Romance, too much of a good thing

[Cardinal]

If you look back at all my postings in this section, you will find my mind is usually on sex. I am happy to say I have had a romantic thought and would like you share it with you all

 

Last night my girlfriend and I discussed some issue we have been having in our relationship. One of the topics we addressed related to romance.

 

My girlfriend tends to emanate romanticism.

 

I have never been particularly romantic. I can show affection, emotions like love, caring etc. without coming accross as romantic. I am more than capable of being romantic toward her. It is the receiving end of the spectrum where the problem lies. I tend to seek the bond of friendship moreso than romanticism. I also much appreciate sexual affection of any kind. Our relationship doesn't seem to be based on friendship. Her romantic tendencies are so strong that I feel uncomfortable around her. She also often shows me a constant level of attention and does anything she possibly can to shower me with more romantic affection. I like receiving attention and affection, but 'pure' romanticism every minute we are together started to effect my attraction toward her (to put it mildly). In short, I feel she showers me with romantic affection that I really don't need or want. I like the feelings we share, just not the overt romanticism.

 

The only conclusion we came to is that I will need to learn how to accept more romantic affection. I tend to agree with that but am at a complete loss as to how to approach it? We have been dating four months. I haven't fallen in love with her yet. I definitely care for her, but something is keeping me from feeling a greater emotional closeness. We are both good about getting our problems out in the open, but not as good at coming up with workable solutions. Compromise in this case seems easier said than done. Or is it?

 

Since I have made her aware of the problem, she may be able to modify her actions somewhat. But I doubt she will want to modify her romantic feelings in any way. On my side of things, I haven't figured out how to enjoy accepting romanticism like that. I definitely haven't figured out how to avoid the negative emotions associated with getting too much of a good thing like that.

[musicguy]

Romance can help make a relationship last. There needs to be more romance in relationships, not just sex all the time

[WhiteForest]

I agree with musicguy...you just have to have romance to maintain a good relationship.

[Cardinal]

I know I do tend to place sex as a high priority in a relationship. I have a strong drive and I look for compatibility there. However, in the four months we have been together, at best we have sex twice a week. We have had sex maybe 15 times total (just a guess).

 

Keep in mind she doesn't have a problem with the level of romance she is getting from me. No issue there. It is the amount and kind of romantic affection she is giving me that is the issue. Of course romance is important for a healthy relationship. But I feel I don't need or want very much of it. I like a lot of emotional closeness, a lot of feeling, expression of thought and generally happiness but I don't get that from overly done romantic affection. That sort of affection does almost nothing for me.

 

Outside of a more active sex life, what I miss most is friendship with my S/O. We have few common interests and due to several issues (verbal communication difficulties and this romance issue), sometimes I have trouble enjoying her company.

[musicguy]

Spice it up a little bit. Women like to be romanced and there are a lt of guys who need Romance 101 and there are guys who have never had romantic things done to them...BUT..being romantic can really wow! your partner

[Cardinal]

I am not sure you are understanding me. She doesn't want or need more romance from me. It is the way she is expressing her romantic feelings for me that I have a problem with.

 

You are right that I haven't had many romantic things done to me, and when it happens all the time, I feel very uncomtortable and often and fully turned-off by the excessiveness of it.

[WhiteForest]

How long has it been since you talked to her about this?

[Cardinal]

We had a very long discussion about it last night actually. There is nothing I have written here that I haven't discussed with her directly. If anything we both feel better after talking about things like this. We just are not so clear on how to make it better.

[WhiteForest]

Did she agree to let up a little? I'm getting the impression from your original post and the fact that it was a long discussion that she didn't necessarily agree with you.

[Cardinal]

No she didn't agree to let up any. She primarily wants me to get used to it. She has shown that she can modify her actions though when problems arise. Now that she is fully aware of it all, she may stop doing some of it. She is not as unbending as I make it sound, but she does have a lot of pride and has probably learned for her past to stick up for herself quite well and not give in easily. She is kind of stubborn like I am.

 

I can't really control her (wouldn't want to per se), but I can do my part and work on my end of things. Just need an approach or a better understanding of it all.

[Zampotne]

I think there is something that you need to address here besides the fact that she makes you uncomfortable--

 

you stated you don't enjoy her company. sure, you care for her, etc- but you don't enjoy her company? you don't have things in common? i think the problem that she is showing you all of this romantic attention is the least of your problems. plus you have only been together for 4 months. it sounds like she is really into the relationship and you aren't. why would you want to be with someone you don't want to be around?

[Batya33]

It sounds like you are having trouble falling for her because you find her needy and the "romantic" stuff a bit overwhelming.

[Cardinal]

it sounds like she is really into the relationship and you aren't. why would you want to be with someone you don't want to be around?

 

She keeps a very positive attitude that sometimes makes her oblivious to problems in a relationship (her words).

 

I am still with her because I see potential and I think we can improve. She is very loving and caring and has excellent morals/values. Compared to other women I have dated, she shows a very high level of commitment. Not just to me, but to relationships in general. I feel she will take actions to try and make it work. She is not trying to hurt me or be negative in any way. Overall both she and her family are very good people. That is also why I am with her.

 

I admit we seems to be fairly incompatible in several areas now. But I am too stubborn to just jump ship because things don't happen to be working out like I want them to at the moment. Conflict resolution doesn't happen if you just turn tail and run so quickly.

[Cardinal]

It sounds like you are having trouble falling for her because you find her needy and the "romantic" stuff a bit overwhelming.

 

She considers herself needy and clingy and has brought that up to me in the past. For some reason, I don't see her as needy or clingy. I am thinking it is more the negative emotions I sometimes feel when I am around her due to the romance thing and due to our communication issues in general.

 

We have quite a few 'typical' guy/girl relationship troubles. I have significant trouble expressing myself verbally. She has major difficulties communicating non-verbally. I can read her feelings quite easily. She often misreads me and makes quite a few assumptions that just aren't accurate. It is frustrating for both of us.

[RayKay]

I wonder if part of the reason you don't like the romanticism is either as you feel you do not "deserve it" (either due to your own personal issues, or because you are not on same level with it as her) or if because to you it seems "false" in the sense that it is about "proving" her feelings rather than living them. In this way, you may worry she "idealizes" relationships in a sense.

 

I feel it may be the latter more than the former based on the fact you stated you like attention/affection but not the "pure" romanticism; and that you stated you seek a base of friendship over what this romanticism is creating. And of course, a solid base of friendship is very important.

 

In that sense, I can see why it may bother you she does it frequently, and this relationship is still quite new, so it can add subconscious pressure when she is this overly romantic when your own feelings have not quite "caught up" yet...this is also what will hold you back and keep you distant.

 

While yes, you should "accept" this part of her nature, it is also the case that she should know that TOO much of it makes you feel kinda cornered. You appreciate the affection/attention but sometimes you want her to just BE with you, rather than "proving" to you.

[Cardinal]

KayRay,

 

Very perceptive. You are right. It is the latter. She definitely 'idealizes' romanticism and is doing far too much to 'prove' something she doesn't need to. I am the type that feels actions speak louder than words. Many times in the relationship, I have wanted to 'do' rather than just talk about doing. She is often very surprised by this. It is usually me that takes the initiative and is spontaneous. As far as I can tell, it doesn't have anything to do with deserving or not deserving the attention. I don't think I have any issues there.

 

My feelings definitely haven't caught up yet. You are also right in that when I don't feel any pressure, when a woman isn't at all sappy (or doesn't fish for compliments) it becomes very easy for me to be able to express my emotions to her. I haven't been able to do that so easily with my g/f. And it is also actually holding me back on developing the feelings too.

[Cardinal]

One of the biggest things that bothers me is that I get this feeling that she isn't very good at understand and fulfilling my needs. Certainly this isn't for lack of effort. I get romanticism in a way that I don't want and need. And it seems the things I really feel I need (close friendship, sexual affection for example), she doesn't proffer.

 

On the flipside, she does seem to be quite happy in that it seems I am fulfilling her needs fairly well. I am nowhere near perfect and I know she is looking through rose-colored contacts to an extent. I am just not sure how well she understands friendship as opposed to relationships. I am often good friends with people because I know how to appeal to certain needs that they have. I feel she has a very different conception of friendship than I do.

 

Some elements of a good friendship are there with her (ethics, morals, e.g. respect, trust, caring etc). Others are somewhat lacking. When I think of my friends, the possibility that I might go see them is always very exciting. It makes me very happy. I feel really comfortable around them. I don't always get that feeling with my g/f.

 

It definitely bothers me that spending a lot of time with my g/f isn't so appealing to me often. When we spend days together, it can get really annoying. At this point, there is no way I would consider living with her. We wouldn't mesh.

[RayKay]

It is quite possible that the newness/sexual attraction/infatuation are covering up a deep incompatibility that you are starting to see yourself...that you are incompatible in friendship.

 

Friendship truly is the base for all strong, healthy relationships. This does not mean you must be friends before you DATE, but it does mean that friendship has to develop within the relationship. It is this friendship that brings togetherness, that allows you to laugh together in times of stress, and to be one anothers support, confidante, etc. It is also what gets you through together when maybe there are doubts about the relationship, etc.

 

I get the feeling this romanticism is a cover for her neediness and clinginess....while she does not appear to you at this stage to be that way (over time this will be more apparent) and when she does it it may be in hopes of reciprocation as she needs the reassurance. This of course is just a guess as I don't know her, or you....but if it is that over the top and all the time, it is often to hide our own insecurities or to get reassurance...because we are not so confident we can be loved for whom we really are.

[Cardinal]

In the past, apparently she has had significant problems with independence and with being clingly and needy. To what extent this is true, I can only conjecture at this point. It is 100% possible that I am just not seeing it. She also says she is getting better with that. So she may be able to hide it since she is consciously trying not to be clingy or needy as a self-improvment mechanism.

 

I am piecing together our incompatibilities. Over the last two weeks, I have had a few ah ha moments. I have noted a lack of the friendship element in the past with her. Now I feel like I understand it better. That understanding of the situation could go either way. I do agree that if a better friendship doesn't develop, our relationship will likely falter.

 

Even now I do have trouble confiding in her. She has led quite a sheltered life in many respects. While I can talk with her about anything, that doesn't imply that she will understand what I am saying. I definitely need to work on establishing a stronger intellectual connection with her. It is very important that I be able to listen to her. She needs to vent and needs someone to talk to without necessarily needing a problem solver. I do what I can to provide for that need. However, I don't need to vent. I like to analyze things and see just how deeply I can understand them. In this respect she and I are worlds apart.

 

In short, we both have aspects of our relationship that we want to explore and improve. That attitude and willingness is what makes me think things can get a lot better, incompatibilities nothwithstanding.

[amtjrtcet]

It sounds like you are having trouble falling for her because you find her needy and the "romantic" stuff a bit overwhelming.

 

I think I too would be a little overwhelmed. If she's pouring out all this romance and affection, constantly, with no break....well then when would you even be given the opportunity to be "romantic".

 

Sounds a little smothering to me. That's how I'd feel anyway

[-Ophelia-]

I'd be turned off if some guy romanced me more than he should in our relationship's initial stage.

 

I believe that this must only come later when we're both sure we're right for each other, otherwise I'd suspect that he's trying to buy me with romance. It's just a matter of is he romancing the right person (me) or not?

 

I'd think over doing it means that it's just fake. I mean, I don't believe in that kind of love. To me, even though it's emotional, love is also rational.

 

It's one BIG turn on, when he starts romancing me at the right stage of the relationship. The time when too much romance is never too much.

 

Perhaps that's why it turns you off?

[Cardinal]

Ophelia,

 

Both the amount and timing of it are causing problems. Certainly, if it were later in the relationship and I loved her with everything I have/were considering marrying her, I would be a lot more receptive. Even then I think a person can take it too far.

[Snowflower]

I'm curious, would someone mind explaining what is meant here by "romance"? Examples etc.?

It's just that this has always been a bit of a vague and elusive term for me. What does this girl do that is defined as overly "romantic"?

[musicguy]

I'd love it of a girl romanced me

[Cardinal]

I like to think of being romantic as knowing what the other person likes and doing it for them because I care.

 

I'm curious, would someone mind explaining what is meant here by "romance"? Examples etc.?

It's just that this has always been a bit of a vague and elusive term for me. What does this girl do that is defined as overly "romantic"?

 

I posted this on another forum. I am glad you asked b/c our conception of overly romantic may be quite different. I'll repost what actions I am talking about specifically:

 

Some of the time, when she starts to be affectionate, she will talk continuously. She speaks to me exactly like a mother speaks to a little baby much of the time. Literally baby talk, goo-goo ga ga almost. This is because she was a nanny for several years and it is an engrained habit. She knows she does it but can't seem to control it very well.

 

When we kiss, she rarely opens her mouth. She will tend to give me little bird pecks more than anything and about 1/2 the time she will kiss both cheeks very lightly and then a light peck on the lips. She likes to rub noses often (fine by me) but doesn't seem to want to shift her nose to the side much of the time for a normal full mouth style kiss.

 

A lot of the things she says come accross as quite mushy and cheesy. It is more the way she says them that what she says specifically. We both enjoy being close to each other and holding each other (I love to cuddle). However, she never feels or shows the slightest bit of sexual arousal with any of her actions when we are close. I never feel passion from her, or sexual chemistry during these times. I give her foot and body massages nearly every time I see her. She doesn't get turned on by this at all. Rather, she sees it as pampering (can easily continue talking about her day when I give her a butt massage etc).

 

She is also very much into glamour. She looks almost starry eyed a lot of time. For lack of a better description, it 'feels' like she is going ga-ga over me... I get constant compliments that are not anywhere near reality...she says it in an almost dreamy way. This has more or less been the case since we met. She tends to prance around a lot and is very dainty with her hands. Often she would rather admire the way I look (with or without clothes) rather than actually do anything about it. She also wants the same from me. When she is on top of me, more than anything she is looking for me to admire the way she moves and looks. She wants me more to gasp in aw than to actually do something with her physical.