RayKay Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 Think he meant some. Could be wrong though. I did not think he did mean 'all' either, but I think you wander into dangerous territory when you start talking about them being 'trumped up'. There is still a LOT of sexual violence against women, and I don't think propagating the idea "it's all in your head" helps, because so many women already DO blame themselves already for "what happened". Yes, there are cases where it turns out that the charges were falsely laid, but they do not in any degree offset those cases that are VERY real. And focusing on those issues where they ARE trumped up as evidence of how we are "too PC" does not help. Link to comment
tylercdurden2004 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 I did not think he did mean 'all' either, but I think you wander into dangerous territory when you start talking about them being 'trumped up'. There is still a LOT of sexual violence against women, and I don't think propagating the idea "it's all in your head" helps, because so many women already DO blame themselves already for "what happened". Yes, there are cases where it turns out that the charges were falsely laid, but they do not in any degree offset those cases that are VERY real. No one said they did. Link to comment
Carnatic Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 I don't think he meant that charges for rape were trumped up, I think he meant that things that aren't rape can be trumped up to be rape. It's similar to the stories you hear about guys in a office who smile, say hello, maybe flirt with a girl in the office they like and find themselves being accused of sexual harassment... this is fairly rare but thanks to the media it is reported as hype and it puts men on the defensive. But can we please move away from this sort of deep nitpicking of one comment... it threatens to derail the thread. Link to comment
tylercdurden2004 Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 But can we please move away from this sort of deep nitpicking of one comment... it threatens to derail the thread. ..........Agreed......... Link to comment
CarnelianButterfly Posted April 3, 2006 Share Posted April 3, 2006 but because he was coming from a standpoint that advocated confidence CG and Shysoul immediately jump on him and argue that you should be yourself and treat women with respect and confidence won't take you all the way. If you'd actually taken the time to read Camguy's pot you'd see he wan't even saying anything you disagree with. I have taken the time to read his post and others from him as well, specifically this... In my experience, and through observation, women tend to be attracted to assertive MEN. Here is a list of things that I believe will help generate more success for men when it comes to their counterparts. I found it in an article I read. I sware this works. You just have to be sexually confident with yourself. And just what determines sexual confidence? Sexually confident men: - Are challenges, not feet-kissing doormats - Don't make excuses for who they are -- they exude sexuality and they're comfortable with their natural masculinity - Assume that they're "the catch," not the woman - Are unpredictable, untamed and can't be tied down - Aren't afraid of being who they are - Have no interest in being PC, morphing their true selves to gain female approval, or being overly nice - Don't have to trade money or gifts for sex (a.k.a. "dating") - Always control the relationship - Never tolerate any female BS - Radiate sexually-charged body language - Flirt easily and well - Are natural leaders, not followers - Unabashedly look at women's bodies - Don't care if they score with a particular woman, because they know that there are many others waiting in line. They want sex, but they don't need it -- they aren't desperate and groveling for it - Are not constantly available - Never apologize for who they are - Act like men around women, not wusses. The things I have put in bold face are very much signs of disrespect. Argue all you want, but tell me how would you feel if you were standing next to your wife and she unabashedly watched the pool guy clean out the filter? Link to comment
RayKay Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 I I think he meant that things that aren't rape can be trumped up to be rape. Exactly my point about why it's dangerous territory. Because whom makes that distinction about what IS trumped up, and what isn't...I have seen a lot of times even girls on this forum whom come in here ASKING if something is rape because they honestly don't know. It is clear they were sexually violated, and they said no, but they don't know if it "counts" since they for example, had kissed the person willingly earlier, or had accepted drinks. As I said earlier, there are indeed cases where charges are falsely made for whatever reason, and I know that too. It's just dangerous territory is all to get into. I was not nitpicking a comment, I was commenting on the general tone of what that kind of thinking propagates. And that's my final comment Link to comment
CamGuy Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 See, this is what I am talking about. Dont take my comments out of context., I am all for women's rights, and the progression of their sexuality. But the fact is, the power and liberation of women in this world should not come to the expense of natural masculinity. I have heard so many women spout out jargon about "not needing a man", and "feeling oppressed in a mans world", then turn around and complain about how their husbands are wussies and never stand up for themselves. Nature intended men to be strong, assertive, bold, sexual -- this is why testosterone surges through their bloodstreams. This is a man's right -- his heritage -- as a member of the male gender. However through an onslaught of feminism, men have begun to feel GUILTY for who they really are. That is not fair. When a man becomes confident and secure about his sexuality, he immediately asserts his independence and individuality. He becomes more selective. His self-image has been enhanced and he is comfortable being who he is instead of constantly changing his behavior to fit into society's current format. Women, you should be the same way, but don't complain about men being men. The object here isnt to be the "bad-boy" jerk. It is to embrace ones self, and accpet who you really are. I am not Advocating the actions of rapists and sexual deviants. They are scum. But there have been HUNDREDS of BS cases where greedy man hating feminist lawyers seek out individuals in attempt to nailing them to the cross: and for what?!. FOr simply being a man. I love women, and i respect them., But i will never surrender my own natural masculinity. I am a man, and I am a GOOD ONE. I have good intentions, and a good heart. I have integrity to treat the women i love with respect, but in addition, to TREATY MYSELF with respect. Link to comment
tylercdurden2004 Posted April 4, 2006 Share Posted April 4, 2006 Well put Cam. I dont really think you can make yourself more clear. Link to comment
oki1029 Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 hmm.. thats a good question. i think i have a pretty accurate answer. y'see.. guys start out as nice to everyone, which is the way to be, unless you're dealing with women. basically, we reach a point in our life where we discover that women are pretty useless, when it comes to things like 'trust', and 'relationships', and 'not being manipulitive'... but then we see the wonders of how useful they are when we need sex. so, based on everything we know, women stick around guys who treat them badly.. so we use that method. its pretty much the fastest and easiest way to get into their pants, and you don't have to deal with all the attachment issues you had before you realized what women are all about. I hope that helps. Link to comment
CamGuy Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 hmm.. thats a good question. i think i have a pretty accurate answer. y'see.. guys start out as nice to everyone, which is the way to be, unless you're dealing with women. basically, we reach a point in our life where we discover that women are pretty useless, when it comes to things like 'trust', and 'relationships', and 'not being manipulitive'... but then we see the wonders of how useful they are when we need sex. so, based on everything we know, women stick around guys who treat them badly.. so we use that method. its pretty much the fastest and easiest way to get into their pants, and you don't have to deal with all the attachment issues you had before you realized what women are all about. I hope that helps. Now that was FUNNY! Link to comment
polka Posted April 5, 2006 Author Share Posted April 5, 2006 hmm.. thats a good question. i think i have a pretty accurate answer. y'see.. guys start out as nice to everyone, which is the way to be, unless you're dealing with women. basically, we reach a point in our life where we discover that women are pretty useless, when it comes to things like 'trust', and 'relationships', and 'not being manipulitive'... but then we see the wonders of how useful they are when we need sex. so, based on everything we know, women stick around guys who treat them badly.. so we use that method. its pretty much the fastest and easiest way to get into their pants, and you don't have to deal with all the attachment issues you had before you realized what women are all about. I hope that helps. You have GOT to be kidding me. I don't care if you were joking. That really isn't very funny. In addition, I think Carnatic's idea of "inherent masculinity" and "women really want a man, not a wuss" is ridiculous. This is yet another assumption being made about women. Not all women want a manly man, you know. I for one really don't like "manly men"...they turn me off completely. Yes, women may want a man who "stands up for himself", but I don't see how standing up for yourself is a "manly/masculine trait", as you implied. Who says so? Can't standing up for yourself be a unisexual trait? Plenty of women are able to stand up for themselves too. I'd just say that they have confidence and assertiveness, not that they have "manly traits". Standing up for yourself can be a very female trait too! Yet, Carnatic specifically stated that women like a man who stands up for himself because he portrays manly traits. Oh, and I hate to burst your bubble, but "crazy feminist man-hating lawyers" really don't go randomly attacking and sueing innocent men for rape/sexual harassment just for the sake of it. They may choose to take on more cases of sexual harassment or rape because it resonates with their particular moral beliefs and interests, but I can't see one just going after an innocent man just because they're crazy feminists. Like everyone else has said, sexual harassment and rape is very real. For every case of sexual harassment/rape that is brought to court, ten more remain untold. That's because people still tend to blame the woman for "bringing it on", such as blaming her for wearing a skirt too tight or for giving her guy friend "signs". It is also a very shameful feeling, to be defiled in such a way, and many women simply want to leave the past behind and move on with their life without letting anyone know. Link to comment
Dako Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Oh come on polka! Let the boys strut. It's a bonding thing. Link to comment
keenan Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 I don't think they're strutting. I think they're high-fiving and slapping each other's bottoms. Link to comment
oki1029 Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 not to worry. i'm not forcing these ideals down anyone's throat. seems like I could be wrong on some levels, but... wait, no, this is pretty much without fault. sorry. Link to comment
Carnatic Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Hey Hey! I think you're mixing me up with someone else, I didn't say any of those things, can you please read my posts before you go about attacking me over them. I said guys should be confident and the nice guys often make the mistake of assuming you have to be a jerk to be confident. I also agreed partly with CamGuy's idea that men are made to feel ashamed of being men sometimes these days. I did not say, nor do I agree with, any of the things you have put in speech marks and I did not say confidence was exclusive to men and I did not say all women like a man who stands up for himself. I am sick to death of trying to put forward a balanced view and then being portrayed as an extreme of one camp and crucified. I've had it with this thread. Link to comment
CarnelianButterfly Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 I don't think they're strutting. I think they're high-fiving and slapping each other's bottoms. No keenan I don't think these are the kind of guys that would slap each others butts unless there was football field involved. They're porbably as homophobic as they are gynophobic. Link to comment
hoping Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 i have been reading this thread.....and i love the lil humor in between the heated debate! hahaha well as far as my experience goes.....nice guys does NOT finish last! and an a$$hole certain does NOT go far..... unless ur a woman who has been thro abusive relationships and is god-knows-what-reason drawn to the abusiveness of a relationship....most women will respond in a positive way if their significant others SHOW that they care and they want to do things for the women.....hence the reason why women gets kinda upset sometimes literally over a later than normal phone call.... on the other hand....i believe a man should just be a man....no such thing as being a "manly man"....yeah man take care of ur business, get out there and make some money so u can support urself and maybe help out with ur family and your significant others....go work out.....get in the best shape u can be....and most importantly....man should just be straight-forward!...if u see a girl worth a compliement...give her the damn compliment....if u feel a girl trottin all over ur face....tell her u dont appreciate it with a firm tone and get the hell outta there! no need for nasty confrontations, and definitly no need to be an absolute d!ck to get a chicks attention.....i read it somewhere in this thread and i totally agree with this..."if a girl digs a jerkieness and the guy being a fckin d!ck for the long terms, theres is DEFINITLY some issues with her!" and ya'll probably wouldn't wanna even go for that kinda girl.... u guys feel what im saying? basically.....why cant people just get along? i have girls bein b!tchy to me before....but hey....why let some'in so dumb bother ya??? who cares! maybe its a shot on ur self-esteem for like that split second....but hey....i am darn sure that every single male in here HAVE what it takes to get a great woman....i also read it in this forum somewhere.....dont be scared to get hurt again....alllll part of the process! if ur in a relationship, and ur not giving ur all....why even waste ur damn time?? anyways im gettin off topic so i think ill stop now...but thats just my view... oh before i forget...Polka....ur views are sometimes quite extreme.....i just like to say that...yes alot of men likes to be d!cks...but they are the kind of guys u meet in certain places...like clubs, or bars.....alot more guys are genuinly really nice.....and u can meet them anywhere...from the gym to simply lining up at tim hortons for a cup of coffee....just keep ya eyes open! Link to comment
tylercdurden2004 Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 This thread needs to be marched straight to the gallows! Please someone. Link to comment
keenan Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 This thread needs to be marched straight to the gallows! Please someone. Are you offering to accompany it? KIDDING. Link to comment
oki1029 Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 oh, ok, I see, delete my posts so these bloodsucking women can make crappy insults without retaliation. thats honorable. Link to comment
tylercdurden2004 Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 Are you offering to accompany it? KIDDING. Actually I am the Bagman! and you gotta real purdy neck! Link to comment
CarnelianButterfly Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 This thread needs to be marched straight to the gallows! Please someone. I think its already the dead horse thats be beaten to the point of dog food... Link to comment
tylercdurden2004 Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 I think its already the dead horse thats be beaten to the point of dog food... Its not so much a dead horse, its teh fact that there has never been a horse. People are just arguing about the semantics here. People arent actually disagreeing with points of view so much as tehy are about literal translation of words. And its going in circles and circles, people are jumping down each others throats and we are not getting any true dialog. Link to comment
oki1029 Posted April 5, 2006 Share Posted April 5, 2006 haha, agree with that one, man. they just keep feeding it and stupidly i respond.. Link to comment
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