm Canadian. Here, nobody seems to iron. In England, everybody seems to. Again though, it's a tedious daily chose that I for one tend to avoid. Maybe the thing is there's no glory in it. We all tend to look nicer in pressed clothing, but men aren't willing often to take the time. They want the easy, "Oh, didn't you do a good job" type of recognition. One interesting note on ironing though by the way that does affect it all, in Canada, everybody has and uses dryers for the most part, and clothes often do seem to emerge from them in somewhat straighter fashion than when hung out to dry on the line.

 

5. Last in Bed. I'm not sure what you meant by this. Sorry.

 

6. Dress Nice. I've always tried to dress well within budgetary reasons. Men in general seem to stop caring though once they've attracted a mate. I'm not really sure why this is myself. Part of it's laziness. I takes more effort to buy decent clothes, decide what to wear, and keep the clothes in reasonable condition. (I buy permanent press stuff etc. that doesn't really need ironing by the way.) Men stop trying to impress there mates when I don't think they should. They start thinking there is no need for romance, or attraction anymore, but there is.

 

We men don't date our wives like we should after we're married. And even long term girlfriends don't get this nice treatment. It's important that as couples we should attempt to do these things, and I think men fall down on this a lot sooner than women do. Men in general tend not to be romantic in nature, it's something they have to draw out and learn and use. They do other things that women don't do, and I think to have a balance, the women in their lives have to realize this.

 

I had always wished my wife would take more interest in some of the things I did simply as a marital aid, but she didn't. So I think I reciprocated by not being interested in romance. I don't know which happened first to be honest. But that's the way it feels in the end. Two people, two worlds. Each unwilling to live in the other's on occasion.

[BrandonBo]

i agree there are some pretty horrible guys out there and first i apologise for them no guy shoudl treat a women worse then a dog. i think some of the guys uve dated have been horrible and wrecked our image sigh but im glad u kno there are some good ones out there i dont have much to say btu that was it

[kmccaugh]

Wow, there are a lot of views out here. Good subject.

 

2 people meet, hit it off, start dating, keep dating, only date that person, get serious and either marry or split.

 

If you think about the state of mind people are in when you meet them - usually positive it is not hard to see initial attraction. Trouble is the first few months of dating is "bliss". The newness of discoveries and the mystery of what is going to happen and when it will happen. Falling in love - ahhh, the feeling. THEN life sets in. The mystery is gone. As the new parts of the relationship fade I feel that stronger bonds need to be formed. Seems to me there are some main relationship breakers . . .these go for both men and women!

 

1. Don't lose true respect for the other and the other's family/life/body/property, etc.

2. Show and continue to show your partner your love in the way THEY need. Not necessarily the way you prefer but everyone is different. You need to find out what makes them happy and feel loved and do it - even if you don't understand it.

3. Don't take your love and the relationship for granted.

4. Don't require your partner to "take care" of you. Take care of yourself!! If your old enough to be in an intimate relationship, you are old enough to take responsibility for picking up your socks!

5. Don't play games on your partner's emotions to try to trick them into getting what you need, or testing them. It will backfire.

6. Share the little things in life and realize how important they are.

7. Allow the other partner to "have a life". Don't try to control their actions, activities, and thoughts. If they are doing things that you feel are threatening then perhaps you are with the wrong person. A person that loves you wouldn't do things that would jeapordize your love for them.

8. Respect yourself. Shower, smell good, buy some new clothes, be the best you can be. Take care of yourself like you did when you were single. This will drive your mate crazy. Being physically and emotionally attracted to a partner is the best recipe for "heating up the sheets". You will have the best sex of your life. She will be happy to please and so will he.

9. Don't use sexual acts as "rewards" or "punishments" for events, behavioor, etc. It may be fun at first - guarantee, you will lose respect for each other in the end.

10. Make the other a priority in your life. We are all busy. Don't expect the other person always to be there for you when you can only find time to fit them in here and there. Trust me, eventually that person will seek attention somewhere else!

 

Hope this opens some additional thoughts on the posts. Some views to share - as I live and learn.

[Tex1907]

I agree with you. Im 19/m myself and I actually found that my g/f was not romantic enough and really stopped dressing nice (around me at least)....that really started to upset me...but I kept on trying to look my best and stay romantic....plus I was faithful to her for our entire 4 year relationship and she left me for a much older guy! It seems like the 75% of guys you are talking about are all the ones who get good relationships and the 25% who actually care are all the ones who get dumped the most.....its not fair how all the cheaters and aholes all come out on top....just thought that those might be some interesting thoughts... -Bill

[EmptySoul]

hey! i know exactly how you feel! i'm single now, and staying that way because i'm so tired of all the guys pull! the lying, being two faced, flirting with everything with boobs, etc.! Even this seemingly perfect, blonde, blue eyed awesome guy who everyone told me had the greatest personality and treated girls like QUEENS turned out to be a too. like you said, no offense to that dying species out there (good guys), i just wish some of you would spread your genes or something!!!

EmptySoul

[highcliff]

I can't understand cheaters. If you've got a loving, intimate relationship with someone, why spoil it for a night or two of sex? Its beyond me.

 

I'm a guy, before you ask, and while i can understand a person becoming so comfortable in a relationship that they start to leave their socks or underwear on furniture and stuff, i'd still hope that romance is kept alive. I guess people begin to take for granted what life is like with their significant other that they forget what it was like before their partner arrived into their world, or when it was first starting off.

 

Maybe guys do get too comfortable. But women have their problems as well. Nice guys are played for suckers in the dating game. My best friend is a really great guy, he is nice looking to women, and he treats them very well. Problem is, they tend to dump him without telling him why - and he is getting tired of it.

 

It could be that the whole point is not gender specifically, but the type of person. Women and men both do this, take their partners for granted, or worse, use and abuse them. These types of people don't seem to plan far ahead, and only are in a relationship short-term.

 

The other sort, the 25%, are long-term thinkers who know mostly that they have to work to maintain a relationship, that romance and intimacy are more important that sex, that the other person's happiness and comfort come first, and that the other person in their life effectively becomes a best friend. THE Best Friend, actually.

 

And like best friends, i guess they get used to being around you so much that the begin to let things slip. Abuse and treating your partner like dirt is inexcusable, as is cheating on them with someone else. But leaving odd things around the house and living slightly slobbishly is something that, is something a friend might do (such as a roomate, after a while). But like friends, maintenance is needed to keep it going, and romance is a part of that.

 

I hope i never lose that spark anyway. I prefer intimacy to sex (cuddling on a couch, talking about whatever is more appealing to me then sex) so maybe there is hope for me yet.

[CanadianGirl]

I've dated alot of crummy men.

 

My first real, committed relationship started very young...with a very insecure/abusive guy. We lived together for 4 years before my daughter was born (I was 16). At the time, I was alot more mature and stable than he was. He treated me like crap. Since this was my first real serious relationship -- I kinda thought I deserved it. I didn't really know better.

 

Once our daughter came, I thought he'd change. He didn't. He got worse. Eventually, I left (to his surprise).

 

This ruined my idea of a relationship for a few years. I continued to choose men who were bad for me.

 

Even worse, when I did find a guy who was sweet and cared for me...it turned me off. It creeped me out knowing that I had him. I didn't want someone to call me/see me every day. I didn't want someone who was too mushy and it seemed like they were wimps who couldn't provide or protect me. This was my complex.

 

So, I gravitated towards what I already knew....Men who treated me like less than them and used me. I had a low self esteem, and I thought I didn't deserve better...or, that I couldn't get a better man...and if I did, he would be a big turn off for me.

 

Then I started working on myself...I thought that I did DESERVE better, but I continued to date men who were bad for me. Eventually, I had the point of view that all men were jerks, and stopped dating all together.

 

In the 3 years that I was single....I started to befriend men, instead of dating them. I became very close to a man who is the sweetest guy I know. I got to know them from a different perspective - a platonic one.

 

I realized that it wasn't that all men were jerks...it was just that I chose to stick with the ones who were. It was my problem. I chose to stay in bad relationships because it's what I knew...it was a twisted comfort zone to me.

 

So, I decided to work on my self esteem. I started a new career, and moved to a different city. I began to look at myself and my patterns and realized that I never really had a chance to experience life - and so I did. I went out, not looking for love. I did what I wanted to do. I began to understand myself and listen to myself -- I decided what was good for me. I decided that I wouldn't settle for any less than what I wanted in a man...what every woman wants:

 

A man to be a man - who is sensitive when he wants to be - strong when he has to be - and one who truly knows himself and respects women. A man who is loving, but not soft. A man who is a lover and a fighter. A man who has the same outlook on life as I do, a man who will be there for me, and understand where I've been. A man who can laugh in the face of adversity, and cry when he is hurt. A man who is satisfying not only in bed, but in all aspects of being. A man who has a sense of humor, and a sense of adventure. A man who is different than me in the RIGHT kinds of ways...a man who compliments my personality...

 

I never thought I'd find him. I never really looked. I just thought Love would find me. I knew that I would know if he was the right person when I met him.

 

I met him.

 

Lesson? I learned to appreciate myself and respect my decisions. I learned what I didn't want before I learned what I wanted. I had "BAD GUY SYNDROME" for a long time. And now that I know what I want, I understand that it isn't all men who are bad -- it's just that's who I thought I deserved.

[Derek]

Wow. Great post CanadianGirl, you really seem to have it

together and the story of your journey makes the happy ending

even sweeter.

 

Sweetypie may have thought that the previous posters

were harping on her instead of on the men.

 

But CanadianGirl said it best, in changing our own attitudes,

we change the outcomes around us.

 

Self fulfilling prophecies.

 

 

[Ash]

CanadianGirl - outstanding. Thanks.

 

highcliff, you said:

I can't understand cheaters. If you've got a loving, intimate relationship with someone, why spoil it for a night or two of sex? Its beyond me.

 

Unfortunately, this is self contradictory.

 

As most of you who've read much of my stuff on the board know, I'm a cheater. I was NOT in a loving, intimate relationship. Unfortunately, life is not the bed of roses. Those who are do tend not to cheat. Those that do cheat tend to be having difficulties.

 

I have always treated my wife very well. I never took her for granted. I do my fair share around the house. I do more that my fair share outside the house. There was never abuse, or poor treatment, there was just no true love or affection. But as you say, I've done the inexcusable. Don't worry though, I've paid for it, still am and always will. Emotionally, spiritually and financially.

 

Would I do it again? Good question. Ask yourself this, would you do anything for love? Answer this honestly. Now, if you person you loved was not your partner, how would it change? And yes, you can feel in love completely and utterly against your will. It's an emotional pool, once you start falling into it, you're completely done for. Either you follow your heart, or you deny your heart. There is no correct answer anymore. Following your heart hurts the one you were with, and hurts you too because you know it's hurting them. And denying it hurts the one you fell into love with, and hurts you too because you can't be with them. You can't soar, you can't fly. The world turns gray and colder. All I can say I hope like hell it never happens to anybody reading this, because if it does, not only do all three of you hurt like crazy, your tolerance level of those never having experienced it drops several levels.

 

Just remember folks, some of those despicable men that Derek says we are harping on may be your best friends. You may just not realize it yet.

 

A final note, it just seems all the tolerance goes out the window when something like this happens. To all those on the board here that know me a bit, am I really all that terrible a person? I like to think not. But maybe I am that bad, maybe they're just too tolerant of me. And I guess for that, thanks from the bottom of my heart. You're acceptance of me for who I am is special, and I will always be thankful for it.

[CanadianGirl]

Thanks!

 

I like to share my stories, in hopes that it will open someone's eyes.

 

There are good and bad in both sexes, just as much as there is in all races of people.

 

As long as you stay in a bad relationship, you are just contributing to the game. Women/Men need to stop wasting thier time with someone who does not give them the respect they deserve. I can't feel bad for these people, because they allow it to happen. There is always a way out. In some cases, police and re-location may be involved, but there is always a way.

 

It's hard to learn healthy patterns of behavior when all you've known is dysfunction...but it's not impossible. I think the lady who started this subject has a hate-on for men and is jaded on relationships.

 

She says that it's her friends relationship that she is referring to --- but judging by her deep felt anomosity towards men, I think she is leaving alot out of her story.