How to do NC when we have a child together?

[truevox]

Ok, this is gonna be long. I realize I'm new here, (first post, I guess this warrents a woot, right? but I was just so glad to have stumbled upon this place (thanks to a google search of Brian Caniglia, the link removed guy (any final say on if it's a good buy, btw?)). Finally, people who are dealing with this crap. At least I'm not alone.

 

Let's see, where to begin? Met a girl two years ago. We hit it off fairly well. We were living together withing a month or two (yes, I know a big mistake, but we were both love starved). She was 17 (18 in a month or so, though) and I was just 21. Lots of good times, a couple of bad times (mostly brought on by her family), then we got pregnant (about 6 months into the relationship, we lost our virginity to each other on her 18th birthday, if that matters). Forward a bit more, we have our own apartment with each other (and our beautiful child). A bit more, we buy a small house together. I feel like things are really running smooth. Sure, we sometimes have problems, mostly stemming from her not knowing if she's ready to settle down yet. I.. never went through that phase, so maybe I thought she'd grow out of it. I donno. Then, 8 months ago, I started working HUGE hours at my job (80+). A few days before our 2 year anniversary, she tells me she kissed a guy at work. Standard argument ensues, she promises to stop. Then, it happens again, only this time he also flashes her (got this stuff hurts to repeat)... Then, what do I get for my 2 year anniversary gift? She blew the guy at work. But then she said it stopped, and we went on like that for another month or two, and she still was saying it had stopped. Then, one day, out of the blue (just after my freakin' parents house goes up in flames), she tells me we need to take a break. For the last few months she'd been sleeping at her grandmothers house, because I was coming home so late from work. Long story short, from the break, it's gone to a break up. But she still sends mixed signals. Just after she broke up with me, she started seeing this other guy (who lied to her, and treated her like crap, without getting into specifics, but let's just say when they started going out he wasn't the 41 year old ex-con he turned out to be). But while with him, who'd she call when she needed support? Me. We made love on Christmas, but a lot of times she won't even return my calls. I have to see her every few days (or give up seeing my son, not an option I wish to entertain). Just last week, she started calling me up again, a few times, after a period of relatively no contact, and started talking again, about how she wishes she'd never met him. We've gotten into a couple of fights sense we broke up, and after each we didn't have much contact (VERY minimal) and one time was just before Christmas where she decided she wanted to be friends. The other was 3 weeks ago, and she just now started talking again. Heck, just a couple of days ago, I went over to drop off our son, and she wanted me to help set up her new printer. So I went upstairs to attempt to set it up, and she came up. She changed her clothes in front of me, and asked me what I thought of how she looked (she's lost a lot of weight over the last 6 months, I think that's part of why guys have been taking more interest in her). I went over, wrapped my arm around her (she likes that). Before I left, I went to give her a hug, and she hugged me back even harder. I said "I love you", and she said it back. And she KNOWS I don't ever want her to say it without meaning it. It was something we established VERY early in the relationship.

 

She says she wants her space, but she calls when she has problems. She says she wants to be friends, but she won't hang out. I... I just don't know what to do. I'm going crazy. I'm trying to work out, and I'm attempting to get a new job (I left the old one too late to make a difference, but what I went to wasn't as steady as I had thought it might have been). I...... I"m trying hard not to be suicidal. I don't' think I'm a risk (if for no other reason then I don't' have a gun in the house, and I'm too much a wuss to consider a knife). But it's been 2 almost 3 months of pain. Of screaming into the night "WHY!!!". Or sometimes screaming worse......

 

I only grew so attached to her when we got engaged. If.... I don't know.

 

Is there any hope? Am I crazy to see something here? Any more details required may be provided. Just ask.

 

And.... thank you. For your time, and any support that is offered. I just want my family back. I'd overlook everything she's done, if they'd just come back home..........

 

*EDIT*:

 

Oh, I think this is clear from above, but in case it isn't: I love them more then life itself. But if you guys and girls think it's hopeless, can you at least show me a way to turn off the pain? I've tried seeing other people, but she seems to have a MUCH easier time of it then me. I can't get a single date (not that I've ever been a datable guy, I'm a good catch, but I have a, uh, Radio Face. Heck, we met on a blind date). I want them back, but failing that, I need the hurt to stop. It's slowly killing me. I don't know how many more nights I can lay in bed screaming at god to either reunite us, or to put me out of my misery. I... can't die, I have to help take care of our son. Like I said, I'm not a risk, too much of a wuss. But not being able to do it, doesn't stop me from wishing I could.

 

Anyway, this edit was just to make it clear that I want get back with her, if possible. Should be clear, but it's really important, so I wanted to make sure.

 

*/EDIT*

[samross]

I think sometimes NC doesn't have to mean NC in the sense that you never see them (refer to my situation). I think if you want to take that approach that your primary reason for contact is for your child. If you show her you're not waiting around on her to become committed to the relationship then that might make a difference. I see my ex on a regular basis and most of the postings here have suggested just acting like you've moved on (don't be mean). It is hard at first to follow that but once you do you'll see that it really does help you. It may work as far as getting her back but mostly it will help YOU.

[Mythical_Suicide]

IF you dont want contact between the two of you except primarily for the sake of the child then make that clear to her and whenyou go to pick up your son or drop him off make it a hi and bye type of thing. If it's too complicated for the two of you do that as mature adults then can you have maybe your parents or someone to pick up and drop your son off? (this is what my bf used to do with his exwife right after they separated)

[truevox]

Sadly, having my folks pick him up isn't an option, it feels too childish (no offense to your bf, he and I may be in wildly different positions regarding respective family's).

 

So how do I act as if I've moved on? Like I said, I've been TRYING to move on, but I'm not that dateable. How do I do a quick hi bye when she asks me to do things, or when she calls me up? Do I just brush her off?

 

I'm sorry, she was my first real SO (I had one girl friend all through highschool, but she was a gf in name only, very little passion from her), I've never really delt with this stuff.

 

Thank you both for your replys, btw. I REALLY am thankful for people like you.

[Mythical_Suicide]

In no way is having your parents pick your child up childish so I disagree with that. You ask how do you do a quick hi and bye if she asks you to do stuff? YOu tell her no you cant you're strictly there to get your son and leave. You are under no obligation to doanything for her, if she calls you and it isn't regarding your son tell her you have to go. Unless you want things to continue going on like they are you need to talk to her and tell her you two are only in contact for the purpose of the child and anyother form on contact between the two of you is unnecessary. I personally think she's using you to do all the manly things she needs done the way you describe it. If my sons father and I split up I wouldnt be asking him to do this and do that when he would come see my son especially if I wanted a so called "break"

[samross]

I feel for you and your child. I would try to be the stable person in the relationship for your child because it sounds like she has a LOT of growing up to do. Focus on YOU and the CHILD. Don't think that because you share a child with her that you HAVE to make things work with HER for the child as far as making her your wife. It is very easy to be miserable in a loveless marriage which isn't good for anyone, including the child. But you do need to be there for the child as much as you can be. I liked Mythical Suicide's suggestion if that is an option. As far as acting like you've moved on - first tell yourself YOU ARE DATEABLE. Don't put yourself down. I'm guilty of that also but you don't see yourself the way others see you. WORK ON YOU. MAKE YOURSELF DATEABLE if you want to find true love. Don't make your world revolve around her. The scenarios you have described about things she's done are things that would be hard for anyone to accept no matter how long you've been together. Don't always be available for her. Don't always be the shoulder for her to cry on. It will be hard at first but if I can do it anyone can. I know that since she was your first relationship is is very hard to feel that there is life after her but there is over 100 million women here in America. THANK GOD FOR THAT.

[chai714]

Truevox,

 

First off, getting this woman back should not be part of your plan. She has disrespected you several times and you never walked away. She knew she could get away doing it without any consequences and you never left her so in a sense, the most she got was a "slap on the wrist."

 

Guy, this woman does not respect you. Once that's gone, she's history. The only relations you should have with her are in court and when you pick up your child. There's no "let's forget about this and be a family." Maybe in the movies, but not in reality. I know it sounds harsh but your woman has been much more harsh than anyone ever will be to you.

 

As far as moving on - don't view moving on as dating others. Focus on first healing from this big mess and learning about yourself. Nobody expects you to date and you shouldn't expect to jump into the dating scene either. Time will heal you from this mess but for now work on the legalities of seeing your child through the court system. There's no need to deal with your ex any longer. She has done enough damage.

[truevox]

Mythical Suicide, I meant no disrespect for your bf. Perhaps instead of childish, I really just meant... wrong. For me. If it works for him, good. I'm glad, honest. It just doesn't feel right to me.

 

As far as there being 100 million women in America, it's true. It's just that every one of 'em I've come accross has been seeing someone. Somehow the singles ration up her in New England isn't as high as it is in other areas (add living in a small town, and it's a recipe for trouble). I've tried telling myself I'm dateable. That's how I found out everyone is already seeing someone. I'm currently working out, trying to buff up a little, but I don't really know if it's to get her back (the guy she cheated on me with is pretty buff), or if it's to help me find someone else.

 

Regarding legal recourse for seeing my son, we haven't taken it to court, and I'm not pushing for it. In the area I live in, fathers tend to get screwed as far as visitation and custody. Right now we have a fairly ok schedule worked out (not as good as I would like, but better then the courts would probley give me): 3 hours a day tuesdays and thursdays, overnights on fridays and overnight every other saturday.

 

It seems the positivism has drained out of this board. I guess I have that effect of folks. I guess since I'm not gonna get any advice re: getting her back (not that I'm not gonna stupidly try; she's the mother of my child, and the first woman I've ever met who accepted a lot of things about me, that I NEVER expected to get accepted by anyone), can I at least get some advice re: deadening the pain? It's been almost three months, and it still feels like the first day.

 

Christ, my posts are long. I'm sorry.

[samross]

You are sounding just like I did a few days ago (read my postings). I know your pain, brother. We all do. I think everyong is genuinely trying to give you positive advice. I felt like no one really cared and my problem was something no one wanted to hear about. I WAS WRONG. I think for one thing right now you are still too close to the fire (yes, it has been almost three months, but it's still too soon). If you want things to work with her it will take time if it is going to work. You are both young, and at your age even though things are happening that would make you think you are growing up fast, you are still young. I don't mean this in a condesending way, but what I am getting at is you both are at an age when your whole lives are in a state of turmoil - you're just starting out of the gate in life. Now you have a child. Your life changes completely when you graduate from highschool, when you get married, and when you have children. Nothing is the same after that. Obviously it sounds like you are more mature than her. Keep that in mind. Earlier when I said she had done some things that would be hard to accept, you still have to temper that against her age. PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES. None of us are immune to it. If you really love her, and are willing to forgive her, first understand YOU can't change her. Show her what a wonderful father you can be. Show her that you're the man she really needs to be with. Show her in this relationship you are the rock. Understand that you open yourself for the possibility of heartache. To do that will require strength. Strength that you have but don't realize yet. Part of gaining maturity is understanding what you can change and what you can't. I firmly believe that love does conquer all but battles aren't won without pain. As far as deadening the pain, there are positive things you can do but time is always part of the equation. If you focus on yourself -- that is, take the attitude that I am going to make myself whole again regardless of the outcome with her, that I am going to do everything I can to make my child's life as good as it can be, then you will make the pain go away. DOn't worry about long posts. Just writing this down helps me as well...

[truevox]

I think everyone is genuinely trying to give you positive advice.

 

You're right, it's just everyone was telling me to give up on her, and I... can't bring myself to. I'm sorry if I snapped, I wasn't trying to sound rude. People just sound so hopeful on the other threads... I guess I just wanted someone to tell me everything would be ok.

 

If you want things to work with her it will take time if it is going to work. You are both young, and at your age even though things are happening that would make you think you are growing up fast, you are still young. I don't mean this in a condesending way, but what I am getting at is you both are at an age when your whole lives are in a state of turmoil - you're just starting out of the gate in life. Now you have a child. Your life changes completely when you graduate from highschool, when you get married, and when you have children. Nothing is the same after that. Obviously it sounds like you are more mature than her. Keep that in mind. Earlier when I said she had done some things that would be hard to accept, you still have to temper that against her age. PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES. None of us are immune to it. If you really love her, and are willing to forgive her, first understand YOU can't change her.

 

I know she's young. And further, she's not... mentally stable. She suffered abandonment issues in her early to mid teens (her parents got a messy divorce) and her father was never home, so when I came into her life, she felt like I saved her. There's other stuff that happened to her too, but it's just too personal to mention here without her consent. I'm prepaired to deal with her mistakes, I just want to know she's coming back. Every time I've asked her about it, she's given me answers ranging from "likely" to "it's possible" and even a "it's not a non-option". But never has she said "No" (well not true: Twice during the two BIG fights we've had since she's left, but I'm attributing that to passion). I've made it clear to her that if it is no, to please tell me so I can move on. But she never says no! Shouldn't that mean SOMETHING?

 

Thank you, all, genuinely, I do appreciate your input. I'm just.... messed up in the head, and not my usual polite self.

 

Also, Samross, could you link to your other posts? I didn't see them (I'm likely just blind, but humor me

[samross]

I think if you just click on my name samross it will take you to them. Others may have a better way - - not really sure myself. Getting back to the additional things you indicated in your last post, it sounds like she may be responding to your situation in the manner that she has grown up in. If she's had problems with male figures (and you don't have to go into that) that will take time and love if it is to work. She will need to see for herself the need for a change. If you respond to her in the manner that she's used to then that may help to know that. That may be something you could work on.

[rocio]

Her behavior may seem unrational to you. But consider that she was simply not able to commit at such a young age. Would you rather she did this now, or 20 years down the road after you were married and had grown children? Her choices may seem incredibly stupid, but in the end she followed her heart instead of lying to you. Most girls aren't ready to settle down and be moms and wives at the age of 18. I would give her some time to live her life and explore what she needs. It sounds like she loves you and I think there's a good chance that you could end up together. Just because you have a child together doesn't mean she will necessarily be ready to commit to you yet. Give her some space. Don't let her manipulate you, but be there for her. I have a feeling she'll come around.

[truevox]

Hazey, please tell me you're not just saying that to stave off something stupid on my part. I want *SO BADLY* for that to be true. I hope (pray, even) that you're right. Thank you. I understand she may not be ready to "settle down", I just wish she had figured that out before she got me 40k in debt with college debts and a house, and put on the engagement ring that we picked out. But regardless, do you really think if I give her time I might (in the future, maybe a year or so) get my family back? Nothing would make me happier. Nothing.

 

Thank you for your little spark of hope.

 

And Samross, what do you mean by this:

 

If you respond to her in the manner that she's used to then that may help to know that. That may be something you could work on.

 

I feel foolish saying this, but I don't understand what you're getting at. Thank you for staying with this, though.

[samross]

What I meant was if she used to parents fighting, or a male figure in her life that always comes accross to her in an adversarial manner then she probably has learned from that environment to respond likewise. If you knwo that something like this is the case, then maybe when you guys fight or have aproblme to work out you will know what works and what doesn't work with her.

[truevox]

Ah! Ok, so... do act like what she would expect given her past? Or don't? I'm sorry to be so dense, I'm not trying to.

[samross]

Be yourself, but if she's used to fighting and yelling then be the opposite. Be solid. Don't come accross to her like the negative people in her life (if that is what the situation is). One problme as a result of this is she may not be used to people being nice to her. Keep that in mind. If that's the case then don't over-do it.

***************************

The way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time

[truevox]

Ok. So don't do what she's used to. Check.

 

So... don't abandon her, don't screw with her head.... This sounds hard while maintaining NC....

[samross]

Read my posts about NC when you have to see them on a regular basis. If you want to have contact, and she does too, but you feel NC is best, then try to be aloof. Not mean or cruel, but independent. Let her know you're the rock in the relationship. You'd like to have her but if she doesn't then that's OK. No pressure. Just be you and be there if that's all you can do.

[rocio]

. But regardless, do you really think if I give her time I might (in the future, maybe a year or so) get my family back?

 

I think it depends alot on you. You've received some excellent advice here and I suggest you follow it. Don't be spineless or a pushover. Be strong, for her and yourself. She will respect that.

 

I find that people who make the really stupid choices when they're young often end up being the most responsible adults. It's good to learn young. I just hope she grows out of this stage of making stupid choices (because some people never do).

 

In the meantime, though, don't wait around for her. Go out there and meet new women. Stay social and active in the community.

[truevox]

I think it depends alot on you. You've received some excellent advice here and I suggest you follow it. Don't be spineless or a pushover. Be strong, for her and yourself. She will respect that.

 

I'm numb, and sorry. Does being strong involve supporting her? Or sticking with minimal contact? I REALLY want this to work...

 

As for meeting new women, I assure you, I'm trying. Just not a lot of luck.

[samross]

Being strong means supporting her in a positive way but being the person that brings stability into the picture for the child's sake. Keep in mind that your child will look to you for guidance as he/she grows up AND the child's mother needs to understand that you're someone to look for guidance and support because she's growing up, too. Don't expect all that to happen over night. It will take a lot of time.

[truevox]

So... NC is not the right choice? I should be there for her? I'm sorry, I'm just not good at this stuff.

[rocio]

I think it's great for you to spend time together. But not in a setting where she can get naked in front of you, or break down in tears in your arms. Those situations aren't going to help anyone. Do you ever go on family outings with her and the child? Offer to take them to the waterpark, to the zoo, or to other fun family events. But don't go into her house, even when you pick up you child. Don't let her play you. When she plays games (like crying - which women often do to be manipulative), be firm and tell her that you're not a toy to be played with. Be straightforward and tell her that when she's ready to take the relationship seriously, you may or may not be single. If you are single, then you will be willing to give it another shot. But she has to be ready for an adult relationship without games. If she tries to talk to you about any of the guys she's seeing, tell her that it's her own business, not yours. You don't need to hear it. Give her lots of praise - tell her what a great mother she is, how much you respect her for taking good care of the child, how fit her body looks, etc. That way you can be firm without being cold.

[samross]

I agree with Hazey 100%

[truevox]

Ok, thank you both for your clear and direct advice. Now, to just get her to let me put it into play.

 

I'll keep you all updated on how things go. Thank you.