Is Circumcision A Form Of Child Abuse ?

[tiredofvampires]

also, evolution does leave vestigial structures that serve no purpose, but don't adversely affect our chances of survival... see link removed

 

I don't see "foreskin" on this list of vestigial human structures.

[Angel_baby]

When my son was born my husband wanted him circumcised. I didn't want it at first because of the fact that they would be cutting my baby! My husband is also circumcised and convinced me that it would be "better" for my son in the long run.

 

I cried my eyes out when they brought him back to me after the circumcision. And cried even more when I changed his diaper each time.

 

What's done is done and hopefully it wasn't a bad thing. But I won't ever forget how much it hurt that because I gave the "ok" my newborn son was in so much pain because of me.

[dragon111]

i don't know if this is just here in the northeastern united states but i live in an affluent neighborhood and the vast majority of my friends say they are circumsized. i always thought that most people who had access to good doctors were circumsized? maybe i was totally off on that.

 

I don't know anybody that is circumcised, and we have access to good doctors. I thought only religious people got circumcised.

 

I don't agree that that comparison is a fair one as far as the impact of removing a foreskin as compared to removing the labia.

 

You do know that women do get circumcised in some countries? so it is comparable.

 

The foreskin has got a purpose, i imagine it would be very uncomfortable with the head of your penis exposed to rub on your underwear, lose sensitivity and be exposed to the elements, it's much better to have it protected. I don't see why people think it's harder to keep an uncircumcised penis clean, i have no difficulty, i would think it's harder to keep a circumcised penis clean because it's exposed.

 

I guess if you have a very long foreskin then that could cause problems, but i doubt many people have very long foreskins and so this thing about having to pull back your foreskin to go to toilet is hardly going to be a factor for many people.

 

Whoa, circumscion is not abuse.

 

Have you seen pictures of uncircumsied penises?! Gross! It's good to have a circumscied penis says Dr. Oz. It's more healthy.

 

Depends what penises you have been looking at, and uncircumcised penises can look exactly like circumcised penises when erect by pulling back the foreskin.

[greenmonster]

First off...I cannot believe how adament some of yall are about this...hell...I'd never even thought it was that big of a deal to be honest...6 pages of this already? seriously? I mean...your that up in arms over a flap of skin on somones wang?

 

Secondly...calling it mutilation is a FAR cry from the truth, especially when its done near birth instead of later on in life...

 

Third...haha...I said wang in part one.

 

Fourth...I'm cut...and I like it that way...don't have any extra baggage down there to deal with...I mean honestly I cant really imagine NOT being cut and having to deal with an extra flap of skin...who needs extra skin? don't people spend millions each year on plastic surgery to get extra skin removed?

 

Fif...I think it gives your little man more of a "face" so to speak...otherwise it just looks like a sausage link.

 

Sixth...you guys are seriously argueing over this? and some people actually get angry over this? yall need to relax and realize there are more important issues to discuss rather than some snippit of skin.

 

Seven...Remove all the medical and religious references from this discussion...and answer me this...why would you WANT extra skin to deal with?

 

Eight...since I have played sports my entire life even through college and showered literally with hundreds of different men after football practice at the gym etc...I've seen a lotta weiners...and I dunno about the rest of the USA, but here in Texas I think I may have run accross 2 maybe 3 guys that wern't cut....but according to an ex-girlfriend of mine from Norway she said that most european boys weren't cut...so who knows.

 

Nine...haha...I said I have "seen a lotta weiners"

 

Ten...does anyone here that was cut at birth or near birth remember it? because maybe I just don't have that great of a memory but I don't rememeber anything from basically before I was 5 years old....

[m12988]

Yeah, we were just debating about natural penises over manmade ones, you could say. I can tell a lot of people in this thread have probably had zero education in the biology/medical section and skipped sex ed class, lol.

[AwdreeHpburn]

I

I think it's a matter of opinion as to whether there are medical benefits to circumcision.

 

well - no offence to anyone.. but I don't trust ya'll s matter of opinion.

 

It IS a matter of opinion, true enough. Should it be? I don't think so.

 

People, en masse, are stupid and we make decisions based on our feelings, personal biases or beliefs and opinions, not on the information or facts.

 

Which is why I prefer to go with the "opinions" on the matter of the experts.

 

"After analysis of almost 40 years of available medical research on circumcision, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) issued new recommendations today stating that the benefits are not significant enough for the AAP to recommend circumcision as a routine procedure. The new policy statement was published in this month's issue of Pediatrics, the journal of the AAP."

 

from this website here: link removed

[AwdreeHpburn]

This topic is absurd.

 

Circumcision is the removal of an UNEEDED piece of tissue,

 

Do you even know what's IN the skin they remove?

 

Do you know WHY they remove it?

[AwdreeHpburn]

"Infant circumcision is made more acceptable by believing the notion that there is a flap of skin at the end of the penis called the foreskin which hangs over the glans and circumcision simply removes that flap. This is factually incorrect. By thinking that the foreskin is separate or "extra" tissue it is easier to believe that its removal does little to impact or change the rest of the skin of the penis.

 

There is really no separate anatomical structure called the foreskin. Rather there is one single continuous skin sheath of the penis which is called the skin system. "

 

From this website here: link removed

 

call me a cheater - even tho I don't think looking it up is cheating...

[AwdreeHpburn]

I don't care what's in the skin. I don't need it,

 

You may not think you need it, but according do this, you don't know what you're missing......

 

"Loss of the foreskin nerves themselves. As has been demonstrated by studies such as the one by Dr. Taylor and by the testimonials of the majority of intact men, the inner foreskin possesses a greater density of nerve endings. It is thought to be more erogenous than even the glans. The is no question that the foreskin is a highly erogenous tissue. This tremendous amount of sensitivity is lost completely when the forefold of the skin system is amputated. In addition to this, the most sensitive part of the penis, the frenulum of the foreskin, is either partially or totally removed in most infant circumcisions. The frenulum is the continuation of the inner foreskin which attaches to the underside (ventral part) of the glans. Thus, a significant percentage, if not the majority, of erogenous nerve supply to the penis is removed in circumcision at birth."

[RayKay]

I will not do it to my own future children (I come from a family where it was not done either...my mum is English and it really was not the norm there so she never had it done to my brother for example). I do not see it as medically necessary and I have done a lot of research on it (it is definitely more than "just a bit of skin"). And while some people cite the few instances where boys need once later in life due to foreskin tightening (often due to scarring where they have forced skin back, or where have not taken time to learn how to properly care for it), or where there are infections (proper hygiene dimishes this risk greatly; no different than a girl needing to learn to clean her labia for example)....I have seen far worse results from botched circ's (one famous case that occurred here was the story of two twins, one whose was botched and they then were raised as an "experiement" of nature v. nurture as one was raised a girl.....and it ended tragically for them both).

 

That being said, I respect the decision of others to do it if they have thought it through and weighed the options. I am certain my boyfriend's parents for example never thought it would be "hurtful" to do, and often it is almost "automatic"; parents are not given much information on it. I don't believe parents whom are having it done consider it to be abuse in the least, and are often given lots of conflicting information that makes it hard to decide (i.e. yes, reduces risk of HIV transmission....which is appealing, but often are not given the stats for the other side, or think through whether a condom would not be just as effective, etc).

 

A lot of the history of circumcision has to do with groups thinking it would reduce rates of masturbation and promiscuity (of course, this has nothing to do with it and is a pretty bad reason to inflict that on babies...). To me that is akin to removing part of clitoris to promote chastity as is done in some places...and I have heard (and researched) that the nerves are similar and that the procedure does reduce sensitivity not just by loss of foreskin but by "hardening" the exposed glans to be less sensitive too. Thinking of removing that many nerves makes me shiver in an unpleasant way.

 

Lots also get it done so babies look like daddy or all the other boys...again not a good rationale in my own opinion. My brother never looked like dad in that respect, and he was told why....he was fine with it! And my dad was fine with it too..

 

I argue too against it being "healthier", "cleaner" or "less gross". It is only in North America there seems to be this preoccupation with foreskins as being "dirty" and it is far from the truth. Proper hygiene is all it takes to prevent UTI's (females get far more UTI's/yeast infections as children yet we are not trying to remove any of their labia for example to make it "cleaner"). Most women whom say it looks gross would not even know in most cases unless they saw it flaccid; when erect they look the same, and the only reason they look "gross" to some is because it is different - and not even naturally different. I have been intimate with both circ'd and uncirc'd men and there really was no visual difference (I did notice greater sensitivity though for them in certain...places....where I touched etc, and that the foreskin allowed for easier "gliding" and it provided better friction for them overall...lol).

[AwdreeHpburn]

^LOL That's what my poor husband says all the time pinball! And it was his un-circumcised GRANDFATHER who first told him about it.....

 

(I didn't know grandfather's and grandsons spoke about such topics....but, there ya have it!)

[rocio]

I don't think it's child abuse. I personally think that nature is smart and doesn't put things on our bodies that don't belong there. However, I respect it as a cultural and religious practise and respect the rights of parents to do what they feel is best for their children, in this case.

[melrich]

This is not a comment on the rights and wrongs of circimcision.

 

But let me comment on where I think the "anti" proponents get this wrong (and not just in this forum).

 

It is in the emotive use of the term "Child abuse".

 

Do they ever stop to think that there are millions and millions of circumcised people in the world who love their parents dearly and in turn are loved by their parents that are confronted by people who are intimating that they were abused by those very parents?

 

Have the debate by all means. But don't throw labels at it that are likely to offend and divide.

[greenmonster]

There are dozens of examples of things that "nature puts on bodies" that aren't necessary. On humans, the appendix, the tailbone, the plica semilunaris on the inside corner of the eye (a remnant of the nictitating membrane) and muscles in the ear and other parts of the body.

 

Evolution has removed and changed the human body and even today we continue to evolve...

 

wisdom teeth for example...the % of people that actually have wisdom teeth has decreased substantially over the last several generations...even different cultures accross the world have very different % of people with wisdom teeth from 99% to nearly 0%...but overall the number of people that have them is going down because we no longer need them...and havn't needed them for thousands of years...

 

eyebrows...yet again...came from our neanderthall days when bathing wasn't really common and dirty hair contained insecets and all kinds of dirt and such that would get in the eyes if we didn't have eyebrows...but just over the last 300 years you can see how the eyebrows of people have slimmed up and gotten smaller and smaller...while they still do serve a purpose of keeping water/sweat out of the eyes and shading the eyes, they are no longer a truly "needed" part of the body.

 

personally...I get plenty of sensativity from my man parts thank you very much...dunno what I'm missing out on, but I enjoy all aspects of sexual activity and I very happy with what I got. and frankly I don't see what some extra baggage down there is going to do that would enhance it in any way...but whatever...

 

considering that any study done on the sensitivity durring sex would mean that the surgery would have had to have been done later in life which would of course cause more damage and lessen the sensitivity...so I'm jsut gonna go with what I know on this one and say that clippin the little bit o' skin off of your junk doesn't hurt a thing...just gives your little man a neeter appearance...which is fine by me

[greenmonster]

This is not a comment on the rights and wrongs of circimcision.

 

But let me comment on where I think the "anti" proponents get this wrong (and not just in this forum).

 

It is in the emotive use of the term "Child abuse".

 

Do they ever stop to think that there are millions and millions of circumcised people in the world who love their parents dearly and in turn are loved by their parents that are confronted by people who are intimating that they were abused by those very parents?

 

Have the debate by all means. But don't throw labels at it that are likely to offend and divide.

 

totally 100% right...thanks melrich...glad to see that someone can inject some rare logical thought into discussions like this

[Smurfette]

Is it an American thing? Coz I dont know a single person who is circumsised. I dont see the point in it tbh...

[duchesstigerlily]

I dont think its child abuse. Many people do it for cultural and religious reasons and thats their complete and total right. I work in the childbirth field and I've seen the reality of a circumcision and I can tell you that I dont approve of it at all. I think every parent has the right to make that decision but I also think a lot of parents dont realize what is fully involved here. Anesthetic is rarely used with the exception of maybe some numbing cream which does little to nothing and then the Doctor proceeds to cut off the foreskin with a special instrument which results in extreme pain for the baby. It has been shown in studies that circumcision does have after effects for the baby as well concerning feeding, bonding etc. etc.

 

I think to call it child abuse is a bit strong because parents dont have this procedure done intentionally to hurt a child. I think parents need to be more educated as to what will take place as I know of several parents who witnessed the "act" and were traumatized by it after the fact. I believe that if proper pain relief techniques were in place it would make the procedure more acceptable but as it is, the rate of circumcisions has decreased over the years as it is no longer "medically recommended" by a lot of Doctors.

 

I, personally, will not have any son of mine circumcised....but thats a personal choice after seeing the reality of it and being aware of the current research on the topic. However, we can't go around labelling everyone who does consent to having the procedure done as child abusers....that would make *my* parents child abusers for circumcising my brother and I can tell you that my parents are the most loving and supportive people. My mom, however, says that had she known more about what would take place she likely wouldnt have had it done but in the early 80's it was the norm for a newborn boy to be circumcised.

[greenmonster]

Is it an American thing? Coz I dont know a single person who is circumsised. I dont see the point in it tbh...

 

pretty much...the %'s of American males that are circ'd are comperable with the % of the european ones that aren't...night & day basically...

 

I dunno...weiners that aren't cut are just funny lookin to me...

[dragon lady]

I'm not sure if this constitutes child abuse, but I wouldn't do it to my newborn if I had one. I'd wait until he was older and let him make up his own mind. I don't think there are many adult circumcisions, so I doubt there are many who deeply regret not having it done.

[greenmonster]

I'm not sure if this constitutes child abuse, but I wouldn't do it to my newborn if I had one. I'd wait until he was older and let him make up his own mind. I don't think there are many adult circumcisions, so I doubt there are many who deeply regret not having it done.

 

considering the complications of circumcisions done on older males its not shocking at all they there aren't many adult ones done...at that point in time it isn't an issue of regret or anything its a matter of "this is how I grew up...I'm ok now...and I'll be damned if I'm gonna get some surgery done on my junk!!"

 

its just a matter of how you grow up really...I mean...just like I've never met anyone that didn't have one and wished they did, I can also say I've never met anyone that had one done and wish they didn't!

 

circ'd guys think: "gross..why the hell would you want that extra flap of skin you gott deal with?...weird...european people are strange"

 

un-circ'd guys think: "odd...why the hell would you chop a piece of your wang off?...weird...Americans are strange"

[Shiranai]

I like the way a circumcised penis looks, it's also easier to clean when washed, and I heard a circumcised one looks nicer than an uncircumcised one. Because of all the above reasons, I'll have my sons circumcised.

 

Benefit or no benefit, at least it saves them the future trouble of finding a girlfriend who screams "Eww... why did you dress your snake up in a turtleneck?" Besides, at least the baby will have no memory and won't even know if it's done or not. The adult, will have to suffer weeks with it, and forced to act normal because he has work/school.

[dragon111]

I have seen far worse results from botched circ's (one famous case that occurred here was the story of two twins, one whose was botched and they then were raised as an "experiement" of nature v. nurture as one was raised a girl.....and it ended tragically for them both).

 

Yeah that was terrible, the one with that doctor, i think he was called Dr Money, who took advantage of the situation, the twins both ended up killing themselves as far as i can remember.

 

Is it an American thing? Coz I dont know a single person who is circumsised. I dont see the point in it tbh...

 

 

Well your in Scotland and you say this, i'm in Wales and i don't know anybody that is circumcised, not sure about england, perhaps celtic areas have never traditionally practiced circumcision, an idea?

 

I'm not going to have my children circumcised if or when i have any.

[rocio]

Yeah that was terrible, the one with that doctor, i think he was called Dr Money, who took advantage of the situation, the twins both ended up killing themselves as far as i can remember.

 

I watched the documentary and cried like a baby at the end (I very rarely cry). They seemed like such good, decent men.

[Tethys]

I don't want to offend anyone, but as my title says, I consider circumcision to be a form of child abuse. The whole idea of cutting of a piece of someone's genitals, without their permission, is so unreal and sick to me everytime I try to imagine it. If I went up to some woman and sliced off a part of her genitals, I am sure it would be called sexual assault and would be illegal. So why is it legal to do it to a defenseless child ?? To me, it's just a form of child abuse.

 

Do not equate the worst forms of female genital mutilation with male circumcision. They are not the same in the least, other than that they occur in the same general "area." If anyone went up to anyone else and sliced off a piece of their genitals, it would be a felony, period, so maybe you should phrase you questions better.

 

The issue of routine circumcision in the US is a hot one, and more and more parents are electing not to do it. I personally would not do it if I had a son -- I think it is medically unnecessary.

[m12988]

I watched the documentary and cried like a baby at the end (I very rarely cry). They seemed like such good, decent men.

 

 

I watched it too, so sad. See, this is another reason circumcision is bad. In this century we now have all the facts, whereas a few years ago, we didn't know any better. You never know what will happen, this may be rare but doctors are human and they may slice more than they need. Guys who are self conscious because their penis tilts more to the right or to the left? That is usually from circumcision. I just really dont see the need to do circumcision, in the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" sort of way. Unless there is a good reason, such as an abnormality of the foreskin, why do it?

 

As for the original question, i believe circumcision is not abuse. Most people who do circumcise their children are doing it out of reasons they think are good, they just are merely not educated about it and they assume it's OK because some doctors even try to push it on you (no sh**, since they want more money for an extra surgery).