Online Dating Woes

[Tory]

Hi there. I've been trying online dating for the first time for over six months now, and I still have not had any luck with scoring a date.

 

I've only had about 5 people interested in talking to me, but after 3 or 4 e-mails, just stopped suddenly where I'm always the last person to respond. And I only had one actual dinner date with the woman in person where it ended abruptly with a very cold hand-shake and she never called me back.

 

What am I doing wrong? I'm 30 years old, have a very attractive job in engineering, have my own condo down by the beach, and about to get a Master's degree. Plus I'm very conservative and trustworthy. Yet no one seems interested in giving me the benefit of the doubt and giving me a chance.

 

For the past several months (after giving it up through months 2 & 3), I've been e-mailing a new girl every single day with a very long, lengthy message expressing my interest in getting to know them better, as well as throwing in some interesting tid-bits about myself, while adding a little dry humor where appropriate.

 

Here's an example of one of the messages I sent recently:

 

"Hi there.

 

I read your profile and you seem like someone I'd like to get to know. I think we have quite a bit in common since we're both close to our family, love the beach and going to see movies, and I also like to scrapbook or collect family photos. I used to bring my book of photos around to show off to my co-workers or friends/guests of the family, which they used to refer to as my 'Bible'.

 

I see that you work as a pediatric nurse. Which hospital do you work for? My father and grandfather are both in the medical profession, where my dad is an internist at St. Joseph's hospital and my grandfather had his own family practice.

 

I have a condo in Seal Beach which I share with my two cats. Which isn't too bad since they're not messy and pretty quiet. The best part about where I live is the proximity to my job at Boeing in Huntington Beach. I have worked there for six years in aerospace and recently I'm working on the design analysis of the Mars crew explorer vehicle heat-shield, which is being built there. It's so amazing what NASA has planned for their future Mars Spacelab, it almost seems like science fiction.

 

Write back whenever you get a chance, and let me know if you're interested in talking. I'm looking forward to hearing from you.

 

And yet I still get no replies from anyone I e-mail. Once in a while, I'll get a flat out "Thanks but I'm not interested" reply.

 

What exactly am I doing wrong here!?! What do you think would be a more appropriate, friendly, inviting and smoother way of trying to strike up an online chat with a single person?

 

Thanks for your advice.

[QuietWolf]

Well, in my humble opinion (and I bet I get jumped on for this) but the that fact that you scrapbook, live with 2 cats, and like sci-fi might not attract a lot of women that like to go to the beach. Sorry if that is too blunt... but you said you live by the beach, but that the best part about it is that it is near your job?

 

Dude, to me, the best part about living near the beach would be that you could surf, scuba, throw a frisbee in the water, BBQ with friends, and that kind of thing.

 

Just because a women likes to scrapbook, doesn't mean she is looking for a guy that likes to scrapbook... I'd suggest keeping that on the downlow.

 

What do you do that is actually FUN? Talk about those things. But, to be fair, I've never liked online dating. I've had much better luck meeting women in clubs (hiking), soccer (I started my own co-ed team), that kind of thing.

 

Dunno, maybe there is a scrapbook club near the beach you could check out? Or maybe you could start a scrapbook club?

 

But seriously, do you have any interests or hobbies that are less, uhmm, sedate? Do you bike ride? Scuba? Climb? Surf? Anything physical? Talk about that too, and maybe try some of that stuff (take a class), you might like it, and you might even meet somebody in the class.

[JadedStar]

Quietwolfe is spot on IMO.

[Tory]

Unfortunately, I don't have many hobbies that are physical.

 

I used to run track and go to the gym, but these days I've been too busy to due to school and my full-time job. Most of my free-time is spent indoors, like playing online games, video games, chatting online, scrap-booking. etc...

 

I don't have any fun clubs that I belong to or hobbies where I can meet women offline. Do you have any suggestions as to where I can find single available women?

 

What else should I do to make myself seem more interesting and attractive online?

[JadedStar]

I think the best thing is maybe just omit the scrapbooking and online gaming hobbies until getting to know someone better.

 

I know it makes the women sound perhaps superficial but first communications are critical with online dating, and i admit i think it would be a turn off to hear the guy likes scrapbooking and online gaming as his top hobbies.

 

It's not that you have to not do those things, I would just omit them from your initial emails and see if that yields more results. For all of us, there are somethings we do or like that is better not spoken aobut until we actually get to know someone.

[QuietWolf]

If you insist on being on line so much, at least get out of the house to do it. Go to a coffee bar that offers free wireless and do your online stuff there. Don't live in a cave.

 

Try learning a new sport, take one day a week, and don't game on that day, and instead devote that time to a sport. Seal Beach is in San Diego right? There is tons of sports you could take up, tennis, frisbee, climbing, swiming, windsurfing, regular surfing, sailing, fishing. See if your college offers recreation courses, or try the local craigslist sports and recretion section, etc.

 

I'm not into playing computer games, so I don't have much advice in that area, but maybe see if there is a meetup (link removed) in your area for the kind of games you like.

 

-- edit --

 

Oh yeah, you said you don't have much time for the gym? ...but you are in school? Go to the gym, and ride the stationary bike or do the stairmaster, and do some of your reading there. I used to do that - it was great way to get in some excercise and also get your required reading done.

[Cassie]

If that is a photo of you in your profile (which I am assuming it is ), you are not unattractive. Are you shy?

 

Your initial emails are very thoughtful, detailed and serious - but, this might also turn off some women initially. Try a slightly lighter approach. I would also scrap the whole scrapbooking spiel.

 

During an opening correspondence, you want to intrigue her and build value. Focus on the positives (solid career, goal orientated, importance of family, exciting cool job building a Mars rover, or whatever you'd call it, lol), but find a way to keep it fun and flirty.

[nuttybuddy]

i agree with the above posters....

 

your first email to your prey is screaming out things that are just not too enticing.....

 

scrapbooking = bible?! (shows how much u really like that! and unless she really likes it, she'll have to disagree with you there. i don't think many girls feel the same way about it as you do.)

 

cats = lonely single (some women may have cats too and may like it, but others may not like having pets AT ALL... so do u want to ward off the ones who do not like cats??? I guess if u can't part with your cats and u choose cats over the woman, then u could mention it.)

 

condo = attractive (that's one attractive thing u mentioned. it shows that u have enough money to even afford one. And condo's are generally cleaner than apts.)

 

Mars blah blah blah = boring (unless the woman specifically showed interest in wanting to know the details about what u do, please don't volunteer that information. it's a bit too much in a first email.)

 

gaming, sci-fi = a trekkie?!?! ( unless your woman is a trekkie herself, she would not find this aspect a positive quality. in fact, u should try to keep hidden as long as u can. when a woman finds out that u are into these things, she immediately associates it with "geeky.")

 

do u watch any movies? maybe u could mention the most recent movie u went to see.... (probably transformers....if i had to guess. hehe) but don't rave about transformers. just mention that u saw it and it was fun. she'll understand that u went to see it since it is the summer blockbuster.

 

btw, if you're so busy with full-time job and getting a Masters degree at the same time, how are u planning on handling a relationship on top of all that work??? relationship isn't something u should take lightly. it's also is a lot of work. and if u don't put in enough effort, you will neglect the woman and she will dump u and break your heart.

 

so i would say, just get your life in order first. you have too much going on right now. finish up your masters. then, maybe u should try online search again. i think u just want to have someone around cuz you're lonely... but that shouldn't be the reason why u go into a relationship. if you're lonely, make some friends, bring them over and hang out.

[Batya33]

I agree with cassie and the others. I find your email a bit too stilted and rehearsed - I would prefer a quick paragraph that says - I liked what you said in your profile about ______ and hopefully we can get to know each other better (I much prefer talking to typing so hopefully that will be by phone).

 

 

I would be turned off by the cats and the scrapbook - sounds like a letter a girl would write. Sorry if that sounds sexist.

[Tory]

Thanks for the great responses, guys. I'll keep that 'quick paragraph' and nuttybuddy's advice in mind.

 

And thanks for the compliment, Cassie.

[Tory]

Well, another three weeks (almost a whole month) has gone by.

 

And still no dates, no offers, no e-mail messages, nothing.

 

And to answer your question, Cassie. Yes I am shy, EXTREMELY shy! Which is why I'm thinking about giving up on dating for the rest of my life, and focus all my time and energy on my career and my video game hobby at home.

[Cassie]

Hi Tory -

 

I'm sorry to hear about your dry patch. Have you actively pursued anyone?

[Tory]

I have e-mailed about 20 women the past 21 days on link removed and still not a single one of them wrote anything back to me.

 

I haven't pursued anyone outside of link removed since I don't meet many girls where I live and I'm not allowed to date anyone at work. Plus I don't know how to pursue or ask a girl out in person, let alone know how to approach somebody in person that I'm personally interested in.

[Cassie]

Hmm, twenty women without a reply seems bizarre.

 

What tone are you setting with your opening message?

[servedcold]

First email should be very short, no more than a paragraph. Mention three things in her profile, make a brief comment about each, ask a question about each. No dramatic statements or declarations of interest. Realize that much greater than 50% of women on dating sites aren't truly available. If you don't match their criteria exactly, don't bother writing. If they haven't logged on in a week or more, don't write. The ones that are truly available and attractive have a bloated sense of their own desirability (understandably) because they get so many emails. It is definitely a female biased market, but hey, we can work with that!

 

The model looking guys with high incomes are the only ones who get responses without hard work, but most of them are liars, so eventually after being used/lied to, some of the women wise up and start paying attention to the normal/real guys. Or they throw up their hands and say "every man dating on the net is a liar" then give it up altogether, without ever having gone out with a guy in their "league" LOL.

 

Your profile should be brief, clever and with no grammatical errors. Get rid of all unflattering pics, women will nix you on a single bad pic. Once you get a response, send a brief follow up email asking for the phone number. On the first call, ask for a casual date, something active, never a movie or dinner. Puttputt is good, museums, walks, etc. Once you get good at it, if you are good on the phone, they will start calling you immediately after the first phone call and ask you out if you haven't set a date already. The key to good phone is talking to them like you talk to a woman you've known a long time, kidding, joking, sounding dynamic, and keeping the conversations short. Never talk about downers or serious topics in the early convos (or on dates for that matter), unless there is a REALLY funny story involved. If you are a really bad writer or bad on the phone, net dating may not be best for you.

 

Realize that most of us aren't models with professionally done photos. Other than a few age/weight liars, the women I have met from online were much better looking in person than their pics. I had several dates with out and out bad pics turn out to be drop dead gorgeous in person, some of the more "real" women purposefully do this I think, which I think is smart on their part. Is it possible that you are going after only the ones with great pictures? That is a big mistake.

 

Another big mistake is mailing women outside their age and height reqs, a 5'5" woman who wants a 6' or taller man is shallow as a mud puddle anyway, as is a woman (or man) who won't even consider someone 2-3 years older than they are, so no worries missing out on those, but don't waste mail on them. Remember that anything greater than a 20% response rate is excellent for most guys, it's a numbers game. When I get back into it, I will likely send out 100 or so emails in my geographic area and work with the 20-30 responses I get back, date 5-10 of em and select a new GF out of that 5-10. Remember YOU are the prize, not them, this attitude is key.

 

There's much much more to it, these are the raw basics, if you have specific issues, ask them and I'll try to address them. Hope this helps some. Best wishes.

[Tory]

This is the gist of the latest e-mail I sent out about a week ago:

 

"I liked what you said in your profile about your many jobs and your religion. According to my grandma, my family has been Catholic since the Roman empire.

 

Your profile really caught my eye and I enjoyed your dry sense of humor. I like to joke around and laugh at myself sometimes, since it helps me maintain a healthy, positive perspective on life.

 

You sound very accomplished for someone your age. I would like to get to know more about your various companies, especially the one you personally own. Hopefully, we can get to know each other better (I prefer talking to typing, so hopefully that will be by phone). In the mean time, you can e-mail me at home at:

 

...................

 

Hope to hear from you soon.

 

~ Tory Ficarola"

 

Still no response back in 6 days. I could cite some other examples but you basically get the point of the usual 'initial e-mail' format I've been using these past few days on link removed.

[shyguy1]

Online dating is tough... trust me as I had no luxk with it either.

 

What can you do?

 

Well taking the advice of the posters on here is a start.

 

I will say your emails sound well thought out and genuine to me, so not sure why you haven't had better luck with responses.

 

You have a lot of helpful people here, i only wish I had known about this site when I was doing the online dating thing.

 

Let us know how things go and please keep us updated.

 

Any positive reactions, might be enough to get some of us who gave up.. back on the online dating wagon.

[dqueen]

Hmm. Well, I think maybe you're telling too much about yourself like in the email you sent her. Try to be a bit mysterious. You can tell them your hobbies and stuff but then you go off on tangents here and there (photo album, scrapbooking being your "Bible", NASA, etc.) I'm not being harsh...it's just that you don't want to tell them TOO much and scare them off, know what I mean?

 

Just keep it short and simple and to the point. Even a simple "Hi, you have a lovely smile and an interesting profile" should get you a response back (I hope!). Getting too wordy can scare off some women.

 

Online dating through profiles is tough. I have never gone down that route myself. I actually prefer *engaging* in conversation with people to get to know them better like in chat rooms, online forums. Why don't you try hanging out in forums/online discussion groups based on your hobbies? There has to be something for scrapbooking enthusiasts, or forums for people interested in astronomy, etc.

 

Good luck!

[Tory]

Thanks for all the great advice, guys. Especially yours, servedcold.

 

I guess I went about online dating the wrong way and was a little too anxious and was trying too hard with my e-mails. Being a short 5'6" dude has also been a tremendous handicap for me, as well as not being athletic and outgoing.

 

I never realized online dating was such a game. i guess it's time to read the writing on the wall and accept the fact that I will always be alone. Oh well, so much for "never ventured, nothing gained".

[Batya33]

Many of my friends had serious boyfriends, married men who were 5"6 or under. My boyfriend is 5"5 - I prefer shorter men. He's had girlfriends both taller and shorter than him.

[dietrying]

Hmm...well personally I like a guy with cats.

 

I think it's great that you mentioned things from her profile, I'd just try to cut it down to a few sentences at first so it will be easier to reply to.

[servedcold]

Don't give up on online dating, it's a very efficient way to meet compared to approaching women out, but you should do that also as it will boost your comfort level and that goes a long way towards confidence.

 

Resignation is the only guarantee of being alone. Height is definitely an issue, but use it to your advantage to screen out the shallow. The ones your height and shorter who won't date you merely because of that are the ones you do not want for a meaningful relationship, trust me.

 

Don't really tell anything about yourself in emails. The key is to make them curious enough to want to find out more. If you have read the woman's profile carefully (and so many guys don't), it is a great opportunity to find out more about her by asking a few brief questions, humorous if possible. I sense that you may be adopting an apologetic attitude about your hobbies and height to an extent with your dates/contacts. If so, you are sabotaging your efforts. Best wishes.

[Pegasus]

Tory,

 

dating (online or not) is always a game. ALWAYS. It took me a lot of time to see that, but now it's working.

 

First, don't throw so much technical stuff in your emails. 99% of women don't really care what you do, specially if you're an engineer. That's why 99.999% important inventions were done by men. You can't change it, just accept it, it's just the way it is.

 

Second, you don't "sound" fun at all. When it comes to dating, to 90% of women fun is all they look for and they can't read that from your email(and I bet the same is with your profile). Make it more fun (life) and your profile will be more fun.

 

Good luck,

P.

[MissIndigo]

I don't do online dating, but I have to say you do sound passionate about the work you do, which I think is great. I have trouble holding back on my geek talk when I meet new people (guys or gals, never mind potential dates!), and have to remember to tone it down a bit. (I do cancer research for a living, and while I realize people find it an interesting topic, and it's often the first thing they ask me about, it's hard to not get too technical about it.)

 

I don't mean to sound elitist or exclusive here, but do you think you'd click better with someone in a field similar to yours? In all honesty, the most successful couples I know who are in technical fields are two of a kind, with similar backgrounds, and the most successful relationships I've had have been with those who understand the demands of my work. That's always translated into someone in a similar field as me.

[jenny_mcs]

What kinds of women are you e-mailing? I get a sense from what you've written that you might do better with someone your age or older.

 

Also, do the people on this site list their profession/education/field of work? I think you would do better with women who are also in technology/science-realted fields.

 

You mentioned in your original post that you are conservative- try browsing profiles for women who also describe themselves as conservative.

 

I also live in southern California, and there is one gal I work with who is quite conservative, and she is always lamenting the fact that all the men she meets are so liberal and left-leaning.

 

So, I think you should try repsonding to women in their 30's who are in a similar field and identify as conservative.