Is Circumcision A Form Of Child Abuse ?

[m12988]

 

un-circ'd guys think: "odd...why the hell would you chop a piece of your wang off?...weird...Americans are strange"

 

 

I was born and raised in North America, and i have to agree that Americans are strange for actually letting a knife go near their genetalia. I'm with the un-circ'd guys on this one. Something odd about chopping up your genetalia. Even if you can't feel it when you're a baby, when complications arrive (like many cases) you'll feel it alright. In fact, one of my cousins had complications and had to go through another penis procedure because they chopped his skin off and it was too tight. Gross huh. I'd rather stay uncut myself if i was a male.

[bulletproof]

I like the way a circumcised penis looks, it's also easier to clean when washed, and I heard a circumcised one looks nicer than an uncircumcised one. Because of all the above reasons, I'll have my sons circumcised.

 

Benefit or no benefit, at least it saves them the future trouble of finding a girlfriend who screams "Eww... why did you dress your snake up in a turtleneck?" Besides, at least the baby will have no memory and won't even know if it's done or not. The adult, will have to suffer weeks with it, and forced to act normal because he has work/school.

 

I don't think I would take a knife to my child's penis so he could find a shallow gf later in life. Because YOU like the way a circumcised penis looks, you'll be circumcising your sons? How much time will you have with their penises, exactly?

 

Eighty percent of the world doesn't circumcise. It's an outdated tradition that serves no medical purpose. I don't know that it fits the definition of child abuse per se, but why anyone would do it is a mystery to me. I'm sad to think so many Americans are participating in traditions that they haven't bothered to research the origins of.

[Mythical_Suicide]

I don't think I would take a knife to my child's penis so he could find a shallow gf later in life. Because YOU like the way a circumcised penis looks, you'll be circumcising your sons? How much time will you have with their penises, exactly?

 

I'm sad to think so many Americans are participating in traditions that they haven't bothered to research the origins of.

 

 

I couldn't agree more with what you said.

 

It's rather shallow to sit here and say "oh i'm getting my son circumcised because it just looks better" . Are you serious? So, are you going to get your kid a nose job because his/her nose is misshaped? .. I could go on and on with the "it just looks better" argument but in the end, it's ridiculous!!

 

Are you even thinking about the risks that are involved in circumcision??? It is a surgical procedure after all. A friend of mine had her son circumcised, and the circ got botched and needless to say.. He will be scarred for the rest of his life because of it.

 

Now, his mom wishes she would have let him choose it because of her shallow decision to have it done just because it "looked better" now leaves her son self-conscience at the end of day anyway because he has a really bad scar.

[greenmonster]

I don't think I would take a knife to my child's penis so he could find a shallow gf later in life. Because YOU like the way a circumcised penis looks, you'll be circumcising your sons? How much time will you have with their penises, exactly?

 

Eighty percent of the world doesn't circumcise. It's an outdated tradition that serves no medical purpose. I don't know that it fits the definition of child abuse per se, but why anyone would do it is a mystery to me. I'm sad to think so many Americans are participating in traditions that they haven't bothered to research the origins of.

 

Dunno why you think its needed to attack somone simply becasue they think one thing looks better than another and call her shallow. I mean...seriously...would you consider me shallow if I say that I think long hair is prettier than short hair?

 

additionally...your 80% world wide number is wrong, its about 70% with some estimates saying as low as 60%.... it varys greatly from country to country.

 

the practice is very common and on the rise in most african countries, nearly 65% of all african males are circumcised. due to the substandard hygine standards that those coutries face and since circumcision does create a weiner that is easier to keep clean and stays cleaner in environments such as this then it IS medically smarter to have. Not all the world has access to daily showers/baths in clean water with antibacterial soaps....

 

the US has seen lower circumcision rates over the last decade, largely due to the latin american influx of immigrants. but the US is still nearly at 80%.

 

The latest survey on austraillian males found that nearly 60% were circumcised but that over the past 20 years the infant cirumcision rate has dropped sharply and is now under an estimated 20%...

 

but overall it isn't just the USA thats keeping this practice alive...personally I like that my little man is cut and I have had no complaints or problems with it being so...I have dated 2 girls from european countries where it wasn't the norm and I was the first guy that they had been with who had been cut..they didn't have a problem with it and kindof thought it was neat...

 

all in all...the topic of dissussion here isn't US vs. the World and wheather or not you think that cosmetically penises look better with or without being cut...its about whether or not you believe its child abuse...which I for one say absolutely not.

[greenmonster]

jesus...this is sad. do you have any clue on the actual numbers of "botched" circumcisions when done by a doctor in a hospital? circumcisions resulting in complications are about 2% world wide...which factors in the ones that are performed by religious figures in homes as compared to doctors in hospitals...

 

what if your son/daughter was born with a cleft pallet...one that wouldn't be severe enough to cause medial problems but certainly cosmetic missformity...would you put him/her under the knife in an attempt to make them look better and correct it?

 

What I think is most interesting about this whole thread is that the majority of responses are from women....who...by the way...don't even have a penis. which goes right along with the vast majority of the people who are the most anti circumcision people are women...just doesn't make sense to me...you would think that if men actually felt it was a big deal that we would be the ones making the most noise...since WE are the ones that actually have to work with this equipment our whole lives.

[Mythical_Suicide]

The same can be said for most guys as well (if you won't to throw the female doesn't know anything about it card out there) They don't know any different, if you were circumcised at birth who are you to say what it's like yourself. You don't know either!! It doesn't matter if you're a male nor female. From what you are saying, Unless you have had a circumcision done later in life and actually experienced both ways, noone has a say in it.

[shadesofmediocrity]

What I think is most interesting about this whole thread is that the majority of responses are from women....who...by the way...don't even have a penis.

 

Good observation

I've come to the conclusion that it's just one of those societal cosmetic things that us in North America do for whatever reason, like ear piercing, hair dying, etc...doesn't really correlate to either of those things but I'm lumping it in there anyways. There are risks that something will go wrong with any surgical procedure. Unfortunately, I can see how some complications could be avoided in the unnatural state, and having acquired some hands-on knowledge it's really not a big deal. Can't change what's already been done there, and I would never have prejudice on whether it has or has not been altered at birth.

I have actually given this topic a bizarre amount of thought hahahaa

[greenmonster]

The same can be said for most guys as well (if you won't to throw the female doesn't know anything about it card out there) They don't know any different, if you were circumcised at birth who are you to say what it's like yourself. You don't know either!! It doesn't matter if you're a male nor female. From what you are saying, Unless you have had a circumcision done later in life and actually experienced both ways, noone has a say in it.

considering that the risks with something going wrong with a circumcision post childhood, especially post puberty, are so drastically higher and loss of some feeling is nearly a given....someone giving their opinion by them having it done in adulthood is pretty much a comparrison of apples and oranges when compared to someone who had it done at birth.

 

and yes...I will throw the girls don't know what its like to have a penis card out there...because frankly girls don't know what its like to have a penis unless you were born with one and later had it removed or something...I dunno how all that trans-whatever stuff works but...the point it that boys have a penis, girls have a vagina...I don't claim to know or understand what its like to have a vagina so PLEASE don't sit there and say you understand what its like to have a penis.

 

what I can say is that I have a circumcised penis...nearly every guy I know has one as well...and none of us have any problems with our equipment and enjoy our sex lives.

 

so unless you can tell me ONE THING wrong with my penis because I am circumcised then I'm pretty much going to discount your thoughts on this down to nill...and just toss out the "you don't know what your talking about" card along with the "your a girl who doesn't have a penis" card and the "I'm a guy who has had a circumcision" & "I have a penis" card...hell I'll make it a full boat with this fist full of cards and just toss out the "this isn't even the point of this thread anyway" card...

 

so....you got anything else??

 

TOPIC: is circumcision a form of child abuse

[lady00]

In my opinion, I don't really see how it is child abuse. I mean, when I think of what child abuse means, I think of something that either emotionally or physically hurts a child. If there are no complications (and complications from circumcision are rare if done by a doctor in a hospital) then I don't see it as abuse. I see it as a choice the parents make for whatever reasons they decide. Parents are called upon to make life-changing decisions about their babies all the time...it's something they are entrusted with in consultation with doctors. And yes, it is completely 100% different from female circumcision. I've studied female circumcision and it's absolutely ridiculous to compare the two. One inevitably leads to physical pain, sexual problems, urinary problems...the other does not.

 

I have dated guys who were both circumcized and not circumcized and I actually asked the uncircumcized guys what they thought about this topic and they thought it wasn't a big deal. They didn't seem to be bothered by not being circumcized. The ones who were...the topic never came up because I wasn't curious about it because it is seems like the norm where I live.

[bulletproof]

Dunno why you think its needed to attack somone simply becasue they think one thing looks better than another and call her shallow. I mean...seriously...would you consider me shallow if I say that I think long hair is prettier than short hair?

 

It is not an attack just because I disagree. And I did not call the poster shallow, I was referring to the mythical gf of the future that would be so turned off by something perfectly natural. Further, long vs. short hair is not a comparable situation as there are no nerve endings in one's hair, nor is it a surgical procedure to get a haircut.

 

additionally...your 80% world wide number is wrong, its about 70% with some estimates saying as low as 60%.... it varys greatly from country to country.

 

I stand by 80% and my source for it. Furthermore, even if it was as low as 60% it is still the majority of the world.

 

the practice is very common and on the rise in most african countries, nearly 65% of all african males are circumcised. due to the substandard hygine standards that those coutries face and since circumcision does create a weiner that is easier to keep clean and stays cleaner in environments such as this then it IS medically smarter to have. Not all the world has access to daily showers/baths in clean water with antibacterial soaps....

 

I don't know whether it is a proven fact or not that the circumcised penis is easier to keep clean. However, that doesn't explain why we would keep doing it in the US, when we DO have showers/soap, etc.

 

the US has seen lower circumcision rates over the last decade, largely due to the latin american influx of immigrants. but the US is still nearly at 80%.

 

The US does not always set a good example, for lots of things.

 

all in all...the topic of dissussion here isn't US vs. the World and wheather or not you think that cosmetically penises look better with or without being cut...its about whether or not you believe its child abuse...which I for one say absolutely not.

The one point we agree on. I don't think this fits into the definition of child abuse, either.

 

I suggest you look up fallacies in logic.

[m12988]

Yeah, really. And i believe i do speak on behalf of my bf, who is uncut. He has exactly the same views as me and i dont appreciate anyone who thinks that an uncut person is "dirty" and their "weiner looks gross" which is a very immature way of putting it and obviously shows lack of knowledge in the sex dept. I personally dont have a problem with people who do circumcise their kids, or people who are circumcised, as it's a choice they make on their own. But most of them dont know why the heck they are even doing it. I think that's what we are trying to debate, not whether one person is better than the other. It's people carrying on traditions they know nothing about or have the wrong ideas on it.

[m12988]

The same can be said for most guys as well (if you won't to throw the female doesn't know anything about it card out there) They don't know any different, if you were circumcised at birth who are you to say what it's like yourself. You don't know either!! It doesn't matter if you're a male nor female. From what you are saying, Unless you have had a circumcision done later in life and actually experienced both ways, noone has a say in it.

 

 

Good point. None of us know what it's like, male or female, but we can make an assumption that if we put a knife to our genetalia it will indeed hurt. Don't plan on doing that to my kids personally.

[Angel_baby]

I forgot to add in my earlier post that my opinion on this topic of whether it is child abuse or not... Most defiantly not. It would be the same way for all cosmetic procedures. It just doesn't add up as child abuse in my book.

 

The reason why America's rate is so high is the same reason that it is for all cosmetic enhancements. America strives for that "perfect" image.

[greenmonster]

It is not an attack just because I disagree. And I did not call the poster shallow, I was referring to the mythical gf of the future that would be so turned off by something perfectly natural. Further, long vs. short hair is not a comparable situation as there are no nerve endings in one's hair, nor is it a surgical procedure to get a haircut.

oh i know its not an attack if you disagree...the way you made your statement was an attack...there are ways to use words in a non aggressive manner that express your thoughts AND are non intrusive. long vs. short hair is a perfectly fine example in this case because she referenced the purely cosmetic attributes to cut vs. un-cut.

I stand by 80% and my source for it. Furthermore, even if it was as low as 60% it is still the majority of the world.

stand by innaccurate numbers all you want, it still doesn't make them right. just because the majority of the world does something doesn't mean anything...especially when it comes to this topic. the US does it for cosmetic reasons mainly, the african countries do it for health reasons, and the rest of the world do it for religious reasons mainly. so I guess I don't understand the point of this statement... "we have more people on our side so we are right, you are wrong."..??? hmm...thats a REAL smart way of thinking.

I don't know whether it is a proven fact or not that the circumcised penis is easier to keep clean. However, that doesn't explain why we would keep doing it in the US, when we DO have showers/soap, etc.

I don't know if its a proven fact that Wendy's tastes better than McDonalds, but I know what I know and I know whats obvious. its mainly a cosmetic trend that we do it in the US still...but just because we do something for cosmetic reasons doesn't mean its wrong.

The US does not always set a good example, for lots of things.

haha...NO WAY!!! really???!?!? man...what a revolutionary statement. way to miss the entire point of what I was trying to say...but good job... you get 2 gold stars

The one point we agree on. I don't think this fits into the definition of child abuse, either.

after all your irrelivant rhetoric you finally bring it back to what this whole thing is about...thanks. glad we agree.

I suggest you look up fallacies in logic.

my logic of? facts? or opinions? logic follows a train of thought...in nothing I have stated was it point a leads to b which turns to c so the answer is d. logic has to have causality to it. I sated a couple factual statements about one subject, and then my opinion on another....two different sets of thought processes. do I think circumcision is wrong or right? nope...I don't believe there is a point to argueing it and I'm not argueing it because there is no true answer. do I believe its a perfectly acceptable practice? sure. do I think its perfectly acceptable not to have it done? yep, without a doubt. this whole damn thread isn't about who is right or wrong...its about child abuse. and my logic on that is 100% spot on accurate.

 

Yeah, really. And i believe i do speak on behalf of my bf, who is uncut. He has exactly the same views as me and i dont appreciate anyone who thinks that an uncut person is "dirty" and their "weiner looks gross" which is a very immature way of putting it and obviously shows lack of knowledge in the sex dept. I personally dont have a problem with people who do circumcise their kids, or people who are circumcised, as it's a choice they make on their own. But most of them dont know why the heck they are even doing it. I think that's what we are trying to debate, not whether one person is better than the other. It's people carrying on traditions they know nothing about or have the wrong ideas on it.

the "weiner looks gross" or "weird" comments and thoughts go both ways...and its not that they actually DO look "gross" or "weird" its just that one way is different from the other and whatever way you are used to is the way you accept and view as normal and the other way as something alien is all. personally I think girls that don't shave their armpits are "weird" or "gross" but again, its a cultural difference so who am I to judge. it all comes down to personal preference when we are talking about anything cosmetic.