Affair dragging on, no sexual contact- he's still married- H

[crookster_man]

I'm sorry; I don't wish to hurt you. However, you don't make sense. I can't really understand you. What do you want? What do you need? What is really going to happen?

[spiritualtraveler]

Okay, I told you how he would react before he did- I didn't read your post until just now. I knew he would behave in a jealous manner. Please trust me; he is manipulating you. I also think he is a bit unstable to be calling someone 6 times in one night. Not telling him about the other guy was a grown up thing to do, but he is not treating you with the same respect. And seriously,... behaving like he wouldn't marry you because you have slept with someone else... please. He is trying to make you not sleep with anyone else in the hope he leaves his wife- yuck. He's such a pathetic baby.

[Heatrae]

Yes, he did react predictably and truth be told, I wanted him to hurt a little bit and knew that not telling him of my vacation WOULD hurt him because he's a man and his mind would conjure all kinds of sexual, romantic things about me and someone else. (what can I say...I am human.) At any rate, I wanted him to be affected this is true, but when I returned, I wasn't prepared for how STRONGLY a reaction I got. And when I felt the wrath of it, I felt bad. Not guilty about being with someone else, it's that feeling that he didn't love me anymore and was THAT mad at me, even tho he and I agree and know that I must move on and be with other people. HE has said that to me, "...what am I supposed to do Heather, I'm f-in married. I know you're gonna go out with people, there's nothing i can do about it. Jesus Christ!"

 

I can hear the anger in his voice each time this comes up. BUt ANY information he has about the people I date NEVER comes from me. I have two friend here at work that are his frieds as well. HE asks them questions about me since I keep it all very private. It was comical when he blurted out, "YEAH I KNOW YOU'VE BEEN SEEING SOMEONE, HIS NAME IS DAVE, AND I DONT' CARE IF HES A F-IN DOCTOR. I KNOW HE HAS A HARLEY TOO AND YOU GUYS GO RIDING, I DON'T CARE WHAT HE HAS TO OFFER YOU. I have your heart and I always will. That's what matters." I said to him, "...It's not like Im gonna wait for you until your children are grown." He said, "yeah, you will (jokingly)"

I think he has a dream that a miracle will happen and he will be out of his marriage because of someone elses doing, not his. ANd I don't think for a second that he WOULDNT be with me if he wa single. That is insane for him to even imply....

[Heatrae]

Crook, to answer your question as honestly as I can ( and that is what we're all doing here)..."what do you want?".... I want to be with him. I want all the connecttion, love, intimacy, sharing, companionship that we had BEFORE I decided to walk away because I was trying to do the right thing. Part of me did think that by leaving my husband, B would leave his wife because now this MAJOR obstacle had been removed. But that is NOT what happened. I also thought that when I tried to walk away exactly one year ago after wife saw the kiss, that his feelings for me would go away and we'd move right on. That definitely didn't happen!!! It is far worse. I know HE is the problem, ive done everything I can. But I am tired of fighting it (I think). I want him in my life.

[crookster_man]

Then you want the whole package. The sleepless nights, the confusion and 1/2 of a man. You want to be the other woman and you accept what this means. Thats fine. That's what you want that's what you will get. Enjoy.

[Heatrae]

Today is the day that I promised myself I would truly walk away from my situation with B. One year ago today, his wife went to great lengths to follow us at lunch time and caught a kiss the two of us shared. I have spent the past year of my life fighting my natural instincts to be with him, forcing myself away from him so I can be noble and do the right thing. I have been miserable and sad.

I had to draw the line somewhere, so today is the date I chose. As of late he and I have been far apart because of me traveling, then he went camping last week with his family.

Since yesterday was my last day to hang on his every word, I sent a mushy text page. He didnt' respond to it. Went he arrived at work he immediately came to see me and asked if I had sent him something. We spent time talking about work-type things and all I wanted to do was throw my arms around him. Mind you, I spent the past 6 days traveling with a man I met, being intimate, etc....but yet I can return to my life here and still be consumed wtih B.

 

 

I have to walk away TODAY! This is my life and I am breaking my own spirit everyday wanting for B. I don't ever want there to come a time when he's non-attentive to me, so I would rather walk away with my dignity in tact and try to never look back.

 

I know you've all been here with me since last spring and I have not been the pillar of s trength; I thank you for your support. I don't believe this is truly over and as B puts it, "we will forever be connected HEather and I will always love you. Our feelings will last an eternity."

 

Under other circumstances that would be music to my ears. I need to find strength from somewhere. TOday is my cutoff day. I cannot talk to ANY of my friends about him ANYMORE. he is dead. I have to do this to save myself and the relationships with my friends.

[jubear]

Hi,

 

Im in the same boat. I divorced my hubby of 10 years for my married lover of 2 but am still waiting for him to divorce and he tells me all the same things as you have all heard, i stay for the kids, i love her but am not in love with her, i want you forever, we will be together etc. He bides for more time, and lately i am starting to ask myself that if he truly wanted me, he would leave and there would be no excuses. He is a very insucure person anyway, and sometimes i understand through my own experiences in my divorce and it was very hard to do it and change my life. But, im so messed up as i truly believe he loves me totally. He pursues me to the end of the earth and even when i have tried to end us, he wont let me and keeps coming back. He lies to me about sex with her, then i find out months later and it hurts like hell. I feel my life is in limbo yet he promises that he will leave and just wants an amicable divorce. Yet, 15 months have passed with the same excuses and the same lies and the same everything. All i want is him. He watches me suffer but says it will never happen again and im so confused by his love. He permanently askes me to marry him. Lately, he hasnt slept with me for 7 weeks now and im even more confused as he wanted sex all the time so can only assume he is having it with her yet he swears he is not and it is so hard not to believe him. Yet, he does everything for me and is so loving and talks of nothing but our future but says he is scared of the unknown. His wife has known about us for 18 months now and wont let him go and uses his kids against him etc, but he is still there and i have no way of knowing what is going on but want to believe he is leaving and the wheels are in motion. She always tells me a different story. I ask him constantly if he wants to go back to her but he says no, the only person he wants is me. Its hard. What do you all think?

[The Morrigan]

Hey - new to this thread, so sorry for barging in

 

I'm recently separated myself from my husband of 10+ years, he cheated once, 4 years ago. In spite of that, it took me this long to get the courage to decide when trying to make the marriage work wasn't getting anywhere, and the only thing stopping me from leaving was fear, and the habit I'd gotten into of letting him control some of my choices rather than rock the boat.

 

In spite of that, and that I have no "other" waiting in the wings, I was finally able to say "I'm burned out, I've had enough, and I'm moving on, because we are NOT doing each other any good." If their marriages are so bad they need someone else, these guys should be able to develop enough spine to do the same. They should have MORE incentive - and at least they know they have someone who loves and supports them behind and beside them all the way.

 

From the perspective of one who left... either these guys are too afraid to make the move and call it quits, they're comfortable with the way things are, or they're not as unhappy as they claim.

 

Let's take the two honest options, and assume they're being honest about how they feel, or at least, how they think they feel.

 

Whether it's fear of making a messy situation, or being fairly happy with the way things are... you're contributing to him staying married in a backhanded way. Yeah, I know, not exactly what you had planned, huh? But even with the most honest intentions - these guys aren't having to face the pain of a divorce to get the love, comfort, and esteem of having someone they feel a "click" with, so it's easier to put off. The downside of living with someone they're no longer in love with, or have a lot of conflicts with, is being buffered by having that supportive person there, waiting with loving arms. Especially if the wife has made it plain she knows and has no intention of doing anything anyway - what does he have to lose by staying where he is? He's avoiding the scenes and emotional trauma of divorce, he doesn't have the fear of being "found out," and he has the girl he loves. No matter if he's TRYING to be selfish or not - he is. You're giving 100% to the relationship, and he's going home to his wife.

 

As far as kids go? I strongly believe a very unhappy marriage ridden with fights and conflicts is no healthier, and often MORE traumatic, than their parents going separate ways and being able to show the kids their best, and not their worst. It scares kids when their parents are at odds, especially when the fighting escalates. No child should have to hide in their room or at a friend's house because mommy and daddy are screaming at each other, or worry about their parents being constantly short tempered because they can't get along.

 

Heatrae - don't beat yourself up, you're holding much firmer in the face of an indecisive guy than most do, give yourself a bit of credit for seeing what you need to do for you. And for repeatedly trying to follow through with it - you'll get there eventually.

 

You guys were willing to lay yourselves on the line for the men you love - and they should be willing to do the same for you. No, it's not easy, but I simply think you deserve better than stolen moments when you've committed yourselves and your hearts full-time.

[Heatrae]

I really appreciate all the responses that continue to show up on this topic. I can always use the help.

 

I guess I don't give myself enough credit at times. I just see myself as weak (even tho there's nothing sexual going on) and I'm never really happy. It's disgusting that my friend can tell simply by the way I speak that I've had interaction with "B". My entire world lights up and my affect is miraculously changed!

 

Yesterday here at work, we spent time talking. We talked about work things and "us" things. HE made the comment again that, "you had to go and f everything up by getting divorced." I was telling him it was apparent to me that he didnt WANT me. He told me I was crazy. He then brought up how I forced his hand by getting my divorce, and essentially made him chose since I told him I would not be the other woman. I agreed saying I don't want to be that person, but that I never asked him to do anything. Obviously he's not stupid and realized my actions put him in a decision-making predicament. THrough his inaction over this past year he has shown he doesn't want to 'BE" with me in a life together.

 

We had been hugging a little there at work and being romantic during our discussion. I said to him, "I wanna be with you." Then he says, "in what capacity." I think he wants me to say I will take you WITH your wife. It's like he WANTS me to say it. His phone rang and we never went down that road to clarify. Why won't he just say, "I want things to be the way they were, but I'm never leaving my wife." I mean, that is an honest statement, right?

 

He called a little later and he began fantasizing about what it would be like to come home to me and all the things he would do for me. Very "homey" kinds of things. The way our life together would be.

 

I am afraid of losing some of his respect if I start being with him again and work toward the way things were for us before. I am afraid that he will not be as "good" to me as he was then. He was VERY good to me. Very attentive, consistent and considerate. Since I have pulled away from him over this time, he hasn't been the same, but then again neither have I. I mean, he hasn't seen the REAL me in a year now. I have spent so much time altering my behavior and screening my emotions that I odn't know who I am when I'm dealing with him. I haven't been natural in a year.

 

I don't feel as though I've made any progress and moments like those with him I find myself giving in and expressing my missing for him and taking in his professions of love and dreams and compliments. I just can't get the wall up. Why can't HE walk away! Why can't HE leave me alone? I'm not calling him. GOd this isn't good!

[Heatrae]

Hi. Something just happened with B that I don't understand. He's been making comments when we're here at work that I won't let him be with me. that I won't let him come to my house, etc. Insinuating that I"m the one holding back the progress of a relationship (don't wanna be the other woman)

 

Anyway, yesterdat after seeing him at work for a few seconds here, a few compliments form him about how I looked, I text paged him while he was in a meeting. I told him I would like him to come over tonight to visit. To tell me what was happenign with this onet hing that he was upset about and to catch up.

 

He wouldn't be getting off work until about 12am or 1am. Anyway, I was surprised when he didn't call me thru out the night. I have been thinking he's just waiting for me to invite him over. He has made enough comments to that effect, so I wanted to throw it out there.

 

I waited until 10pm and he never called. I called his cell phone and he was exited to hear from me. We talked about this thing in another city he was helping on. Finally I asked him if he got my page. He said he did and that he was shocked when he read it. He said, "I was like, "Jesus...I can't come over tonight, I have to work. Besides, I thought we didn't want to do that anymore."

Just as I was going to respond, his phone beeped. He clicked over and never came back. I went to sleep. He called about 30 minutes later. During this call he was in his office. He was more relaxed. He was talking about how tired he was, how he wanted me to rub his back. I told him I wanted a hug. He kept talking in a baby voice about me needing to go to sleepy, etc. He complimented me again on how I looked today. It came up again about him coming over. He said, "I thought we didn't wanna be doing that anymore. We wouldn't keep our hands off each other. You know what would happen." I said, "well, I wasn't looking for a quickie on your way home, Jesus, B." He laughed and said he knew that.

 

I told him I wanted to be around him, without eyes so we could relax and catch up. I could hear it in his voice he was contemplating a visit. He wasn't trying to get off the phone. He was relaxed, etc. Very flirtatious. He talked about how cozy it would be with me there. Then I said in a very calm tone, "B, it's ok, you don't wanna visit with me." He said after a second pause....."yes I do." then there was another pause....."yes I do."

 

We continued talking for another 20 minutes about various things. Then it was time to hang up. We were very flirtatious and he was talking in a sweet, whispery voice. Then he told me he would talk to me tomorrow.

 

There was no visit.

 

I don't understand that. I put myself out there after all this time and he didn't want to come over. I mean, maybe he did, but still has this fear that his wife could still be following him or having someone follow him.

 

I just don't know what to make of it. I mean, he's forward about things, missing me- the moments in his office last monday touching, hugging and a few light kisses. I just don't get it.

 

What is this? What am I to make of this?

[juno]

Ohhh my god!!!!.. This postings have been very instructional. I mean I never thought there were in life these kinds of people. I thought those things happened just on movies.

 

But gosgh!!!!. This "B" man is a real master of decieving, he uses all the techniques of a real casanova, don juan, ladie's man, lets call him a real stud-master and has found the perfect victim. The tipical weak-spirited woman looking for "sensitive guys" and willing to accept whatever it takes to get that fixer roller-coaster of emotions that only a jerk-sick-but good with words man can produce. If my mother (75) listend to this, she probably would say: This woman is walking on jelly and is trying to hit the moon with a stone.

Where did you learn that is ok to live on promises and refuse to be a healthy human being?. what happened with you in the early stages of your life ms heather?

But dont worry there are lots of women like you all over the world that you can join. Just take a look at those teraphy groups of "Distructive-Relationships Addicts" and you'll see the consecuenses after some time. Cause this guy has already showed you what he's able to do. Remenber his outburst of anger?. Any woman (sane) knows this is a red flag.

 

If he were in love with you he should've felt happy to know that you went on a trip to have fun with a male friend. But he just felt treathen and so insecure that gave you the cold shoulder.

Anyway. No-one can really help you . Only you can. I wish God looks upon your jouney and delivers you safe back.

[Heatrae]

Looks like I just got a butt-whipping. I read every word, many times over. I don't like that I appear weak and jelly-like and that I am TYPICAL! This was a very sobering post to read I tell you. Like someone slapping me in the face. I needed it.

 

I need to digest it all. I have never thought that others saw me in such a light. I don't know WHY I am willing to accept so little when i have so much to offer.

 

Last week, he and I were alone and were intimate. I wasn't going to post that here out of embarrassment and after al the help you all have been trying to give me. I feel like a heroin addict that just fell off the wagon.

 

On the phone last night, talk of how much he loves me. How he's missed me, etc. Felt good. Felt wonderful in fact.

 

Then I come in to work this morning an find this post from Juno. A disgusting reminder of how pathetic I am and how I am settling for a man who knows just what to say. I have to step back today. THank you for your honest feedback. ANd I am so sorry for slipping and letting everyone down.

 

I don't really like myself right now. but it's monday so...i guess it's OK.

[The Morrigan]

Hey, any time you try to get out of an unhealthy relationship, you're more than likely going to backslide. Instead of berating yourself, try and step back and figure out what buttons of yours he pushed to get you there. Any two people in a relationship develop a feel for what makes the other react in certain ways - what makes the difference between the ones who are truly manipulative is when they use that knowledge with only their own interests at heart, and not yours.

 

When you're writing, you seem pretty capable of being more analytical about things, like him saying you screwed up by getting divorced. You've got a firm grasp, it seems, on his ideas of a relationship and yours being on completely different pages now. The role he wants you to fill isn't the kind of relationship you want; where he wants the affection, sex, and excitement from you without the goal of being partners in a true sense, you want just that, someone who will put you and the relationship first, and a real partnership. He wants you as his icing on the cake, you want the cake. As well you should! You deserve to be more than his "vacation" as opposed to his "home."

 

You're NOT impeding the progress of the relationship - from everything he's said, he doesn't want progress, he wants to keep everything he has and make no sacrifices for it. That's not progress, that's him trying to keep you where he wants you, in his comfort zone. And that's a guilt trip trying to make you feel bad for the reduction in intimacy.

 

If you can, imagine him holding a remote control in his hands as he's said and done various things - and pinpoint how you've reacted, because you know he's taken note of "what works" and what doesn't. Knowing what he's likely to do, and the way he expects you to react, is the first step to getting control back. When you're not sure what reaction will satisfy him that he's still got you hooked - the best reaction is NO reaction, basically "eh, whatever," even if you have to paste a bored look on your face and hit a pillow, scream, and cry afterwards. Many times ANY huge reaction is reassuring - just because he KNOWS he can still affect your emotions that strongly.

 

I'd start with writing down how he ended up getting you back intimately after you'd drawn a line - because make no mistake, odds are he was watching your reactions step by step until it seemed to be more YOUR idea. Hell, I'll plot the basics out from what you've said, and you can tell me if there's anything missing...

 

you tell him you don't want to be the other woman, and draw a line ---> he gets withdrawn, makes you miss his attention ---> starts making you wonder about your actions, making comments about hid ideal coming home to you ---> makes you question your judgement ---> you suggest getting together ---> he makes you feel guilty about the lack of intimacy ---> that doesn't work directly except to plant the seeds, so ---> he puts you in the position of pursuing HIM because you doubt his emotions ---> you end up intimate with him again ---> he gives the attentiveness and stroking to make you feel good about it, that you did the "right" thing.

 

Honey, whether it's all conscious or not, he's training you emotionally to be happier in a position very few women could BE happy with, that of the other woman. He's not concerned with you being completely happy, just less miserable so you'll FEEL happier with him than without.

[Heatrae]

You nailed it on the head. Very strange to see you write my situation out like that. The last phrase you wrote REALLY made some sense to me. IT's like I'm giving in because there isn't anyone serious in my life right now, I AM in love with him, and it feels good to be active with him, expressing our feelings, etc.

 

Do you think he KNOWS he's using me. I mean, you should hear him. He is amazing and sincere. There is this indescribable thing between us. I hate to overromaticize, but it DOES exist.

 

I keep telling myself it feels OK to have him back in my life and that as soon as I meet a wonderful person I will tell him there is nothing between us- you can' toffer me any sense of stability or committment, so I HAVE To move on.

 

That's just my plan. You should see him here at work....ALL SMILES in the hall. People asking me (they have no clue abotu us) "wow, "B" really is in a good mood. What's up with him?"

 

I am so much happier too. I almost hate it though.

[The Morrigan]

Manipulation is generally not completely conscious - it's more of a habit developed from other relationships, how to get someone to respond to a need, and a lot of times from what I've seen in some of my friends, they've even managed to convince themselves they "know" what's best for both parties, and aren't hurting anyone. He sees you happier, and it reinforces he's doing the "right" thing because short term, there's positive feedback from you.

 

The problem is as you've found, it's addictive. Contact with him and his reactions to you are controlling your emotional well being, to the point that his approval and the intimacy give you enough good feelings in the short term to table your misgivings, until the realization it's not enough starts leaking through the euphoria of having those good feelings and rapport back. And it's a cycle you'll repeat until you can break free of it for yourself.

 

Ask yourself this - are you really completely emotionally open to a new relationship while you're seeing him? You might be mentally open to it, but feelings are a different matter - while your emotions are tied up in him, they're not free to be given to anyone else.

 

Breaking off with him for the purpose of going into another relationship isn't going to help matters any - the new relationship would be a crutch to get over him, and would have to redevelop again after you had. There's also that until you get, not necessarily nirvana and pure happiness, but at least peace within yourself and the ability to clearly judge what you want and how you feel within yourself, you'll be ripe to get into another relationship where how you feel is determined by someone else to the point of control, not a balance of give and take. Of course, you're always going to be influenced by your partner in any relationship - but it should be even handed, where your feelings are just as important as his, and him doing something to make you feel badly is incentive not to repeat it.

[juno]

It doesnt matter if he manipulates consciously or not. The thing here is that he has total control over you. Your mood depends on how he is at any time. If he is happy then you feel ok, if he is angry or seems to be upset then all your emotions get unstable.

Just try to show him a little detachment and you'll see his instant reaction of anger.

 

Your plan sounds like you dont want to be alone. you said: "It's ok to have him in my life while I found another man" Im sorry but the more you wait to confront the pain the more the pain will last to vanish.

 

Just think clearly, you are having an affair with a married man and are disrespecting those children and her mother. How come you say you dont want to be the other woman if you ARE the other woman?.

 

I know it sounds rude but I know what im talking about here cause I was in the same situation. Once I went through all that suffocating pain then I finally got myself some respect and dignity.

 

But like any addict you are in the stage of deafness, you are to hit the floor before you stand up. Good Luck.

[The Morrigan]

I'd be interested to hear Juno's take as well, not sure if it will mesh with my thoughts or not.

 

My inclination would be to lay it out nicely and logically, and appeal to his sense, rather than coming accross like an emotional female. Something like

 

"hey, I know we just got back together, and you probably think things are better now, but I've been thinking a lot about this. I know from our track record I'm never going to be content with this situation, and you have different ideas about what you want from our relationship than I do. Right now, we're just getting into a cycle where we're getting a false sense of happiness for a brief period, until the conflicts from our differing desires surface again. When that comes up, we're both making ourselves and each other miserable, and I don't want to continue to do this to either you or myself anymore. You mean a lot to me, and I'd rather end this while I still care about you than have this eventually lead to where we hate each other for what we'll end up putting each other through. I know you love me, and you know I love you - that isn't the issue. I am sorry, but as long as we truly want different things from this relationship - I can't see any other resolution for us, and I'm not willing to go through the cycle of hurting each other and repairing things temporarily indefinitely. It doesn't do either of us credit to keep putting each other and ourselves through this kind of emotional pain, and shouldn't be a part of love. I hope you can understand and accept my decision, and respect that I'm sincerely trying to do what's best for us both, no matter how hard it may be."

 

Or something to that effect. Just my opinion, but it's much easier to argue against something based on emotion than something clearly laid out where it's obviously been carefully thought through, and where there's no malice or intent to hurt.

 

No matter how you do it - it won't be easy. Best of luck, and keep us posted!

[juno]

I'll tell about my story later.

 

You said "I want out with grace and tact" This talks about your low self-steem. (this is how he got you in the first place) He's been using you to get a cocktail of emotions and sex, the only tact you need is to protect and clam up before your dignity gets seriously damanged.

There's a phrase that players use. "Get her feelings first and the body will follow" I suppect you are a very attractive woman but insecure at some point.

 

I mean at this point everybody is going to get hurt, there's no way out of love without pain.

 

But you should protect yourself by not letting him get close after the break up. Simply tell him you want to end the ralationship cause it's not good for you and go away, run like there is no tomorrow. I dont think talking to him to end the relationship is a good idea. The thing is that B is obviously better with words than you are, no offense. You are very capable of expressing yourself, but you have deeper feelings for him than he has for you. He knows what you want, exacly what to say and what buttons to push. it can only be humiliating for you.

 

He has the upper hand and can easily convince you to change your mind hands down.

 

Remember when he said: "That guy can have your body but I have your heart"? This phrase comes from someone who is very sure of what he has and doesnt include any feelings at all. A man who is in love would never say something like that.

 

Working together makes it very difficult to handle. I recomend to change your schedule as much as possible to avoid him. The less you see him the fast is going to end. And for God's sake "DONT ACCEPT TO BE HIS FRIEND" this is a big mistake and a dangerous trap. You may think that time will make him change and if you could stay close he'll look for you. This will only prolong your pain.

 

The truth is all my words will vanish like smoke in the air, like the thousands or words I listened and forgot immediately once I picked up the phone to "talk about it".

[Heatrae]

Well Juno, both B and I are very expressive. I have never felt as though his was more exacting with his words than I. I suppose I am splitting hairs as I say things like that; the bottom line is he's married. He told a cowroker of ours at a party we were at on Friday after this person told him, "You need to un-f*ck yourself and get to Heather. You two should be together. You two are amazing together and you need to make it happen." This person had been watching us interact over the past two years, and knows I'm single now. This coworker later told me that when he said this to B, B replied saying, "I'm totally in love with her. I just don't know how to do it (end my marriage.)" This coworker who has no confirmed knowledge of us EVER being together told me about this conversation as we were leaving the party. He said, "I talked to him, he's gonna do it." I said 'he's never going to leave her...' he said, "well, if you believe that, then kick him to the curb."

 

All this means nothing in your eyes I'm certain and my insecurity is most frustrating and ugly to you, I'm sure. You nailed it, I am quite attractive (as is he) but I am VERY insecure when it comes to men. ALways have been. I have this ongoing hope that something miraculous will occur.

 

I have this feeling that as I remain active with him, he will begin to let me down in little ways that didn't matter back when I too was married (as I was limited in time available as well.) I think a few let downs will take its toll on me and give me the ANGER I need to draw the line and truly stand behind it. I have always said, "if he would just tell me he no nlonger loves me and doesn't wanna be with me, I could walk away." It would be a blatent pride thing for me if that were to occur. That has NEVER happened and it never will. I never feel humiliated with him. If he didn't love me and I was chasing him around like a puppy dog I would. I don't chase him. 90% of the time, I sit back and he does all the work. I don't call, I don't initiate things, I was not the one to say "I love you" and I'm not the one oozing all over the other person. That is all his doing! It feels very EVEN KEEL. I am still feeling though, that this renewed togetherness we are sharing will ignite a fire under his butt and REMIND him how wonderful we are and realize that is IS the real deal (although he has stated MANY times that I am THE ONE. He says "she's all I've ever known. How do I know...I feel like I owe it to her. I was in love with her at one time the way I am with you now....how do I know?") HE's all over the place.

 

I am the one who is all over the place. I can assure that consciously I am not putting my life on hold for him, I have no guarantees from him or about him so I am plugging along.

[juno]

I undestand what you are going through. Something good should occur out of this experience. Please keep me posted.

[Heatrae]

I am learning that being involved with B again sexually and emotionally is inhibiting me from opening up to others. I guess I am learning the hard way. You all told me that would happen. The other side of that is he is once again back to, "you give me everything I need and could ever want. Youcould absolutely give me everything the wife gives me, but she could never bring to my life what you do. I need to do something. I can't eat I can't sleep."

When I hear these things I feel wonderful. It's Christmas Eve and I am sick to my stomach. We are not exchanging gifts and he worked last night and didnt' call me. I don't know if he intends to call tonight or tomorrow sometime, but I am sick nonetheless. This is not how I imagined it would be. He is convinced he will never fall back in love with his wife, and he's convinced I am everthing he wants and needs. He is alarmed with me being out here single and free to be with him and he is very able to articulate his need to do something about his marriage and leave. Those comments give me hope. But the pain I am feeling today is my own fault. If I hadn't allowed us to get back together and being making love again, I would expect nothing today, tomorrow, etc. If he doesn't acknowledge Christmas at all, I don't know how I will react. He already knows how unhappy I am about us not exchanging gifts. He already expressed to me his concern about me being alone for the holiday and how he is wanting to be with me and will be thinking about me as he goes through his day.

We all know that simply isn't enough.

I have brought this pain on myself. Maybe it is what needed to happen in order for me to get mad, get disgusted and see for myself that I can't be with him while I wait for a great single man to come along.

I am going on dates now with men and feeling bad about it. I am not opening up and I am not anxious to see nor hear from them.

I came to work today after he had worked the swing shift last night and found no xmas card or anything. He didn't call last night while he was alone at work and I am beside myself. I can' t even function. I want to go home.

 

The past 4 weeks he's been thinking out loud to me about how his life at home has not improved, nor has he any hopes of falling back in love with her. He said he needs to do something and find a way to deal with the red tape. What the hell am I supposed to do to deal with all of this?

 

I had the conversation with him pointing out that he and I are in the same boat: IF he stays with his wife, he will be miserable for the duration of that time without the opportunity to experience a full loe, a full relationship. That pain will last for years and years as he reamains with her. Versus a fraction of the time it would take to make the move and deal with the instability stage of a divorce. That pain would be shorter lived WITH the opportunity for a full, loving relationship with me. I pointed out the same in my situation: if I stay with him I will never be happy, I will always be miserable for as long as I stay with him, eternally. BUT, if I walk away the pain will last a fraction of that time with the hopes and opportunity for a real love, a real relationship with another person. He totally saw the correlation.

 

I am sick, I am sick. I am not getting better in this situation an I am making myself so sad. Do you have any new thoughts or ideas about this situation? Or am I simply a fool?

[Mar]

Alright, Heatrae, I'm going to lay this out for you in a rather blunt manner so you can see what I saw in reading through all of this. It may make you a bit stronger in being able to finally say "NO!" to this man when he's constantly wavering back and forth and holding you on the tightest of emotional leashes as he's been doing. Bear with me, this may be blunt....

 

He's married and unhappy and I deserve more than what he can offer me.

That night she tried to throw him out and he refused saying he wasn't going anywhere

My man loves me, but doesn't have the strrength or the drive to leave her.

It was OK when we were both married, but now that I have 100% to offer him, I expect the same!

I mean..it's obvious to me he won't leave her no matter how much he loves me. She caught him at my house for Christ's sake, told him to get the hell out and he refused. He says he doesn't want the split to be HIS fault.

I also agree that he doesn't want the MESS of a divorce. He will be OK to live with one woman and be in love with another for the rest of his life because he doesn't want to make the effort to get happy and go through the drama, etc.

To this day, he still sends me love song videos, sexually flirts, but doesn't go WAY out of his way. I am not getting phone calls unless I instigate it.

You are a dishonest woman if you continue to see this other man and live the lie you are by staying married to your husband. He deserves better.

This one I found interesting, as it was advice to another woman who was cheating on her husband. Doesn't B's wife deserve the same?

I have slipped a little myself expressing some of my feelings as well, but I keep in mind that I haven't crossed the LINE at this point.

Yes, you have.

But I suppose the bottom line is, HE WILL NEVER LEAVE! The wife gave him 2 separate chances to leave and he did NOTHING. He even acknowledges he didn't take those opportunities.

I think he's punishing me without even conversating with me first. This is what he does

He said it there: he is willing to risk having an affair (the way it was) to make himself happy, but he's not willing to leave his wife.

HE has said that to me, "...what am I supposed to do Heather, I'm f-in married. I know you're gonna go out with people, there's nothing i can do about it. Jesus Christ!"

Hmm....interesting.....anger, yet he's STILL not willing to do anything about it....

I think he has a dream that a miracle will happen and he will be out of his marriage because of someone elses doing, not his. ANd I don't think for a second that he WOULDNT be with me if he wa single. That is insane for him to even imply....

Why? He expects you to be right there for him whenever else he needs you, doesn't he......?

Part of me did think that by leaving my husband, B would leave his wife because now this MAJOR obstacle had been removed. But that is NOT what happened.

This is my life and I am breaking my own spirit everyday wanting for B. I don't ever want there to come a time when he's non-attentive to me, so I would rather walk away with my dignity in tact and try to never look back.

ATTA GIRL, now you're getting it!!!!

I guess I don't give myself enough credit at times.

No, you DON'T! You're stronger than that.

HE made the comment again that, "you had to go and f everything up by getting divorced."

WHAT???????

Obviously he's not stupid and realized my actions put him in a decision-making predicament. THrough his inaction over this past year he has shown he doesn't want to 'BE" with me in a life together.

Why won't he just say, "I want things to be the way they were, but I'm never leaving my wife." I mean, that is an honest statement, right?

Yes, it is.

I am afraid that he will not be as "good" to me as he was then. He was VERY good to me. Very attentive, consistent and considerate.

UNTIL he had to go home, back to his wife.

how I am settling for a man who knows just what to say.

Do you think he KNOWS he's using me.

YES!! Of course he does! No sane man can POSSIBLY justify such a long, odd affair and not realize that he's using you!

It doesnt matter if he manipulates consciously or not. The thing here is that he has total control over you. Your mood depends on how he is at any time. If he is happy then you feel ok, if he is angry or seems to be upset then all your emotions get unstable.

He's right on that one. You're letting yourself be used.

the bottom line is he's married.

B replied saying, "I'm totally in love with her. I just don't know how to do it (end my marriage.)"

Er.....yes, he does, he's just stated several times that he chooses NOT to end it. He's comfy right where he is.

I have brought this pain on myself. Maybe it is what needed to happen in order for me to get mad, get disgusted and see for myself that I can't be with him while I wait for a great single man to come along.

 

Alright......there it all is, in black and white. Now how many times did he state he wouldn't leave his wife? Several. Heatrae, he's going to remain like this for as long as you allow him to, and I highly doubt he's 1/2 as upset by the situation as he lets on. If he was TRULY that unhappy with "the wife" he would have grown the......er.....necessary parts to finally LEAVE her. All his talking about how much he loves you and wants to be with you is just that: talk. No action whatsoever required on his part, because you're ALLOWING him to do this, while you're getting torn up. How is this POSSIBLY a healthy relationship? I know you realize it's not, and you've made it potentially worse by being intimate with him again. Re-read your entire post again. He is never going to leave his wife while you enable him to stay with her! After all, why should he? He's got the best of both worlds right now, and has since whenever this whole sordid thing started. You were strong for a bit and cut things off, then when he snapped his fingers and said the right words (and he's a master at saying the right things, isn't he....but that's easy to do....) you came running back to him.

 

The harsh truth is that he's never going to change this situation. If you want a change, you have to force his hand. Unfortunately, the problem is that you work with him. If there's no chance of finding another job, then make the best of the no contact rule, but this will require amazing amounts of strength from you. Let him know that you're fed up with this, that you can't live your life as yours, and that the treatment he's expecting you to receive gratefully (i.e. the "lovey, mushy" things that he knows have you right where he wants you, compliant and uncomplaining about his married status) are no longer acceptable, and, until he can change that status, you're not willing to play second fiddle to his wife. If he must speak to you about business matters, make sure he understands that they are to be business only. No text messaging, no emails, no calls about anything other than business until he can finally resolve his situation. If he flat-out states that he WON'T change it, yet again, then you have your answer. All his talk of how much he loves you and that you're his angel are pure garbage and mean NOTHING, because he can't take that one, VERY crucial step in showing you how much you mean to him. Right now, you're a diversion, a plaything....do you really want to remain in this pain and doubt and have your feelings of self-respect and dignity trampled on this way for another indefinite amount of time? I sincerely hope not.

 

Mar

[Heatrae]

Wow, that was really something! But isn't there something to be said for the fact that he WANTS to leave, says he can't figure out how to do it? Or is that just me giving him too much credit?

 

It's as though since we've gotten back together this fall, he's more intent on leaving her. It's the holidays and they're right in the middle of a $12,000.00 kitchen renovation that was contracted before he and I got back together. I was not involving myself with him at the time they started the kitchen.

 

I don't see him doing anything until after the first of the year. It's like I've given myself or HIM until March to do something about this situation.

 

One of my friends said I should tell him that I have a time frame in my head, that i can't go on like this forever. She seems to think that someone needs to light a fire under his butt. I am afraid of issuing an ultimatum as I promised when he and I started I would NEVER ask him to leave his wife.

I don't know if that's exactly how I would put it. But couldn't I put it like "I can't go on like this forever and I want you to decide once and for all if you want a life with me. We either need to make some forward progress together toward being together or we need to stop loving one another."

 

What do you think about this approach? I see myself waiting for him to bring up the topic again of wanting to leave and me being everything he could ever want and then spring that on him?????

[avman]

Heatrae,

 

I'm going to dump some disturbing news on you. In all the situations I have seen, and my friends who are counselers have seen, an affair virtually NEVER leads to a stable relationship between the affairees. I know you will say "But this one is different". Unfortunately everyone says that.

 

The relationship is founded on deception and stealth. The two people never really develop a "normal" relationship because of it.

 

You are giving him way too much credit in hopes that the relationship is not doomed. But it is. Be good to yourself and find a partner than can give themselves to you 100%

[Mar]

Oh really: "he doesn't know how to do it"? Of COURSE he knows how....you did, and it wasn't especially difficult. A lawyer takes care of most of it, does he/she not? He's making excuses yet AGAIN. That whole whiny "I want to, but don't know HOW" is yet another reason for him to sit on his butt and do nothing. After all, as I and everyone else has stated, he's making NO efforts to move on. That $12,000 renovation? Would YOU undertake spending that kind of money if you had intentions of leaving and had to save money? No, of course not.

 

I hate to tell you, but you've lost all perspective of what this relationship really is, for all the questions you've asked about the rights and wrongs of it. I'm glad you realize there may be something wrong, but you're asking the same questions over and over, and resolving nothing, because you're too afraid of losing him. WHY?? He's giving you nothing. Sure, he says he loves you. That's easy.

 

"Heatrae, I love you, I miss you, you make every day worth waking up for me, and I can't wait to see what you've written again so I can just see your NAME on here, and feel that little part of you to carry me through my day." See what I mean? I can say it......doesn't mean it MEANS anything, it's just words. (I'm sorry to be so blunt, that's just the way I write.) Which is essentially the same thing he's doing. For all the things he's done, the songs, the videos, the mushy txt messages, etc.....HE'S STILL WITH HIS WIFE. He went away on vacation with her.....when was the last time he took YOU away for a weekend? Oh yeah, he can't....he's married.

 

He has no intention of leaving her, he said that flat-out. How much more of a rejection do you need? Anything he says to the contrary is merely to keep your hopes up and keep you strung along so he can have his fling on the side when things with the wife get boring. As a matter of fact, I'd be willing to bet that he's feeding her the same lines he is you, in that he wants his marriage to WORK, and wants to love her and work on their problems together, etc., so she's happy as well.

 

I honestly don't understand why you're putting yourself through this emotional indignity when there are SO many wonderful, SINGLE, caring, HONEST men out there who WON'T leave you at the end of the night after a few borrowed hours to go back to their nice comfy home and their wife in bed. I know the feelings for you are intense, but they can be for someone else as well, if you just LET it. Yes, it's hard-we all know how hard it is. But the results are so worth the rewards! You've had dates, so you know that won't be a problem. But you're insistent upon leaving yourself in this truly no-win situation. How many more months or years are you going to listen to him sweet-talk you and lie to you in the same breath with promises of how much he wants to be with you? He doesn't, plain and simple. If he really felt as strongly about it as he proclaims, he would have done something. Any excuse to the contrary is just that: an excuse. So it's up to you: are you going to keep on putting your life on hold for a married man and bury your head in the sand as to the reality of his supposed feelings for you, or are you going to finally DO something about it and save some respect for yourself and move on? The choice is yours.....talking about it is good, and I know how much confusion you're feeling, but you know how wrong this situation is, and how unhealthy. If you choose to stay in it, that's your choice....but it's a bad one for you.

 

Mar