Could cheating be good? (PLEEEEASE BE OPEN-MINDED!)

[Mrocza]

I did NOT think I was being encouraging one little bit. Just trying to help to poster understand his urges. I was NOT supplying him with an excuse. If you think what I say about male urges is untrue then you don't know men - sorry. Brains and free will is all very well and good but we are human and make mistakes - in actions and in thought. Are you perfect?

 

I don't think she was attacking you but rather trying to point out to him that even these urges are a sad excuse to cheat on his girlfriend.

 

I'm sure all men have these "urges" when they see models or porn stars or whatever, but you don't act on these urges to satisfy selfish needs if you're in a relationship with someone who trusts you and has given themselves exclusively to you.

 

People make mistakes. But some bad choices can be avoided.

[Dannysgirl]

This guy is a self-absorbed and selfish foolish pig. It's really very easy to solve. Either end his relationship so he's free to mess around with whoever he pleases, or remain faithful to his girlfriend. His issues and reasons don't matter (even though they are paramount in his mind) - his unsuspecting girlfriend is the one's who do. For him to even suggest that he needs to get laid by other women behind his g/f's back is strong evidence that this poster lacks character and integrity.

 

Dump the girlfriend and play the field..

Or keep the girlfriend and be faithful...

 

There is no in between.

 

I wholeheartedly agree.

[busterkeaton]

OK I am a man and I have never ever cheated on any of the women I have ever been involved with. The only time I have ever had the urge to cheat was when Things in my last long term relationship went south and sex was like going to the dentist. Very painful and the whole time I was there in bed with her it sucked.

 

So to tell you the truth buster I don't agree with either of you guys. I think that if the OP wants to sow his oats then he should be man enough to break up with her and to go do what ever he wants.

 

Watch yourself buster your on thin ice with this last post borderline flaming.

 

I just didn't like feeling like I was being misunderstood. I apologize to belladonna for being brusque like that. This forum is a fantastic place and usually quite polite and flame/troll-free, I didn't mean to upset that. It has been a great help to me in the past as well. Sorry to all. (note to self: think first, hit enter later)

[OceanEyes]

^ I see what you're saying Roylt ... but at the same time I don't agree that there is only ONE, true, completely exclusive way to do things. There are many ways to do things.

 

Who knows Jonah, maybe your girlfriend has some crazy ideas of her own and is afraid to approach you. Maybe not. The point is that neither of you will know unless you discuss it.

[LiquidCherry]

I would never cheat on her after I take my wedding vows.

 

I don't believe you. Or at least I won't believe you if you go through with cheating on her. Why? It is bad enough if someone makes a mistake and cheats on their partner but sometimes one mistake can be forgiven. You are considering this as an actual option, a conscious decision to be made and if you do it it's because you've concluded that it is a correct choice. You will have justified infidelity. If you can justify it now there is nothing to keep you from doing the same thing once you are married. I've heard people say it helps improve their marriage/sex life. I've heard people say it keeps them from getting a divorce.

 

Married or not cheating is wrong. Do you think your girlfriend would like an open relationship with you? No, she wouldn't? Well, then you can't make cheating on her right. It's just not what she signed up for.

 

Condoms don't keep you safe from everything you know so no matter what you would be making a decision concerning your girlfriends health for her if you were to cheat. Do you think you have a right to do that? I don't. I'm sure she doesn't either.

[Jonah5678]

Wow... well first, thanks to everyone for the responses...

 

I can see this is a pretty hot button issue. I think I should clarify some things.

 

First off, I'm not looking for anyone here to "grant me permission" or anything like that. I'm not an idiot, I wouldn't make a major decision like this based simply on popular opinion. I was just trying to get the views of others for a delicate relationship-based conflict... isn't that what this forum is about?

 

Second, I'm honestly a little surprised that so many of you jumped to conclusions calling me a pig, selfish, pathetic, etc. I'm not looking for insults, I'm looking for insight and advice. Instead of associating me with all of the cheating jerks you've heard about / dealt personally with, just give me your experience and how it relates. You might be surprised, but I would consider myself to be a nice, quiet, reserved kind of guy. I'm definitely not going to start any flame wars, but please: if you're just going to attack me based on the fact that I hypothetically considered an unorthodox option when you don't even know me, move to the next thread. I'm looking for honest opinions (whether you agree or disagree), not lectures. I really do appreciate everyone who responded without being judgmental.

 

Third, several people pointed out that there must be some other problem in our relationship for me to be having these thoughts. To be perfectly honest, there aren't any. We love each other incredibly.

 

Finally, I have some food for thought, especially for those who feel that I'm your stereotypical heart-breaking male pig. Have you never lied to someone you loved to protect them? Just back off your preconceived notions for a second and think about that. Have you never lied to your parents about your social or sexual habits, because you know they would be irrationally hurt or disappointed? Have you never lied to a young child about what a sexual innuendo that they saw on television or in a movie means? Ladies, have you never lied to your boyfriend about a guy that's hit on you, whether it's a stranger at a bar or an ex-boyfriend? Whether he simply bought you a drink, gave you his number, or kissed you before you could stop him? Have you never told any of your boyfriends that you've never had feelings for another man, that his penis is the largest you've ever seen, all to the contrary? Can you all honestly say that there are no "little secrets" that you keep from your boyfriends to prevent an unneeded fight? I understand there's a large distance between a little crush and having sex, but please just think of the principle, and how it might relate. That's all I ask.

 

 

P.S. What exactly is your definition of "flaming"? Buster asking someone if she's perfect is borderline flaming, but you agree with someone calling me a selfish, foolish pig? I'm just curious as to where the line is drawn...

[Mrocza]

I think, once again trying to justify your question/situation by comparing to others is entirely wrong. Everyone has secrets, every once in a while we all tell white lies. I think there is a substantial difference between excluding information about an ex hitting on you to not upset your S/O to the fact that you've commited adultery behind their back to get it out of your system and keep it quiet not to hurt her.

 

It's not a matter of lying to protect or make sure you don't hurt someone, it's the conscious choice of doing something that will severely devastate a person and then keeping it a secret because you don't want to take the heat.

[RayKay]

I think, once again trying to justify your question/situation by comparing to others is entirely wrong. Everyone has secrets, every once in a while we all tell white lies. I think there is a substantial difference between excluding information about an ex hitting on you to not upset your S/O to the fact that you've commited adultery behind their back to get it out of your system and keep it quiet not to hurt her.

 

It's not a matter of lying to protect or make sure you don't hurt someone, it's the conscious choice of doing something that will severely devastate a person and then keeping it a secret because you don't want to take the heat.

 

Exactly. And for the record, no, if someone hits on me or sexually assaults me in the bar, or whatever, I do not hide it from my partner.

 

Personally if I am considering cheating or crushing on others, it's a good sign to me it's time to pack up and move on, or go to counselling together.

 

There is a massive difference between not sharing your sexual lifestyle with your parents, and consciously making the choice to proceed to cheat on your partner.

 

Bottom line in any case, is what WE think does not matter, because it is about what your GIRLFRIEND believes. If you feel so confident that there is nothing to it....then why don't you talk to her about it.

 

Because doing so without talking to her is an absolutely awful thing to do to someone. It's not even just a "white lie", it's a intent to hurt and destroy someone emotionally and very possibly physically. The lying is not to protect HER, but to protect your own butt. Because nothing good comes out of lying to her about it and not letting her make the decision to continue or not with the relationship. She would be putting herself in harms way every time she was with you, and not even know it.

[Jonah5678]

Fairie, but isn't the lie still there? How can one lie be better than another?

[Itsok]

I do understand what you are saying Jonah. However, you have to be principled enough to realize that this is a much bigger issue than a 'white lie' over something little.

 

Ok, let's say that you go out and have sex with some woman...

 

Do you really think that you would ever stop? Do you really think your gf wouldn't know what is going on or has gone on eventually? Do you think it's fair to her, having been completely faithful to you? Do you not realize that all trust in the relationship would be gone from then on?

 

I know you think if you go out and have sex with some other woman that your problems will be solved and you'll be ready to settle down. That is not the case.

 

You will be highly attracted to this new woman and continue on an affair. Hormones fly at first, just like they did with your current girl, remember? That always fades, period.

 

If you want immediate pleasures, if you want to have sex with other women, then definitely break up with your current girlfriend. It seems she has been waiting much too long for you as it is, and I am TRULY not trying to be rude in saying that you are too immature to have a committed relationship at this point.

 

That's not your fault, and there's nothing you can do. You will have this urge until you fill it since it is so important to you. Unfortunately, the best thing to do is break up with your current girlfriend and have a few girls who KNOW what you are doing and are still willing to share you. Then be safe about it...and know that the emotional attachment you will eventually seek will not be fulfilled by these women who want the same as you: a no-strings attached sexual relationship.

[hosswhispra]

Jonah,

 

I think that one solution to your situation would to be honest with your girlfriend. Just let her know that you want to experience other women. If she's okay with it, great. Then if she is not, she'll let you know. Then you can proceed from there. It's possible that she may want to experience other men while you are experiencing other women.

 

Who knows, maybe you are meant to be with her; or maybe you are not meant for each other.

 

Honesty is always the best policy. If you experience other women behind her back and she finds out about it, ALL trust will be gone. Without trust there is NOTHING.

 

Also be prepared for her to let go of you totally. Are you prepared to lose her? This is what you must ask yourself. From a women's point of view, if my boyfriend told me he wanted to go out and experience other women--I'd let go of him...I'd do the same if I found out if he was cheating on me behind my back...Trust is everything and without it, there's nothing.

 

Take a long time on this one to think and do some big time soul searching.

 

good luck,

hosswhispra

[Mrocza]

Perhaps.

 

But there is nothing wrong with not disclosing information about the past from someone. I personally don't talk about past relationships with my current boyfriend and I don't care to know about his either.

 

Trying to justify your actions as being "just another lie" is pointless. What I did or said before my boyfriend has nothing to do with us at hand. I think that is the difference.

 

If you're going to consciously do something you know won't fly and THEN lie about it...

 

Think about it.

[coooolsome]

I had those feelings once. I was in college and wondered what it would be like to be with another girl. I even had a girl I wanted to date but you know what, I realized that what I had was 100x better. Think about it this way, would you be able to give up your girl 100%, as in, you break up and there is no going back, to go for this? You will always have these thoughts, everyone does, but it all comes down to how you feel about your girlfriend.

 

Sometimes we dont realize what we have until we lose it.

 

Oh and cheating is never right. How would you feel if she did it to you?

[Itsok]

Sometimes we dont realize what we have until we lose it.

 

Very well said.

[Jonah5678]

Hmm, good points everyone...

 

RayKay & Hosswhispra, I doubt very much that my g/f would be cool with the idea... how would one even bring that idea up? You saw how sensitive people on this thread got after hearing the idea of cheating, and they have no idea who I am, let alone telling the love of my life something like that.

 

Coooolsome, were you with many girls before your g/f? If not, how do you manage to cope with human nature vs. love? I understand the wonderful benefits of love, but do you ever feel that you're being untrue to yourself?

 

Itsok, you are right; perhaps I am too immature. I just don't know how to deal with the conflicting views. Believe me, it's hard to describe, but I don't think I actually & consciously want to be with other girls... it's simply nature calling out. When I think of my g/f's smile, my entire body feels warm. Then, a minute later, some girl with her cleavage hanging out gives me a suggestive look, and the "other brain" starts flooding the real one with these images of what I'm missing out on. If there was a pill that would remove all of these feelings for the rest of my life, I'd down the entire bottle.

[shes2smart]

I doubt very much that my g/f would be cool with the idea... how would one even bring that idea up?

 

If you can't discuss your needs within a relationship, how do you expect to get them met in a way that is fair and respectful to both partners?

 

I've been involved in the BDSM lifestyle for about 8 years now, and one of the things that always comes up at the various social/support groups I've been involved in is the necessity for clear, direct, honest communication with one's partner(s) and/or potential partners about one's expectations/desires/fantasies/limits and boundaries. With the small bit I know about the swinging and polyamory folks, I understand this is a recurring theme with them, too.

 

In situations where there has been clear, direct and honest communication, even if things go wrong there are generally no long-lasting hard feelings and everyone can usually get a good laugh out of their foibles.

 

Invariably, in situations where there hasn't been clear, direct and honest communication there are hurt feelings, break-ups, drama and a lot of bad blood that usually sticks around for a very long while.

 

Without going into too many details, let's just say that during the course of my relationship and marriage with my husband, we've participated in several situations that I never in a million years would've thought would be ok with me. They wouldn't have been ok with me in any other relationship I've been in, but that's because my husband and I worked very hard at clear, direct and honest communication about our individual needs, wants, and so forth. That meant putting aside our insecurities, fears, jealousy and the like and really listening to what the other had to say. So, in this relationship those situations were ok...some were so ok as to be repeatable.

 

Maybe I've gotten spoiled with him, but I am having a really hard time wrapping my mind around the concept that you don't want to or feel you can't talk to your partner about this. It would seem to me that she would be the one person you would most want to talk to about this.

[theantibarbie23]

We love each other incredibly.

 

Finally, I have some food for thought, especially for those who feel that I'm your stereotypical heart-breaking male pig. Have you never lied to someone you loved to protect them?

If you cheat on someone you aren't lying to protect THEM you are lying to protect YOURSELF. There is a big difference between the two. You can rationalize this all you like it doesn't make cheating or chancing seriously harming someone you say you love, any less deplorable or selfish. Cheating in and of itself is about as selfish of a behavior as you can get.

 

As for my personal experiences with cheating, I can honestly say I've never cheated or been cheated on (to my knowledge). However my dad cheated on my mom and while she was pregnant he went into the hospital he found out he had full blown aids so he confessed everything. It basically destroyed my entire family. My father never fully recovered from his trip to the hospital and had to stop working and lived the rest of the five years of his life in a sick bed. We lost everything. Our home, our car, everything.

 

I remember waiting for my mom's test results to come back and so we'd know if we were going to become orphans or not. I remember feeling sick and helpless watching my mother's depression consume the person she had once been. I remember having to worry about where we were going to live and how we were going to eat. When my father took a turn for the worst, I had to stop going to school in order to help take care of him and my siblings while my mother worked like a dog trying to support everyone when she too has serious health complications.

 

He died ten years ago and my mother never forgave him for what he put us all through and has never gotten over the betrayal. She's been in and out of therepy but it really hasn't helped her depression at all. When men hit on her she instantly rejects them. She's told me she's not interested in having a relationship or dating. I honestly don't think she will ever trust another man again.

 

When you cheat on someone you take the risk of destroying the person they once were and sometimes no amount of I'm sorrys or I love yous can bring them back.

[azul]

I read his thread...That really sucks :S

I cry like crazy after reading this post, I would like my husband to read it, after his affair he realize that I'm the love of his life, that he can't live with out me, he is lcky that I'm still here after all the agony that his affair brougth to me.

[Jonah5678]

Wow... that's quite a story, antibarbie... I'm really sorry about your hardships.

 

This somewhat relates to what I'm saying. Do you think if I have these feelings in me now, that I should try to purge them before I am married and have kids, to possibly prevent a situation like yours?

[spunkykatt]

Lie to someone you love to protect them....thats what people say to justify doing something they KNOW is wrong and dont want to have to own up to it and deal with the guilt. I have been lied to by my bf, and his excuse was that he "wanted to protect my feelings" I say bullcrap. When you lie that only cause her to not believe you or trust you. Once trust is gone believe me its hard to EVER get it back...just ask my bf.

[theantibarbie23]

This somewhat relates to what I'm saying. Do you think if I have these feelings in me now, that I should try to purge them before I am married and have kids, to possibly prevent a situation like yours?

 

I think you need to ethier learn how to deal with these feelings in a constructive manner or end things before running off to have sex with other women. A marriage certificate doesn't mean that suddenly now that there is a ring, the real relationship starts. You already made a commitment to this woman, ring or no ring. Just because you are not married doesn't mean cheating on her would hurt her any less nor does it mean the commitment you made to be faithful to her is any less important to honor.

 

My friend's brother hung himself after he found out his girlfriend cheated on him. Cheating affects people in different ways and degrees. You never really know how someone will take that kind of news. Do you really think you'd be able to live with yourself if your actions caused her that kind of pain? It's not something you can take back once it happens.

 

The way I see it a person who's really in love wouldn't do anything to dishonor, betray, or humilate their partner. What you are contemplating would do all that and more. If you think you need space to see what other woman are like - do the right thing. It may not be easy, but doing the right thing seldom is. If she's been a good woman to you, don't disrespect her by running around behind her back. Let her go.

[fishrrshortae]

"He satisfies me sexually, but right now, why should I settle for one guy when I get hit on by other really attractive men? I can satisfy my sexual needs without telling him the truth.. why should I, when I can solve my problem on my own? Telling him the truth would only hurt him. Besides, I wouldn't cheat on him after we vow to spend our lives together. Until that time comes, I can use him for stability while I have my fun. I just hope that the condom doesn't break."

[tarakan]

Jonah5678, thank you for the thread, it does raise an interesting question.

 

What I noticed, browsing through the posts in this thread is that the vast majority of them are made by females. Or males, who "never cheated in their lifetime". I am not saying that these opinions are not valuable, my point is that, perhaps, females and nevercheaters do not have the required expertise to advise, comprehensively, on the issue.

 

Indeed, many, many people called names and the author even has to protect himself. Why did they do it? Isn't it well known that name-calling has NEVER changed anobody for the best? I know why. Those who called names (pig, selfish etc.) feel very STRONGLY about the issue but, unfortunately, cannot fully understand the author, feel what he feels (the expertise I am talking about) , they are from the different world, they just function differently.

 

Let me give you a stupid example. About a 100 years ago, there was a greeting custom on one isolated island in the pacific: people rub ther noses against each other when meet. Try explaining those people that hand-shake is also good - you will be sent to hell in an instant, and I can't blame them - they just function differently from us.

 

However, whatever cultural, racial or sociological subgroup we come from we all want to make our life better.

 

The above said, I would be interested in opinions of members who WERE cheating before or even cheat now and what they did about that and what their conscious decision was. Basically people who are ahead of Jonah5678 (and me for that matter) on the time scale.

 

Jonah5678, I am in a similar position, I just have, perhaps, more complicated case. The way it looks to me now is that we are not ready for the relationship. I agree, that the desire being unchecked and unattended might screw everything in the future (after marriage). Nobody wants to get in situations like antibarbie described (I am very sorry, antibarbie). Yes, I know, you love each other so much and it seems like perfect match. It would be a shame to loose it, loosing it looks like killing something really good in the world. However, just as an example, suppose you had HIV. Would you cheat on your gf by not telling her about your condition? There are chances she wouldn't get infected. You love each other so much, you are great with each other....Well, I think you will tell her. After serious thinking, I think being a cheater is like having HIV, something inside you you might not like, something people might not notice right away, something you are hated for sometimes (hehe) but something which requires you to be strong and tell about it to your loved ones.

 

Let me know what you think.

[fur_ever21]

I say go for it........YES it was good for me

[OceanEyes]

Hey again Jonah,

 

I've read through this entire post now, and can see that you are facing a fair bit of judgement and resistance. I think the main reason for that, is that the people replying are relating directly to how they would feelif placed in your girlfriend's situation. Believe me, there are very, VERY few people out there who like the idea of being cheated on. It's just not a nice feeling at all. I know you must understand that, as you said yourself, you're not an idiot.

 

I'm going to relate to myself, and my own life, and some of the mistakes that I've made. I've cheated in the past, and there have not been happy outcomes. I will make no excuses for myself either. Although there were reasons I did it, looking back now I really understand how much pain, self-doubt, and anger that I caused in the men that I've hurt in the past.

 

Ask anyone who has been cheated on what it felt like when they found out, and how hard it was for the weeks and MONTHS that followed. It can screw up your life for a very long time to learn that the one person you love, trust, and have given years of your life to, has lied, cheated, and taken you for granted so incredibly, and for what? Try explaining what you're explaining right now, and that you didn't tell her because you were "protecting her while you got it out of your system". It won't cushion the blow, if this woman really cares for you.

 

If "nature is calling out", then answer it. If you're really this tempted to explore, to sample life a lot more before you settle down, then what's going to stop you when opportunities present themselves? My guess is that you already have one, if not more, opportunities that you would like to explore. And you know what? That's fine, but be a man first and recognize that you can't have the best of both worlds. You can't honestly believe that you'll get away with screwing around when you want, then taking all the love and affection from your girlfriend when needed? You KNOW that's sketchy.

 

Ask yourself one big question: How would you feel, if tomorrow, you found out that your girlfriend had been cheating on you with random men for the past year?