Small Claims Court

[doyathink]

Oh yeah, it sounds to me like he has a real shot also.

 

I looked into small claims court about something else, but I didn't have to go because I became very persistent with phone calls and e-mails, and they finally sent it to me, I guess just to shut me up! I started calling and e-mailing once a day for like, 2 weeks.

 

Thats what creditors do dont they? And, they get their money faster that way too....lol

[Batya33]

Since there is no written contract, he will have to prove what the oral contract was. They could say that he promised them professional quality work and misrepresented his experience. They don't have the burden to prove - it is far easier for them.

 

The problem in my city with small claims court (having been there) is that while the fee to file a case is very low, you can go there and sit there for hours and not be seen by a judge - and have to come back again and again. Loss of work time/free time - if that is worth something to you - is lost sitting and waiting in court. That should be balanced against the amount to be recovered.

 

Also there might be restrictions on what amount can be recovered without a written contract.

[Ellie2006]

Hey HF,

It sounds like a frustrating situation for sure!

I do think you guys have a good case since she cancelled the check BEFORE they saw your work (which, IMO, implies that she perhaps intended to do this all along??) If she's doing this to someone else, maybe it will make your (and the other injured party's) case stronger if you filed your cases together?? Just my two cents worth ...

 

In the meantime, I hope your gf is not too upset after seeing her friend's horrible behavior ... Yeah, i cannot fathom why this "friend" would jeopardize a 10 year friendship w/ someone ... and after such a happy event as a wedding ...

 

Take care

[HellFrost666]

We have considered getting in touch with the other injured party. If they are up for filing together we are all about it.

[charley]

Well, I'd try to work things out with them first, but do so with a polite, but direct written letter to start establishing some evidence. I think I would send it by certified or registered mail, but make the tone very polite yet direct so that you can have a chance of working it out, yet also establishing some paper evidence.

 

Who has possession of the check? That is the best evidence you currently have. A checked signed by both parties is a legal contract in my state, but only if is clearly states what it was for.

 

I'd give you 50/50 chances in court because you don't have a contract, other than maybe a check. If the other party has the check, then you have nothing, IMO.

 

Life is full of painful lessons. This is one of them. From now on all your business dealings must be based on a signed written contract. To be legal (at least in my state) both parties must have a copy with both parties signatures on it.

 

I don't know what your time is worth, but I doubt your time is well spent going to court without a contract. I suggest you try and learn from it, then move on. Experience is a cruel teacher.

[HellFrost666]

A check is a legal contract here also. And we have the check. It was mailed to us with a statement from the bank.

[charley]

A check is a legal contract here also. And we have the check. It was mailed to us with a statement from the bank.

 

Well then, you have a chance in court, especially if the check specifies what it is for in the other person's writing. However, ask yourself what your time is worth and if it's worth your time and money to go to court. Even though you represent yourself, you still have to pay a fee to book a court date (at least in my state).

 

I understand you are angry, but try and put that aside and just be rational. Is this a good use of your time? First send them the letter like I suggested and see if things work out that way, then if they do, great. If they don't, then seriously consider the time and cost of court and if it is the best use of your time.

[L.J.]

HF,

It is indeed a very frustrating situation you are in. Here are some of my thoughts:

 

A professional photographer/videographer doesn't necessarily mean he/she takes better pictures than an amateur. It just mean he/she does it for a living. An amateur can do incredible work, but he/she doesn't do it for a living. The quality of work especially in a medium of the arts can be defined very subjectively by different people. A well exposed image of a glass of water can be defined as quality of work but to another person, the exposure doesn't matter, the glass of water just doesn't look refreshing enough.

 

Charley: Well, I'd try to work things out with them first

 

I agree with Chaley. Are you willing to negotiate?

In normal circumstances, weather there is a formal contract or not, a retainer(deposit) is in place before I would even pick up my camera. This first payment is calculated to cover your time and expenses. The balance is for the final product.

 

She's disputing the standard of work (product), but still has to honor your time and expenses. Is she willing to at least pay for your time? If she's willing to talk about her dissatisfaction, and if your gf can rectify this (e.g. correcting color balance and density on the computer), would she accept the pictures? As for the video, it's a not a big deal editing out the remark your girlfriend made if they find it offensive. It's just the soundtrack and it can be done easily. If you are willing to do this, are they willing to pay you?

 

Keep records of your negotiation. You can use this records in court to prove you willingness to settle the dispute.

[HellFrost666]

We have tried to "negotiate" with this person. When I have talked to her she has called me quite a few names that I won't repeat, and she went into my girlfriend's place of employment a few days ago and tried to start something while she was working.

 

The check she canceled was for our time. She gave it to us five minutes after we got there. (Acording to her) she hasn't even seen her photos yet. We gave her the pictures on CD, but she claims they won't come up on her computer. My girlfriend had hard copies printed for her. Those hard copies have been sitting on our bookshelf for two weeks now.

 

At this point the likelyhood of us going to court coiuld go either way. We are trying to reach some resolution out of court. It just doesn't look like it will happen right now.

[charley]

How much money are we talking about here? I'm asking for two reasons: Is this worth your time? Also, the amount of money has legal ramifications. In my state, verbal agreements (verbal contracts) are only binding for amounts below $500. For an amount greater than $500, a written contract is required. What does your state say about that? I think every state has that law, but the dollar amount may vary. Actually, I think my state has raised it to $1,000.

 

I think the cutoff for when a written contract is required is for any amount greater than what small claims court will hear. I think small claims court is designed to hear cases below the dollar amount requiring a written contract. Of course, a written contract is still and always a very good and helpful thing to have.

 

Of coure you do have that check and that is a contract, if it contains enough information on it. Does it state that it is a partial payment for the total amount of $X? If not, then how can you prove what the total amount owed is? Does the check state that it is for photo services?

 

I think you have a good chance in court of a judge making the other party pay you the amount of the check, but not any additional balance owed since you have no contract for that. The check will likely serve adequately as a contract to collect the amount of the check. Is that enough money to pursue this?

 

Also, according to my father, who is a very experienced business man, small claims court will issue a judgement saying they owe you that money, but not make them pay you. If they don't or won't pay, you'll then have to turn them over to collections, which means you might be paid someday, but only a partial amount since the collection agency will keep a substantial portion.

 

So is this still worth your time to fight over the amount of the check? If so, then go to court. If not, then drop it. I guess there's also the issue of teaching them a lesson, if that's important enough to you, but you can't spend pride. So you'll have to consider these things before deciding what to do.

 

Whatever you decide, you have my sympathy and support.

[HellFrost666]

I am not going to give the amount. I really don't think anyone on here needs to know the ammount, but it is below $500. I'll tell you that much.

 

I don't even care so much about the money so much as the principle. I know that sounds hokey, but this woman did my girlfriend very dirty after knowing her for so long, and she said things on the phone to me that I wouldn't say to my dog.

 

I will admit it, I just want revenge. The money would be nice, but I am just out to teach her a lesson.

[charley]

It's not revenge you want, it's justice because that is what the courts attempt to provide. In that case, I think the courts will adequately serve to get you a judgement for at least the amount of the check. Then if the other party does not pay you the amount of the court judgement, you will have the satisfaction of turning that judgement over to collections which will damage their credit. I assume their credit already sucketh judging by their conduct. Damaging their credit (further than it already likely is) will hurt them far more than if they just paid you.

 

However, if you win the judgement, you will have to make a reasonable effort to collect the judgement amount from them. If they don't pay it within 30 days, I strongly suggest you then send them a registered or certified letter warning them that if they don't pay it within an additional 30 days that you will turn the judgement into collections and their credit will be affected.

 

You want to send that letter if they haven't paid within 30 days after you won a judgement in court. You'll need that letter to turn them over to collections.

 

You want to be right and righteous when you turn someone into collections and your copy of the letter will prove that, along with your receipt from the registered or certified letter.

 

You want to be able to prove that you were just in turning in unpaid court judgement to collections. This prevents them suing you later for $100K+ for damaging their credit.

 

In case anyone is wondering, how come businesses can turn us in to collection without first winning a judgement in court? Because the businesses have a signed contract, our social security number, and a business license (credibility). That's why.

 

Anyhow, you first have to win a judgement in small claims courts. I think the check will be sufficient to win a judgement for the amount of the check, but probably no more since you lack a prior written contract.

 

Then if they won't pay the judgement after you've made a reasonable, good faith effort to collect it and you've sent them the letter to collect it, then turn them into collections and laugh your @ss off about it because that hurts them far more than if they'd just paid it. Their pain will continue for many years until they pay it off plus interest. In my state, it would dog them for 7 years. That is the equivalent to legally stalking someone for 7 years and the only thing they can do about it is pay it off.

 

But first you must win a judgement in court, then make a reasonable effort to collect it and be able to prove that (letter). Only after those things and if they still have not paid, then can you give them the 7 year punch in the nose to their credit. They'll think of you every time they want to buy anything on credit. If they ever buy a home, the lender will require them to pay you before they can get the loan. Possibly the lender will not give them the loan at all and they won't be able to buy a home at all. They may not be able to buy a car, but if they still can, it will cost them far more money because bad credit results in a higher interest rate. This is serious stuff.

[charley]

I don't think you can obtain enough financial consideration (payment) to make this worth your time, but if you want teach teach them a lesson and obtain some justice, that is within your power.

 

Personally, I'd just let it go because pride doesn't spend. You could spend this time making more money, being with your family or friends, out on a date, taking a nap, or getting some excercise.

 

I'm not a revenge type person. The only time I get motivated to teach someone a lesson is if they keep picking on me and it's an ongoing problem. Then I will teach them to leave me alone by any legal means at my disposal, but that's not revenge. That's self defense.

 

Revenge is not a good use of your time. However, if you want it, it's available to you legally and we'll call it justice since it's legal.

 

OK. I think I've given you some very good information no matter what course of action you decide to follow. Best of luck no matter how you proceed.

 

If you do go for the revenge, keep it legal so that way it's justice. I wish you luck and all the best.

[Dako]

It puzzles me that they'd not want pics of their wedding enough to edit a section of a sound file and move on.

[charley]

By the way, the "statute of limitations" on a debt is not really that at all, according to one of my mortgage broker friends.

 

In my state it's 7 years. In other states it might be more or less. Then the bad stuff on a person's credit drops off after that time. The time limit is how long it stays on their credit after it was first reported by the collection agency to the credit bureaus.

 

However, there is no law in my state against reporting it again. For example, if the 7 years is almost up, a collection agency can report it again to the credit bureaus and start the 7 years all over again, according to one of my mortgage broker friends. This seldom happens because collection agencies are out to collect money and make a profit, not make our lives miserable (believe it or not). So they tend to give up when the debt gets that old (7 years in my state). However, a vindictive or determined creditor could report it to the credit bureas again and legally start the time period over again.

 

So you could legally dog these people for 4 years, or 7 years, or whatever the time period is in your state, and then legally rereport them again for the same debt to the credit bureaus just prior to it expiring. Collection agencies sometimes to this when the amount of money is large enough to be worth their trouble.

 

In your case, you could possibly persuade the colllection agency you turned them into, to report it again to the credit bureaus as the X years is about to expire. If that collection agency won't do it, then take it to another so it's new to them and they might do it for you.

 

In this way, you could keep that debt, plus high compounding interest building up on their credit forever, or until they pay. Eventually, they'd pay.

 

Of course, I'm getting ahead of the current situation since I'm talking in this post of years down the road.

 

I know how to be a real SOB, but I choose not to be one. I'd rather be nice to people, as long as they aren't repeatedly bullying me. It's nicer to be nice. It feels good to be good. However, I've given you some applicable advice to stick to these people like a rash for years, if you want to, and it's all legal, at least in my state. I think it's legal in any state. The collection agency you hire to stalk them for you should know what's legal in your state.

 

Actually, I'm just having an epiphany moment here. I want to help people improve their credit, not destroy others. OK. The advice I gave you is valid. I'm going to stop here now because I'm just not into the revenge thing. Do what you think best. I'm done with this thread, though I wish you luck in whatever course of action you choose.

[annie24]

It puzzles me that they'd not want pics of their wedding enough to edit a section of a sound file and move on.

 

yeah, I find that odd also. I'd just be like, "ok, fine, don't pay me. you're not getting your photos and video then."

[annie24]

PS - something else to add on.....

 

at the end of your lives, if you are out a few hundred dollars, in the grand scheme of things, that is nothing. So you spent an afternoon, taking some photos and videos. that is just one uneventful day of your life.

 

her? she will be missing her wedding photos. I think she is the one who is getting the bad side of the deal. One day she will look back and regret it deeply. A few hundred dollars is nothing compared to having photos of what should be one of the happiest days of your life.

 

in some ways, not going to court will punish her the most. if that is what you are looking for.

 

I guess if you want justice, go to court and get your money.

 

if you want revenge, do nothing, and never give her the photos or the video ever.

[doyathink]

This is exactly what I told frost, she is out her memories...I cant fathom that...over a small amout of money, I wouldn't think it would be worth it..

 

Frost, the date on the check will show she paid the day of the wedding and the cancelation date that the bank stamped on it will also show a date that was before she even viewed the pic's.....stupid on her part!

[Siriana]

Well I think you are going to loose time and nerves by trying to get your money from them.

I would foget about it - asince it is not such a huge amount of money.

They didn't pay so they woan't get the pictures. How about leaving it at that?