John25

Thanks for the reply tiger_lilies! I kind of agree with what you say and have been thinking along similar lines. Coming to think of it, I did forget to mention that she "signed up" to go on vacation with my brother, his girlfriend and myself next year which could be considered a signal, but then again she is in a stage of her life where she wants to experience new things and make changes and she has been wanting to travel far, but never done so in the past. thereforeeee, again, I am not sure how much "meaning" it has. I agree that the most logical way of seeing is is that she should make the move, but I am not sure how shy she'd be or even if she is not possibly too blind to see that i am attracted to her. You really thin k it'd be better to wait? My horror scenario would be to meet her in 10 years and hear her say what a crush she had on me back in the ol' days hehe

Ok, I probably write this above all to sort my own head out , but any comments or advice would be most welcome! Thanks for taking the time to read this! Here goes: Basically, there is a girl at work who I have known for two years, and over the past six months we have got to know each other much better and I would say that we have been flirting (though don't you find the boundaries between "flirting" and being nice in a companion way are kinda vague?). Keep in mind that for a year and a half we barely spoke ever, with us only having "connected" over the past 6 months... These are the "flirty" signals that have appeared over the past six months 1. When she walks past my workplace she will always look over with a big smile, and I will respond with a smile as well. 2. She will periodically appear at my work-place to have a little chat. I also noticed that she semed to be "around" me more when we are out at birthday parties etc of co-workers. 3. Three months ago we started having coffee together each day, alone. , chatting away. We also started leaving work together and walking together till the subway stop she has to use.. 4. We go through periods of sending each other funny/playful emails with attached pics etc... Through these mails we started inventing (hard to explain hehe) funny "names" for each other. (though to be fair, the mailing initiative is more mine than hers) 5. We have on 3-4 occasions stayed behind to chat more after the others have left when going out with co-workers to have a few beers. 6. We have met up a month ago or so to spend a whole evening alone together in various bars, chatting away. I mean, we were having kinda "deep" conversations about life, opinions and stuff and no real "flirty" talk, but we spend time alone that midweek day from 5 p.m. to about 1 a.m.... 7. Now in summer, with work having slowed to all but a halt here, we are spending perhaps 2 hours a day at work chatting about this and that, checking funny or interesting websites together etc... I am sure there have been perhaps a signal or two more, but anyway the gist is that my relationship with this girl changed drastically over the past six months. Now let me highlight the things that make me slightly more pessimistic regarding the situation: 1. She has a boyfriend... of 5 years no less!! It's worth mentioning here that she has made comments at work to co-workers from time to time that suggest that she isnt necessarily 100% happy, but she has never made outright hints that she would drop him soon. You see this guy is kind of weird, they have a kind of relaxed relationship where each can do what they want (within limits of course)... no jealousy involved. This guy doesnt even know most of her friends! She has been kind of fed up with this, but on the other hand she seems to value "freedom" a lot and he definitely gives her this... too much so perhaps. 2. I have, from time to time, dropped fairly clear hints regarding my interest in her, for example by suggesting to her we should take salsa classes together (definitely openly flirty, no?) or that we should go horseriding together sometime. She hasnt really gone for these ideas 100%, though she did say salsa classes could be interesting and that we could go horseriding with a group of friends that also wanted to go. What I am sayting is that I gave her a few opportunities to accept a clearer "date" without asking her out directly... and the response has been kind of mixed and unclear and vague. 3. We are not talking about a traditional girl here, but about a pretty modern girl with an artistic/creative background who sees things differently in many ways compared to most other girls. Not only does she have this flexible freedom relationship with her current boyfriend (cause she hated her ex-boyfriends jealousy) but I also think that she has had a boy or two as friends before etc... She has some pretty logical but quite modern ideas and philosophies, making her hard to judge. Now then, this is more or less my situation. The dilemma is that I get these signals on the one hand, but that the above points make me slightly pessimistic regarding her response in the event of me telling her how I feel about her. She is very special, intelligent, great looking... I really like to be with her and I have even started missing her when I go away for a few vacation days! My problem is that the boundaries between love and friendship are sometimes not so clear (which i presume is why its not uncommon that "best" friends end up sleeping with their best friends if of opposite sex), and given that she works 5 metres from my desk at work I would hate to mess things up. Basically, I want clarity, but clarity could be kind of dodgy if the reply is negative when you work together hehe.. Rejection is bad enough in itself, but when you work together and have built up the promise of friendship, there is even more to loose... I am not sure what to do... I am not sure if I read too much into the "flirty" signals listed above, or whether I would in fact be stupid not to approach her. I could try to move on and have just a friendship with her, but it's not every day that you come accross a girl you really like and value, and I have been single for a year... Any advice or comments? Many thanks for reading! John

I think the most important thing is to take something away from every break-up... I mean, you should always learn your lesson, although it would also be wrong to solely put all the blame on yourself. You virtually always need two people for a relationship to fail. Anyway, I just wanted to bump this thread once as it's been just over a month for me now since I split up with my girlfriend and I can positively confirm that things get brighter fairly quickly. I still have an odd feeling from time to time in my stomach, but I feel much more positive now and I am bveginning to see things as a new start. I have kicked some bad habbits (biting nails, lip solve addiction hehe etc), bought myself a new car and next week I'm gonna sign up in a gym to get in shape. Also been out a lot, meeting lots of fresh faces and generally having a good time. quintana, To be honest, I think the outlook you giuve there is rather pessimistic. In fact, most people I know were really enjoying their lives 100% just 2-3 months after their breaking up, and personally I already consider myself semi-healed after only 6 weeks or so. In any case, things improve very quickly for most people after the initial shock is gone. You can still have a quiet emotional cry very infrequently even years after splitting up (i had this with my ex-ex girlfriend) but that's not really related to any real suffering... just fond memories. Besides, your recovery time definitely depends on your exact relationship.... a 10yr marriage is definitely more difficult to leave behind than a girl you went out with for four years who lived in your neighbourhood. The only real advice I can give people is to try to not to get dragged into a self-pity spiral, because that is, in the end, what people cry about after a relationship ends... Look on the bright side: the world is also in many ways more beatiful when you finally have your eyes open again. I can definitely confirm that breaking up is an opportunity for personal growth!

Sieteblades, Of course living physically close to your ex makes things harder... that's where I have it easy as my girlfriend lives in England and I live in Spain. Don't get me wrong though, even though I live far away I am still not having an easy time. Everywhere I go there is this ghost of her.... I sleep in the bed we slept in together for gods sake... but what I do, or at least try to do, is every time I notice myself starting to 'think' about her I just cut it off now and focus my thoughts on something else. It's just that I have come to this conclusion in my mind that any further painfull thoughts about her are are not gonna change my situation at all, so I just try not to have them. It is important not to let your sentimental side take hold of you. It's easy to become sentimental... heck, if I wanted to and thought about it long enough I could now make myself cry even over my ex-ex girlfriend from 7 years ago. You know what I mean? Detaching is all about acceptance. Just try to sit down for an evening and let it run through your head again. Try to think about the fact that she has moved on and is with someone else, hence there is no way you will get her back (or even want her back?). Try to come to terms with yourself, try to come to some form of genuine conclusion in your mind that you accept that she is gone from your life and wont be coming back to you. And most importantly, try to start shifting your focus from her to yourself, and with this I dont mean crying about your poor fortune. I mean you should slowly shift your focus from your past to your future. I know it is hard, myself I am still having a hard time imagining chatting up girls etc, but you are still young and there is so much out there for you. Give yourself some opportunity to work yourself into a new episode of your life... perhaps take up a new hobby or something, or get to meet new people, go travelling, make new plans for the future etc. You have freedom now, make use of it, as before long you will slip into a new relationship and the first thing you will complain about if your lack of freedom I'd love to wish you 'good luck', but this really isnt a case of luck at all, it's just about controlling your thoughts and getting a hold of yourself. Nearly every person on this planet has to go through this at least once in their life, there is no reason why you should be the odd one out that cant cope. quintana, Yes, I know that many people need a much longer time than me, but like you said I believe that it has helped that I did see things develop towards a break-up over time. Trust me, it hasnt been easy and still isnt for me, but in the end, like with all things, there is a rational element even to something as emotional as a relationship. I am a firm believer of rationality, which doesnt mean to say that I am not emotional. Like I said, I have the same tendency to let all these emotional thoughts flood me, but it is just that I have come to terms with the situation in a way by letting the rationality of it all convince me. My girlfriend is gone and I know I wont be with her again. This seals it for me. Yes, there are lessons to be learned but trust me, you dont think you need a year of thinking to reach your conclusions. I have reached mine within a week... Embracing the pain may be helpful, but you do need to see the line between embracing the pain and slipping into utter self-pitty. I for one have noticed that the only reason I get upset is that I feel sorry for myself... my thoughtsd wont change my break-up, so the only reasonable thing to do seems to learn your lesson and move on to pastures new. Notably, the more I stop myself from slipping into "thinking mood" the less frequent my emotional outburst seem to become. I still feel bad, but I am getting better. Trust me, sadness doesnt go from crying alone. I agree that the crying plays an important part at first, but in the long run the only way to move on is stopping yourself from lingering on your own self-pitty or anger. Moving on means stopping to romanticise your relatyionship and stopping to sentimentalise yourself.

EatZ, Thanks for the reply. Of course I agree that, given the kind of emotions you go through right after splitting up, my comments may be hard to take to heart or even in many cases unhelpful. Like I said, I have just split up myself and I am all but happy right now. For me so far the process has been like this: - Pre-Split up (3 weeks): This was a horrible time when I first noticed just how close to splitting up we were. Lots of bad nights, little concentration at work. Lots of soul searching for mistakes I'd made, lots of urge to "rectify" things. Despair at seeing girlfriend so distant etc. - Split-up day: Crying, crying, crying, and more crying. Being sentimental, having "I wish I had/hadn't" thoughts. Writing an emotional letter to my ex, opening my heart, telling her the things I never told her etc. Bad day! - Days 2-3: Progressively less tears, but still very sentimental. Letting the relationship pass before my eyes again and again, trying to find exactly how it progressed, when things changed etc. Trying to find out where we went wrong, coming to conclusions about certain things. During this time I'd sway between acceptance and wishful thinking. In the back of my mind I knew splitting up was for the better, but the idealised and biased picture of our good moments and happy days and our future potential would let some faint hope flicker up nevertheless. - Days 4-9: More and more acceptance and less sentimental thoughts. Reason is starting to take command and reason tells me to look at things how they really were, not how my tortured mind is now suggesting to me they were. Even now I still think about things and suffer about 70% of the day, but I am increasingly getting to the point where I feel that I have to let go, and to let go means stopping to idealise and be sentimental. It's the "good ole' days" syndrome: everything just seems so much rosier when you look back at it after a while or when youleave something behind. God, I remember hating every day at school but when I think about school nowadays then everything appears so happy in my mind. It's mind tricks though, and not accurate... Easier said than done, I know, but to get over an ex-relationship I think it is primarily important to start seeing things in a realistic, less emotional way. It is crucial to view the positives as well: rather than only telling yourself over and over how great it was having him/her and what it could have been had you only not done this/that, you should see this break in your life as a new opportunity as well. Often things become stale in a relationship as you become so comfortable with the idea that your life is increasingly laid out in front of you that you completely forget to keep things dynamic. I for one have noticed how much I have increasingly been ignoring my past friends and even family over these past three years, and all of these are at least as important as the girlfriend is. It is nice, if difficult, to view the whole break-up as an opportunity to get back in touch with yourself and your life, to make a break and many changes. Yes, go and cry your eyes out till you can cry no more, and do take the time to think about it all a few times. However, dont dwell on it for too long, I say, as there is a fine line between "thinking about it a few times" and battering yourself into a pile of emotional disarray. It is always hard to loose something, particularly if something has played such an important part in your life as a girl/boyfriend, but do try to see things realistically because you will notice that life goes on and that, more often than not, things were not really as great as they seem now after you have split up. The world can be very harsh, but that is part of its beauty.

Reading through the posts here made me realise more and more just how much we tend to cling on to relationships when signs are mounting that things are coming to an end. Myself, I have just split up with my girlfriend of three and a half years a week ago, after a whole hard month of the typical "impending break-up signs". I have done a lot of soul searching over this time, and especially over the past week, and it has been hurting lots... but what most of you should realise is that the picture YOU have in YOUR mind right now, after splitting up, is probably so emotionally biased that it's not acurate at all. You are now probably thinking how great this was and that, and how you shared this and that, and how much you loved him/her and how the only thing in the world you want is having him/her back and how everything would be so different. However, 95% of you are dreaming and need to move on. You are painting an idealised unrealistic picture of your relationship in your head and this is preventing you from going out there and finding one of the other 3 billion boys and girls waiting for the same thing as you. You may think that loosing your other half has made you realise just how great he-she was, but in my opinion most of you are just suffereing a very diustorted relationship picture now which makes the thought of getting back together all that much more appealing. Take it from me: 90% of the relationships that break up and then get back together will end up breaking up again in a matter of months, if not weeks or days. I am not saying that there aren't special cases out there in which trying again would make sense and in which people HAVE learned from their problems, but chances are that nearly ALL of you currently feel like that special case and that you should question how much of your romantic after-thoughts are truly accurate. Guys and girls, for me too it is hard to move on and even think about dating other people right now, but do consider just letting go and do try to think about your ex-relationship as it really was, not how it could/should have been.

Just an update: things have gone up and down... I was about to call it a day with my girlfriend but then really sat down and thought it over, trying to see her point of view and got to the conclusion that the real problem is that she must only see me as a source of jealousy, making her offish, and i see only her offishness, making me more insecure. Wrote her a mail stating her point of view and and mine, and seeking to communicate through this but again she was out, didnt even call when she got back home (highly unusual) and so she hasnt even read it yet. One week to go till our holiday together is set to begin, but again I am thinking I should dump her tomorrow and get this stress over and done with. I am willing to change things but i am esteemed enough to be hurt by her when i go from being the number 1 priority to some background hassle. There are many other girls out there...

Hi, thanks for the reply! No, I really do trust her, which is one of the comforting things as I can be mostly sure that what she is doing is harmless. Still, I have been disappointed by my ex-girlfriend before and I trusted her too.... under the influence of a lot of booze the world can be a different place for a few hours huh? My issue is not so much about me worrying that she may go off with someone. The primary issue is that our relationship has been ruled by the 'issues' i explained in my post, and they have damaged that feeling of certainty that makes life so much easier. See, if for the past two holidays we spent together everything had gone well 100% then I would not worry so much. But since we have been arguing so much that even I was considering making this summer holiday the "last test" so to speak, I dont feel quite so comfortable. I know that she loves me, but her reaction to the whole thing appears to go the other way: whereas I have tried to read up and think about what I can do to improve things, she is out every day getting pissed and when I come to see her to sttraighten things out, she comes out with a whole lot of "conclusions" that she has come to. The whole "going olut every day" thing seems to be some counter-reaction to me having been so insecure over the past two weeks. I could be wrong, but i doubt it. That leaves me with an additional problem: not only is there the sex issue to resolve... no, now I also have to worry about that change she is going through and where its gonna end. Going out lots may seem harmless, but when you go from going out once a week to going out every day in a matter of 2 weeks then I do get worried where its gonna end. And how far will her "counter reaction" go.... when I got upset that she went dancing salsa she obviously concluded to go out every day. Does that mean that I can now also expect her to flirt (as i hate flirting and she used to like doing it)? I know my insecurity has not made things better... i was hoping for some comfort from her but was met with her telling me that "she will dance more", "go out more" etc... it seemed like I am the enemy and I suddenly get demonized to being way worse than i ever really was. I just wonder what my reaction should be. I guess right now it's best to give her some room (or do you think i ought to be open with her?) , but I am curious how I should act when i meet her in two weeks. Funny thing is: girls will always advise you to be romantic, take flowers and gifts all the time, love her openly, praise her etc.... on the other hand, many guys make the experience that sucking up like that will get you nowhere. I guess you have to give the girl something to fight for too, but its hard doing that when you feel insecure and when you become aware of mistakes you have made...

Hi all! My girlfriend and I have been in a long-distance relationship (i.e. different countries) for just over three years. We lived together at uni for two years when she had another boyfriend, and were sort of good friends/flatmates, but in the last half year of uni time we got closer until one day it happened and we got together. It was not like a sexual attraction, but rather like good friends wanting to take it further. Ok then, so after a few months uni finished and I went to another country for language experience and working etc. At the time i was very flexible with lots of big plans in my head which upset her a lot, making her quite clingy. She always wanted my committment but i had so many plans and, to be honest, she seemed to have the "our love is impossible" attraction driving her crazy whilst I did not as much. I did care for her, but I was much more relaxed. This went on for a year or so, during which she visited me in all her holidays whilst, to be honest, I did not visit her that much. My life was very chaotic at the time. Anyway, over time I grew increasingly fond of her. My thoughts of her wanting to take it too far etc disappeared over time and I started committing. I dropped plans to possibly go to Japan for a year etc to fix a future time of moving in together. This made her happy, I guess, but probably took some of the "i cant have" attraction away. I did not notice negative changes, though, and to be honest: whilst it may sometimes be more practical to keep a girlfriend on her toes, you also want to make her happy and take her worries away. This was a pretty cool stage during which I was looking for a fixed job whilst she finished her teacher training course and went about looking for a place as a teacher. We still saw each other every time we could (i.e. perhaps once every three months, she would come for at least a week, in summer perhaps 4 weeks... basically every free holiday time she had... I also visited her from time to time but only weekends as i have very limited holiday) and spoke over tjhe phone every day). We had a firm relationship. Now then, slowly some silly but annoying issues started appearing in our relationship. Basically, whenever she would come to stay there were more and more days where she wanted no sex/was not in the mood/tired... the usual. I am not talking extremes here, still we would have sex every other day or so, but it felt unusual and it displeased me a lot. So we would argue, go to bed moody, which in turn made her feel less like having sex the next day, which in turn made me be more annoyed and unable to fulfill her emotionally, which in turn made her less in the mood and so on and so on. The thing is, frankly, in spite of having had two long-term relationships I seemingly knew nothing about girls and had the blind belief that they would see sex more or less the same as we guys do. She taught me a lot of things, told me she needed to feel sexy, flirt with me ovber the day etc to be in the mood, and I tried but when such advice comes from arguments and with such a stresful background it doesnt come accross right. I was willing to learn, but doing all these things without appearing to make too much of an obvious effort was difficult. So things didnt improve at all, really. We had a big row over thwe theme at christmas on holiday, and I wanted to make it right so I decided to take things further and make our visits to each other more frequent. Since christmas, thereforeeee, on-top of her seeing me every three months as usual for several weeks I went to see her after six weeks or so on weekends, thereforeeee we never had to be more than 6 weeks apart. Needless to say, we also speak every day on the phone. Still, though, the last two times she came to see me in April and May, the arguments over sex again overshadowed the otherwise pleasurable time and both times she left and there was a feeling that the holiday had not been all that great. So after that last time she was here in May I started being quite insecure as I felt that our relationship was suffering needlessly. I sent her a mail to write with her about the sex issue (sometimes easier than talking) but that died down pretty quikckly. Then, somehow, one day she was planning to go to a salsa bar with her collgues and somehow she mentioned tyhat she might dance with male colleagues and, i know it sound sstupid now looking back, but with all my insecurity it made me feel so uneasy and i mentioned it, and she got quite pissed off about it. I didnt tell her not to do it, i just said how i felt insecure and stuff. Anyway, when the day came that she went to the salsa place things went a bit wrong as her mum also left on holiday at the same time and I think the mixture of school term drawing to a close, her being alone at home, the presense of our 'issues' and the fact that her colleagues go out all the time (whereas she would go perhaps once a week with them for a proper night out and once or so to have "a drink" after work) somehow made her go out EVERY DAY. Yes, for the past two weeks she has gone our perhaps 10 times more than she ever did in the past three years, and whilst I know I come accross as being overjeralous, this change in attitude coupled with my current insecurity overt the "sex issue" just made things worse. I thereforeeee gave her a bit of a hard time, u know, being moody when she calls to say shes ho,me and stuff and I guess I called her more often than before, like earlier than usual to check if she will be home later or is going out. Of course this behaviour pissed her off, but my insecurity was just bad because we had these issues and all she seemed to do was going out whereas I was sitting at home reading "relationship self help books" to deepen my undertanding of her needs. Anyway, at some stage it struck home to me that I was being annoying and giving her a hard time and that this just made things worse so I planned a surprise visit for last weekend to appologize for all the trhings I have done wrong in the past. She accused me to come to "check up on her" but ok, in the end I came and I said sorry and brought her a present, even cried (unusual for me) when she said "i love you" before going to bed. She said she wanted to stay with me and that she loved me but that she had talked to a friend whose husband seemed very "controlling" ie what to wear etc and that she didnt want to end up like that. She said I seemed to have matured more than her and that she still feels young and wanting to enjoy herself. She also said it had been difficult keeping up a pretense personality for so long which she simply wasnt. I just seems like she suddenly things I am this boring guy who moans about the lack of sex all the time, doesnt let her go out, tells her not tjo wear this and that etc, when previously (i.e a few months ago) this had never been an issue for us. So now I am back here, my girlfdriend has still been out the past four days and it just seems like she is changed so much in a matter of 2 weeks. Needless to say, whilst I pretend otherwise and have stopped harassing her with calls and wait for her to call me when she gets back home from a night out, my insecurity just kind of got worse as this kind of personality change is not normal. I trust her and I dont think she woulc cheat on me, but right now with her being in this "i missed three years of my life and want to have fun again" stage, I feel more threatened than ever before. In two weeks time we are going to spend a five week long holiday together, and I just dont know how i should act. I was planning on lighting her fire and trying to get her sexuality up again and being a much more attentive tio the little things and romantic, but then again I often hear that the best strategy is to keep her at a distance for a while. Would someone please be kind enough to advise me? I know this problem is marginal to the ones those have on here who have just spliut up, but I still have a girlfriend to whom I speak every day and who is still willing to spend her entire summer holiday with me, and thereforeeee there is a good chance that i can save this. Graterful for any advice! Many thanks for reading till here, it was a long post but I felt it would be good to include as much detail is possible. John