Lying has become a fabric of my personality

[mike_chppr]

 

 

If you want the background of how I've gotten here see the following link.

 

Wife loves me but is not in love with me

 

I wanted to come here and develop this topic a little more and get some insight from others. Most of the posts in this board are along the lines of I don't trust my BF or spouse. The caveat here is to be in other set of shoes.

 

What about the person who does the lying. Who has totally violated the trust of others around. As the post above says. Lying has become a fabric of my personality. I embelish storys, don't tell the whole truth, outright lie to protect loved ones. My family knows it, my spouse knows it, my coworkers know it, my friends know it.

 

But the thing is, when this has come into the fabric of your life how do you stop. I've told so many lies and people think things of me that are not true and I have to keep up with them all and who I have told what. I want so badly to come clean. I'm trying desparately with my wife as she will probably leave me because she doesn't or can't trust me. So the deal is I have to live with myself for the rest of my life. If she leaves me that is what she does. I have to deal. I have to somehow forgive myself for all the wrongs that I have dished out to others and right my ship.

 

Now stopping. Do I just come clean everytime someone refers to a lie that I have told in the past. Do I have to delve into my psyche to find the first lie I ever told and got away with. I have no idea how to approach the issue, but I do know this. I HAVE TO STOP!!!

 

The perpetual damage is too much and I'll end up in the hospital just to medicate myself to cope.

 

I think trust and lying are interrelated. I recal having a discussion with my father about trust and how I planned on living through life never trusing anyone. I think this was after an incident where I was in fear of getting the crap beat out of me at school and I asked for him to come pick me up instead of me taking the bus. He couldn't come and I had to deal. My parents were divorced at the time and we happened to be living near or in the same city at the time. My dad told me that that wasn't a good policy in life and that I have to trust others.

 

Well I don't think I've taken his advise. I've lied myself into a corner. Things in 5 years of marriage about my past that I should have come clean on before we got married I still had stored away in the back of my head. My brother and I have discussed how we both lie to protect the feelings of others. I've determined that we would concoct a lie to protect our mother.

 

Well we still hold the truth from our mother. We were lied to up to about the age of 15 and 17 brother and me respectively about our dad. Our mom had had our dad arrested in order to file for welfare. He was raped in jail and subsequently spent the rest of his life dying of HIV. To protect our mother we lie to her that it was her fault that our father died. And the crazy demented stuff that she would do to try and apologize to our dad's side of the famliy. Especially our grandmother.

 

Well we were also lied to about our dad's sexual orientation. He was involved in the Boy Scouts when he was young. On one of the excursions to earn his Eagle Scout identifier, some of the older boys had an initiation for the younger boys which included homosexual acts. He had repressed that side of him until having a wife and two kids he had to leave us to fill his needs that he so desparately craved. So he lived with a boyfriend until he was too sick to support himself where he moved into a hospice.

 

So we have a historical map of our Mom and Dad lying to us to protect us. Well my brother and I have expanded on this. He is not near as bad as I am, but it has impacted us. How do I trust, how do I tell the truth. How do I connect the neural pathways to become a normal white-lie telling adult. How do I repair the perceptions of coworkers, family, and friends about what I have really experienced in life. How do I tell the whole truth to let myself be known. I don't want to be known as the liar and it is apparent from these boards that noone wants to put up with someone that they cannot trust.

 

Points Comments, Suggestions Questions or Interjections encouraged...

[Beec]

It's tough, but I think with your wife ready to up and leave you, that is the person you need to start with, NOW.

 

Level with her, Really sit her down, have the heart to heart, talk with her tell her how you learned to do this, and tell her, I DON'T WANT TO BE THIS WAY, especially with you. If you show no regret and keep it going, she might be gone. If you change how things have been, if you show willingness to change your path, then maybe she stays.

 

As far as others, ignore the old lies to the extent you can. Just tell people, you do not want to talk about it anymore.

[Dako]

What a moving post.

 

After a while, liars aren't taken seriously but they often lie to themslves that they're convincing. It must be obvious when you get caught in a lie and use more to escape the truth.

 

I have a close relative with a similar tendency and he quite frankly looks like a complete idiot. If he only knew how we see him, he'd be stunned. After knowing him for 50 years, I still don't trust or believe him. I wonder what's in it for him.

 

Isn't compulsive lying a very demanding habit? Remembering your position in a complex web of falsehoods would wear me out.

I maintain honesty is easier overall.

[mike_chppr]

Beec,

 

That is what I'm trying to do. I think she knows the history, as I've discussed it with her. She tells me that she knows I can and will change, but life is short and she doesn't have to put up with my BS. it is exhausting to have to question everything I say and do, and no matter what, she doesn't know if she can ever feel the same way about me.

 

She knows I have done this my whole life. I did it when we met, when we dated and I think she kind of figured that it would stop. But it hasn't. You just get so intertwined into the lives of those that you love that you can't keep it up anymore. I've given full disclosure of what I know about.

 

As I think of other lies that I have told to her in the past should I own up to them or am I adding acid onto a wound. Part of me wants to leave the relationship. But do I really own up to the full extent of the damage I have done to her if I do that. lying isn't the only issue as the link above suggests, but I think it is a HUGE part of our pain together.

 

I feel like I'm totally going to have an anxiety attack. In one since I want a fresh start, in another, what do I really learn from that.

 

I moved 21 times by the time I was 18 years old. My brother and I knew we never had to connect or tell the truth as we would be leaving in 6 to 9 months anyway.

 

So in a way she feels as if I have lied to her about loving her. I love her and I say it. but since I am numb to feeling and attachment she feels like it isn't true. it is just another lie right now.

 

I can say I'm sorry, but I'm numb to that as well, how do you feel sorry.

 

My words and my visceral feelings don't line up and it makes my whole life seem like a lie. And to some extent it is.

[Beec]

Well, you are going to need to begin just telling the trtuh to her and around her, and be flat out. Change 180 degrees, when she asks a question, BANG, the simplest most direct answers are there.

 

And I think for her sake, you may need to make a confession or two publicly. If you are out, with people you know, and something comes up, stop the conversations. Tell them, look, I've been a BS artist in the past, it's my fault, I learned it young from my family, but I also should have out grown it. My wife is not at fault. I don't know why she tolerated me so far, but she did. But do not blame her.

 

In other words, stick your neck out for her. Then maybe she sticks around.

[Dako]

I agree with Beec.

Facing the music is a big part of honesty.

[mike_chppr]

Dako,

Your right, it is taxing. It does wear you out. Even in counseling where it is safe I tend to start lying in the first visit, a kind of make myself seem more screwed up than I really am. I'm smart, I have a Masters Degree in a Mathematics Related field, hold a solid job. But my inner world my emotional world is about a mature as a 6 year old.

 

I'm near 30 right now I'm nearing midlife, and my wife is right life is too short. I really feel in a sense so damaged at this point that I will somehow be destined to spend the rest of my life in this complicated intertwined web of storys and themes. Fantasy and Reality constantly clashing.

 

It is a horrible way to live. Right now it is as if one therapy session a week doesn't push me. I walk away from therapy feeling good about myself, but a few days later I crash. I crash hard, become desparate for attention and do something stupid like violate her personal space. See other post for description. Aside from the lying I'm really beating myself up over last night.

[mike_chppr]

Beec,

 

I'm aware of that. I question opening my mouth I feel trapped like am I going to lie again or not tell the whole truth. And she words her questions in such an entraping way, even in innocuous questions like why did you choose to go out into the living room instead of being with me. "The answer to type in my journal is a half truth." I'm really posting this stuff online. and my brother wasn't up yet so I was social with him, but then again I wasn't as I was working on the board.

 

In my response she is looking for the lie I feel like I need to zip it. withdraw right now. I discussed it with my brother and came clean with him. He has known all along and it has pissed him off to no end. He is kind of like when you can talk the truth then come talk to me otherwise I love you as my brother. I came clean. I told him what was going on with my wife and how it has impacted us. I told him I was sorry for all the crap I had done to him in the past. My wife wasn't there, but I felt really exposed. I've already decided that if and or when we tell friends we are splitting I'll totally confess and be open. I don't blame her and neither should they. Her family shouldn't blame her and neither should mine. What she is doing is completely rational and reasonable. I've made my bed and I can sleep in it too.

[Dako]

It's interesting you mention getting attention.

 

My relative says outrageous things to get attention, and much of what he does is an attempt to get noticed. He brags about himself although he lacks self-esteem. He married and moved away for 20 years, and when he returned, his wife told us the most amazing stories about us all.

 

After seeing a life degraded by lying, I sure hope you can beat this.

[mike_chppr]

I'm boarding a plane, I'll be back in a few hours.

[MollyElise]

Mike - When I was young I lied alot and then one day I realized, ya know all this lying and keeping up with it is harder than it would be just to tell the truth! I know that when I lie, at the base of my motivation is fear and by dealing with that fear (which is hard) I can see the benefits and the negative consequences of being honest. I can't ever predict the consequences of a lie, which in and of itself creates a fear driven reason to NOT lie.

 

I think you need to start being 100% honest with your wife, as far as historical lies, coming clean, start telling her some of them as part of this process. Be 100% open and communicative with her, don't feel pressured to tell her everything, right now, think about the lies, why you told them, internalize the thoughts first, then talk with her about them, I think this will also help you find out what it is you have feared so deeply to feel like you have to lie all the time.

 

Have you seen link removed ? you might want to check it out, lots of good reading there.

[mike_chppr]

Molly,

 

I've started the 100% disclosure. That is a great idea to internalize them. I've told her 6 major theme lies that I've told historically. She is having a rough time dealing with it. She was going to stay the night, but now she is going to go to work tonight and not come home.

 

So she is dealing with that and me violating her personal space.

 

It is very painful to come clean. I call them lie themes, because it takes so many more lies to cover others up. You not only have to deal with things you have said, but also things that you are hiding. Like I had to tell her that I have two pornography magazines in my army stuff that I haven't looked at since I got back from Iraq and I'm afraid she will find them. I also have a disk with softcore pics on it that I'm afraid she will find and that I have not looked at since I got back. I told her about the lies that I have told my Army buddies about her and I having an amazingly sexual relationship. Truth be told we have maybe had sex 40 times in the last 5 years. And that is pushing it. I told her the lies that I had told my coworkers at work and how I thought she was going to leave me. Subconsciously, if I were her I'd leave me too. I can see why I lied along themes like that. I lied about some of the stuff we did in Iraq. She was under the perception that we got mortered everyday. We did get motered like 3 or 4 times and that scared the heck out of me. I got shot at 3 times where it was really close. I told her once that I had a bullet hole in my pants, but not a scratch on me. It was close, but not that close. It is so pathetic of me. I mean I lied and she sat here at home worrying that I wouldn't make it. She thought I was going to die. It was dangerous and I did go outside the wire almost everyday with Iraqis rather than Americans. That story is fantastic enough. Why do I want to complicate it. So I have kind of gotten to the point in the last 60 days that I don't want to talk about Iraq. I feel like it becomes a complicated lie that I have to keep up with. I have three separate lives and I want ONE. I have My Army Life, My Work Life and My Home Life.

 

I fear being accepted. I see how it works out, with new people I get to this point where they are so attuned to my stories. They think I'm this great guy with all this personhood and then my tap runs out, no more stories, So I seem to make something up about what happened at work or some other unverifiable place. I really alienate people with the bluntness of my selfdisclosure. And then from the shock value of that comes the lies and the traps and all the webs of immaturity and not telling the truth.

 

This will probably cost me my marriage, my house, nest egg, and my best friend.

 

Life is really going down the toilet right now.

[Beec]

At this point in time, coming clean and being honest is something you need to do. You exposed your warts, and things will take time. But you did just show a lot fo trust in your wife. Let's hope she credits that.

 

I don't think life is going down the toilet. But you might be fishing it out.

[mike_chppr]

Yes I hope she does credit that. She is going to counseling tomorrow. But it could just turn more into a hate ME session.

 

I am extremely vulnerable right now. I've been reading the website from Molly above. Honestly the fact that I broke with so many things at once, the odds of patching it up does not look good. It really seems more like I divulged the deluge of lies to seal my own fate. Have her divorce me and get the pain and turmoil of her deciding if she can feel "in love with me" over.

 

But the larger question still exists. Why do I have all these separate lies and like was mentioned above, I'm not fooling anyone.

 

After reading on the deception website I also recognize that 100% disclosure is not the best policy either.

[mike_chppr]

I told my wife about journaling here online instead of just in my computer. She obviously doesn't want to read this and I don't really want her to know where it is. Am I hiding it by not sending her the URL or should I just say that I am posting on a webboard. Part of her busting me out on lying is the fact that I didn't tell her that I was posting my life onto a webboard but just journaling. She really feels alienated right now, as if she has never known who I was, who I am, and if I'll have a deluge of other lies to deliver two years down the road. She cannot say she loves me even casually as she is unsure of even that. How can she love someone when she feels like they aren't the person they grew to know.

 

The how to stop lying part is confusing. I read the whole deception site except for the cheating portions. It essentially says that full disclosure can be detrimental. As there can become more conflicts than positive experiences. In essense we lie to maximize the positive experiences in order to foster healthy relationships. Right now full disclosure is my policy. If she decides in fact that the trust cannot be rebuilt and hence that she cannot ever fall in love with me, then our marriage is doomed.

 

I've come clean to my coworkers about some of the lies as well. They seem to think it is OK, it is part of the austere of who I am. I disagree, I have three separate lives and I want a single consistent one. I came clean with my team leader from Iraq and my Brother and Uncle as well. The only problem I'm facing now is that we are having Thanksgiving at some friends. I feel like I am living a lie by not cluing them in on what is going on between us. It is conflicting with my desire to be 100% transparent. She has told her parents, but doesn't want to talk with them about it while we are at their house. She doesn't want some sort of parental intervention. And she doesn't want to ruin their Christmas for them. They have their lives and she has hers. I respect that, but I don't believe her parents will be able to keep from thinking or talking about it. I will be able to not talk about it especially now knowing that they know.

 

I need to spend some more time reveling in the consequences of my actions. I need to truly feel the total devistating impact that it has had on those around me. But then again how long should I beat myself up. Isolated and alone. The person that knows the most about me feels as if she doesn't know me at all. Talk about feeling like a deject... rejected and abandoned. I wish I could start all over, meet her at a bar, hi my name is Mike can i buy you a drink. Kind of like the fairy tale world on Grey's Anatomy. In reality that is what it will be like to rebuild the trust. I need my best friend right now, but in the same sense I don't deserve it.

 

I should focus on the lonliness and the damage that my lying has caused to me and others around me. It is that kind of pain that I need to rewire my brain to seek pleasure. I just need to really really feel that pain.

[Beec]

You might consider copying and apsting what you write here and showing her some things, not all.

 

Full disclosure is not always requried and there can be times when you say: "Hey, NO TALKING ABOUT THIS, not now, not with _____."

[mike_chppr]

Beec,

 

Thanks I think that is a good idea, I just need to present it to her in a way that is appropriate. I tend to have this method.

 

I've done all this work on this project and really want you to look at it.

I beef it up for hours

 

Then just before she gets the chance to look at it. I retort you don't have to if you don't want to.

 

She calls this being passive aggressive. I'm not sure it falls in that catagory, but I don't know which defense catagory it would fall into.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I think more than anything else she needs her space.

[Beec]

She is right, it's passive aggressive. Get rid of the passive aggressive. If you need to be aggressive, then be flat out aggressive. Women are often passive aggressive, men should be aggressive.

 

I like what you are doing, but I would aslo ask her to read it because you want her to. And stick to it.

[mike_chppr]

You know what I don't have to show her the boards. If she wants to see them she can look them up online. I told all my lies to get her to feel sorry for me. Yes, I've told lies, yes, I make * * * * up. But I am honest to her and trustworthy. I was reminded by a coworker how I called her on the phone one night from vegas to let her know that the guys were going to go to a strip club and I was going to go along. I just wanted her to know so she didn't find out in some sort of backhanded way. That is truthfulness in a way that counts. That is what I have done and that is what I will continue to do weather she is a part of my life or not. I will not make * * * * up with her again, and I have come clean in other areas of my life, will I never withold real truths or hide things from her. Sure I will, but it also comes down to respecting the other persons emotions. To truly empathize with them. To say. "That shirt makes you look pregnant" instead of "How about you give me another option" is that really lying. I admit fully that life is complicated and that I have lied and do not continue to want to embellish real truths. Does she want to know the truth about Iraq. I was in fear of loosing my life everyday. It felt like I was going to get mortered everyday. It felt like I was going to get shot everyday. It felt like I was going to get blown up everyday. That is how it felt. Did it really happen. rarely, but was the FEAR real. Yes it was a real truth. I can come clean all I want, but is it really just an attempt to disclose to obtain affection. I really need her right now and she isn't there. To hell with her. I love her and want to spend the rest of my life with her, but I can't continue to do this to myself. I feel sorry for the lies that I have told I really do, but I can only grovel in my own misery for so long. I'm better than this. I refuse to give her any more reasons to walk out on our marriage than she already has. She needs to own up, either she wants to live alone, or she wants to be with me. If she wants to be with me then we can start working through in counseling together. If she doesn't then bygolly lets get thid friggen thing over with. So I can move on and be happy.

[AwdreeHpburn]

Hi MIke -

 

Hey - Thanks for your honesty by the way.

 

i know someone who you sound a LOT like.

 

He was (IS) a GREAT guy! Fun to be around, smart but has a really low self esteem.

 

He forever makes up stories, out right lies, exaggerates etc. The whole 9 yards, right.

 

When I first met him I had no idea. But it was his step brother who let me in. He is a story teller by nature. So....couple that with someone who doesn't think he's worth anything, but like the reast of us, wants to be, and you've got yourself a pathological liar. He doesn't do it to hurt people. AT ALL. In fact it's quite the opposite. He does it so people will LIKE him.

 

I don't know if this is a similiar thing to what you're going through or not, but the ONLY way to change this behaviour is by changing the way you think.

 

May SOUND easy but seems to be one of the most difficult things on the planet to do.

 

You have to re-train yourself. Change the way you think about what will come AFTER the story is told. Change your perception of the NEED for the story.

 

I think people CAN change, but there has to be MORE than a deep desire to do so. Maybe the threat of a wife leaving is proper motivation.

[mike_chppr]

Ta Ree Saw

 

I agreee, I don't lie to hurt others I lie to be liked, be interesting, or be acknowledged. That is as far as the storytelling goes or just making stuff up. Your right, I need to address what the NEED is and feed it in an appropriate and more honest manner.

 

As far as hiding things from my spouse because I don't want to hurt her feelings or meddle with her insecurities, I need to work on that. I think a big part of that comes from learning how to empathize and truly feel emotion. That is the route I'm taking next. I'm going to order a set of emotional IQ books. Add that with therapy. The therapist thinks I'm beating myself up too much over the whole thing. Everyone of my friends that don't know my wife say the same things. I recognize that she is hurt, but I think this is a small part of the big picture. I came clean as a way to cleanse our relationship. To show her that I am willing to let her in to know me and what goes on in that stoic head of mine. And she is going to use this as a weapon against me. Yes she is hurt and I recognize that. But * * *!

[mike_chppr]

Well it is over. She said it best.

 

If we don't have trust we don't have anything.

 

I lied to her and there is nothing that will keep that trigger in the back of her head that says I won't dump a deluge of lies on her again in two years.

 

On the issue of lying. I did hurt people. Some of the lies I told my wife told to her mother. They sat on the phone for hours crying over some of those stories. Even though they were true in theme and not in details, I still lied.

 

She doesn't want me to contact her parents, after we had our it is through argument. I sent them an email.

 

At the very least I owe you guys a very sincere apology.

 

I'm sorry

[barbie16]

your heading caught my eye as this is a similar problem its so spontaneous and you feel like you have to lie to make things ok or protect somebody i know! its horrible. i have recently lost m best friend a boyfriend and various other close people because of one huge missunderstanding which i have now lied about to get them to leave me alone. i dont know how to fix it. just honestly tell atleast your wife before she leaves as i am having a really hard time coping knowing my hurt is all because of myself and knwing i dont deserve forgiveness. if you dont take advice from anybody else take it from somebody who's experienced the downfall

[fashionista007]

Wow. Reading this thread really hit home for me. I am also a liar and I also pretend to have more problems than I actually do. I told my psychiatrist all of this and she diagnosed me with borderline personality disorder. Which of course made me happy cuz it was one more disorder to add to my list. I think for me the lying makes my life exciting. It's the excitement that I need and the drama to keep me going. I think we both need to find other outlets to create excitement in our lives. I know that I could never live without any type of excitement, my life would be too boring, I'd be depressed again and want to kill myself. And I too am incredibly intelligent, I graduated Magne Cum Laude with a degree in computer programming (for real, not lying haha). Maybe people like us always need a challenge and keeping track of our lies is definitely a challenge