Wife of 17 years cheats with THREE guys!!

[doman]

Hello. I really need some help in sorting out some issues. I have recently learned that my wife of 17+ years started cheating on me about 20 months ago. On March 10, 2006 she didn’t come home until about 5:30am. She walked in with a hickee. Apparently, she had gotten drunk and tried to have sex with another much younger guy, 22. I was awake, waiting for her. I had just about been ready to call the hospitals, except that I just assumed she stayed over at our mutual good friends house. Well, she was out our friends house...everybody had gotten drunk and passed out pretty much. I asked my wife what happened...and she told me. I say tried because apparently, the guy was too drunk to get it up...but my wife admitted after strenous urging that she did other things to try to get him up. She said she didn’t remember how it got started or how she was even in the same room with him. She only remembered bits and pieces...and that she woke up later, got dressed and came home. I was VERY upset...but, being a recovering alcholoc of 19 years, I knew what I needed to do. Forgiveness was not optional...I knew I wanted to forgive her...I just needed some time. It helped that I quickly came to terms of blaming the alcohol (even if misguided). I was also angry at the friends that let my wife even get into that position. I had told them about this guy (the brother of our mutual friend) that he was a loose canon alcoholic, and that he was going to kill somebody after his last drunken binge/car accident. Well, he did just that in killing our friendship between his brother, his wife and my wife and I. In fact, the wife of his brother killed herself recently, so I pretty much believed that my wife’s actions, in part, killed her best friend. Or, at least so I thought.

 

The other part was that the other wife and husband had decided to “swing” with another couple. This was right after my wife messed around with the brother...so we were not around them at all, after we had had spent nearly every evening and weekend with this couple. Well, actually, my wife spent every evening over there...I was only over there 1 or so nights during the week...and then on the weekends. Usually, I went out to play tennis, or worked around the house or worked at work. Well, the swinging backfired, and the wife called us in April on the Thursday before Easter to say she needed help...that she wanted to leave her husband. 10 weeks later, she killed herself. I only THOUGHT I knew why.

 

My wife had been in a tremendous amount of pain from loosing her best friend. I was also very remorseful that I wasn’t able to help this friend, as I was with her three days before she killed her self as she attempted to voluntarily check herself into a mental hospital. She left AMA and then killed herself three days later. For the past two months, I only THOUGHT I knew why she felt so bad.

 

Last Saturday, my wife and I went to play tennis. We had been getting along great. I have been really trying to be there for her, but she was just breaking down nearly every day. So down, I was scared she was turning suicidal as she made numerous comments that she wished she was dead. I kept telling her how great life was...and that things would get better. Earlier in the week, I had gotten an email telling me that my wife had slept with the husband of the deceased wife AND another person at work. I denied it profusely...but as the emails kept coming back, and my wifes obvious depression, I started to wonder. So, when she said she had something she need to tell me, but that it was going to hurt. She referred to AAs step to admit wrong, except when to do so would cause injury to others. I told her she needed to get it off her chest, that it was going to kill her...and that I would be ok...that I needed to know.

 

She told me the truth. Apparently, the drunken incident was the THIRD person. Just after the birth of her best friend’s 2nd child, her friend asked my wife to sleep with her husband, to help out because she couldn’t keep up!?!?!?!?! I am not kidding. I know this is REAL Jerry Springer stuff...but this is triple confirmed by ALL three guilty parties, to my great dismay. Keep in mind, these are friends of mine for the pat 10 years. According to my wife, she didn’t oblige at first, but eventually, after her friend showed her a video, and kept the pressure on, she gave in. She ended up having sex with him 5 times. This was while I was at work, she would go over to their house. The wife would be in the front room. My wife finally broke it off...although I am not entirely sure why. That was in Feb 2005.

 

Then, in Nov 2005, she had apparently been flirting around with a co-worker. While I was gone on a student camping trip, of which I had asked my wife to help out with, she secretely planned for this guy to come over to our house, and they slept in our bed. Apparently, he came over, they did it, and he left. Then, two months later, she met the guy at work, and they did it in a car in the parking lot. That was Jan 2006. Then there was the drunken incident in March 2006.

 

She did told me at the time of the drunken incident that it was the only time. She didn’t know how to tell me. She started seeing a counselor in March, and we have been getting a long great. Even this past week, we have gotten a long great. The day she told me about the other two, I pretty much left to go be by myself. I thought about a lot of things. We have been together for 17 years. She has never been very happy. For the last 8 years, we have been trying to have children, spent a UNGODLY amount of month in 6 different IUI and IVF procedures, to know avail. ALL of our friends have now had two rounds of kids, including her sisters. Each pregnancy announcement has cut like a knife at my wife.

 

I could go on and on about our relationship, but suffice it to say, she has never been really happy, as a person, or, in my opinion, even with me. She tells me 10 times a day that she loves me...especially lately, but really, I think she just feels trapped. She never finished school. And really, we have never made much money, which resulted in a lot of our stress over the years.

 

But since she told me everything, I have REALLY put forward a solid front of GRACE and forgiveness...but it hurts so bad inside. I lay awake at night in my bed thinking of the night she slept in it with somebody else. We have slept together a couple times already since just last Sat, and I do love her...but almost every thought over every moment, except when I am really distracted, is...”she slept with somebody else 8 times”!!! And except for the last one, they weren’t accidents, or moments of passion. They were cold, calculated events. She was deceitful...and held inside.

 

But, I want to forgive her. I want her to feel the grace that she deserves...she really is a sweet person who has never had anything to be really happy about. I think that we have had a good life...but we aren’t where we planned to be. No kids. I am not site to look at. And I have had to work hard to make ends meet. I have made some bad career choices that have resulted in a lot of wasted time in becoming financially successful. My main career is not enough income...so I have two other jobs. She wanted to finish school, but years and years ago, after watching her REALLY struggle in classes, I discouraged from continuing, so she has been depressed about that.

 

So, excpet for her sleeping with other people, I understand why she is so upset. But personally, I don’t understand how she could EVER have slept with another person. Out sex life has only been so, so. For years, she says that we didn’t have sex but once a month or so just because she was so unhappy. Her in the past 8 years, we have had more sex, sometimes 8 out of 16 days...but that is also because of the infertility issues. But even still, we generally, have been having better sexual relations. (Sadly, a clue that somebody is having an afair). But it still doesn’t change the fact that MANY times, we don’t have sex because she doesn’t feel good, or she ate too much, or hasn’t eaten enough, etc. They are legitimate reasons...I don’t doubt her. And she is not very permiscious. I JUST don’t understand how she could ACTUALLY have invited a guy over to our house...and slept with him in our bed!!! Did our cats get in bed with them also like they like to do to us? Did they use our toys in my bedside table?

 

The counselor she has been seeing has really been helping. And I am really faking it (she just called)...but I am really hurting. A close friend of mine says I need to get a sponsor. Others say I need to go to a counselor...but I just need to hear from others who have gone through this, both sides. How did she do it? I know she feels guilty, but she had sex with a guy in a car...something she hadn’t been willing to do with me since 1989!!! (And I have asked!)

 

How am I supposed to address my feelings of laying there in a bed that she slept with somebody else with????

[motog]

hi mate you may have had your problems but depends how you feel when you look at her. does she really care about that?. in your bed?have a think about that one!. my heart goes out to you and its your call . your even blaming yourself for the decisions shes making for herself. .stay safe

[NJRon]

Your last question really hits home with me. Personally, I got a new bed. After 19 years of sobriety with AA, I would assume you already *have* a sponsor. You *definitely* need to go to a counselor either on your own or with her. These are serious marital issues.

 

You were sober when you two married. At first I thought that perhaps you were giving her so much forgiveness because you felt that you owed her something due to your drinking. However, you appear to be making a *lot* of excuses for her. Too many in fact.

 

As for the answers of why she did it... sometimes, those never come... and no one else can answer for her. They would only be assumptions.

 

I hope you seek some support for yourself. Even if you are able to continue being "supportive", the resentment and destruction of trust are a lot more difficult to let go of than you might think.

[doman]

Your last question really hits home with me. Personally, I got a new bed. After 19 years of sobriety with AA, I would assume you already *have* a sponsor. You *definitely* need to go to a counselor

 

However, you appear to be making a *lot* of excuses for her. Too many in fact.

 

I hope you seek some support for yourself. Even if you are able to continue being "supportive", the resentment and destruction of trust are a lot more difficult to let go of than you might think.

 

Well, I went to 3 meetings a day for two years, and then just a few a year as I got sucked into the life of a college student (a non drinking student working toward the Deans list each semester, etc.) I sobered up at 19, so it was pretty much just a life change. I NEVER really idenitified with other people enough to claim a sponsor...although I ABSOLUTELY admit that I am an alcoholic and try to work a balanced program none-the-less, albeit sans sponsor. It WOULD be nice to have one right now...but unless I am willing to sponsor, and regularly attend meetings, it is difficult to justify. Although, this past summer, I went to meetings regularly while off from school, actually trying to pick out a sponsor...and I just never found one I thought I could work with.

 

As far as making excuses for her, yes, I am. Because of my being a recovering person, she refrained from drinking when we first got together...and, basically, we had a pretty dull life. I worked...she helped me work. About 8 years ago, I started working for a company part time, that eventually turned into full time for about 6 years, and then back to parttime, as it is now. Good parttime money...but very difficult full time, at least for me. The good thing that did come from it was couple friends, which are really hard to come by. Anyway, most of them drank, and she started to drink a little. Then, as she became more depressed about the inferitlity (and what I learned to be infidelity also), she started to drink more.

 

Anyway, point is, yes, I do feel that she has been pretty depressed for the past 17 years. Just tonight, we got into our second fight in three days...the most we have fought since Oct 2004 (as long as you don't count her telling me about her infidelity a fight). Both times were centered around the idea that I am really not the man she wants me to be. Saturday, we fought once again about some current style blue jeans, you know, the ones that look like they are already dirty. I refuse to wear them...she bought me ANOTHER pair (we went through this a couple of years ago) of grungy jeans. She just doesn't understand that when they look dirty is how i know it is time to put them in the wash. Grungy jeans is too much of a flash back ot when I was little kid and my mom making me put my jeans in the wash.

 

Anyway, the point is that she is on some sort of eternal kick to keep me young and modern...and she just doesn't understand that I don't want to wear jeans that are as thick at my ankles as my oversize thighs are. And I REALLY think it is a strong indication of what lead to her sleeping around in the first place.

[candy604]

i'm sorry to hear what happened to you, but it really sounds like your wife needs to learn how to love herself and she probably feels underachieved. she needs to work on herself, sometimes problems can cause a person to do crazy things and they don't know why (perhaps they think it could help solve some of their problems or make them forget about it). They aren't in the right state of mind. What she did was not right, but she does sound like she needs to get help and i am glad she's seeing a counselor. Financial troubles and not able to have children are very depressing. I know how financial troubles are ( my parents fought about it for about 15 years) - major fights.

 

i hope you can work your marriage out.

[NJRon]

If you are willing to throw away your marriage because you don't like the way a pair of jeans look... while at the same time forgive the breaking of vows... then I think that you need to turn your head around a bit.

 

I think the strong indication is that it sounds like you have been the *same* man for 17 years. Perhaps it's time you pick your battles. Maybe you don't need to change the way *she* wants you to change in every way... but change (and growth) is always good.

 

However, think carefully. You chose a full life over alcohol. That is a very hard decision for many ... but you made it and it works for you. Now... are you going to choose fashion sense over marriage?

 

You are saying that the fights center around not being the man she wants you to be. Instead, I see someone that is being stubborn and not being the man he *could* be... Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?

 

Try something new. There's no harm in a little silliness and some change. No need to change your core personality...

 

Why are you standing up to her so much over a pair of jeans yet not for her sleeping around 8 times on you? What are you *really* struggling over here?

[puppeteer]

dude...get out of the building.

 

 

wow.

[doman]

Puppeteer, easier said than done. For one, I am committed to staying. I married her...I have to learn to deal with it. Quitting is not an option. Although, it does not help that she quit on me. She really seems to be trying...except, she definitely has more deep seeded issues than a normal person. It doesn't help that we JUST moved into a $150k home, etc. AND I KNOW she feels trapped, which is part of the problem. She doesn't have a huge earning capacity...and I KNOW it is frustrating to her. She saw her friend end up with out a job, in a divorce, two kids to support...and she decided to check out because she couldn't deal with it. My wife didn't finish school...in large part to my STRONG recommendation to stop. She really couldn't handle more than one class at a time.

 

candy604, you hit the nail on the head. Despite being a cute, petite, 5', 115 lb cutie/hotie, she is not happy with her apperance...feels a tremondous amount of pressure to loose wieght, work out, etc. She was also adopted, and has a twin sister, who is more dominate, overbearing and downright controlling and annoying.

 

NJRon, good points and questions again. I am NOT willing to throw it all away over a pair of jeans...I was just trying to explain her state of mind. I do LOTS of things (stylewise) just to make her happy. I wear these really small, modern glasses. She KNOWS I prefer my old glasses, but she really likes these, so unless I am doing something that I need a full size glass for, I wear these glasses for her. There are several shirts that she really likes that I wear when we are going out, etc. There are other things...but I guess not as many as I should. Like, she cuts my hair...and I know she would prefer that I style it...just no time...nor care to deal with a hair style. She cuts it short...and I love it. It just seems we have fought over jeans specifically...but it is everything together. Like she wants me to wear this batch of shorts that she got me...even though they are uncomfortably hot to me. I did buy two pairs of jeans, but apparently, she HATES them because they are striaght leg. I understand picking my battles...and I do try. I work out with wieghts because she likes me to. I wear cologne, because she likes me to. We go to movies because she likes then when she KNOWS I would MUCH rather enjoy our FINE home theater...no cell phone users, not hat wearing fools, etc.

 

I do want to be happy. I do want to look good. And I feel that I do ok. But she puts SO DANG much pressure on how I look, it is difficult. She is so caught up in the materialistic looks. It is not that I am NOT standing up to her sleeping around...but short of kicking her out (she voluntarily left...but I told her she could come back), what else can I do. She has swore up and down she will not do it again and how sorry she is, etc.

[Rabican]

trapped.... trapped!!!!

 

Gotta be kidding me. You dont sleep with 3 people 8 times people because you feel trapped.

 

Look at the facts:

 

Shes not happy.

 

Your not happy

 

She slept with another guy

 

Then another guy

 

then another guy, in your bed.

 

She lied about it when she first told you

 

At this point I would be wondering if every time I left the house, or every time she was in a bad mood if we were headed for her having another affair. The call is yours, but I dont think that marriage means you HAVE to stay with someone no matter what. There are instances when you have the right to yourself to do whats best for YOU. That may, or may not mean staying in an unhappy marirage.

 

Personally, id be running for the hills.

[candy604]

hmm...girls like to buy clothes for their men and see them wear it. But perhaps if she wants to change your style, you can go shopping with her and let her pick out some clothes for you to wear? hehe but it's kind of good if you keep up with some sort of fashion, at least look decent. ( or get contacts, hence a soln to the glasses problem). yeah it's not her that just complains about style, i do it too to my bf and so do some of my gf's to their bf's. but not as extensive though. Usually we buy them clothes and i always remind my bf to cut his hair and shave.

 

5' and 115? that's normal! why is she feeling a pressure to loose weight. just tell her you love her the way she is.

 

is your wife working?

 

I'm wondering if she can take just one course at school if it makes her feel better. Part-time student or something. Also does she feel like she can spend some of the money you make? ask in she doesn't have to ask permission all the time.etc.

[NJRon]

Doman, I know where you are coming from and, believe me, I doubt that the whole issue surrounds a pair of jeans. I'm just asking you to put things in perspective. You are *not* standing up for yourself in terms of her infidelity... you are basically giving her carte-blanche to come on back and, as long as she's good, you'll be fine. However, you are standing up for yourself in terms of how you want to be dressed... style.

 

It just seems to me that you may be misdirecting the anger and resentment that you feel onto *other* things... fighting for them beyond what they are worth and, in fact, not appreciating the fun that can be had with someone else dressing you up the way they want to see you and finding you even *more* attractive. Who cares what you look like?... *she's* the one that has to look at you.

 

I am concerned, you are focusing your *will power* to act forgiving, because you feel you want to forgive her... but are, instead, having your perceptions of other things colored by your negative emotions, instead of appropriately addressing them because, forgiveness itself takes a long time... it can't be acted.

 

It is obvious that she does not feel attractive. She has shown that when someone else shows her attraction, she felt better about herself. Yes, she has a lot of self-esteem issues to work through. If, however, you wish to work on forgiveness, then you need to accept her *with* her faults. Realizing this, could you see how she might be wanting to bring that *spark* back and feel loved and do it in a way that she actually *feels* it. because, if she *felt* it before, she probably wouldn't have done what she did. So, it's not that you don't love her... quite the contrary... it's merely that you are showing it in a way that she doesn't recognize/feel as love... can only intellectually understand it as such.

 

Listen to her clues on how she perceives being loved and try, for even a short while, to accommodate those things. You may start to see some changes, especially in yourself.

 

This is all just some food for thought here. I obviously can't know the situation as well as you. Which is why I definitely recommend some professional counseling... for yourself and, then at the right time... for you two together.

[Iceman26]

trapped.... trapped!!!!

 

Gotta be kidding me. You dont sleep with 3 people 8 times people because you feel trapped.

 

Look at the facts:

 

Shes not happy.

 

Your not happy

 

She slept with another guy

 

Then another guy

 

then another guy, in your bed.

 

She lied about it when she first told you

 

At this point I would be wondering if every time I left the house, or every time she was in a bad mood if we were headed for her having another affair. The call is yours, but I dont think that marriage means you HAVE to stay with someone no matter what. There are instances when you have the right to yourself to do whats best for YOU. That may, or may not mean staying in an unhappy marirage.

 

Personally, id be running for the hills.

 

Agreed. She didn't hold up to her end of the marriage, and I personally don't see why you would subject yourself to a walking nightmare like her for the rest of your life.

[motog]

victory at too higher cost must be considered defeat

[NJRon]

At the same time... someone is here asking for advice on how to get there relationship on track. Trying to tell them to just throw that away instead is an entirely different thing.

 

I would hope that anyone who has been through a similar experience with infidelity would understand the ramifications and know that it is potentially better to walk away from the relationship. Broken vows are that.. broken.

 

I would hope that there is careful scrutiny over the value of a relationship that has been compromosed and a true understanding of how much work will actually be entailed in repairing it. From BOTH parties.

 

If a true desire to reconcile does not exist... or the desire is driven by attachment or habit, then it is not appropriate. However, I would not venture to know what has driven the decision, only that it is their own.

 

In line with helping to achieve this end, does anyone else have anything to say concerning how someone could reconcile a marriage in which the other partner has discarded their committment multiple times? Personally... I lack the experience to help much beyond looking back at where things went wrong and trying to figure out how to rectify. Beyond looking back, even if during only the courting stage when things were good, and trying to start acting like that to re-ignite the spark.

 

I have been the victim of infidelity numerous times. Sometimes I realized that the relationship wasn't worth such a breach. Sometimes I fought for them and "won" them back... it was a true booby prize. In each case, I had my own reasoning for it based upon a number of factors that could never be fully communicated. However, when I tried to save it, it was always because I made a "promise" to do everything in my power to stay together forever and, unless I did that, I felt that I wasn't be true to myself. Personal characetr flaw? Perhaps. A learning experience? definitely. I still wish I knew a way to *know* when someone was *really* changing and not just *appearing* to change. I still don't, but I can understand the desire.

 

It feels easier to stay and harder to move on. It's easier to forgive when you move on and harder to heal when you stay. And sometimes, staying is more about proving that you can stay... than proving you can love. What better love is there than to love oneself? When pride is confused with love... then what are you *really* trying to prove? That you can do whatever it takes? Or that you can love?

 

Who else can know the motivation but the person experiencing it?

[doman]

Iceman, you are right, it has been tough. Obviosuly, she is pretty pyshco. I knew she had challenges. but at this point, we have spent 17 years of my life with her. I am 38...no spring chicken any more. I don't know much of any other life...and can't imagine life with out her.

 

I BELIEVE that if it happens again, I will figure out a way at that point to live with out her. I think the one things that makes this situation suck worse than say just one guy, is that there were three guys total. If it were an act of passion, or just happened, or anything other than three guys, two of them strategically planned and calculated around my schedule, etc.

 

It is just that she was with me, committed to staying married during several fights many years ago (refusing to leave and/or even consider divorce). We did have a few close calls about 4 years ago, when she was packing her bags to leave when I came around to my senses and apologized once again for being a knuckle head. What really happened is that I decided I would not confront her about anything that I thought she was doing wrong, or if she was running over my rights, so be it.

 

Our last BIG fight was in Oct 2004 when I questioned her about her coffee consumption. We had been trying to get her preganat for 6 years, trying ALL kinds of things, like Clomid (when she nearly killed me...well, threatned me with a knife anyway, while on that psychotic hormone) IUIs and eventually even two IVFs (VERY expensive procedures). She has dermagraphy (aka skin writing) and has major challenges when she gets off her medicine. Problem is that the medicine makes having children difficult. Add to the fact that she is constally worried or stressed about something, she is/has a hostile environment for trying to get pregnant. So, one morning, I asked her why she was drinking so much coffee. SHE FREAKING BLEW UP!

 

I made a committment to NEVER question anything she was doing. It is hard to do.. coming from the classroom all day where I am very much in control over everything that goes on in my room. But, usually, I am pretty good about.

 

NJRon, WOW! What insight you have. I don't blame myself, but in early 2005, when she "wandered" I was in "whatever you want to do, sweeitie" mode. She wanted to go watch the first guy play baseball (with his wife there also), I went to play tennis. I was ok with it. But, she claims she wanted to be with me. I have to chalk it up as a lack of communication! WOW!! What a consequence of not communicating. I thought we were doing pretty good. She was happy going over to these friends of ours. I guess they got so close, they thought they could do what they did. I went over there frequently also, but usually once a week and once on the weekend. But I guess that was not frequently enough. My wife was over there pretty much every day, helping the wife take care of their 5 year old, and their new born.

 

I KNOW it is not my fault this happened...but I did let her stay out and about with these friends of our an extraordinary amount of time. There were many evenings I was home alone. But then, during the first 12-13 years, she was home alone ALOT waiting on me to come home from work. DUring the first few years of my teaching, I worked 60-80 a week AT school. Then, for two years, they gave me the yearbook, which bumped the hours per week to 80-100...and my wife actually came up to school to work 20 hours on top of her full week.

 

When she found such a close friend, I was more than happy that she spent time over there. I thought our life was going the best it ever had. Our sex life even improved. We were not fighting. So, I do think it a lot of the responsibility falls to me for all of this happening. I don't think the second and third guy would have happened if it were not for the first.

 

Although, really, now almost three weeks after finding out, I still don't know how she actually did this. You think after 15 years, you know a person. It is just mind boggeling that she wandered. We have slept together 3 times in the last couple of weeks, and generally, things are good between us. But, as I mentioned with my first post, when I lay there at night, I have a hard time putting it out of my mind.

[NJRon]

This is a lot of work you are signing up for. If you are truly determined to see this through, then you need to start doing the work.

 

Have you found your own counselor/therapist yet? A website with a bunch of different people giving all of their own different views is great for allowing you to think about issues from a different perspective... getting input... Use it appropriately.

 

It seems that you are blaming yourself even though you realize that you shouldn't blame yourself. That's still justifying another's actions.

 

It seems as if you are reflecting on the negative things that could have caused this to happen instead of the positive things that kept it from happening for so long.

 

Someone who is in a commited relationship does not make decisions of such magnitude without consulting and mutually agreeing to them with their partner. I find it ironic that the couple she cheated on with entered into that arrangement in mutual agreement, whereas your did not. Mutual agreement is one of the most important elements to a comitted relationship.

 

Fighting does not *cause* infidelity. Neither is *not* fighting. I am also amazed at the things I did not know about someone I thought I was completely intimate with. You have a much longer time with her than I have ever had with one woman... I can only imagine how confused about it you must be.

 

If things are good between you two, then you both must have radically changed how you are acting towards one another. Is it a healthy change that is fostering love and intimacy? Or is it a change in the direction of shielding each other's hearts and thoughts from one another for fear of conflict?

 

This will *all* keep rumbling around in your head until you get counseling, she gets counseling and then you two are able to communicate about it at an intimate level... which is probably best done in yet another, mutual counseling environment.

 

I am glad that you are really thinking about all of this... it's important stuff. I wish you strength and the ability to forgive yourself and your wife.

[doman]

Well, she has been going to a counselor since the drunken incident in March. She told him about everything (about the other two and previous 7 times she was with another man) right off the bat...and she had made a lot of progress...especially before the death (suicide) of her friend that she had gone in cahoots with over the first guy.

 

The death sent her on a tail spin and she was PRETTY messed up. She was messed up for a lot of reasons...but in particular (as I learned three weeks ago) about the unconfessed sin that was in large part of what killed her friend. She and the counselor had pretty much decided not to tell me. I knew about the last incident, and as far as my wife was concerend, she wasn't going to let it happen again, so why hurt me even more.

 

The only reason she finally admitted ALL of her wrong doings was because I was receiving the anonymous emails...and I was defending my wife bigtime. In the mean time, the guilt was eating her up...not jsut about what she did to me...but for the guilt she felt about not being a better friend/Chirstian for her best friend she had ever had in her life.

 

Anyway, point is that she has been making good progress. She made a lot of progress for the first 3 months in that she was sharing more with me. She was open about her feelings for the first time...ever. And before the death of her friend, we were getting along really well. I quickly forgave her (it was easy...she was drunk), and so, recovery seemed to come quickly.

 

I think that is what has made this so confusing. We were already on the road to recovery. She was seeing a counselor and was working on herself. I offered to go any time she wanted me to. We were spending a lot of time together. We weren't arguing. We were working on our house, shopping together, just like the old days where we pretty much did EVERYTHING together. I wasn't spending much time at work, and then summer hit, and was taking her to work, fixing her lunch every day, going to sleep with her at the same time each night, etc. Then suicide, then two months of depression...and then the secrete revealled.

 

So...what can I get from a counselor???? We are waiting for an opening in the afternoon for us both to get intogether...to talk about some of these long standing issues...but really, I have decided you are correct...WHO CARES what I look like...I am going to wear whatever she wants me to!

 

But, what can I get from a individual counselor? I have never been a fan of a counselor. It took a long time (my wife had to sleep with three guys...although...I only knew about one of them) for me to realize my wife REALLY needed one. We went together to the first one...and I parted out to let them talk. That counselor didn't last but that one session...she just sat there and tried to get my wife to talk...which was a HUGE mistake. Wife came out of that session asking, "Do I have to go back to that person?". So, we found another...and she pretty much just said, "I am the one who needs the counselor...you don't need to go with me".

 

To me, going to counselor is like going to an AA meeting and saying, "Hello, I am hainvg a problem with acceptance". And then for the next hour, you get told for one hour EVERYTHING that you already know...so after about the first person, you feel like a dodo for even saying anything. I mean, I already know what I need to be doing. WHat can counselor say? Or do that I don't already know???

 

I am not trying to be argumentative. On contrary, your adivce already has been incredibly inciteful. I wouldn't mind having a good friend to confide in...but I barely even have any friends...other than my wife. One of my closest friends was the guy she slept with!!! Ain't that the Jerry Springer kicker of them all??? I know that acceptance is the answer to all my problems today (pg 449). I know that the secrete to happiness is the serenity prayer, one day at a time, focus on the solution, let go let God, etc.

 

I mean I have friends, but who all do you want to know your wife slept with three people. The ones who know, what can they say, but sit there an listen. What can a counselor say, except than listen? I can just write it down and pretend I told somebody, which is what I did. And then I found this site...and likes of you...seems just as useful as a counselor. Want me to PPal you some money for your time?

 

Really, there is no point in talking about it any more. The only reason I came here and poured out my soul is to know how to deal with the memories. I will forgive her. I will work on the solution. I will accept her as she is, and work to be a great husband...but how do I deal with the thoughts. I know how to act...and I know it is just a matter of time...it just sucks to finish making love to her...and be thinking about what she did.

[NJRon]

Hehe... I'm glad you're getting something valuable. Keep ccoming back if you want to spill more thoughts. Sometimes, even though I *know* what to do and I am trying to do it, I still woudl like to be able to say:

 

I am doing this and it just sucks...

 

Venting actually does help... and it's good that you are getting some of your stuff out there.

 

Not all counselors are created equally... some just sit there and listen and offer no feedback, some offer only feedback and don't seem to help because, as you say, you alreday know it. the best counselors offer a safe space for you to vent your feelings, get at the heart of the issue and then offer helpful advice moving forward and then coach you along the way.

 

The only reason why I suggest a counselor foor you is because, in this type of situation, a lot of anger is generated over the betrayal, injustice, etc. The benefit of having an objective third party to vent that anger toward instead of accidentally allowing it to infect the relationship you are trying to save, is immeasurable. If this forum fits the bill for you, then that's good. I still find that it's not as good as face-to-face interaction. But, maybe that's just me.

 

Anyway... just explaining my reasoning. you have to do what's best for you and I wish you good success in it! But, as they say in AA, keep coming back

[doman]

But perhaps if she wants to change your style, you can go shopping with her and let her pick out some clothes for you to wear?

 

just tell her you love her the way she is.

 

is your wife working?

 

I'm wondering if she can take just one course at school if it makes her feel better.

 

Also does she feel like she can spend some of the money you make? ask in she doesn't have to ask permission all the time.etc.

 

Hey Candy604. I did tell her I loved her just like she is, and she asked if I got that from the book I was reading! Sheesh! I told her, no, I got it from a friend in a group I was a part of!

 

I am going to do what you suggest about the shopping. We have done it before...but she is always sometimes picks the ugly things...and then she gets her feelings hurt. But I am going to go with a new attitude.

 

She does work, but only makes about $1200 a month. She has over 90 hours of college...but it is really random...she has a ways to go to get a degree. I am really trying to encourage her to get to an advisor so she can take a course in the spring. Her current job will even pay for it. We (I) made a desicion for her to stop going 10 years ago when she kept nearly failing the classes...and we didn't have much money to spare anyway. College was really hard on her...but I think she has matured a lot since then...and will do fine if she focuses on one class at a time.

 

But as far as the money, especially in recent years, since I returned to teaching and finally gave up being self employeed, our money situation has been improving...and she generally buys what ever she needs, with in reason, and for the most part, lots of things that she wants. I know she does feel money pressure. She used to blame me from making all of the financial decisions, but that is because I did, and we didn't have any. But, except for interest free plans, two cars and two house, we don't have any debt. WOW! I guess I should just say we don't have any bad, high interest rate or credit card debt. We have like 5 sources of income...I have three jobs, her job, and then a rent house. So, except for big things, I THINK she gets what she wants. We just put in new carpet in the house, new doors, 2nd air conditioner for the 2nd floor, new appliances, new garage doors, etc. In addition, I just painted the house over the summer...put up the crown molding she wanted in one room. I know she would like more money, but JEEE WIZZZZ...we have spent a BUNDLE!!! Thanks in part to Huricane Rita!

[doman]

Hello. One of the things that bothers me is that despite my wife affirming that she loves me...she rarely wants to have sex. BUT, she clearly wants to have sex...with other people. So, it seems it just me. At least, she does not instigate it.

 

Since learning of the extint of my wifes wandering, we have made love several time (3-4). And things have been good. But, there have been numerous times where I have approached her...and she turns me down.

 

About 4 years ago, I learned to not EXPECT sex. I learned to just WAIT...until she offered it. I learned this other things as well, which I have shared in this thread...like not to tell her what I think. It is best just let her figure things out on her own. I also learned she is the boss. I may TRY to assert my will...but ultimately, she needs to be happy.

 

Well, something backfired, because she went out for sex...with three other people, as I have shared in this thread.

 

Well, here we are back to square one. She claims that I wasn't here for her...that she was lonely, and that is why she went wandering. She knows that is crap...and says she is not trying to use that as an excuse...or blame me...but that is just how she was feeling at the time.

 

But more to the point...it was her that wasn't there. I have turned her down for sex maybe 3 times in 17 years. She turns me down 3 times a week. She ate too much, ate the wrong food. Too tired. Too sore (like from working out...not sex). etc., etc. Now, to be fair, most of the excuses are legitimate. Sometimes, we watch TV till I know she is too tired...and my hopes of making love go out the door.

 

Used to be, I was ok with it...but now, it seems like more of an insult. Like I am not desireable to her, really. She says she loves me. She seems to and says she enjoys making love. But it is so easy for her to turn me down. And then I feel bad 1) that I expected it 2) that she didn't have any problem sleeping with somebody else. I mean, how did she feel on those 8 days. Half the time when we do make love, she doesn't feel great...and I know she is just doing it because she feels she ought to. Even if she has a good attitude about it...it makes me feel guilty.

 

This is not something that I can even bring up with her. She is so depressed...she wishes she were dead. Which is making things even worse. I can't even share with her things that I get up set about because she is so close to a complete break down. Half the time I come home, I half expect her to have killed her self. Really. She wishes that it was her that was dead, not her friend. She doesn't see why she is left alive. So, I can't express ANY frustration at all around her.

 

Should she be medicated? Her counselor has made a recommendation for her to go see a psychiatrist to be evaluated to see if she shoudl be medicated for depression. But both of us are resistant to that idea. I mean, who wants a wife who is happy because they are on happy pills?

[engagedkitty]

Did our cats get in bed with them also like they like to do to us?

 

 

Um.. question: you mean your cats were in bed with you while you were ... doing stuff? Ew.

[NJRon]

I am thinking that when she is saying "You were here for me", she is not referring to sex... but rather, emotionally. Which would also explain the lack of sexual interest on her part, if she wasn't feeling emotionally intimate with you.

 

Therapy and Psychiatry often go hand in hand. The "happy pills" as you put it can be used in the short term to allow her to deal with the actual therapy. It is not a permanent solution to the problem... just an aid.

[caro33]

I'm so sorry, this sounds awful to deal with. My heart goes out to you, and I wish you all the luck in the world to get through this well.

 

However, your question below requires a different response:

 

Should she be medicated? Her counselor has made a recommendation for her to go see a psychiatrist to be evaluated to see if she shoudl be medicated for depression. But both of us are resistant to that idea. I mean, who wants a wife who is happy because they are on happy pills?

 

I'm sorry, but would you rather a wife who also commits suicide? That would be truly horrendous to deal with, particularly if it was you who discouraged some temporary use of medication to get her over the hump. Look I'm no doctor but I have been on anti-depressants to help with clinical depression, and have witnessed a couple of my friends recently do the same thing. It doesn't have to be a full time thing. In my case I had a reactive depression when I was 19, and was on drugs only for a couple of months. This was *all* that was required to get me past the hopeless feeling, curb the panic attacks, and thus equip me a bit better to manage the circumstances that triggered the whole thing. Same for my friends (each of which was coping with marriage breakdown after spouse cheated).

 

Once the depression has really affected the brain - where there's panic attacks, sleep deprivation or too much sleep, where they are not eating properly - there is a downward spiral and the chemicals in the brain are out of whack. Dealing with even the simplest things becomes seriously difficult, if not impossible. Anti-depressants can adjust the chemical balances to get them more in synch, where the person at least then has some of the necessary wherewithal to deal with reality. Once this is under control, you can then come off the drugs. It's not really like living with a Stepford Wife who is medicated into loving you, it's more like a jumpstart from a deep dark place from where there is no escape, into the real world, where at least there is some chance of improvement.

 

I'm sure many people have horror stories about medication and over-prescription etc, but we are now talking about someone who seems to be in a deep depression and is talking suicide. If the counsellor is suggesting a psychiatric approach i would take this very seriously.

[candy604]

if she thinks she wants to kill herself and stuff, she needs to see someone about it.I'm just wondering are you able to adopt a kid if you can't have children? That's another option.

[doman]

Thanks Caro33 for the reply. Makes a lot of sense. I guess something else playing in my mind is that the friend who killed herself had just started taking ADs. She was having a REAL adverse affect. She started them on Friday...she was dead by the next Friday. She was already having trouble sleeping and eating. Basically, by the time the next Friday had rolled around, she was completely sleep deprived, completely food deprived, and basically psychotic. There was a lot of talk between doctors, friends and family that she needed to be administed an anti-psychotic, but she had a history of seizures...and before any action was taken, she was left alone one morning and that was all it took.

 

I was there with her three days before she died, trying to make sure she checked into a hospital. At the time, I didn't know she had arranged for my wife to sleep with her husband...so I didn't understand why she was pushing me away telling me that I didn't deserve her friendship.

 

Anyway, point is, I saw her go from struggling to dead even with ADs...and the AD definitely didn't help...but rather seemed to have contributed to her spirally down. In fact, upon further research of ADs in general...and this one that she was point on, anxiety and a greater risk of suicide are listed as SIDE EFFECTS!!!

 

I guess I am just scared...of course I don't want her to kill herself.