What should I do?

[finewhine]

Last night, after a lonely weekend of feeling sorry for myself, my ex e-mailed me and IM'd me. We haven't had a real conversation since we broke up in late May. I have never contacted him, but he has contacted me a fair amount. I always blow him off.

 

He was very, very mean to me for a series of months. Dismissive, crabby, awful. He hurt me worse than anyone has ever hurt me, including a best friend who betrayed me. He forced me to end our 3.5 year relationship over the phone. He started dating someone two weeks after I broke up with him. In short, it was an awful, awful breakup.

 

Last night, I told him that I didn't hate him, but I didn't like him at all. I told him he treated me like garbage for a series of months, and that it was presumptuous of him to assume that I would ever want to talk to him again. He kept repeating that he wanted to be my friend, that he felt awful for treating me as he did, and that he takes full responsibility for how he acted. He was emphatic, incredibly emphatic, about how terrible he felt and how much it saddened him that I dislike him.

 

I can't begin to determine his motivations for bothering me. My questions:

 

1) I told him he was deluded for assuming that he loved/liked me, then and now. My rationale: you can't truly like/love someone and treat them like crap for a series of months. Who's right - him or me? Does he like me as he says, or is he a total nutjob?

 

2) I told him he couldn't have possibly felt bad that I left because he started dating someone two weeks later. He insisted he felt bad that I left, but that he was numb for a while after the breakup. Again, this sounds INSANE to me, but is there a possibility that he felt bad I left?

 

3) This one is more general. Can you "forgive" someone for who they are? I think that nine months of bad behavior is a pretty good indicator of who someone is. How can I "forgive" him for being terrible to me for that long?

 

4) He told me the reason he was so cold and distant was because he was trying to spare my feelings. Again, is he deluded?

 

I am sorry this post isn't structured very well, but my thoughts are all jumbled. Basically, I look at that relationship as a learning experience. I am so thankful I finally left it. My only regret is staying in it for as long as I did.

 

Right now I am concerned with forgiveness and moving on. I have moved on, in the sense that I'm dating, in the sense that I don't think about the ex too terribly much. Until last night.

 

So, board, is he a lying manipulator trying to assuage his guilt or a human being in pain trying to make amends? What is my role in all this? I feel like I'm giving him too much of my time as it is. Is he totally insane? Am I bringing myself down to his insane level by talking to him?

 

I'm pretty sure I want to tell him to go away forever, but I'm not sure. I've told him so many times before and he doesn't listen. I don't know if I want this door shut all the way. Does that make me insane?

 

It's troubling to me when I can't determine my own motivations. I don't want him back, I don't want to want him to suffer, but I do want him to suffer. What am I doing wrong? Why am I involved in this drama when it ultimately has no bearing on my future?

 

What would you do if you were me?

[Captain34]

can't respond fully at the moment as I am on my lunch break, but when first browsing I'd say that you may in fact be coming to some incorrect conclusions. I'll get back you on the train ride home, it seems like some of my experiences may be of some help.

[finewhine]

Thanks, Captain. I'm pretty darn confused.

[moonbeam111]

Everything he said made sense to him. And yes, it is possible to hold two opposite intentions at the same time. He had his inner conflicts and he was trying to resolve them in a way that made sense to him. He was being confused too. He is human.

 

All you can do is to try being compassionate. Tell him that you heard him. And tell him that you are not his therapist and that he needs to seek help somewhere else. And wish him good luck.

[Caterina]

I think you ultimately know what is right. You'd be unhappy with someone who'd treat you unfairly. Obviously you shouldn't ever go out with him again. Is he known for lying? I say that you should forgive but make him an acquaintance...keep him at a distance. "Fool me once," they say, "you're fault, Fool me twice, my fault."

[finewhine]

Moonbeam and Caterina - how do I forgive? I've forgiven people before for specific incidents, but not for treating me like their personal garbage dump for a series of months.

 

Moonbeam - hooray for the line about the therapist. It's true, he needs one. I suspect he may be a narcissist.

 

Catarina - no way would I ever dat him again! Not in a gadjillion years! And he's not really a liar, but I suspect he's so out of touch with his feelings that he can lie without knowing it or wanting to.

[moonbeam111]

Finewine, dear, you can't make yourself forgive him. Not yet. He is still toxic for you and you are still hurt by his poor choices. You need to be selfish and take care of yourself. Cut him out. Focus on healing and moving on. Before you can forgive him, you need to forgive yourself for staying with him and getting hurt.

 

Now about his problems. It's a separate issue. He is confused but it's not your job to understand his confusion and help him. Don't waste a minute thinking about his personality disorder, dysfuncitonal family, or bad childhood. You won't get paid for it, right? Not by him, that's for sure!!!

[finewhine]

OMG Moonbeam, truer words were never spoken.

 

So, do I make cutting him out official? I am composing a rather nice e-mail.

[Grokker]

Ok, I don't mean to sound judgemental at all, and neither do I know anything about the dynamics of your relationship with the guy, but you do mention that *you* left *him*. Depending on the circumstances, there might be valid answers to all your questions.

 

1) No, he isn't necessarily a total nutjob, and he may still very well have strong feelings for you. He may have been behaving hurtfully because he was very angry with you for having left him after 3.5 years.

 

2) Again, the date after two weeks might have been spiteful revenge. But it also might have been a certain panic that newly single guys feel... have I still got it in me to attract a woman, now that the long period of stability is suddenly over? It could have been a crisis of self-confidence.

 

3) Forgiveness has nothing to do with the other person, and everything to do with you... in my experience, anyway. Unless the only way for me to possibly obtain closure is not to forgive, I always prefer to forgive, myself... because I'm no avenging angel, and not very good at retribution, and hanging on to hurt always seems to affect me much more than the other person. That's just me though

 

4) Again, not necessarily. It's possible that he felt distance would help both of you get over the breakup more easily; or that he felt it would help HIM get over it more easily, and convinced himself that it would help you too. Hmm, that actually is a little delusional... but people have done worse in trying times.

 

From the tone of your post, however, it seems that you are still very angry with him, for his treatment of you after the breakup. In those circumstances I would not make anything "official" at this moment. It was unfair of him to suddenly thrust himself upon you with emails and IMs after treating you badly, and demand closure in the form of forgiveness and friendship and whatever.

 

However, maybe responding in anger by burning down every possible bridge isn't the best thing for you in the long run. In a sense it would "serve him right", because he picked the time and the place to force it on you and you still haven't got over your resentment of him. That said, you're not obliged to respond to his intrusion in anything more than a matter-of-fact way.

[finewhine]

Heya, Grokker. Thanks for taking the time to answer me point by point. Here's the thing - he was cold and distant DURING THE RELATIONSHIP. I was the one who put distance between us after the relationship 'cause I was still stinging from his horrible behavior. The only action that bothered me post-breakup was his dating someone else so soon/

 

I opened myself up to him time and time again (while we were still going out) and he dismissed me. I would try to talk to him and he would cut me off. I was getting my MA and he didn't know what I was writing my theisis on. He refused to accompany me on my graduation cruise. He wouldn't talk about us. He wouldn't open up to me. He would blow me off time and time again. At the very end, he wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. I finally called him to try to meet with him in person to break things off and he refused, leaving me to break up with him over the phone after 3.5 years.

 

What I'll never forget is when I was talking with him that final time, I asked him how he could behave this way towards me. He said, "I'm too busy and important to consider your problems."

 

That's why I broke up with him.

 

Now, are these the actions of a loving person? That's why I'm befuddled that he claimed to love me while all this was going on. That's why I think he's demented.

 

I know he loved me once, but I don't think he loved me for those last nine months. While it was his prerogative to stop loving me, it was his duty to break up with me, to treat me with dignity. He did neither, and that's why I hate him.

[finewhine]

Wow, I can't believe how vitriolic that sounds and how furiously it came out. I'm sorry, Grokker. None of that crabbiness is directed at you.

[Grokker]

No need to apologize... and yep... from what I've just learned about your relationship, every bit of your anger is justified! No wonder you're outraged that he would attempt to simper on back into your life, after treating you like that.

 

"Because I'm too busy and important..." he REALLY said that?

 

You deserve way, way better. None of the excuses I made for him stand And, in your shoes I'd probably be cutting him right out of my life (as officially as possible) this very minute.

[finewhine]

HE ACTUALLY SAID THAT. After three and a half years! Oh. My. Goodness. I still can't believe it!

 

So why do you think he's claiming to have loved me through all of his unbelievable behavior? Can he be serious? Could he have been that misguided while we were still dating?

 

He's out of my life for all intents and purposes, and I've cut him off officially several times already. He sends me e-mails about once a month. I don't respond. The few times I have, he's tried to pretend as though nothing has happened and that we're good chums.

 

Last night was the first time he's admitted any wrongdoing. Unbelievable, I know.

 

But here's the thing - he really, really admitted wrongdoing. He is infinitely sorry. Should I believe him?

 

Here's the other thing - he's obviously far more preoccupied with me than I am with him, and he's still dating that unfortunate girl. I asked him how he could claim to be upset about the fact that I left, and he said - and I'm not making this up - "Oh, we're supposed to be all alone until we're healed?"

 

That poor, poor thing.

[steadyhand]

Finewine, here's what I would do if I were you: BE SELFISH!

 

How? Yes, forgive him. But forgive him for YOU, not for him. During a rough time in my relationship I started trying to figure out what forgiveness is and how and why to do it. With my trusty research guide Google, I found a whole lot of resources that explained and helped me realize that forgiveness can and should be a selfish act. Forgiveness will help you move on. Who the hell cares about his guilt, what YOU need is to be able to move on with your life and no longer put energy or time into hating this guy any longer. Yeah, you might make him feel better by forgiving him but what really matters is that forgiving him will make him GO AWAY and free you from him. He ain't worth your time. He sounds selfish. It's your turn to be selfish. Wouldn't it be kind of nice to say "I forgive you, it's not worth my energy to hold a grudge. I'm happy and I want to continue moving on with my life."

 

In response to your specific questions:

 

1. Yes, he could love you. Is he a nutjob – most likely given what you have said. Don't know if it's a permanent condition or a result of the relationship and breakup. In any case, it doesn't matter.

2. Was he numb? I don't know. I think it's possible that things are just hitting him now.

3. Yes, forgive! For you, not him.

4. Trying to spare your feelings? That worked, right? I think this is a male thing I don't understand. My ex was silent a whole lot, too. Sometimes I think because he had no idea what to say and other times I know he wanted to avoid conflict.

 

To summarize: Be selfish and forgive. It may feel like you are giving him what he wants but if he does feel guilty about things (as he should), he may be wanting you to be mean to him (it will be more difficult to feel guilty about treating you badly if you stoop to his level). You sound way too put together and strong to go that route!

[finewhine]

Thanks, steadyhand. What an age we live in where we can google our way to something as noble as forgiveness!

 

I have stooped to that level. I was so mean to him last night. I don't like being mean to someone. It's weird and it's not me. Hence, I am just going to... forgive him?

 

Wow, something new to research!

[Caterina]

I think forgiving him is a faster way for YOU to heal and has little to do with him. I say stay away from him as much as possible. Don't hurt him the best you can, but let him know that he needs to leave you alone. You are very right to be angry and have a right to sit in your anger for a while...just don't let it consume you.

[finewhine]

Does forgiveness mean I have to like him? Does it mean I have to tell him I forgive him? Does it mean I have to accept his offer of friendship?

 

If you would have asked me four months ago if I had forgiven him, I would have said "yes." I see now that I was premature in thinking I was over all my anger and resentment. I am fine until I hear from him. Every time I see his name in my inbox, I want to smash something. Last night, I got this hopeless feeling. I felt, well, victimized. I know that's an exaggeration, since there are people who have been through far worse than I have, but I felt moderately victimized nevertheless.

 

That said, I want to forgive him and I think I can, but I think, like everyone has pointed out, I need more time.

 

Sigh. I thought I was over this.

[Grokker]

Does forgiveness mean I have to like him? Does it mean I have to tell him I forgive him? Does it mean I have to accept his offer of friendship?

 

A) No!! You don't have to like him! Forgiveness is about letting the hurt he caused you, out of your own system. Pitying him might be useful, but liking him is not necessary at all.

 

B) It's entirely up to you. If it will give you better closure to tell him you forgive him, than you could find if you did not tell him, then do.

 

C) Accept his offer of friendship... not at all necessary. Why? Simply on his own merits (leaving the relationship he had with you aside), what good was he to you even as a friend? Geez... even I would like to know what your MA thesis was about!

 

As Steadyhand says, make this about YOU and you will be fine. You owe HIM nothing. If you forgive him you're not doing it because he asked or he needs it... you're doing it only for yourself.

 

Look at it like this. He gave you a piece of hurt. You forgive him, as a means to the end of taking that piece of hurt out of yourself and putting it behind you. Aside from that, how you treat him or respond to him or feel about him doesn't depend on anything but his own merits... and they don't sound like much. It isn't required or prescribed for the "forgiveness" process at all.

 

If you would have asked me four months ago if I had forgiven him, I would have said "yes." I see now that I was premature in thinking I was over all my anger and resentment. I am fine until I hear from him. Every time I see his name in my inbox, I want to smash something. Last night, I got this hopeless feeling. I felt, well, victimized. I know that's an exaggeration, since there are people who have been through far worse than I have, but I felt moderately victimized nevertheless.

 

That said, I want to forgive him and I think I can, but I think, like everyone has pointed out, I need more time.

 

Sigh. I thought I was over this.

 

NC is the best medicine. Block him from your inbox if you can, so that anything from his email address will go straight to your spam filter. Take him off your buddy list and block him on IM, etc. You do need more time, evidently, but NC will make it easier to bear.

[Ellie2006]

Great advice Grokker!

Finewhine, G is right ... your ex's momentary (?) empathy and belated regrets are too little too late ...

 

Like everyone's already said, forgive him for you ... begruding someone takes a lot of mental and physical energy ... and considering how callously he acted towards you throughout and post- your relationship, he decidedly does NOT deserve any more of your time and consideration ...

 

Forgive him for YOU ... because you are too busy living your life and too important to give a second thought to someone who disrespected you ...

 

Best wishes to you!

[mattyk]

You could tell him that if he has realised how much he hurt you and really wants to be your friend now then he should understand and respect your desire not to see or talk to him until you are ready.

 

If he really has changed then he should be happy to have the opportunity to show you some long-overdue respect, by being willing to leave you alone.

[bestfishinthepond]

Fine whine...no forgiving yet! Get mad and get busy moving on and healing!!! You deserve it..and fine wine, I might ad. He is treating you like crap now and you are taking it!!! It sounds like whenever he is having a pity party for himself, he wants to make himself feel better by putting someone down...you. No pity for him. There are so many better people out there who will treat you with love, dignity and RESPECT...give yourself over to healing and then, Go find someone new!

Peace.

[finewhine]

Thanks, everyone, for your responses. I feel much, much better knowing I'm not a monster for not immediately jumping on the forgiveness train.

 

It's been a few days since this has happened, and I do feel much better. I took Grokker's advice and blocked him. Why should I endanger my well-being every time he wants to feel better?

 

I've let go of my pride. In other words, I've accepted the fact that he really, really hurt me and has the capacity to hurt me still. If blocking him makes him feel powerful or whatever is going on in his nutty little skull, so be it. I don't care anymore.

 

It's just... hard. I want to be this invincible person. I want to pity him. I just... can't yet.

 

The crisis has passed. I am going to try to forgive him on my own time and on my own terms. I don't even think I'll tell him when I do.