Going home, should she join me?

[HellFrost666]

Another conversation in the abuse forum got me wanting to post this... It get's complicated, be forwarned...

 

Next January I am going back home for my mother's 50th birthday. (I'm from Norway, lived in the US for almost 10 years now). In almost 10 years I've gone back twice. It's expensive and it's hard to get time off work.

 

I want my lady to come with me, and my family wants her to come with me because they want to meet her, but I'm afraid it may be too soon to ask her.

 

Our relationship has been very turbulent. She is married (but in the process of a divorce and doesn't live with her husband). My family knows this. I have been 'seeing' her for about a two months now. Really though, the relationship is not official. It's not official because on paper she is still married. I have a feeling the whole thing will change before I go back home. I'm just afraid after two months of not a normal relationship she might think I am moving way too fast.

 

But, my mom can be evil. I love her to death, but when I told her my lady may not come with me she asked a lot of questions that seemed ridiculous to me. "Why, doesn't she want to see us?" "Can she not afford a ticket?""Can you not afford to buy her a ticket?" on and on. It's like if she doesn't come with me she is striking out with my family and it's not even her fault.

 

The timing here is just awful. If she doesn't come with me my mom will be really upset. My lady hasn't pressured me to take her in any way. She knows I'm going, but she hasn't asked to come with me.

 

I feel like if she's coming with me the decision has to be made soon. For one, so all the plans can be made (She needs to get time off work, get a passport, etc) and for two, to get my mom off my back about it.

[DN]

The situation is too new and too complicated for her to meet your family - especially in a different country among total strangers. She hardly knows you - let alone anybody else over there.

 

Tell your Mom it is too soon, that it is nothing personal and that she will have to wait until things are more settled. This is your life not your Mom's - don't allow her to guilt you into doing something not in your best interests.

[HellFrost666]

Yea, my mom uses guilt to her advantage way too much. She told me when we talked "Oh it might be another three years before you come home again so she should come here now while she has the chance..." and then she wants to start about how I don't come home often enough and that she feels neglected. Not once has any member of my family mentioned coming to the states to see me.

 

Even though I don't go home much I still keep in very regular contact with them. I talk to my sister four or five times a week online. I talk to my two brothers and my cousin pretty often too. Of coarse my mom is upset that I do this online instead of calling. I don't think she understands how expensive those calls can be.

 

On top of that, when I get over there, (alone or with my lady), I know she will try to convince me to move back. She does this every time I go. If I wanted to move back, I would have by now. I have my dream job here. I'm happier here then I ever was back home. Apparently that doesn't matter to Mom.

[DN]

Well, I was in your position as well - I emigrated to Canada from England. My mother, who was also somewhat problematical, was somewhat understanding.

 

The main thing is not to give in to the guilt. Be pleasant and understanding but stand your ground. Don't forget that, beneath it all, she loves and misses you, so it's not all bad. Just bear with her but don't give in.

[HellFrost666]

This woman is a guilt trip master... The government could use her to negotiate peace treaties. So far I have done well with not giving in. (Obviously, had I given in I'd be living there now.) But this situation is a little different because I really do want to take her with me, and my Mom acting the way she does seems to fuel the fire a lot.

 

Just so it's clear, my reasons against taking her are nothing against her. I love her and hope she comes back home with me one day, my reasons are because it's a bad time for her.

[Shadows Light]

HellFrost...Wow... this is a big step. And not knowing anything about your culture in NORWAY. I only have my field of experience to pull from and culture. Its a 50/50 proposition.

 

First your mother. Mom loves you. You are her baby boy. No matter how grown you are or where you are... you will always be her baby boy.

Kinda like Oedipus Complex... and maybe thats the wrong term to use. But in my culture.. daughters are a joy to a mother. They say that a daughter is worth two sons. However, to have a SON. OMG.. is the prize of all prizes. Fathers want them because they carry on the family name and ensure that the liniage lives on. Mothers revere them because it means they've done their duty by the family by producing a son. But more... they raise the sons to be what they would have wanted of a husband. And then they hold them close. To the point that no woman is ever good enough. They will find fault where there is no fault. And the classic INLAW rivalry starts between two women in competition for a mans love and heart. From my observation, this takes place here in the states as well.. but is much more firmly entrenched in cultures where PATRIARCHY RULES with greater strength. Women in the US enjoy many more freedoms and have more opportunities for equality.

 

Your mother.. the master manipulator, loves you very much. And she wants to be near you. You already know that she is going to try to talk you into coming back home. LOL. I've seen men go back to the old country where mama was supposedly on her deathbed... and miraculous recoveries happen as soon as the beloved sons foot hits his motherland soil. Amazing. She loves you. Nothing sinister about that... its just the way it is...and always will be. Her views, her morals and values are set in stone. There is not going to be anyway you will change her way of thinking. If Norway was/is good enough for her.. she can't possibly understand that you've found a better way of life somewhere else. And truly... you are a very brave man. Knowing from my parents and others who've left their family, friends, language, culture, and all they have known to find a better ecconomic existence... its a tough tough choice. Its no wonder we are known as the home of the free and the BRAVE. Mom is not going to change. Your best bet is to stick to your guns and plant your feet firmly, drop roots and do not rattle you. Tell your mother you love her. Treat her with respect. And keep telling her that you love her. Standing your ground...she'll see that she did a good job in raising you to manhood. That you are your own man. Any indecions, wavering or waffling on your part.. and if she see's the crackle in that armor.. she'll think her job is not done, and she will persist. LOL.

 

The Lady Love... hmmm well..I'll tell you. I've taken someone to overseas who didn't speak the language and to whom it was a culture shock. It was the most exciting trip of thier lives. But it was also so very difficult for them. Meeting my entire family and dealing with the cultural differences. You have an added nuance... its not a friend you are taking home, but a prospective mate. She will be under the microscope. Make no mistake about it. Mom is already asking a million questions and making assumptions without even meeting her. What do you think will happen with a face to face???? ohhh darlin.. these two ships should not meet until your lady has her feet planted firmly on the ground and she can defend her castle. Your lady love has many issues she's working on. She's coming out of an abusive relationship... the two of you are for all intense and purposes feeling each other up on this issue. Wasn't a few short months ago you were concerned about her fear factor. Fear of you?? Fear that it will happen again?? Your lady does not have the confidence to stand up to, how did you put it.. "the master manipulator.. who can run negotiations for NATO"... LOL ( Your descriptors of your mother were GREAT... I think she was my mother-in-law at one time.. LOL).

 

Sooo how do you handle these two ships. Well... its a 50/50 proposition. You can talk to your lady love and see how she feels about it. If she wants to go .. then forwarned is being forarmed. She'd be better prepared. Do you even know if she'd want to come??? You're relationship is so young and tender. And the situation is... tenuous. You are worryig about it.. and you said yourself, it can change on a dime.

 

Tell you what. If I were you... I'd talk to Lady Love. And tell her what mom is like. And tell her that you feel that it might be too heavy of a trip for her. Explain your fears and Explain to her that if she went.. you would want it to be under the best of circumstances. And given the divorce and the situation as it lay right now.. it may not be a good situation for her, and you sooo do not want to take the chance and lose her.

 

To mom.. LOL. White lie?? Tell her she can't get time off of work. Downsizing within corporations is making planning on vacation time very difficult. Tell her that Lady Love is worried about rocking the boat and losing her job. Finding employment these days is difficult. Its not exactly the truth..but its not an outright lie either. Planning extended vacations is precarious for many reasons. And finding employment is like finding a needle in the haystack. Hey.. its not as if Lady love doesn't want to come, she's just being responsible. And she needs her job right now since she is her own sole support. If you show mom that Lady Love is responsible Lady Love will win points. Mom wants a woman for you that is responsible. Mom wants a woman for you that is not going to sponge off of her precious little boy..but will be a helpmate.. and a partner. Express to your mother that Lady Love is very disapointed about not being able to come right now, but promises she'll come with you as soon as the ecconomy stablizes. AGAIN.. not a total out right .. fib.

 

Are you being a manipulator in this situation.. HECK YEAH.. you're out witting a master chess player. And its called self preservation. You keep Mama happy. You keep Lady Love happy.. .and you know what??? YOu will by far be the HAPPIEST of all of them. Nothing worse than being a guy caught in the cross fire of two women. Let Lady Love gather her strength and get her feet under her. You'll be ducking and bunkering in soon enough.

 

And in the meantime... why don't you plan a mini-vacation with your lady love. Romance the heck out of her. Take her somewhere close to home. A bed-n-breakfast... A cabin somewhere just for the two of you. A weekend trip to Vegas. A trip to Niagra Falls. Somewhere... anywhere.. doens't have to be tres' expensive. Its being alone and spending time together thats important.

 

BTW.. hows the psyche going with LL??? Is she still fearful of you?? Its going to take a long time to get this out of her system... or for that fear to lesson. If ever. It lessons with time...but just like war torn soldiers, flashbacks will happen from time to time. I speak from experience. I carry with me deep scars. And although my relatioship with my X was VERBAL and Emotional abuse. The Phsysical, verbal & emotional abuse from the past came to the forefront... with every attack. When my X would blow up... I'd duck (litterally) for cover. The first time it happened it freaked him out. He said he'd never hit me. But the words didn't help when a Crystal Party's ensued and objects went flying past my head. The old scars.. were reopened. And deeper scars formed. And much like your Lady Love... I think I have a difficult time trusting. My only defence for myself is that I'm cognizant of the fact... and I "WILL" not allow it to happen again. I'm at an age and stage in my life that I won't put up with anyones baggage anymore. Have just spent the last year unpacking my own baggage..(steamer trunks)... and now I'm all for traveling light. Just a weekend bag. LOL. Give her time on this front. There is nothing you can do differently.. except try to understand and be there for her.

 

Hope that this helped. Thanks for the PM and the compliment. I may be wrong... but if you ask for my two cents. I try to give you your moneys worth and then some. Let me know what you descide to do.

[HellFrost666]

I'm just a little tipsy right now, sorry for any typos...

 

I know my Mom's heart is in the right place, it's just frusterating. I think she is like this with my sister and I because we are the oldest. I remember on September 11th my mom called me and she was in hiserics. Even though I don't live near anywhere that was hit she was just bewildered. She really started pressing the issue then.

 

I have thought about the culture shock if my lady comes with me. My family is obviously not considering that she doesn't even speak the language. They would probably sit there right in front of her and pick her apart without her even knowing it (especially my mom, sad to say.) I don't want to scare her off. My mom has gone as far as to ask me "What kind of terrible wife was she that her husband is divorcing her?" I told her it was really the oposite, but she won't listen. I know she will be "Under the microscope" and criticised to no end. This is wjere tje conflict on interest come in, because I don't want to put her though all that, but on the ohter hand I really don't want to go without her. Would she want to go? If I invited her I know she would want to go, but I'm sure she would also think about some of these things herself. She has always wanted to go to Europe, but could never afford it. Yes, this relationship could change before then, and I'm sure it will. I don't mean that in a bad way. She would have to screw up pretty bad to drive me away.

 

I know if I go without her I'll think about her the whole time I'm there. I'll be gone for two weeks and all I'll want to do is come back to the US so I can see her again.

 

I am willing to explain to her what my mom is like, I just don't know how to do it in a way that won't scare her. Her husband's mom was really mean to her. Any suggestions?

 

I could tell my mom she can't get time off work. That may actually end up being the truth, her job is fickle like that. It is hard finding a decent job.

 

You suggested taking my lady somewhere closer. It's so funny you said that. My group of friends always goes camping on labor day weekend, and she is coming with us. My roomate actually invited her before I got the chance to. I was going to say something later, but I think he thought I already asked her. It was pretty funny. He was telling her "We won't make you gut any fish or anything. We don't really do much on our camping trips." She said "define not much?" He said "Well after the goat sacrifice and the Bacchunalian orgy we just drink and act stupid all weekend." She got a kick out of that.

 

Ys, this weekend she will see me in all my drunkeness. She has been around me while I'm drinking, but she's never been around while I'm drinking heavy. I stuck a note in her cd case that said "I would like to apologize in advance for my behavior on the evenings of and wrote in the three days we will be gone. She got a kick out of that too. I love making her laugh.

 

No, it won't be just me and her alone, but she is coming with us this weekend. I'm pretty excited about that.

 

You asked if she's still fearful of me. Right now I think she is a little fearful of everyone. I just do all I can to show her I won't ever be violent. That's all I can do. I think she is starting to trust me a little more. I know it will take time.

[Shadows Light]

There is no way you will make her feel comfortable without mom tearing into her. Your lady love will know. Women have this universal silent code... no need for words. I think I know EXACTLY where you are coming from in every respect. The language barrier and culture shock is difficult enough without the drama of your mom and your lady loves history added into the background.

 

My mom has gone as far as to ask me "What kind of terrible wife was she that her husband is divorcing her?"

Typical. LOL. You see in my culture it is the same thing. No matter which party files for divorce...its got to be the Womans fault. We weren't good enough. And I am being oustrasized from my community. I'm a fallen women. I should have a scarlet letter tattooed to my forhead. I am deficient and lacking in someway shape or form. And NO... there is no way to change that mind-set. Its ingrained into their psyches. It must be so. Its all they know. Its what they've been taught. Soooo.... think of how bad this would make your lady love feel. Even though she was rough-housed and abused. A teeny tiny part of her inside says.."what did I do wrong. Where could I have done differently. Maybe if I were more like this.. or maybe if I were more like that." And if her husband was a cheater.. its a double whammy... "why was I not woman enough." "was I that bad of a woman?? That bad of a wife.".... no matter what her logical brain is telling her.. deep down. She questions herself and she has GUILT.

 

Soooo A visit with MOM is not going to help darlin.

 

Look. Its you who are going to miss her terribly. Is 2 weeks such a bad bad thing???? no... its not so very long. And absense makes the heart grow fonder. Use the time before you pending vacation to see mom.. use that time to Romance her, love her.. and just make it as good as you can. Then while you are gone.. she'll have wonderful memories to draw upon and to dream on.. while she waits for you to get home. And yes.. do plan on more trips and times alone. The camping trip with friends is great. But you need time to yourselves.

 

Start planning on romantic ideas. Make everyday Valentines day. Make everyday a holiday...after all .. its a holiday somewhere around the world. I bet you can have lots more fun... planning on how to romance her.and expend your energy that way..than worrying about what mom is going to say.

 

And let me tell you something. Your mother's heart is in the right place. We all want the BEST.. the very BEST for our kids. But ultimately it is your life.. to choose how and with whom you will spend it. Love your mother and respect her. But dance away from letting her bully you into questions about your lady love. I think its wonderful that you defend her... but you shouldn't have to. Its unfortunate that you've revealed too much information to the family at this point. Somethings they just don't need to know. And now..whats done is done. No going back now. Soooo from here on out... plant your feet into the ground and drop root. Don't let mom sway you. Her ideal mate for you.. is a Norwegion Girl..and her ideal place of residence for you is near home. Prefereably next door to her... if not in the same house. LOL. Just be firm with her.... and show her that her little bird has grown wings, has flown from the nest, and can fend for himself. She'll respect you a lot more if you stand up to her. Guarenteed. She will balk at it at first...but after a while. I'm sure she'll beam with pride...patting herself on the back because she raised a GOOD MAN.

 

Your story sounds soooo familiar... are you sure we weren't married and your mother wasn't my MIL for a while???????

 

 

 

[HellFrost666]

So I'm back from spending three days in the woods with her. Things went well, really well.

 

I had a long talk with her Friday night about all this. I think at first she thought I was about to drop some bomb on her. I told her there was a decision I was having a hard time making and right away she said "Oh no." I told her how my Mom is and about all the questions my Mom has asked me about her, etc. I basically told her all the things I posted on here already about this. In the end I left the decision up to her. Is this a cop out? Maybe... But I don't know what else to do.

[DN]

It kind of is a cop-out. Just make sure you let her know very clearly that you will respect whatever decision she comes to and will not blame her in any way if she decides not to go. Otherwise, you have put her between a rock and a hard place.

 

And if she decides not to go - do not tell your mother it was her decision. That would also be unfair - you have to bear the burden of that.

[HellFrost666]

Oh trust me, I wouldn't tell my Mom anything to ruffle her feathers more then they already are. My lady was very understanding and sympathetic about my situation. Her mom can be the same way.

 

I did tell her I would understand her decision either way. Before she decides anythin she has to see if it's even possible to come with me, and then we will figure things out from there.

 

Shadow, I was wanting to ask you what you meant by this:

 

"She's coming out of an abusive relationship... the two of you are for all intense and purposes feeling each other up on this issue."

 

Maybe I'm just having a dumb moment or something, but I don't understand that...

 

Thank you for saying I am brave.

[Shadows Light]

"She's coming out of an abusive relationship... the two of you are for all intense and purposes feeling each other up on this issue."

 

You know... I did a quick read back and couldn't find it... but from what I've read from your other posts. I do recall that her husband was abusive to her. And I think you wrote that she's a little gun shy ... has a little bit of fear. And you didn't know how to deal with it or convince her that you were different. I think thats what I may have been referring to. It will take patience and time. You both are feeling each other up now and checking to see where the boundaries are. Testing the water slowly. Its a normal progression in a new relationship. Unforutunately...when you've been in an abusive relationship... you are bound to bring baggage into your new relationship. She'll be a little more reserved in certain situations and you'll just be more sensitive to her and trying not to step on her toes. But TIME is the healer. Thats the only thing that you can rely on and do.

 

Glad you had a good camping experience!!! Hope you plan more small trips with your lady.

 

And yeah... you did take the easy way out with letting her make the decision. The sexiness of traveling abroad vs an overprotective mama... hmmmmmm... LOL. Well, its a lesson for her. Just be intuned to her needs. If she's not traveled abroad or used to the customs in your hometown.. it will overwhelm her. The language shift alone will overwhelm her. Plan or try to plan alone time with her... just the two of you to balance out the other stuff.

[HellFrost666]

I just figured it should be her decision as much as mine. In the end it would have to be her decision. I can ask her, but she won't go if she doesn't want to. I know I took the easy way out, I just didn't want to debate anymore with myself without seeing how she feels about it.

 

Yes, the camping trip was great. I would go into more detail, but I don't want to bore anyone with all kinds of details.

 

I am glad she gets along with all my friends. They all like her. I've seen every one of my friends start dating someone who can't stand us, or we can't stand her. It never ends well.

[HellFrost666]

Just had another thought about this...

 

I was talking to my sister last night and she told me something my Mom said that was a little funny. My mom told my sister "Maybe now that he found a girlfriend he'll finally cut his hair."

 

My Mom hates my long hair. She seems to think I grew it long to attract women, but I didn't. Maybe she is expecting me to change now for some reason. I don't know what she could have meant by that.

[Shadows Light]

Grin! Keep the hair but keep it neat. I think I'm probably one of the few women in the western hemisphere that likes long hair on a guy. Just something sexy about it. But it has to be neat. Don't go in for the dread locks... not my style.

 

Moms will be moms. LOL. 8)

[HellFrost666]

Oh I'm not cutting it. I've had long hair for years. And yea, my mom hates it, but my girlfriend loves it. I jus thad to laugh when my sister told me that. Maybe my mom thinks I'm dating someone like her who will change all the things she never could.

 

One more thing... I wouldn't call my mom overprotective. She just worries too mcuh.

[HellFrost666]

A minor update...

 

My cousin (the only member of my family other then myself who speaks English) has started talking to my grilfriend online. They hit it off really well too.

 

This is a good thing, but my cousin is telling my girlfriend all these embarrassing stories about me from when I was younger. And she is also begging my girlfriend to come with me.

 

Well, now if she decides to come there will be someone she can talk to other then just me. (Not that I mind talking to her.) My cousin is already telling my gf "Oh, I HAVE to take you here, and I have to show you this place, and I have to take you there, etc." Last night she told her "If he doesn't treat you good I'll come to America and beat his *ss!"

 

I'm glad she's hitting it off with one member of my family.