For MEN and WOMEN Are Most people unhappily married?

[Lunabelle]

Slightly bent, I apologize, I certainly had no intention to flame you. And by no means is this a "flame war".

 

I was offended that you referred to posts as "nonsensical generalizations" when in fact your post included them too...

 

But seriously, I am curious about how you came to these conclusions about elderly people. My friend is currently about to graduate with a degree in Elder Studies, and your points are actually contrary to what she tells me she is learning about married seniors...and of course we'll all be older at some point, so it's only natural that we explore our attitudes and possible mis-conceptions about aging.

 

I don't see the post about someone calling you stupid, I must be missing it, but I can see where that would hurt you and I understand your feelings.

[Lunabelle]

Oh, Oh slightlybent you must be referring to my post #44.

 

I did not mean to imply YOU are stupid, not at all.

 

I do absolutely disagree with the idea of staying in a bad marriage as some sort of "old age" loneliness insurance. That's just not a good idea.

 

Why do you think most people are happily married or widowed when they die? That's an interesting concept, but again, a gross over generalization.

[Daddy Bear]

I did not mean to imply YOU are stupid, not at all.

 

thanks, Lunabelle. it did rather seem as though that was directed at me, but i accept your response as quoted above. i'm fully over it now, and ready to be friends if you are.

 

I do absolutely disagree with the idea of staying in a bad marriage as some sort of "old age" loneliness insurance. That's just not a good idea.

well, that's kind of twisting my words just a bit. what i meant to imply was that it's one more reason for riding out the low points as opposed to giving up, and not a half-bad reward for putting up with someone's foibles for decades.

 

Why do you think most people are happily married or widowed when they die? That's an interesting concept, but again, a gross over generalization.

oh, now you're calling me gross, lol. seriously though, we're into semantics here, but i don't think it's generalizing to say "most" if i think that's true. i have trouble accepting as fact the notion that the majority of people are either 'spinsters' or happily divorced when they pass away. that just has not been my observation. again, i said correct me if i'm wrong, so perhaps you or your learned friend will enlighten me with some facts on the subject. (i like to think that i can face being mistaken.)

 

thanks again for smoothing my ruffled feathers.

[Dako]

Slightlybent is a type B.

Cool.

[CarnelianButterfly]

i have trouble accepting as fact the notion that the majority of people are either 'spinsters' or happily divorced when they pass away.

 

My Grandmother was VERY happily divorced and my Aunt has never married is enjoying the freedom.

[Daddy Bear]

My Grandmother was VERY happily divorced and my Aunt has never married is enjoying the freedom.

that 's good to hear, especially since i myself may be in your Grandma's group someday. i can cite examples on both sides of the coin. however, what i'm looking for in order to settle the question is a statistically significant demographic sampling.

[Lunabelle]

ready to be friends if you are.

 

Yes!

 

it's one more reason for riding out the low points as opposed to giving up, and not a half-bad reward for putting up with someone's foibles for decades.

 

Yes, you're right, I'm aware that this is a valid reason given by many.

 

The problem is, just what foibles are acceptable? How hurt can we be and recover from it? Why is it that something we tolerate for ages can suddenly become untolerable?

 

I also recognize that my responses to you are tinted, you might say, by my own (currently quite unsatisfactory) marriage.

 

The problem with this thought though, is that it may never come to fruition. You may decide to tolerate foibles only to be dumped years later. Also, there is some level of added stress on yourself even when you do agree to "tolerate" differences.

 

thanks again for smoothing my ruffled feathers.

 

Thanks for really listening. I appreciate that.

[Lunabelle]

what i'm looking for in order to settle the question is a statistically significant demographic sampling.

 

I don't have that.

 

But I can suggest an interesting book on the subject:

Grown Up Marriage by J. Voist

 

It's not scientific, in fact she prefaces her book with the comment that it was not scientific research based but simply her own experiences, her own opinions, and those of many of her (white, middle class) friends and their marriages. I know there's some quoted stats in there but can't recall them right now.

 

On the whole she's all for marriage and stickin' out the rough patches, but she presents all sides somewhat fairly. After I read it, I did have a lot stuff to think about, though, which is the point after all.

 

Also Betty Friedan's book on aging goes into this stuff at length and does indeed quote stats. My college friend says this is still seen as a pivotal book in her field.

[Daddy Bear]

The problem is, just what foibles are acceptable? How hurt can we be and recover from it? Why is it that something we tolerate for ages can suddenly become untolerable?

if i only knew! the mysteries of life, huh? i guess it's up to each individual to decide what his or her own breaking point is. which makes me suddenly realize that the overall stats are irelevant in any one person's case...

You may decide to tolerate foibles only to be dumped years later. Also, there is some level of added stress on yourself even when you do agree to "tolerate" differences.

yeah, that's true, but you know the old chestnut: "nothing ventured, nothing gained". i'd say you and i worked out our differences pretty well, right? so i guess there is at least some hope for the world.

 

thanks for the book recommendations; i've been meanin' to read me some Friedan.

[Lunabelle]

which makes me suddenly realize that the overall stats are irelevant in any one person's case....

 

Holy smokes it really floats my boat when people realize the point I'm making! LOL

 

 

i'd say you and i worked out our differences pretty well, right? so i guess there is at least some hope for the world.

 

I'm very glad we did. Frankly it has been one of the most rewarding exchanges I've had all day.

 

thanks for the book recommendations; i've been meanin' to read me some Friedan.

 

It's also interesting to read what others write about her. Her memoirs were interesting to me too. It's also interesting to compare her stuff to more contemporary feminist writings by Jennifer Baumgardner and Amy Richards. Or are you pulling my leg?

 

I can't say that I've ever met a man actually interested in reading Friedan, so I feel honored. Unless, of course you're pulling my leg.

[shyanne]

And if so... why do you think that is?

 

What can be done to change that?

 

Why do most men take their women for granted?

 

How hard is it to tell someone they are beautiful?

 

1 i don't know

 

2 nothing

 

3 would love to know

 

4 must be really, really hard for some

[Daddy Bear]

I can't say that I've ever met a man actually interested in reading Friedan, so I feel honored. Unless, of course you're pulling my leg. i was serious (not sure why i went with the backwoods patois that made that sound facetious). i consider myself a feminist--or, at the very least, a rabid anti-chauvinist.

[Dako]

i consider myself a feminist--or, at the very least, a rabid anti-chauvinist.

Welcome to the secret world of male feminists. Don't let the neo-MCPs hear you, or they'll get all Neanderthal on your butt. They might not realize free women are cool.

[CarnelianButterfly]

They might not realize free women are cool.

And we're better in bed.

[Lunabelle]

Speaking of better in bed...

 

Something I wanted to mention earlier but couldn't find the right spot for the comment.....all this stuff I read says that many people over age 65 still have active, satisfying sex lives. Ok, ok, I know, the visual is not the same as imagining Tommy & Pam, but really, it is something to think about. Good ol' Viagra must help too.

 

Sorry, this still feels out of place here, but it still did surprise me. Not sure why. I suppose until I got a bit older I never actually thought about the sex lives of the average senior citizen. Granted it's still at least 20 years ahead of me, but as far as I can tell getting older is gonna happen, the alternative ain't too hot (most days anyway).

[Lunabelle]

not sure why i went with the backwoods patois that made that sound facetious

 

LOL I was just trying to image John Wayne saying he was plannin' on readin' him sum Free Dan.

[Dako]

Lunabelle,

 

I was once a member of a group of about 14 people in their 80s who gathered weekly to discuss the arts, politics and world events. They became like family to me and my ex. All but two are gone. but many summoned us to bedside to say good bye. One couple had married after their spouses died and were constantly grabbing each other's buns and flirting with each other. It wasn't unsightly in the slightest, in fact I found it one of the most life-affirming things I've ever seen. She died, and he now has a girlfriend. He's almost 90 now, and a fine fellow.

[Lunabelle]

Thank you for sharing that Dako. In no way did I mean to imply that it was unsightly... And you're right it is quite the affirming sight. Gives us all hope doesn't it.

[Daddy Bear]

Thank you for sharing that Dako. In no way did I mean to imply that it was unsightly... And you're right it is quite the affirming sight. Gives us all hope doesn't it.

oh, you didn't care for my thoughts on elderly togetherness but you like the idea of sex at 90, i see how it is. you women are all alike! all you think about is one thing. lol

[nikolean_2]

I'm really sorry if things aren't going well, but things usually get better withen time. Obviouslly I'm too young to be married so I don't really have any expertise in this area, but I always keep a collection of quotes for people who need a boast of hope. So here are some quotes that I've found for you:

 

More marriages might survive if the parteners realized that sometimes the better comes after the worse.

-Doug Larson

 

A successful marriage requires falling in love many times, always with the same person.

-Mignon McLaughlin

 

Even if marriages are made in heaven, man has responsibility for its maintenance.

-James Dobson

 

Making marriage work is like running a farm. You have to start all over again each morning.

 

When things are bad, we take comfort in the thought that they could always be worse. And when they are, we find hope in the thought that things are so bad they have to get better.

-Malcom S. Forbes

 

I hope that this will give you hope that there are some happy marriages. But it takes teamwork to make it happen.

-Nikolean

[Lunabelle]

LOL Sbent.

I do so appreciate that both you and Dako make me laugh. I don't do as much of that as I'd like to.

[Lunabelle]

Making marriage work is like running a farm. You have to start all over again each morning.

 

...and you have to shovel a whole lotta'.........

[Beyondthesea]

I think most people are miserable in their marriages. Why? They marry someone they love but are not compatible with. You can love someone with all your heart and not have anything but issues if you have little compatibility and don't address it. Also, many people don't communicate properly so you just can't get along.

[DN]

My wife works in a nursing home for the elderly. Currently she works with dementia and Alzheimers patients but before that she worked with those that were still mentally acute. Naturally, there were more females than males. She told me that the competition for the attention of the males by some of the females could get quite intense.

 

Some people posting on this thread might benefit from having a look at this thread

[AntiLove_SuperStar]

My parents have been married for over 26 years.

 

Theyve never had any real problems as far as I know. My father still buys my mom flowers every week and calls her randomly from work, I know that much.

 

Theres hope then, I guess.