Heatrae

To you all who have been here for me during this very difficult time, THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart. I MUST share this with you today and let you know how I have changed. On June 8th, I felt as though B had hit me with a sledgehammer. First, he was planning a Vegas trip for mud-June and wanted me to go along with he and his buddy. He was becoming quite creative in his finagling, and I was willing to go along. HE butchered the invitation to me (although he had his friend test the waters with me first by secretly telling me the plan) and I felt a little strange. But of course, I thought, "well, if I go, he will see how wonderful it is to be with ME out in the world and this will be the event that pushed him over the edge. I already know how miserable he is." Well, He was trying to find a way to get me on the same flight, and all the other arrangements. On the 8th, he suggested I take a different flight and that I get my own room just to be SAFE. I told him I wasn't comfortable with that. HE agreed that he might have a very hard time relaxing while on the trip but that he so badly wanted me to be there. We had talked so many times about a trip like this and had taken them separately- we were very excited. Anyway, he said that Vegas was only 4 short hours away and there's a chance that the wife would call my office to see if I came to work and would find I hadn't. She would then drive to Vegas and discover everything. I know these were very real concerns, but the more I heard him talk about 'not being able to relax' I realized I could not go. So, later that day I approached him and told him I wouldn't be going. He was crushed. I explained to him that the uncomfortability he would feel is the same idea behind why we cannot ride motorcycles together. Previously he had stated he never wanted to be looking over his shoulder when he was spending time with me, but was very angry when I refused to ride bikes with him. (dumb) Anyway, I tried to point out the connection and he refuted it. His solution to us not traveling to Vegas at this time was for him to take more trips throughout the year so that the wife would be less suspicious and we COULD travel later. Then I simply said, "you're never leaving her are you?" He became a bit irritated and didn't' wanna discuss it. He said, "I cannot answer that. That's impossible for me to answer. I know how I feel and I know what I want but I can't do this to my kids. I think about this all the time, H, I am scared out of my mind." He then went into quoting Dr. Phil saying that he teaches if you cannot make a decision, do NOTHING at all. (good advice) and then went a little deeper. He began to say how messed up he is. He doesn't know what's wrong with him…he's never happy. I am the only thing that has made him happy but that he has real problems. He said, "Even with as much as I love you, and I do…I can't tell you that if IT was put in my face that I could turn it down." I was stunned. It was an honest statement, and I know he was amazed it was coming out of his mouth, but it was out there. I didn't have a response. Then to illustrate how messed up he is he said, "I am so up…you have no idea. H, as I am driving around town, girls talk to me in my truck and tell me to pull over. I pull over. I PULL OVER! WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH ME? I am 37 years old…I have NO BUSINESS talking to these girls. I don't think they realize how old I am, but I have no business doing that. What the hell is wrong with me? I have serious problems!!!" I told him I didn't think he liked himself very much. He agreed and said, "I am never happy. I am always looking for something better: the better truck, the better rims, the better house, the better wife, and even the better girlfriend on the side." He said this with a matter of fact, yet totally disgusted look on his face. I was stunned. He was exposing himself to the nth degree and I was speechless. Then he said, "I am a !!" I told him he doesn't like himself very much and that I misjudged him. I thought this whole time he wanted to live an honest honorable life, that's why I had preached it for so long. Not that I thought I was better than him that I was no longer married to someone I wasn't in love with, but that that's what I believed. He just said, "if I was honorable, when I screwed around on her while I was in the Corp, I would have called her from Japan and told her then I couldn't marry her, but I didn't. I am not honorable." I quietly said that I guess we value different things in a relationship: I value honesty, commitment, and shared values and that he values routine. He sat quietly. I told him, "I never wanted to stop loving you. I never wanted to NOT be in love with you." He said, "you don't have to, H. I am never going to stop loving you. I will love you every day I wake up and I will have to live with this for the rest of my life. I will always love you the way I love you today. I have never stopped. I wouldn't change anything." I said, "well, I never wanted to NOT be in love with you, but today is the last day I will love you. I can't love you anymore after today." I was simply beside myself. I then told him I have to move on with my life and I can't have him making fun of the men in my life, nor making fun of my life in general. He agreed. I told him we are not the same- I thought we were the same, but we are not. We cried, but I was so stunned at his disclosure that we just got up and walked out of the room and never said goodbye. I saw him briefly the next day for about two seconds as I handed him some papers, but he couldn't look me in the face, but just said 'thank you' very quietly as I gave him the papers. I have reached THE POINT. What person could be told what he told me and respond any other way than to leave the relationship for good. I think he hit his bottom too. He knew he was this person and doesn't wanna be that person with me, but it just started coming out of his mouth and he ran with it. HE realized that once he put it out there, I would never look at him the same way again. He NEEDS me to not speak to him anymore. I think he was exhausted keeping this all inside and put it all out on the table. So, now I have something to walk away from. He will never experience this life-lesson (as my cousin puts it) unless he experiences this LOSS. I HAVE to walk away. He NEEDS me to walk away. No man in his right mind would ever tell a woman what he told me unless he wanted everything out in the open. I need to respond accordingly. Then and only then will he experience loss. He and the wife may split at some point, and he will have a LOT of work to do on himself…but I am not going to help him through this. I have hit my bottom. I think I will win either way. I walk away now based on what he said and my realization that living in sync with what's in his heart ISN'T that important to him and I win…I may meet some wonderful person AND he sees a strong woman that he has lost. And, if he and the wife ever split, he will have exposed himself to one person in his life and will have experienced losing this person [me] he will have to transform himself into a different person through this all. Then present himself to me at some later time in our lives. If all can be done accordingly, we would be a very strong couple, but not unless he experiences this. He has asked so many times, "why has God put you in my life at this time. Why, and why do I love you the way I do…I want you in my life forever, but I am already married. Why would God do this to me." My cousin's response to this is: "You have a karmic lesson to learn…there is something wrong with you. You hadn't truly loved someone until now and you must put everything on the line. You met your match and now you must grow. God put you two together for you to learn to love completely and now you have to work for that. Only through loss of this love (hence the disclosure) will you grow and change." Interesting. Well, I am sad nonetheless, but I feel good. I know this may all seem a little mushy, but it makes sense to me. He is expecting me to walk away and that is exactly what I will do. I am OK. I only cried last night at the end of 'Love Actually', but other than that, I have been OK. Any thought you may have will be helpful as I transition into the next phase. I want to be strong…I want to be successful this time. Thank you ALL!!!!!

Morrigan, I know you have been here with me this whole time. It's embarrassing as hell! What I can tell you is that I have always believed in this man. He is very intense with his love for me and I for him. I have tried, as you know, to break away completely with hopes of being friendly at work sometime in the future, but we end up gravitating toward each other and the cycle starts- invarying degrees, etc. He has taken steps toward addressing the major issues in his marriage and this is afirst for him. He is very proud about that. However, no, he hasn't moved out, nor filed any papers. So, nothing concret other than to tell me he is doing it, you are correct. I guess now I just feel numb because I spen so much time thinking about WHY he would shut down like this. OTher than this is WHAT he does to people in his life and then he gets back on track. Can you recommend any books or anything that can help me move forward. Hell, I was reading, "Women Who THink Too Much" and felt better for a day, but then I was right back to my old perseverating behavior!!! I do need help. Hell, this is my big chance to really break away and get 'clean'. He's the one who had the tantrum over nothing, not me. I am GOLDEN and his behavior was so crazy I have a great excuse to not be speaking to him. He's staying away for whatever reasons, but maybe this is a great excuse for me to move on. (as if I needed one) For whatever reason, I'm always so concerned about "looking good" being the one who handled theirself with class. In this case, I think it's ideal: he had a tantrum, admitted why he had the tantrum because he's jealous an I don't tell him there is no bf, and then he went off again. So...I did nothing and he looks like an ass. He's not speaking to me and I refuse to chase him. Probably something he's not used to at home. So, I need to capiltalize on this opportunity and use this as my catalyst to really move on!!!! I CAN DO IT!!!!!!!! I am sorry if you have all felt I dont' listen. I guess I haven't acted as though I was listening (hell, Im still here). But I am trying. Just a little further. Please stay with me people. This is my LAST CHANCE. If youremember, i always HATED having a convo with him about not seeing each other. Well, guess what, he's now off pouting somewhere over jealousy and not speaking to me, so I don't HAVE to have that convo. He's acting passive aggressive and I can turn this into a positive for me, wouldn't you say?????

Thanks Rosie. What I hear you saying is that he's purely acting out of jealousy and only concerned with his jealousy not me thinking poorly of him because of how he's behaving. He's acting strangely because he felt me pull away and he DID NOT LIKE IT!!! Please tell me that's what you're saying. I spend so much time analyzing and I become less and less objective!!! God I have ISSUES! Thanks for your feedback.

Thanks! I wish I had something more positive to report, but something has taken a dramatic shift and I can't figure out what is happening: We worked together on a project for two days- it was nice. During that time he continued to talk about feeling so overwhelmed. His wife said to him, "you'd better make a f-ing decision" and kicked it right back on her and said the same thing. I tried to explain how a timeline would be a good thing for us to work within for our own sanity's sake and he implored he could not commit to one because he can't say that on THIS day at THIS time I'm going to do it. This convo made him mad and the day didn't finish well. The next day there was tension obviously. I brought up how he talked to me, etc. then we got on the topic of him feeling backed into a corner. He said if he feels so backed in, he will shut down. I simply told him I didn't deserve to be talked to the way he had the day prior. He said, "Well, I can't give you a day, so I"m just going to say I"m staying where I'm at. I"m just going to say that." I looked stunned. Then he leaned toward me and said, "You KNOW I'm lying, I am doing it, I just can't give you a date." That day he went to my house, dug this trench for me, called a few times, etc. All the while, all I could think about was his comment about staying where he's at- even if he did recant it. I figured it was my big chance to break free and it would be on HIM! He called that Friday and was very nice. Then unexpectedly he showed up at my house May first. I was gross from the gym. I was happy to see him, surprised...he's never come over unannounced. We visited and he look at some things arounf my house that need fixing. I wasn't hanging on him and there was no sex- it didn't even occur to me because of what he said Thursday and I was trying to clowly break away. I did however, place a thank you card with a gift cert at his desk for diggin the trench for me, but he hadn't opened it yet until that afternoon. I didn't take his call on Sunday evening and thenI saw him at work briefly Monday. He was a bit quiet. He called that night to thank me for the card and cert., and then was just quiet so I politely said, "well, hey, I will let ya go..." He got very upset that I was hanging up and proceeded to ask me how my concert went on Sat (the say he stopped by. He had badgered me as to who was taking me to the Seal concert.) He had asked, 'who ya going with???' over and over and never let me answer. He rattled off these names of people he KNEW I wasn't going with and never let me respond. he was all over the place. So, on the phone he asked how the concert was and wouldn't let me off the phone. He didn't like me hanging up first I guess. The next day was Tuesday day. He brought a document into me and started very sarcastically, "who's this for, your bf, your bf??!! WHo's yer bf? I know you have one!" (not yeling but talking quickly and sarcastically, not giving me a chance to respond.) I was stunned. I sat there saying, "why are you acting like this? Where is this coming from? " Bottom line is, he went off about this mystery bf and let his imagination run wild saying this guy spent the night, etc..I told him if he wanted to know anything, to simply ask me. He yelled he doesnt' want to know, so he does it THIS way. HE siad he has no right to ask me anything about my life, etc. He left my office and returned 5 minutes later to tell me how he deduced I had a bf. Because when he came to my house, we didn't make love. That I was different and that a while back I had told him if I was ever with another man, I would not see him. (OK, at least he wa listening.) But there was no other man, in fact, I went to the concert with a gf who he assumed I wasn't going with. The man never even gave me achance to answer even if I wanted to. So, a week passes and he never called to apologize. I couldn't understand why he wouldn't call to fix this. Take responsibility for his sarcastic ranting. NOTHING! Then he came to work the following monday and visited in everyone's office except mine. He totally ignored me. What had I done???? I did nothing. I had even offered to answer any question he may have, but he didn't want to knwo....so why am I being punished?????? Then next day (last Tuesday) I bumpued into him in the parking lot. He said calmly, "what, you don't wanna be my friend any more- you don't talk to me???" I spun it a little differently and asked him the same thing saying I thought his behavior last week must have been a joke. He assured me it wasn't and that he was very serious. He said that he doesn't know what's going on in my life and doesn't think he has a right to ask so he does it HIS way and hopes I will give him the correct info. When I don't offer [that there's no bf] he is only left to assume the worst. I asked WHYon earth he would assume the worst of me and he said that's how he see's people. We talked for a few minutes, I htought the convo waS going fairly well, and then from out of the blue he sarcastically attacked me about riding motorcycles with other men. Budies of ours but that if he got a bike, I wouldn't ride with him. He thinks that's BS and really went off. Here he was calming down and then BLAM! He brings up this other issue about me not thinking it was OK to ride with him because we're not together. He thinks since I ride with other friends of ours, I should ride with him too. But he has always said he doesn't wanna be looking over his shoulder when he's out with me so we agreed we wouldn't go on dates until he was free. People...he blew up and left the lot. I was shocked. I followed him and told him, "You've lost your mind. I don't dsereve to be treated this way..." The whole thing lasted about 6 minutes. Before I left that day, i shot him an email saying I "didnt' deserve this treatment, I don't know where this is coming from or WHY he's hell-bent on making me out to be a bad person. If you're trying to cut me out of your life, please just say something...dont' do what my family does to me, etc. If you can understand anything I"m saying here, gie me a call, or lets set some time aside to talk and get things back on track. I think we just need to be honest and real- make things simple. I"ll leave the ball inm your court since you still seem very mad and upset." He wrote back, "Ill get with you." NOTHING. Tomorrow is another 7 days. What is he DOING???????????? I mean, what on earth did I do? Hell, I WISH there was a bf, at least this behavior would be warranted. I have been hurting sooo very much these two weeks and for nothing. I was not intending on getting back with him, but to bring his behavior to light, and to explain how i am going to move on. BUt this is so out of characted for him to treat ME this way. Is he having a melt down? Someone, please tell me what's going on here? Thanks so much...this has been a very long two weeks!!!!

Thank you for your post. I know that for an intelligent woman, I am awfully stupid about this situation. It has gone on way too long and I have prayed for him to just tell me he's not interested, or no longer loves me. For the mere fact that I am so in love with him and do not hav the strength to stay away. We are not sexually active right now, but there are conversations. Conversations about what's goin gon at his house, me telling him how he's hurting his wife by allowing her to 'try' different things only to aggravate him and start fights. I told him if he ever loved her he would stop this insanity and let her go, spare her the embarrassment of 'trying' to fix things when he has stated repeartedly there is NOTHING she can do. It's not HER who needs to do anything. With me is able to articulate this, but he simply cannot say those words to her. He's walking around in a fog...a dark, crappy fog. He said he's spiralling out of control and has neevr been so miserable in his life. I told him what needs to happen and if he doesn't love HER enough to spare her this embarrassment of trying, then to love ME enough to walk away from me, help me be strong too, or do what he needs to do to take charge of his life. I have listened to all of you over this year and HAVE used your advice. Sticking to it is another thing entirely. At this point of my situation, I have had no sexual cotact with him. I do not call him, I do not email ot text him. When he has seen me at work, I don't light up ' at the sight of him and I don't return 'I love you's' when he says them to me. I told him I will not see him (dates, meetings outside of work, etc) while he's in this process with his wife. Doing things this way protects me so I dont' continue to be that close, but also allow shim space to take care of things the way he see's fit. I am not going to micromanage his divorce or separation. That's not my job. People at work are very concerned about him. His affect around here is terrible and people know there is something VERY wrong with him. He has told a few people what he's trying to accomplish. Problem is he has lost him momentum with his conversations with his wife. He has been striving for a mutual split to ease the pain for all involved, but left an opening for her to do 'whatever' it is she's doing to fix things. He has not enough balls to tell her there's nothing she can nor needs to do, and I don't have enough balls to not love him anymore. I love you guys!!

Av, I can close the door, but Christ! What am I supposed to say after that and not answering the phone the rest of the week. I dont' like to pay games, but for sure he will notice that I'm not reachable. How do I explain the SUDDEN change in behavior without looking like a crazy woman. And no, I dont' wanna appear gamish or crazy. I want to do things with dignity. This will really throw him and regardless of my motives, I have to be prepared to respond when he catches up with me and says, "wher have you been or What's your problem???" What do I say without sounding whiney or insane, but still making my point???

Thanks, Av. I do want you to know that I seriously pursued the job in Chicago. lew there, interviewed and negotiated the salary and everything. It would have meant selling my home, taking a pay cut AND having to cover my own moving expenses. I had my bottom line with the employer and he was unwilling to budge. I pursued the job in a serious attempt to MOVE ON. I know I can't move on underneat B's nose here where we work. I have proven that to myself time and time again. So, had the offer been when I needed it to be, I was ready to go. I had a renter lined up for my house in the interim, etc. I was dead serious. But you are right, he only started the dialogue with the wife when he thought I was moving away from him. HE does the whole, "you're running amuck" crap in a joking tone, but he does it ALL the time. It's exhausting and I don't DO ANYTHING. He knows I've been on dates and will continue to do so. He also knows that if I fall in love with someone, be it here or in Chicago, I would NOT cheat on that guy with HIM. He was crushed when I told him that. I don't wanna be a cheater. I told him I wouldn't do it to that guy (whoever that guy would be) and I certainly wouldn't do it to him. I dont' think I was duped in anyway since I tried my best with the employer and took the flight there against B's wishes. I think it made a statement that I was serious about changing my life. He was shocked when I said I couldn't take the job. I told him I was going to pursue things here in my state. I guess I don't understand his willingness to be so public with me and to house sit for me. He offered, which I thought was really weird. I was really surprised when he asked to watch it for the three days. IF things are progressing at home via conversation with the wife, why on earth is he risking being seen with me. That would turn it into a FIGHT over ther and that isn't what he wants' He wants the agreeable, amicable split which is what he's got so far. But again, you are right: NO he has not filed for divorce. Yes, he still lives in the house. Going through the motions while the conversations continue. Are you telling me there isn't a shred of hope that he will follow through? I can't believe that. I guess I don't wanna believe that, because he's so excited about the progress he's made in the last month. Do you suggest I close the door to my office today. I mean Christ....the last thing he said to me yesterday wa sI love you. I said it back. It would seem VERY strange to just cut him off like that. He thinks he's making progress and then suddenly my door is closed and I don't answer the phone. What do you suggest????

Hello my loyal advisors, iit has been a long time and I have been trying to deal with this "B" situation on my own. I had a job offer in Chicago very far from where I live and B found out about it. HE panicked and began talking of leaving the wife. I told him I was looking into this move because I was unhappy with WORK and that I can no longer attenpt to move ON while we remain working at the same place, so that personally I am unhappy as well as professionally. He told me he was going to do somehting about this situation. Since then, he has had several major conversations with his wife and she is in agreement that the two of them have nothing remotely resembling a marriage and that all they have together are their two kids. He said he feels 50 pounds lighter having talked to her about not wanting to stay married like that. He told her there wouldn't be any animosity, it's not like he would never speak to her again, they have kids together. She agreed. I was shocked. This is the most he's ever done to change his situaiton. He is very proud of these progressive convos with her. He has also confided in his brother who was divorced last year. Brother told him he needs to do it, everyone knows they're unhappy together and brother has no idea I exist. Brother offered to help with money. B thought of places he can put his things like his camper, his bikes, etc. He asked a co-worker of ours if he thought the two of them would make good roommates. He has managed to get the wife to admit she's been miserable for 5 years and was just as afraid of change as he was. He told her he has nothing left to give and that she should think about it. That was the last I hear and that was Monday morning. I left for a trip and he took care of my house while I was gone. He went to myhome twice a day, and upon my return I found lovey cards and candy, a bottle of wine, all waiting for me when I got back. It was very nice. Also, the Saturday prior to that, I was out with friends at a local club. He showed up with his friends and acted like we were a couple. He was very proud to be out with me and dancing, etc. IT felt so real and wonderful. When I told him I wasn't going to take the job in Chicago since they couldn't pay my moving expenses, he got very excited and told me he was makign things happen at home. He was 'getting it done.' He has explained to me it is a process and that it won't happen over night, but that he has made major progress. I knew he brought it up to her March 25, and I was afraid he would drop it and lose him momentum. Then after I told him I wasn't taking that job on MOnday the 5th, he was so happy and told me that he was getting it done at home and told me about their recent conversations and how shocked he was that she was in agreement with everything he presented to her. The only thing mising from their dialogue was about him moving out. He has always said he wanted his leaving to be an agreement between the two and that he didn't want it to be a drag out fight. Well, he's got that right now. He did say on that Monday morning that he told her to think about it and then told me, "I dont' know....she may wanna try again, but I have nothing left to give. I've done everything I can. I stopped trying a long time ago." I asked "why then, if you aren't going to try are you going to LET her try and make a fool of herself? Spare her that if you're already done. Sh'e salready on the same page, don't make this worse. Everything sounds good so far." He said, "I dont' know, I mean, SHE may think she needs to to make herself feel better, I dont' know." I told him and he agreed that he's just delaying the inevitable, be it 6 weeks, or six months. He understood. Well, I've seen him a couple times since then. He's always accusing me of 'messing around 'with other men since I have to travel for work. I told him to stop. He knows he can't demand anything of me and I have simply asked him for a committment to a timeline. He can't seem to give me anything other than, "I am doing something. It's happening and I've taken major steps, but I can't promise you I'll have it done in 30 days." I dont' know people. Looking for a little insight from you all. I'm ready for it! Fire away!!!!

Yes, I understand. But that doesn't make the intense feelings in my hert and body dissapate. They just stay there. I am trying. Today is very hard for me. First, I am sick. Second, the last time we spoke was very nice and then I told him NO about touching me and he got a bit stern and overexaggerated saying, "I WILL NEVER DO THAT AGAIN!Ever...I can assure you it willnever happen again and I don't faulter." He was trying to hurt me by saying it like that and I called him on it. "Wh yare you saying it llike that. You're just trying to hurt me. WHy are you doing that." He said that's just what he does. Normally, with his wife, he would make is dramatic statement and walk out of the room and not speak to her for 10 days to punisher her. (that was a direct quote) I told him I don't understand why he does that and it's not necessary with me. He walked me to my car saying that's how he's always been and I would probably hate living with him. At the car he told me to not be mad. I was speechless and drove away. He didn't apologize yet, but then I haven't seen him. I may see him today in passing. So, I'm sick, that was our last conversation after listening to him talk about him sorting things out and wanting to go see a counselor to help him make his decision. Then I just learned my grandma will probably die this week. My mom's mom and B was with me when MY mom died last year. So I really want to talk to him. I feel like I need him. But the strong part of me knows he owes me an apology and I don't wanna call him about my grandma or initiate the convo. I feel so sad. But I haven't calle dor anything. I have been on a ton of dates, meeting nice people and some not so nice. GOD!

Thanks. I needed a little pick me up. I appreciate that AVMAN. You are so right. I mean, I am living like a woman who's moving on, but my heart struggles. Thanks

i'm back. Two days ago while still on the program, he came into my office when no one was here. For 2.5 hours he talked to me about what he's going through. He covered so many angles of his situation and I let it rip a couple times about how he's been doing nothing and shouldn't tell me he's doing something when he's not. I got a lot off my chest. I said things to him that I have been saying to my girlfriends about his indecisiveness. It felt good to get that out. He is disgusted with himself because he is struggling so much with what to do and how to do it, when in all other areas of his life, he's extremely decisive. He admitted he doesn't like himself because of this 'weakness' of not being strong enough to leave her. He said he and the wife are not FIGHTING all the time. They don't scream and they are just existing. He is very used to the status quo over there and does realize his kids would bounce back. I also told him AGAIN why I can't be involved with him and he said he understands, but that he realizes he's in the same situation as he was in a year ago. He's mad that his situation hasn't improved and that he's been a coward to take steps to change it either way. I told him how much pain he's put me thru by not fixing his marriage and leaving me alone, or leaving the marriage to start anew. He understands that now. I have NEVER had this involved a comversation about this with him. It lasted 2.5 hours uninterrupted. He said we've been sancing around the issue and it was time we talked about it. We were very honest about everything. He admitted that things at home are not THAT bad (as you have all told me here) but that he knows his quality of life would improve if he was with me. He left the office after this lengthy talk and then returned an hour later. I was poised for some huge revelation as he closed the door. He never does that. Instead, he grabbed me, wrapped himself around me and took me in. He was holding me so hard and slowly rocking back and forth. I got emotional and said as he was looking into my eyes, nose to nose, "Can you live with out me, B" and he looked into me and said, "No...no I can't. I cannot live without you, Heather." So I looked back at him and told him, "you have to believe." He held me for about 10 more minutes. It was very surreal. I didn't understand what exactly was happening there, but he was very deliberate. During the convo he had asked me, "what do you want me to do?" I refused to answer the question. Later in the convo he was talking about how to bring it up to her and asked me how to do it. I gave him generic responses, but also assured him the wife will NEVER make a suggestion to spllit becasue she too is too scared to be on her own. Told him they are having convos in circles praying the other person will make the suggestion. I told him he needs to take control of the situation and not rely on her to do it. So much for no contact. I was doing my part. But I am not kickign him out of my office either. Like I think when he comes through, "THIS IS THE TIME, this is the day he tells me something." I feel like I"m failing yet I feel I learned some things from that exchange. Am I all messed up???

Digital DIva....what do you mean by your post?

Day 15 of the No Contact Program. He's really feeling it. I am fighting many urges and I am growing increasingly weak. Mostly because a coiuple of the men I went on dates with made me feel objectified and 'unsafe.' Not in a fear for my life kind of way, just that they are not concerned with ME or my well-being. Made me feel really crappy and paranoid. This past Monday I was in the no-contact zone. B passed by my office and stopped in. He was mad about a very business-like email I had sent last wee. He thought it was too impersonal. Christ, what does he expect. I warned him this is how I would have to be. Anyway, after trying to make me feel guilty, I assured him I was being business, and again there was nothing CADDY in the email. He said he doesn't like and doesn't understand why it affects him this way. I explained to him that everything I DON'T say to him will upset him bnecause we are not together the way he wants so he will be reading into everything I say and don't say. He proceeded to tell me how much he misses talking with me, how much he misses me. He says he 'talks' to me all the time when he's alone. Later, he came in again. Made a work comment, stared at me, I sat there quietly, then he blurted out "I LOVE YOU, HEATHER!" He looked so sick. My heart started pounding and I broke. Tears came out a little and I said it back. ANd then I reminded him this in tears: B, you just have so many more distractions. You have this job, the kids, all the chores you do over there. I have none of that. You don't HAVE to think about this all the time." He told me he realizes this and wish I COULD be in his shoes to see what THAT is like (he was being nice, not nasty.) I told him, "this is just how it's going to be, B. Until you get some strength. I'm not calling you a coward, but you have no strength." "I know, I know. I am at my breaking point, Heather. I am. Last night I was at that point and then THIS place [work]. I know there has to something better a better life for me. I just don't...." hung his head down. I assured him there IS something better out there. You have to make things happen for yourself. He stood staring at me, I stared back, our eyes filled with small tears. But there was no mention of what his PLAN was. I told him to have a good shift. I cannot have him thinking we are going to be buddies nor that he can tell me he's DOING SOMETHING and not follow thru after telling me I LOVE YOU the way he is doing. I came in the next day and he was friendly, coming in here. I was un emotive. He told me about these flowers outside the building he wanted me to see/smell as they wre so fragrant. He was very mystical about this. For some reason I was MAD that he was checking in with me to see how I was. He was nice. I was more irritated and short knowing I am in the no-contct mode. He was nice and concerned about me. Before I left for the day, I backed up our day-earlier convo with a very brief email: I've heard every word you've ever said to me, B. and yes, a life of "something better" DOES exist. I am right here and I love you, but you have to follow through." (AGAIN my point being for him to follow thru with what he says he wants or leave me alone.) I returned yesterday to find this repsonse to the email (I wasn't expecting a response anyway) it said: "I hear you, it's just not that easy for me to go do that to my kids." I was surprised to get the response. Why doesn't he just say, "I can't do it, Heather." or something more definitive the OTHER way, "I hear you, I am going to follow through, I am preparing the girls, it won't be easy." or something. He is always RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE. At any rate, I have not responded to the email. DOn't think that I will. It never ceases to amaze me that this man can be so miserable, reaching his 'breaking points' as he calls them, and stay where he is. I am dating others, meeting new people, but as you can see the NO CONTACT program is tough to follow due to work and him popping in here. God knows I'm not calling him or initiating this LOVE stuff that is coming from him. I finally told him on that Monday with tears in my eyes after he told me how much he loves me, "I know, B. and I hate seeing you like this, but you have to do something to help yourself cuz I can't help you or be with you until you do. It's just that simple." Am I losing round here, Friends? I'm trying, I really am. What is HAPPENING!!!!

Yesterday was day 6 of the No Contact program and I thought I would share with you my experience. I have mixed feeling about an interaction that occurred between B and I, and want to present it here: I have had no 'contact ' with him since our big talk on Saturday, 12/27. There was that little issue of him sending me the photos last Tuesday and me sending him the N.Y. email to which he didn't not repsond, but I have never spoken to him since then. NOr did I break down and call to ask why he didn't respond to my email. I just let it go. Ignorned him MOnday this week as well. Yesterday, an employee and B came into my office to discuss a work issue. HE looked like CRAP! While in here, he would't make eye contact with me during the discussion. He was participating, but keeping his head down, or looking out the window over my head. OK, so an order of protection was lost and it was falling on his shoulders. The 3-way convo ended after about 15 minutes. They both left. B was in a very pissy mood. I had the followup info and walked it over to his office. When I walked in, he was sitting with his head down, listening to 'our' latest song. He was visibly mad and crappy. I laid the pw down and commented on the Sgt who I thought had the information, etc...He was very angry/sad about whatever. He broke a pen in half while I was standing there writing down some additonal information. I didn't say a word and I left the building. 30 mins later he came to my office and said, "john had the order of protection in his car!!!" I told himthat was good and now everyone can relax. Turned and looked at my computer. Then he looked at the picture of me with my father and made some comments about meeting my dad. I kept on my computer. Then he started rambling about the coworker who last the pw. I couldnt help but laugh it was relly funny. When I looked up from laughing, he was tanding there with this, "oh I miss seeing you smile, laugh. you just made my day" look on his face. I said nothing and then told him, "stop it." He got very quiet, I turned to my computer again and he was very serious he said: "what was that email about? Sounds to me you're packing up and going somewhere." "What are you talking about. I was just trying to say happy new year. thats all. I don't know WHY would think I was moving." "I don't know. it was just weird. I don't know what tp make of it. SOmetimes I dont' understand you. You say too much." "Well, B, I thought you always understood me. ALl I was saying was to have a good year. I really do wish you well. It wasn't anything like, 'HAPPY NEW YEAR, YOU"RE NOT WITH ME, GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR CRAPPY LIFE', I was being sincere. That's all. I just didnt' want it to go by ignored, that's all. Xmas came and went and it was lik eit never happened. We didn't acknowledge it to each other. We didn't even wish each other a merry xmas, so I didn't want N Y to go ignored. that's all." he said, "why wish each other a merry xmas, heather?" "because I would be wishing one for you." he said in a very SERIOUS tone staring at me, "but was it?!" quietly I said, "no, no it wasn't" "No, it f-ing wasn't, so why say it?!" and he just stared at me like he'd had the most miserable xmas of his life. I simply said, " look, I would wish you a good year. I was being sincere. Thre was nothing implied, you knowme better than that. I dont' take jabs." "Well, you're the only woman who doesn't. I do know you. I know. It's just NOT going to be a good year, so why bother even saying it." ANd he looked down at his feet. He sounded so pathetic and irritated. I was holding myself together, being stoic. I sat there quietly not knowing what to say, not wanting to get INTO anything. He brought this up, I was trying to be as simple as I could without talking about our SITUATION, missing him ,etc. But it was obvious to me the email made him think I was MOVING or something. I never asked him WHY he never responded and maybe that bothered him. He has seen me here a few times since the saturday talk and I have done the no contact. I think he expected me to ask him about the email. Here he was standing in my doorway lookling like a 10 year old boy who just lost his favorite puppy. He looks sick to his stomach and has a scowl on his face. He stood there staring at me after he said, "so why bother, it's not going to be a good year either, heather." Just staring at me. I said nothing. HE quietly said, "I will talk to you later" and left the building. Without me putting my thought about it down right now, i think i'd rather hear what you all have to say. Where would he get the idea I was packing up? That was bizarre. And I hoep I handled it well. In the past when he has been like that, I have folded and expounded my reactions to include things like, "it was the worst, I miss you so much. You dont 'HAVE to have a bad year. Make changes, etc" I did nothing like that. I am wondering his motives here (not like he's leaving his wife or something) but sometimes, no all the time, I'm blind to what he's doing. Any thoughts. Thanks team!!!!

Absoluetly they will get bigger. I am a true believer in genetics being the primary driving force behind how we will look at 40 and 50. I was a tall, athletic HS student. None of the boys paid much attnetion to me, they were all my buddies. All the boys were into the short chicks with the big boobs (early puberty= body fat), and the tight butts in jeans. Well, I went to my HS reunion in '97. I was amazed: all the GIRLS looked the same with the same hair, all were still 5'3 but now weighed about 140 pounds. I couldn't believe it. They had all continued eating the way they had in school and looked like hell. I on the other hand, was a towering 6'1 @ 160 lean pounds with curves. I highly recommend that all the young guys choose the taller girls who's mothers look very similar. I am aging quite nicely (did get a boob job to balance my body), but I work hard. Watch out for those tall girls....they turn into BOMBSHELLS...so I'm told!

Smickey, You stay strong too. I wrote in my journal last night as well. Yesterday was filled with mixed emotions, all of which I wrote about on here. As I was sriving home I was VERY tempted to text page B with a cute message about his angeled sideburns. He knows I love them that way and right now he had been growing them out for me. They are perfect. I was gonna write something clever to his pager about them, but i didn't. I went to sleep and awoke today thinking: YOU DID IT. YOU GOT THRU ALL THOSE URGES TO CONTACT. Now it's Tuesday and all I have to do is get through 3p-5p MST. I will go home after that and then I don't have to SEE or hear him until next Monday. I feel OK today. TIme will tell how the day goes. It was just so sad for us yesterday. To see us, we just look so miserable trying to keep our distance so we can heal. Niether one of us wants it this way, but he knows it's not good for his marriage, nor is it good for me, so until he's free, this is how it has to be. You should see us. We really look pathetic.

I will try. Today was my first time seeing him since hte new year. Last I saw him was last Tuesday when he came in to see if I go thte email with the pictures. I sent the NEW YEAR email and he never responded. So, today was the first sighting. Trying to get thru the day. I shouldn't CARE if he looks sad and crappy (doesnt' mean he's doing anything), but I can honestly say it's so much better than if he were laughing and carrying on. I will NOT let him see me sad. I simply cannot. I will become the six foot actres of the century. You watch!

Hi Avman. I am glad you are there today. I wrote that last post about feeling good because he looked so crappy and miserable. And then he walked by a third time with other people carrying things and STILL didn't look in. I have two very different feelings about this: 1) he looks sad and is purposely not looking in here either because he's trying to do what I need, or because he doesn't wanna look at me and be reminded of whathe doesnt' have. Him looking like crap like that inspires me to NOT look like crap becasue seeing him like that makes me feel more POWERFUL. Llike he's miserable since I pulled myself out and all he's left with his crap situation at home with NO HEATHER to lean on and make him feel good about him and the world. and then that moment passes for me and turns to this: 2) He looks sad and is ABLE to ignore me. I feel hurt and unimportant, like he's not even phased by all this. This part of me wants to KNOW he's in pain, unhappy and maybe even a little mad at me for being a strong woman. Is possible he does?

Well, I convinced myself to not say ONE word to him. I don't really see what purpose it would serve. I wanted some kind of reassurance he still loves me or something along those lines. Well, I think we've already established he does and he's a miserable man remaining where he is. I certainly hope he's clear on my feelings and knows I'm sincere- that he's not being dramatic in his head thinking I no loner love or want to be with him. ( I say that because I do that in MY head all the time and he's a lot like me.) Anyway, I had decided to NOT say a word and he happened to pass by my office as I was on the phone. He walked by looking like CRAP. Head down, no smile, no emotions. He passed back by a second time, same sick look on his face. How sad, wouldn't you agree. (you really should see him when he's happy- when he's with me) it makes me a bit sad to see him that way. THEN I remember how SAD I WAS over xmas. Nothing can compare to THAT dispair. Hello? Anyone out there??

SOmeone kick my as s!!!!! I am contemplating saying something very brief to him when he arrives this afternoon like, "Hey, I didn't mean to upset with you the New Years email. I was being sincere." He would probably come back with, "i just didn't know what u wanted me to say. I was like...i don't get it." I would retort with, "look B, I don't HATE you. I wish you well. I just can't be around you until something changes over there. That's all. It's how my heart works." OK people, I want to say this and I need your opinion. Is this not a good thing to so? I am just dying to know WHY he never responded. Please kick me if I need it.

Good morning all! It's not such a good morning, but I am trying to be positive. I was quiet and a bit reserved all weekend. Didn't go out at all. I just don't feel up to it. I read books about cheaters and moving on, etc., at the book stores yesterday to build me up. IT works, but it's only a temporary fix. I came into work HOPING there would be an email addressing the New Year email I sent to B last Tuesday, but I received nothing from him. I know I shouldn't have been hoping for anything, but I can't help it. I know he's a miserable guy right now- I mean if I've taken away the thing that gets him by and the thing that makes him happy and sane, he most assuredly is miserable. According to a coworker friend of ours, he hasn't been sleeping much. It's been very busy here at work he tells me. Later today he will be here at 2:30 MST. I could use some reaffirming words from you all about how there's nothing more I can do. He's weak and can't take control, etc. I can read and re-read all the previous posts, I was just hoping for something fresh and new to psur me through the day. I must admit, I am a little saddened he never responded to my new year email. I dont' get that. Thanks everyone.

Was thinking again about this CONTACT at work and why it's so cut and dry for me: Over this pat year I've been trying this approach. At first I kept my door closed. I would pass him int he hall and be looking down at paperwork, etc. Eventually, he would stop in and say hello. Ask how I've been and I would have this fake, "I'm OK. How are you?" response to that. IT was excruiating! Work stuff around here can be complex. In this case, he will pop in and say, "what the HELL is the Chief doing? Did you heear about Frank? or say how he's overwhelmed with some bullcrap over in Patrol, etc." That's the hook! I don't think he's doing it on purpose, but as soon as it goes to tthose topics, (mind you we're still in love playing actors at this point) I tell him something logical about how it should be handled. He gives me this, "You're so amazing" look. And so it goes. That's why even business convos are difficult for me. We're never OVER each other so any excuse to be in the same romm together or topic of work crap is just that: an excuse. I hate that I work this way: Can't have ANY conversation with him. Keep myself entirely AWAY. But I can't see any other way to heal. If he's standing in my doorway looking at all beautiful, askign how I am....I'm still connected in some way. Maybe I could move to Iraq or something!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you see what I'm saying here? Even work convos keep us connected. UGH!

NEW DAY!!!!! NEW YEAR!!!!! Going into this year with my eyes wide open. I HUGE thank you to all of you who have putt up with my as s ove this past year. I am determined to DO IT this time. It is in my nature to obsess on details liek you'fve pointed out. It is exhausting to say the least, but it is how I am. I told my closest friend on Weds. that the last day of 2003 was the last day I put THAT kind of energy into B and this situation that I really have con control over. That if I am not healing properly or am remotely stuck on him like this next year at this time, I owe it to myself to change jobs. I can't continue on like this, but I definitly have to give it 100% effort NOW to break it off so at the end of the year I can look at myself and say I did everything I could. I dont' wanna force myself to quit my job. Mar: I am + about leaving this situation, but I will admit I am scared. No, I dont' want him to stop feeling for me what he does. I've never been loved like that before. I suppose that over this past year I was always afraid his feelings would diminish and they never did, so that's good. But it doesn't change the fact that he's married to someone else. I always said, "how sad for him. He's in love with me, knows how great we are together and how he feels when I'm part of his life,. yet he chooses to stay with her. At least I have a chance to meet a new love. He won't choose me, nor will he find that hapiness with her. His future is quite bleak" It's quite simple really. I know. So, I will strive to maintain the NO CONTACT rule/program. I WAS doing that all last year and would go for quite sometime w/o knowing ANYTHING about what was going on in his life. Didnt' share anything about me. No calls, no email, etc. I have been successful at it before so I know I can do it again. This time it's for me. Like I said before, before, the no-contact program was to instigate him to leave her....be so miserable w/o me that he HAD to leave her. It really wasn't about me moving on. But now it is, so I think it will be VERY different. I think I DID tell him the truth about himself a bit on our Saturday conversation. I told him that I felt he was waiting for his wife to come home and 'release' him from his situation. When he refuted that, I challenged abck with telling him I thought he was then waiting for that PERFECT moment. I told him he's simply afraid to be the bad and refusing to take change of his life. He wants the women in his life to make decisions for him. It felt pretty damn good to say those things to him. Anyway, I also have to take into consideration that he has so many more distractions than I do that make this all more bearable fro him. I mean, he has a VERY stressful, busy job in the field, two daughters with busy schedules, hobbies and projects he searches for around his house to keep him busy. I have none of that. I sit in an office all day with constant reminders of him: people bringing up his name, wearing his cologne, tons of things. I have no kids to focus on, no husband to fall back on (also none to feel guilty about), I don't do projects around the house- I'm not that handy, etc. So there are distinct differences in how we are coping with this loss. Mine seems far more unbearable since I have nothing to take my attention AWAY from it. I am jealous of him for that. But I am thankful I don't have a husband I"m lying to, sleeping with, being unfaithful to, etc. I live honestly. Thank goodness for that!!!!!

OK. Yes I know...NO CONTACT RULE! Just remember, he and I work together. I MUST hear him, sometimes pass him in the hallway here at the PD at least twice per week (mondays and tuesdays). Other than that, once every couple months when we do a recruitment of new officers, he has to be there all day with us. Next one being Jan. 17. Actually, he has articulated turmoil about not only his marriage, but trying to make this decision. Saying how it would affect his daughters, he's petrified of the instability that would come with getting out on his own. What he has never had difficulty in expressing is his feelings for me. The fact that he has everything he needs in me, he is whole and happy when we're together. He knows I can give him everything his wife does, however she can never bring to his life what I do. He's very articulate about a lot of things. By response, you're speaking about responding to my new year email? The email had nothing to do with our Saturday conversation, so I'm not expecting to write back anything like: I have made up my mind. I am goin gto move out in February. Or anything like that. When he gets here to work on Saturday and has all this alone time, he sits and listens to OUR SONGS. He does thal all the time (hence the sending me of the songs and videos.) Problem is: In order for me to heal I mustn't even TALK TO HIM. To stop and say hello and catch up in the hall or for him to stop in my office here doesn't work. I have tried to keep that from happening over the past year. When he does pop in, I am short and not talkative. I don't mean to be mean, but that's how I work. I dont' like being rude to soemone I care so much for, but I know that's the only thaing that works for me since I can't cahnge jobs.

I understand you. I do. Thing with B is: he's exactly LIKE me. We are the same person in different bodies. There are things that are different- enough to keep us challenged in good ways, but as far as our emotions, desires, sensitvity, expression, we are one person. It's quite erie! That's why it's hard for me to think of WHY he didn'dt respond, but took the time to send me photos two days after I broke it off with him. Then come in here and engage me in convo about the photos, pretending he never read my email (not knowing I got a receipt that he read it.) I am not a man and I am not a woman with kids. I do spend so much of my time thinking, "he's so miserable. He's in constant turmoil. whay doesn't he put himself out of his misery." I mean, the two separated several years ago, long before I ever came into the pix. Now with me here, I just dont' understand why he wouldn't give himself the chance to be by himself (separate) to clearly feel and experience life without her, or start to experience life with me. he's not giving himself that chance. I don't understand that. (thanks for obliging me today on this last day of worry) He is so able to articulate his turmoil, he doesn't whine or anything like that. he is very matter of fact- he's a cop for heaven's sake. ANyway, do you think, based on what you have read here throughout, that he BELIEVES he is doing something. Do you think he REALLY has a plan for himself and this situation. He could very easily have said, "I'm so sorry heather, but I can't ever leave my girls. I am staying here." he didn't have to tell me he was doing something and needed time, right?