1a1a

I immensely appreciate the amount of reality check I just came back to. Arrived unannounced in order to avoid the anxiety of waiting for a ‘yes you can reply’ I guess I could also have called. But yeah, a bit of bad faith that it would be hard to get through to him. One thing is for certain, I won’t jump into motherhood before I’m comfortable with that. I want it. Not in this context. A friend shared his and his partners current plans (a they’ve been together many years, they met younger, less time pressure). buy a house together first. Then marriage and baby but not fussed which order. If my guy is seriously serious about this with an Australian woman, he should at least have a permanent residency acquired or be in the process of applying for it. Best faith he’s so happy go lucky he just thinks it will all work out. Worst faith like some of you have said it’s an dramatic thing to drive me away but he is the one reaching back out now. And I’ll leave it at that. That feeling that I had Wednesday that I’d chased off someone really reasonable, evaporated on Monday. And although we are still in touch and maybe in a situationship (no physical intimacy though), it feels lower stakes. If he set me on fire last Wednesday when he said we want different things and I’ve been running around in flaming agony since then, this entire thread has been like cold running water and I am really, really grateful. Thank you

I’ll try this time next time I’m in the grips of grief. Yesterday was really a train wreck, just inconsolable. I started looking for video talks on breaking up and found this. I feel personally attacked by this relateable content. But also, yes yes yes this all this, the pain is excruciating, I have to text him, I have to write him a letter, I have to try and fix this. He’s the one, I love him. *cling* considering all of those feelings in the context of a traumatic response has been *tentatively* very very helpful. Also, being reminded that when someone says they want to end it this triggers a traumatic response for me. In plain black and white. So that fear I feel in the pit of my stomach I have to fight it. Call it over and go and be super kind to yourself! I went to pick up my things today and he invited me in for lunch. By the end of which I knew he had been triggered too last time we spoke. (A conversation so awful even I thought it was over!) Two triggered people are not going to have a great conversation and that it’s not that he wants to start a family in 12 months. 12 months is the outer limit of how long he’s comfortable waiting. Like 2 years is the outer limit of how much I feel comfortable speeding up my time line. Now he’s emotionally and financially ready and he’s worried about missing this window of opportunity. (These unable to align timelines are the thing that broke us). We parted with a long hug and a short kiss and it was horribly bitter sweet.

I went to pick my cds up today, unannounced. He invited me in for lunch. How have you been feeling. Really really sad. You? I too have not been feeling great. I took a day off work yesterday. I went to work out and instead sat in the car park for one and a half hours eating three serves of Mexican food. I told him that conversation was the thing that made me think we were done because we couldn’t communicate with each other and that’s key. He apologised for calling me dumb. He said he’d been triggered when I said I didn’t trust him. And I’ve been back down the rabbit hole of attachment trauma (The description of anxiously attached individual fits me depressingly well). Found a really good video that said when one person leaves you, you experience the original trauma that left you anxious and every trauma since. The pain is unbearable and you want to reconnect and make it right, write that letter, send that text, fix this! I could feel him leaving in that phone call and I was triggered too. Two triggered people aren’t going to have great conversations. I found out that it’s not that he wants to have a kid in 12 months. He wants to have one now, 12 months is the outer limit of how long he could wait. Just like two years feels like the outer limit of how soon I can take that plunge. It no longer feels like an arbitrary road block, I understand him better now. I still wish and hope that he’ll rethink 12 months. Like I rethought some time vaguely in the future. But I don’t expect him to and won’t ask him too, just wishful. If he’s really smart he will already be walking away. (I don’t think he’s quite that smart though, he knows we’re at this impasse better than I yet he still invited me in for a meal, we’re just prolonging the pain if he can’t shift. ) We parted with a long hug and a short kiss on the lips and ohhhhhh it was bitter sweet. But I can see the difference between being aware I have attachment trauma and when the world falls out from under my feet when someone says they need a break, that feeling is part of a trauma response, and when I wasn’t aware. I left his place feeling quite sad. But not afraid or inconsolable. Because if I love him I have to love him enough to make choices that will bring him the things he wants in life.

It’s going to feel so good when you’re in your own space, I’m certain of it

I had a relationship which hasn’t quite been long, but it also has been. (a much more detailed blow by blow of the last week can be found here The majority of it has been long distance so, lots of time and emotion put in and an impression formed that this guy was solid and someone I could build a life with. But no opportunity to meet face to face and this one huge question, when will we start a family. was not asked by him until recently, after he closed the gap and my answer to it is a deal breaker for him. And over the following days when I searched my soul and was certain I want this thing with him, sooner than I would have imagined. Much sooner. But that’s still not soon enough. Only fitting into his timeline is an acceptable way for us to proceed.and then when it actually comes time to have the hard conversations I say where I’m at and every single thing I said was interpreted badly by him, every single thing! I couldn’t say one thing right. And I try and hear what he’s saying, repeating it back, seeking clarification. But then in how I respond to the things he says he feels like I haven’t heard him at all. And that’s the moment for me where I think ‘oh ***, this won’t work’ (his moment was last week when I said I didn’t feel comfortable with starting to plan a family in 12 months. We haven’t even tried living together yet. We’ve been in the same city all of 2 months. And as it turns out i always wanted to go slower than he did and now that it’s a conversation we’ve had I look inside myself and I have plenty of capacity to speed up. But he looks inside and his timeline for having kids is more important to him than anything. And then him trying to pull away triggers all this anxiety in me because I have an anxious attachment style and separating feels catastrophic). ) I’ve talked all of my beautiful friends ears off, I’ve received heart warming support here. If this coming apart is a savage burn people have been on hand with running cold water in a greater abundance than I’ve never experience before. (I’m losing him and being reminded how much else I do have.) But now the conversations are wrapping up and the answer is obvious ‘this won’t work’ and I feel bad. So bad. Stuck bad. Can’t bring myself to do the tasks that need to be done today and in my life bad. I’m trying to focus on my breathing and what I can feel and hear but it feels like a Band-Aid for a profusely bleeding amputated limb. I try and tell myself ‘stiff upper lip. This whole experience has shown you how you want to go forward. So do the work, go forward!’ But I can’t focus. How do I self soothe myself through this?

Grief is back. But without the devastation of feeling like I lost someone who would seriously work with me to keep the relationship strong. Last night was not working with. Last night was a screaming alert saying do not have a kid with this person he won’t be able to face hard times with you!!!! Still sad. And feel bad that he changed up his whole life to enable us to happen. (Except for that one part of his plan that is unchangeable and yet inexplicably was never brought up as a discussion before he arrived here even though you’d think that’s an important thing to get on the same page about before buying the plane ticket or quitting the job you love…) *deflates*

I'm reeling, I've never had a relationship conversation that went as badly as that one. Like every thing I said was run through a "opposite meaning" translator. And he accuses me of bad faith! The good news is he never kept the key, it looked identical to another one in his wallet and came back to me to get marked up with texta. But he has three CDs of mine that are pretty precious. I'll ask for them back tomorrow. This positivity hoop (of being more positive about the outcome and acting as though that positive outcome is a foregone conclusion) that he wants me to jump through (where some thing happens that makes me feel like we're coming apart but he thinks I should act as though that is not the case. Like you said you were done dude. I'm not going to come to you asking to plan the house and family from That starting place! I already need to cross more ground than you to feel trust and you just sent me waaaaaaaay back over there past the starting line when you asked for space) What the *** just happened?! Edit to add: Now I think I know him reasonably well, as well as you can get to know someone long distance. And I can't imagine what you describe Wiseman as being the reality. And yet how he's currently acting. The shoe fits!

Never mind. Hour and a half long phone call today where he went through my letter point by point saying how this is just all about me. Saying that he didn’t understand why I gave him the key. In his world when you give a key it’s an invitation to move in. There’s not even space in my house for his wallet when he comes over. Why would he want my key? He’s not going to be there if I’m not. He says we’re standing still, I haven’t moved at all. It’s all talk, I’m like a rollercoaster I want this I want that I want this. He said he would have loved a letter that said ‘when can I move in with you, when can we start a family’ He said I always jump to the negative outcome. He’s never heard of attachment theory, 1a1a has psychological scars from childhood that affect how she perceives her relationships with people? He did not know this until today. I told him about how I used to be in an open relationship with a fine lad who didn’t light my fire and then I met someone I did and then there was bad overlap and the open relationship ended and so did the one with the guy I was really into and then I chose monogamy and him rather than losing him and never regretted the situation (now I write that here why did I tell that in such detail?!) He said he wished I hadn’t told him, he doesn’t like hearing about old relationships. He started to say with this conversation we were going backwards. I said ‘you did say it was over in the intervening days. That destabilises the relationship further.’ He didn’t acknowledge that at all. Just I’m pessimistic for always thinking it’s over (you know. All those times it wasn’t, and then that one really recent time when it Was!) And it’s all moot because we got back to kids and he is dead set on 12 months. He only wants to be my partner if we can start for a kid in 12 months. I told him that just isn’t enough time for me to work out how we navigate troubles together. It’s a big decision having a kid, huge. I’m trying to come to you but 12 months is too soon that’s a hard limit for me. ’we want different things’ ‘I love you but we want different things. I can’t come to you on this one’. And I can’t come to him. And I can’t imagine coming back from this conversation. Never have I felt so much like every single thing I said was the wrong thing to say. Nothing landed. Not one damn thing!

End it, don’t try and come back from this, you’ve been conned by a beautiful liar!

This reminds me of when I was dating the one that I thought was meant to be The one (the one shouldn’t make you feel so lonely though). Towards the end of our relationship, one day we had an awkward discussion with no resolution and suddenly he just left, didn’t say goodbye. I realised he wasn’t in the house, looked outside, could see him walking down the street. I ran after him, around the block to the main road. I reached it just in time to see him alighting onto a bus before it whisked him away (like something in a movie). He didn’t talk to me for another 10 days! After which we tried to come back together but a lot of damage had been done and that radio silence made it worse. I will never, ever date someone who uses the silent treatment to express their upset again. I’m not saying they can’t be upset with me, but that is a wretched, wretched way to communicate it. Never again.

Attraction has spiked. And it was thinking about that future point where we’ve been living together awhile and we’re solid and comfortable and we decide to lose the protection that did it. Really weird experience. Never discussed, more intuited. I know I won’t, if he remains smitten with me he won’t either. We were talking about making a list of what you want in a life partner on the drive home. I said I’d already done one, would he like to see? Yes. Has he ever done one, no. You should do one ‘if I make a list now it will just be you’ That stage of dating where you’re exclusive, intimate and seeing each other regularly and are starting to trust in the longevity of the other person (for me anyway, his last two months might have felt different).

I spent two hours writing a letter last night, got to a concluding paragraph, thought it sounded better as an intro, moved it and found myself writing the whole letter again (I think) getting rid of the passivity. (Your demonstrative example is very excellent). Today he arrived to pick me up with a small serve of curry for me to eat later. The other side of a conversation and him reading the letter he says I have understood where he’s coming from, perfect letter, wouldn’t change a thing. He did hold out hope. He wondered what 1a1a would think in this time apart. His hope has increased from where it was before. And he says people don’t break up in a day (he’s not wrong). We aren’t back how we were though. The problems are still there until I address them. But he offered to come and help me declutter. And he still wants to go on road trips with me and spend time with me. So, we will, and I’ll put what I say I want to do into practice, and we will revisit this conversation again. He also, doesn’t think I could go from no plan to ‘ok let’s do it in 2 years’ in 2 days. (Things like this make me feel he is a keeper.)

I don’t know what it’s worth but I’ll mention this too, this whole thing has made me realise I’m stuck and I’m the one keeping me stuck. I use tv shows online as a form of self medication and drown out my thoughts with podcasts and feel like I have no free time but that’s not true there’s hours and hours and hours of poorly spent time! The feeling to watch is gone, the podcasts are on pause, I’ve been sitting in silence. And making a list of everything I want in life and tackling the hoard with more success than previously (my super bored housemate has been helping when he’s home too). How does that relate to us or kids? I can’t hide behind the hoard if I let it go. The boy might not be for me despite my best efforts. Like you say he shouldn’t have to wait around while I shape up. But if he wants actions not just words, here are some that can be seen manifesting over a short period of time.

To put it more bluntly I didn’t do all the romantic things because I wasn’t compelled to. And I kept seeing him because i wanted to be certain that feeling wasn’t going to come back (and i really hoped it would!) before calling it a fail. Writing that out in black and white I think I should have been up front about it really early on. Maybe he could have continued at my pace, maybe he could have cut and run, at least he would have been able to make an informed choice. Being direct in my communication is something I struggle with. I’m gonna keep thinking over this tonight try and condense it down to the bare bones, get rid of the passivity.

I’m not sure, and not sure how to determine that? I do feel like when he ended it I saw a future I thought I was going to have die and that is part of the grief. (Wasting the chance to form that serious intimate connection with someone who’s heart spoke to me is another part). Maladaptive attachment style and ego could easily also be in the mix. There is one difference from the last time a serious relationship ended. The question of being alone again and fear of being alone forever, they’re not on my mind. I don’t think I’ve ever had such a loud chorus of friends saying ‘we love you, you’re going to get through this’ (and there was a time where there were no friends and it was a big thing missing in my life). I’ve seen him like 10 times in meat space and hadn’t really done much to fit him into my life, not much to miss. And there’s a kicker, why didn’t I make room? Cos he’s a bad fit or because I hadn’t straightened my brain and heart out as much as I thought I had? That failure to make space for him, I’ll share that, and how my mind has visited our potential future as parents long before he returned and if his take away is that I’ll never want them, it’s worth reassessing. And how when he pushed me for a plan now he got fear but if we could be a couple that turns towards each other and works through things then it’s worth examining why fear? I have to declutter before I could bring a kid into my house. What’s stopping me? Can I finally move past this. Do I want to keep Any of these things more than I want a life partner? Motherhood? Space to invite friends around? Freedom to relocate?! No, not even a little bit! I have no idea how to take care of a kid - take parenting classes, I dread the sleep debt, will our differing waking hours actually help take the edge off of that? Is he going to be able to make time and show up when work gets busy? The kind of busy that was the catalyst for asking himself if it’s worth going into the busy period continuing his relationship with me when it was not unfolding the way he had hoped? Can I still work once I have a kid?! (I’m a freelance sound tech, there’s a lot of flexibility in that. And there’s a couple who perform at one of my venues who are totally smitten with each other and have a newborn. A baby together and they have found a way to care for it and still do the work they love. Relationship goals!) And that I actually haven’t seriously dated anyone since my early 20s which means I haven’t had any more practice doing serious relationships since then. Maybe I do need to identify what I want and make plans and reassess my timelines! Part of what attracts me to him is that he knows what he wants and is committed to making it happen. I want that in a partner but I’m not offering it myself! I have a bit to say, it’s been a wake up call. And he could still be the wrong one for me. I can only lay it out for him to consider (and honestly, I’d hope to hear some introspection from him too because I think there are things he could have done differently over the last two months too, so that he never got to the point where he felt so lonely he cried.)

If you haven’t watched the tv show by the same name I thoroughly recommend it. If the main character resonates with you I think you’ll find solace. Also you’ll be able to see both how increasingly out of line she acts and the consequences that come with it and how big her heart is.

Blueskirt, this is reassuring to read wiseman, because I am having a little trouble distinguishing between the time spent building emotional intimacy whilst stuck long distance and the very short amount of time spent face to face (which I think is all that counts but the attachment grown over that time apart is not nothing). Which if that counted then until a few days ago I was in a pretty stable relationship. Which seems to have ended because of the different ideas about when to have kids. Kwothe, I am certain I wouldn’t date someone who doesn’t want kids. I think I want them. It’s the when that is the kicker. The risk aversion. The not ever doing anything I’m not super ready for. Like I can’t say this side of spending time actually having a relationship together that I’ll feel ready. But maybe I’ll never feel ready. But if I actually want to be a mum I don’t have so much time to wait and see these days.

Jibralta this distinction is on point. I wonder if my own parents path affected how I approach this a bit. I wasn’t planned and I wasn’t an accident. Just allowed to happen. Although I don’t think anyone would open that door without 100% wanting what could come of it so Batya insight still applies. I ended up asking him if he was open to coffee on Sunday. I’ll say my last piece (ultimately along the lines of love isn’t enough but love and doing what you can to still fit together and I know I want kids and can explore why I am ambivalent about them now. I believe there’s some flex in my timeline. And I realise I’ve been wrapped in red flags since you got back, being brutally honest because I wasn’t sure. I am more sure now). Then I lay it to rest, I’ll feel like I honoured the feeling on top of the hill and time we stayed connected while we were apart and we learned enough about each other to know we aren’t going to fit (because I can get closer on kids but I will not transform into a person who’s where he is over night). Maybe a bit of me hopes with me being more decisively committed he’ll have more tolerance to the not guarantee of kids. I will assume not. Thing is, he accepted the invitation, and first of all my panic that my actions taken to try and make it work won’t land, because he’s wise, or his feelings have faded, or the desire to start a family really soon with someone who is already there is even stronger than his affection for me dissipated. And then I was less certain about being a mum in two years time. (But still I think now, If kids are ever going to be a thing I need to actually think about it. Just waiting it’ll probably pass me by). I’m frankly startled at how differently I felt after coffee was arranged. Makes me realise I can’t make trustworthy decisions right now.

I always though ‘I’ll have a kid at some point’ and then I never thought any more about it. I was young enough it didn’t matter, and then there was a very long winter. And then there was a man I really thought I could build a life with but we got stuck long distance during covid, maintained a strong emotional connection, had no way of knowing about the chemistry. I thought when we could reunite the chemistry would come back and it was slow for me but it did, I think there was more fear holding me back than lack of interest. But then we came to crunch time because of my slow pace compared to his and because he already ready to have kids and when he pushed me on it this early in I cried. But it’s not that I don’t want them, I just thought you start building your life with a person and that feeling comes. And he feels like we’ve already been building that life for 2 years and I feel like we’ve just begun. So, without him, I start to wonder if I wait for the that feeling of wanting a kid to come it might never and I’ll miss out on something I do actually want to experience. And if I actually do want a kid, and I do want him, and that’s the only reason he ended it (and not one more reason on top of a whole bunch of reasons) shouldn’t I work this out and give us a chance to not be ships in the night? So, parenthood hesitant folk, what have your experiences been. Did you change your maybe to a yes and love it? Hate it? How do you work out if the yes is for you or the other person? If everyone waited for the perfect time to have kids I don’t think anyone would have any so why am I? Edit to add: I think I cried because I don’t feel ready. But I can identify the reasons Why I don’t feel ready. I can’t take care of myself yet. But it’s not that I can’t, it’s a choice. So I’m making changes, being more adult. As the ex pointed out I just drift through life taking it as it comes. And I was happy with that but now I see it’s going to cost me things. Worried about finances? Then I will sit down and work out what kind of cash I’d need to embark on parenthood. Surrounded by my hoard of objects, the physical manifestation of a wall I’ve built around myself? It’s time. It’s time to get rid of it all, do I want to hold onto these things more than I want to build a life with someone? Absolutely not! Random assortment of dreams and aspirations never acted on and left over from my 20s? I can reevaluate these, they might not be as important to 35 year old me.

The advice is unanimous, to heal, let go, move on. I see the wisdom of it, how everyone giving it has my best interests at heart, sooner i let go, sooner I can make space in my life for other things. But I feel like we invested too much to just walk away. So I’m making changes that should have happened a long time ago around living better. And I’m grappling with the kids question as best I am. And I’m sitting with it because how I feel in the agony of being left can’t be a reliable indication of what I want. And I’m wondering how long I have to wait that out before what I’m saying I want can be relied on. And I haven’t stopped contacting him quite yet. Today I sent him quiz results from a ‘do I want a baby quiz’ (‘keen but concerned’ Well no kidding!) If he thinks I’m like his sisters husband, I’ll say ‘let’s see, and in a few years, still let’s see’. I’m not, if I go in I’m committing to it. I want him to know that. And the bunch of flowers he got me for Valentine’s Day had secret extra flowers that hadn’t bloomed yet. They’ve opened up now and look really nice. I sent him a photo of that too and told him they’re beautiful. Got a reply back that he too gets to look at blooms every day, and a photo do the flowers I gave him displayed in a vase on the kitchen table. Cue analysis mode. But then shut it down. Because if I lay out what I still want after thinking about it and it’s not what he wants that is the truth of it and ok, I’ll put it down and let it go. I’ve been telling myself so long you can love someone with all your heart and they can love you right back and it can still not be enough. It’s the only way to deal with splitting when things can’t be worked out. But did I say it so much that I closed the door on working through any hard parts at all? Is there a balance in between those two and I’ve gone too far in the direction of pragmatic? (But then why why why can’t I apply that pragmatism when they leave me?)

Why didn’t I bring that memory about our first time together back up in my mind before he returned. I’m right back there now in my head, unambiguous about how I feel about him. I feel like I killed the seedling of our partnership

When you say in my mind it wasn’t long term, do you mean I hadn’t really committed? Or more I did commit but then failed to follow that up with planning? I really thought that would come naturally when we were back face to face. And I guess a person who was more compatible with my pace, maybe it would have. Then maybe I wouldn’t. Or maybe they could have encouraged me into planning without it sounding like an ultimatum 😞 As evidenced by getting blindsided about this I haven’t thought much about kids, or no kids, but I have thought that once I have one I’ll love the heck out of it. (Although I am afraid of getting post partum depression and sleep deprivation). I thought I wanted to travel but I obviously never wanted it enough to actually do it. I probably would have reached a critical mass over the last couple of years and done thing but covid happened. I know how that sounds, with the uncertainty. But I didn’t think it was about him, more to do with just how long I’ve been single. I remember when I first kissed him, we had to walk an hour back down a hill to get to the car and I wanted to hold his hand and never let go. Did I not feel that about him? Why was it so slow to come back when we were finally reunited? And that night we spent together was some of the worst sex I’ve ever had (he completely turned this around after I told him what I enjoy), but the emotional connection I felt then was so precious to me I pursued ldr. As I test and re test and test again, how the prospect of starting a family in the next couple of years feels to me, the thought occurs to me that if he sees me tackle this question and it doesn’t restore his faith in us. Then that is it and even though he thinks he put a lot of work in. He really didn’t have any patience with me at all on the big life stuff. Specifics for time invested while overseas would be daily phone calls on average an hour long. And every time he really missed me a bunch of flowers would arrive on my door step, or a book of smoothie recipes when I was getting into post work out smoothies, or 3 hard to get albums by my favourite band. A new phone when he forgot to register his car and I got a huge fine for driving it, an Apple Watch for divali so I could go hiking and have a way to call for help when my Apple Watch inevitably went flat. Between this and the moving and the seeing in person how I live, very much not how he lives and still not being scared off, did I get it wrong in my impression of the depth and strength and of his love for me? The whole reason I was so cautious is because I was afraid he was in love with an imagined version of me and waiting for him to get enough accurate data to realise he’s not interested.

I keep waking up really early and being unable to get back to sleep (instead lie in bed trying to, brain churning non stop with conversations I want to have with him argh!)

How do I work out what feelings come from commitment conflict? For the larger part of our face to face time I felt hesitancy, hesitant to touch, hesitant to kiss. I would have thought I wanted to jump in and hold him forever based on how I felt before and I thought that feeling would come back with contact time. Now it has, is it real? Or just because my brain is broken on this? (I’ve decided to seek out the psych again but I’ll still have a long time where I have to grapple with this on my own). How long do I need to sit with the idea of pursuing children, like actively taking steps to bring them into my life, to know it’s my idea and not just a reaction to losing this connection I really believed in? Jibralta, your take is the hottest, it required some thought. It’s hard to convey the whole of a person when you’re only posting about the troubles but he really did pour a lot into building and maintaining a connection with me when he was in India. The time and emotional investment was big. I don’t know, maybe partnering with me did fit with his plan and now it looks like he can’t he’s ended it. Or he’s reading online if you’re only just starting out dating and there’s an incompatibility over babies, end it. Where as if we had been dating for a while sit down with the reluctant partner and find out why. So which is it? 2 year relationship or just starting out because the emotional reaction I’m having to this wouldn’t be happening for a 7 week dalliance. And I wouldn’t feel like I needed to try and give it every chance of working. And maybe he did too and that’s why he pushed through my caution but misaligned baby timeline is too big a thing to push through and he’s a good egg who doesn’t want us to get more involved just for this to drive us apart later. These what ifs are the bane of my life. And I keep thinking of things I want to do for him, small gifts I want to give. Where was this feeling when we were good? Really the only good thing I could give is to reiterate, one last time, that I don’t want to give up and I would like the future I’d like, however that looks when I really think about it. He thinks I don’t want kids in the future and doesn’t even know that having a kid was part of my day dreams when he was in India (obviously not a very big part and something I thought would happen in due course but I do want it to happen).

Testing the theory, why let us get this far in before having an honest, clear conversation about kids and how soon he wants to have them?